Rob Crossley writes. "With motion control needing faith from the masses, Sony is keen to show there’s no smoke and mirrors"
I don't know why MS is so terrified to show off anything of Natal. I mean, surely it does everything they've promised no? Why not show it off? All i've seen is variations of that stupid red ball game (don't lie, you know it sucks) If that's Microsoft's kiler App for Natal..eesh, no wonder they are hiding it!
I believe that if Natal was up to snuff compared to how they are marketing it that Microsoft would be showing it at every possible chance. I smell something fishy here...
They could just be waiting for E3. I'm guessing they don't have a lot bombs to drop this E3, so they may just be holding back to have SOMETHING to show.
If they needed filler for E3, you would think that they wouldn't be allowing Gears 3 footage either
Oh, I hear ya. But everybody has a good idea about what Gears 3 will be like, so they don't need to hide it. But I think MS may have a surprise or two with Natal. I could be very wrong, but I expect to see something new at E3 regarding Natal.
I am a PS3 only owner, been a PS fan since the launch of the PSX back in '95. I do believe that MS has at least ONE bombshell to announce with Natal. I think they are purposely holding back NEW information on Natal to make as BIG a splash as possible with their night b4 Natal E3 event. They will have a couple of really fun unique gaming experiences to show off Natal. If they don't have much to show, then they are going to look awfully silly with the Natal only Pre E3 showing...and MS is not stupid, they know how to spend money and they know what they are doing. I am really curious to see how much more robust and advanced Natal is from the Eye toy and PS eye. IMO...Move is the BEST of both worlds, it combines portions of Natal with facial recognition and voice control (via software) and has the ability to use augmented reality to really put the player in the game. Of course you have BY FAR the most accurate, lag free, 1x1 control to with the Move controller. No doubt about it....my excitement level for E3 2010 is the highest it has ever been except for console unveiling years. CONCHallelujah
If they were holding back some big bombshell for e3... then why are they not allowing cameras in AT e3? There's one reason and one reason only that they do not allow you to film natal. LAG. They know that natal has an inherent lag that cannot be avoided (the same lag you see when move draws a sword in your hand, in both cases because they have to wait for the video signal in order to do anything. when move is operating without the augmented reality aspect of it, there is no lag just like with wii motion plus). They know that if they let cameras in, the comparisons with move showcasing natal's lag will be non stop throughout e3 damaging the impact they hoped to have with it. so, instead, they're only allowing a select group to play it without cameras. and i swear, if i get there and see red balls flying around, i'm turning around and walking back out.
for kicks and giggles, last night i did some searching and reading about the 95 CES time when Atari showed off a VR headset and Sega also had a VR headset. Suffice it to say...neither ever made it out of demo phase but they both proclaimed the future was VR headtracking motion control even back then. Fast forward and the only one to really do anything with the motion is nintendo and now you got the other two wanting part of it. Both are probably waaaay past the phase the jag and genesis VR helmets were in to end up scrapping them. I have my hopes up (which i rarely ever do) that they will both wow the crowd. Sony is being more open which is both good and bad as with the openness comes criticism. Same will happen with natal but MS is at least limiting the exposure to direct feedback to themselves instead of it being showcased for everyone to see. Once the smoke settles, I am betting they will release the highlights of their presentation/demos and for sony...well it will just all be out there. good and bad.
While it may have issues, the way MS has marketed Natal really does show it as a revolutionary tech, although that isn't necessarily true. Whether it is successful depends on the price and how many people buy that marketing, and I have a feeling a LOT of people will. The Move demo with SOCOM kinda makes me want to get one. Haven't seen any game for Natal that I think I would like, also I don't really have any room for it because my Xbox 360 is in the bedroom, and i don't have any space to move around in front of the TV.
All I know is that Natal gets skewered every time someone points out the lag. Funny though that no one really points out the Move's lag, which is still there and has video proof. It's about the same as Natal... milliseconds, but noticeable. My money is STILL on the Move for being more relevant to gaming overall, but it will ultimately come down to the games, NEITHER of which have shown anything that really lights my fire.
