A Q&A session with Zelda: Phantom Hourglass producer Eiji Aonuma and Nintendo legend Shigeru Miyamoto had the designers talking about keeping in touch with the hardcore in an all-access world.
Mostly - yes, because there's more money to be made through the casual market
but definately not supporting very strongly. Metroid, Zelda, and Mario are all "Hardcore" games.
I think what Nintendo is doing is actually a good thing bc it is bringing people into the market that never really played games before.
This is good for Sony and Microsoft bc it might give these consumers interest in their consoles as well.
I think judging Nintendo on doing that, is pretty narrow minded.
Their main priority is this new audience, to win them you need to convince them.
People pretend, Nintendo is already going on like this with the Wii for a couple of years now, but the thing isn't even out for a year.
More games are already starting to show that the Wii isn't just for mini-games and parties.
Devs are Supporting the Nintendo much more in this generation and its only growing.
Online games are coming too( a thing you are all bashing).
I mean because we have those mini games now doesn't mean we will only have those types of games in the next couple of years.
While they are winning a new audience, I feel they are alienating the true crowd. The people who buy multiple titles a year are the backbone of the industry b/c it is software the defines a console. While Mario, Metroid and Smash Bros are quality games for core (or real) gamers, Nintendo's past and apparent future of releasing a lot of high quality software on their consoles hasn't exactly been good. They may sell another 10 million consoles and that's great, but will the people buying these consoles be buying software? Maybe they will, but as for what I saw from their conference, I saw them abandoning their core audience. There is nothing about Wii Fit or Brain Age or anything else that interests me at all.
are hardcore gamers going to be occupied with metroid, zelda and mario '' just annoucing mario tax collector'' to me there not all taht great frachises
Giving less attention? Yes. Abandoning? No.
nintendo is trying to attract a wide audience with its wii-mote.. kids and family.
was Nintendo ever hardcore? don't think so.
Forgive me, because this comment might come out as me totally sounding like a prick, but without Nintendo you wouldn't be experiencing your favorite hobby in the way you do today. Nintendo was THE hardcore for many many years. Anyone who's sat through 11-hour Earthbound marathons on SNES can attest to this. I'm sorry but you've just aged yourself as being 16 or younger by that one comment.
is just a hardcore Sony boy.
Nintendo is the king and always will be. Unfortunately a lot of the younger generation doesn't see it that way. Nintendo pretty much saved a dying industry from Atari back in the day.
I feel exactly the same way. I may go home and play 360 or PS2 for hours on end but I also have the respect for the company that picked videogaming up on it's shoulders after the post-arcade videogame crash in the 80's and carried it for so many years on it's own. You think the Genesis and the GameGear were going to bring gaming into the hands of millions and millions and endless future generations....no, they weren't. And Atari's Jaguar was basically a death-throw for that company and Nintendo took control. Younger kids these days have no idea what it was like in the late 80s and early 90s when you honestly DIDN'T KNOW if this was the last system a company would make. We take it granted today that gaming will be around forever but back then it was a day-to-day affair and there were months when people thought videogames had gone, never to return.
It seems like titles are comming, so is it just the difficulty level the hardcore player wants? If so, why not just have a few different levels of difficulty available for play?
That said, I understand that they are putting more time & effort into the non-game, but it is making them a lot of $$$. So I guess you really can't blame them.
See it like this, if they keep on selling like this, more Devs see that developing for this console could be worthy and join in.
More DEVS equals more games, and you can expect to see more games for us "gamers".
Even if the the nongamers only buys one software with their Wii,the more Wii owners, the more Devs will consider to join in and much more games we can expect, and because of this the existing gamer base might Be more interested in the Wii because of a large library(containing all sorts of games and not just mini games).
So let the non gamer get the numbers high, because it means something good for us too.
I still don't know what is meant by the term "Hardcore gamer". Does mean someone who plays games morning, noon and night? Because I don't. Please someone enlighten me.
In my opinion, Nintendo lost me after the Nintendo 64. There's only so much Mario, Zelda and Metroid I can stomach before I get bored. I also reckon i've simply "grown out" of those games.
Yes if it wasn't for Nintendo and Sega, we wouldn't be playing on 360's and PS3's but I'm a lot older now, so my tastes have changed.
sick of metroid, mario and zelda, is that all the hardcore gamers are going to have on the wii? i hope not, i want more games, tho when nintendo makes a new game for hardcore it fails, Geist, custom robo. their casual stuff is better, but not interesting that long.
stop bringing those same old games up for nintendo please, im sorry nintendo has given up on hardcore thats clear and simple, u guys name 2 games u have for the wii that u havent gotten bored of in 2 weeks. zelda is the only one
Wario ware, and redsteel( im not kidding) now shut it.
o yeah and you sick of those games? yet you cant w8 for GTA 5657950 in the future right?
Warioware is just minigames aren't they?
Please don't mention Red Steel. That game almost fooled me into thinking that I should buy a Wii.......until I played it.
Nintendo....alright for some, but just not for me and my friends anymore.
By the way @Sidar, it would be in your best interest to retract that last sentence about GTA having sequels because:
How many Mario games have the been?
How many Mega Man games have their been?
How many Zelda games have there been?
You just loaded a shotgun and shot yourself in the foot :)
I try to break my record in wario ware, so im still liking it.
I like the gun fights in redsteel this is my opinion and the answer to his question.
"You just loaded a shotgun and shot yourself in the foot :) "
no i havnt, he stated he is sick of those games yet he would love every GTA game that would come out.
and i never ignored the fact Nintendo has created so many mario games, its just he saying he got sick of them but i can bet on it he would love all those other sequels in the future.
u may like it, but its obvious that red steel is garbage. that and i said what is nintendo gonna make, not ubisoft, which redsteel is ubisoft, maybe u shud shut it if u dont know what ur talking about.
warioware is not a deep game, its full of 3 minute long mini games and imo is garbage, hardcore gamers dont play minigames of picking your nose for a month, or atleast not for a main attraction.
you should shut it because if you said "games made by" then it would have been a different story.
you said name 2 games you have for the wii ;).
even if wario isnt deep you said : name 2 games......and i did.
so next time you go "you dont know what you are talking about" say it the correct way.
well ok ur right on me saying 2 games, but red steel sux, and wario sux IMO, but if u enjoy them then hey, have fun.
o and for the record i dont really like GTA lol, i used to luv SNES back when nintendo had ALOT of good games, but those companies went to sony, and make their serious games for ps3, while giving the novelty games to nintendo, why u think Wii isn't getting soul calibur 4 but some other game? not saying SC legends is gonna suk, but im sure u guys wanted SC 4, ya havent had one since SC 2 lol.
stick with ur million link's killing ganons, and mario fighting bowser and saving peach, and samus killing metroids LOL!!!!! 20 years of the same...sorry out of control their, its just funny IMO, but im glad u was able to name 2 games lol, and they werent even good games, thats what u had to mention...LOL *sigh, wipes laughing tear. i'll be enjoying my bunch of games for ps3 this summer till the future ;p, o and same when i get my 360
A bit more thorough: There's GTA, GTA London 69, GTA London 61, GTA 2, GTA 3, GTA Vice City and GTA San Andreas, whereas there's just one more of the main Mario games: SMB, SMB2, SMB3, Lost Levels, SMW, SMW2, Super Mario 64 and Super Mario Sunshine.
In my opinion, it doesn't matter how long a franchise kicks it. The most important thing is to keep things fresh and innovative. Super Mario Galaxy is a good example. Flying from planet to planet is actually so different from other Mario games that the game could belong to a totally different franchise if they changed the main character and some enemies.
GTA IV seems to be very content driven too and thus it is one of the few "next-gen" games that I look forward to.
they could have made SC4 for the wii but why not try something different? im not the only one who cant wait for that games, and why do you think Nintendo is the only console i will own? unlike many others here i will own them all eventually.
So SC4 wont be a problem
As for mario and zelda...i think you are missing the point of nintendo, Their story's are basicly the same, but they try to change/improve game elements, the way a platform game should be played, the way you solve puzzles in zelda.
heck i have killed ganon a million times, but the games are still FUN.
The only reason its Mario and zelda is because so many people know them, i bet if they used different characters you wouldnt say they make the same games over and over.
between 20 years ago and now, they have done allot with the franchise and each new mario or zelda game feels different.
its only the beginning and you are telling me that this console wont have good games in the future and i doubt that.
thnx for proving my point =)
Short answer No
Long answer No
To even think we are being abandoned is plain stupid, Metroid, Mario and SSBB all being released in one year along with many other "hardcore" titles.
But when it comes to originality, all of it is going towards the new market. We keep seeing sequels for our beloved Nintendo franchises but nothing is being added to keep them fresh like the new casual market games. For example, Zelda could have benefited muchly from 1:1 sword controls.
All of the new exciting things are happening for those casual gamers out there, they get the new ways to play and the wacky fitness games. We just get our beloved classics.
I agree that Zelda needing 1:1 control. In fact much of the reason why I first wanted the Wii was that it would for the first time have 1:1 control so it actually felt like you were using a sword....
...of course the truth was far different, which permanently put me off the Wii.
As for Wii fitness, I use Eyetoy Kinetic every day for the Ps2 and I think it's far superior since it actually tracks ALL of your body's movements with the eyetoy. Good for the family also. (My mum was doing it.....though she only lasted 3 days before collapsing lol!)
I'm still waiting for someone to come out with what the definition of a "hardcore gamer" as opposed to a "casual gamer" so I can answer the original topic question
I've been owning and playing Nintendo consoles since 1986. There was a time when Nintendo has like 90% of the market and as getting all the great Exclusive games. I'am still Nintendo fan, event hough, I have grown up. Hence, why I have the Wii.
A. Nintendo still has these Nostalgic crowd, like me in their mid 20's still playing, well you've guessed it, Mario, Zelda, Mario Kart, and Metroid. While these games graphically have not surpassed anything thing other competitors have been able to come out with, I still feel like , I have a tradition going on, since I've played them all.
B. Ever since Nintendo being kind of greedy, neglected to share a console add-on with Sony, thing shave not been the same, as we know Sony came out and just stole the show, as well as exclusives. Nintendo slowly began to market more towards the younger crowd, after that happened. Somehow Pokemon(GBA) craze, got them through the late 90's, with the exception of Zelda(N64), Goldeneye(N64), Mario 64(N64), Super Smash Bros(N64), and a few others. The gamecube , I had but didn't buy much for.
The game cube was the biggest Question Mark for Nintendo, but their "handheld" division was still king.
C. A lot of gamers followed the big games unto sony consoles, the past few years. So did I follow suite, as the PS offered more hard-core games. So yeah, I have come to not expect hard-core games from Nintendo, because their Hardware is not up to snuff. Developers can't use that to run some of the best gaming engines available today. I jumped unto the Xbox and also had Dreamcast, but these consoles as well were geared towards the hard-core gamer.
C. So have I totally moved on from Nintendo..NO, I still have a wii, but I wouldn't dare, get a Multi platform game on the Wii version because it is gonna lack so much, the Xbox 360 or the PS3 might have. If they come out with new innovative games, Yes, I will give them a shot, as well, as I'm waiting for SSB, and Mario Galaxy. Nintendo does need more 3rd-party support. I think , it will get it, since it's so cheap to develop for, as well as the learning curve, is very low.
D. I think Nintendo has moved from the Hard-Core a while back. It is evident from their console architecture, and features other boxes and hard-cores want but they have not delivered. Online/graphics and such. The funny thing is, Nintendo does well at what they have been doing best. Getting all types of people to play video games. Kids, parents, grandmas..casual gamers and there are some hard-cores out there, that probably do own the Wii. (Hey it's cheap).They have figured out, the hard-core gamer is not the only type of gamer that matters. This is so evident in Japan..well let's not even go there. They are Crazy about Nintendo.
It's a different experience playing bowling with my niece on the wii, then after she leaves, I'am chainsawing, some turd on XBL..(take that mofo) hehe
Very good post! I reckon you hit the nail on the head about Nintendo and it's shifting focus. A bubble sir :)
Last comment made me laugh and is very true.
I'm an older gamer - mid 30's...been gaming since the Atari 2600 and owned most systems through the years and ALL Nintendo systems - save handhelds - though I currently own a DS Lite.
I'm wondering if this has something to do with our perceptions. I consider myself hardcore - play everyday, own multiple consoles etc, but my tastes are changing. For example, I was 5 minutes into the Blue Dragon demo before I turned it off. I played Smash Bros on the 'Cube this past weekend with my niece and nephew and was bored.
I love Zelda:TP on the 'Cube as well as FFXII(a more mature themed JRPG on the PS2), but I think that some game developers have accomodated the increasing average age of gamers while Nintendo is sticking, for the most part with the kids. - Not entirely, mind you. RE4 on the 'Cube is my vote for one of the best games of last-gen.
So, is age a factor here? And not just biological age, but gaming age.
If you are 20, but have been gaming since 8, you are clearly a vet - so gaming age. Have our tastes matured and become sophistocated to where the Wii just isn't appealing?
I know that sounded snobby. I just mean that we want more substance to our games.
but I'll take a stab at it. I think, you are partially right but developers are are in it for the money first. I mean they want to put out the best product on t he best hardware out there, and some times they do have to compromise because you might have a console that's is not up to par, as far as the hardware goes.
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So you are born a GAMER..
**Pre-School to Middle School**
You enjoy playing your handhelds(which Nintendo owns), and you will probably have the Wii as your first conolse, since it has that innovative factor and the price, makes it an easy buy, for parents. Developers will try to cater to that market, the best they can, while compramising.
**High School thru College**
You get a gf, and now VGames, with your friends online, is you time away from her. Your probably playing a Xbox or a PS brand, if you have the means of getting both. Developers, like this age group, as this age group can continue to embrace adult material, unlike going back in time and making kiddie games. They will continue to embrace, Drinking, sex, scandaly dressed woman, violence, guns, and some of the stereotypes that drive Hard-core games.
**You are now Married with kids, with a job.**
Less time to play video games,, and when you do, you might be playing the Wii(with your kids/family, look it's nintendo again), as well as you might be playing an Xbox 360 or the PS3.
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The age factor is an issue but the bottom line is developers want to cater to every platform if they have a chance. Unless they are 1st parties and such and have no choice. Money money money..is where it's at, and since people will always have kids, the cycle continues with Nintendo. since kids eventually grow up, the cycle continues with Sony and MS. Of course that doesn't mean some people wouldn't like to stay in Never neverland.
i have been gaming since i was 4, im almost 20 now and Nintendo games are still the best games in my opinion.
"Have our tastes matured and become sophistocated to where the Wii just isn't appealing?"
So this doesnt goes for all.
As for your "kids" part, E doesnt stand for kids only it stand for everyone, in other words kid friendly and suiteble for teens and older people.
You make good points. I was just throwing out the thought for discussion because I'd noticed my tastes changing - but that doesn't mean everyone's will!
And just because my tastes are changing does not mean they are becoming more sophistocated or mature...quite possibly the opposite!
It's all about fun, right?
Nintendo isn't abandoning the hardcore any more than 3rd-party developers are abandoning the PS3/360 in favor of Wii/DS development.
It's simply a shift of focus rather than abandonment.
Sony PS3 will be for people who are hardcore or who want just the latest and greatest tech...bluray, cell...HOME.
Xbox 360 will be for people who want to be hardcore and play Halo 3...
There is nothing wrong with any of this...the Wii will never be hardore you will never see a Gears of War or Killzone 2 on the Wii...it just can not do this type of game...plus wiimote can not do everything a xbox 360 controller or Sixaxis can do...it just a different controller and will have to have different games. Its a different experience.
I hope your bubbles get devoured so you can sit back and read what some gamers with real knowledge have to say.
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