The problem with Lag on Natal is, this is something that currently seems to plague the eyetoy - PSeye type technology. There's a lot of calculations that must be done in real-time, so it's hard to avoid it. Microsoft is trying to prove it's different than PSeye, but if there's lag it's hard to see controlling with your body being of practical use for gaming other than a party game where precision is overlooked - no different than Eyetoy. Both may have lag, but it's more damaging to Natal than it is to Move, because things in game that require timely button presses still can be achieved through the wand.
The thing is ...M$ is not the only one that may comeup with suprises.. if a big game is annonced for natal ..that may incite sony to show off more as well to limit the "splash" done ... And at least sony have game to show with move.. i keep hearing fable 3 but ..i just can't seem to understand how a action rpg like thta can work with natal ...molyneux can prove me wrong of course ... but so far i don't have any faith in natal ,milo or molyneux itself ( hope some indy dev will make something awesome with it ( natal or move ) and shake E3 ( literrally )
I'm pretty sure you can play that exact game on Eye Toy play 1.
They are going to show it at their E3 conference. If everything was revealed the day before they wouldn't have any surprises Plus MS said there will be visual assets released after the conference.
Well most people think Natal was pre-move, I've been hearing rumours of this since 2007 so yeah, after three years of polish how much can be added in the next month? BU...BU... wait for Microsoft, why is this a trend, waiting? I mean, unless thay show Natal online on XBOX live then it's a failure, the xbox has grown up around the online without it there wouldn't be a 360 so if Natal doesn't support this then what's the point in it? Since Natal has been hinted at since 2007 prior to it's announcement by 2 years I HIGHLY doubt that there could be much Microsoft would surprise us with.
LOL...whats going on M$...a couple more wks and you don't want to share...Hmmmm....Doesn't M$ have an ENTIRE day put aside for Natal...Must be because they have nothing to show...Man, I hope they don't have some secret thingy thats going to ruin Sony's day...Hmmmm...
And Kevin is gonna show us how its done...
I'm hoping that Natal has a big showing at E3 that shows us that it can do more than just casual games. If it doesn't, I think any interest I have in it will completely fly out the window. It's very refreshing to see Sony come out with PS Move the way they have, though I think they could be a bit stronger by getting more third-parties involved in implementing the device as an option into their games. But, definitely a much stronger presence than Natal for me even with just their PS Move-only games.
There are some games that are already confirmed to have move support along with DS3. Socom 4 LittleBigPlanet Resident Evil 5 Probably some others will be revealed later
***There are some games that are already confirmed to have move support along with DS3. *** I said more third-parties involved. So far, there's one third-party involved, Capcom, and on a game that is already released. The other two games are first/second-party titles. Neither Natal or PS Move will go as far as they can unless they get third-party support. If they don't, both will just become first-party options that will serve to likely take money away from the possibilities of developing more first-party hardcore games for the general populace.
Sony put off the spring launch of Move to give them time to garner more 3rd party support and a more robust lineup. 3rd party developers making Move games (supporting the peripheral): http://en.wikipedia.org/wik... Confirmed Move titles: http://en.wikipedia.org/wik... Speaking of 3rd party games, I'm interested to see how Tiger Woods PGA Tour 11 (EA Sports) plays with Move.
Tiger woods 10 is gonna play like a charm with move.
Already got Woods11 pre-ordered, I'm really hoping it will outdo the wii motion+ version for accuracy instead of just copy/pasting what was done with wii.
Don't worry, I'm sure they'll have a spectacular concept video at E3 and plenty of "journalists" with full wallets from the natal screening to let us know how awesome it is.
The conspiracy theories get old.
I think they are just trying to keep it a secret so they can have a big unveiling. I don't really care though because I already have a Wii and it barely gets any use.
Yes, .. but they are mutually exclusive our wii has become a secondary Netflix devices that happens to have a waggle remote. (By far the most usage of the devices in years.... not hating,.. but from a gaming perspective my son and I play more gameqube games on it than anything else) I am interested in the Natal showing at E3 as MS has keep the product under tight wraps with very structured (closed) viewings.
So when you had your sd television, you thought "ah well, i don't need hd i already have a sd set"
I don't follow.. Are you asking why I don't play Wii games on my Wii? By the way..for allegoristic disclosure. The Wii's on an HD TV.
@dc1 I'm sorry it was directed at BeaArthur.
Its especially hard to understand given the vast amounts of hype they used in introducing it. The massive media blitz well outside the gaming industry that got it listed in Popular Mechanics.
Mechanics is an odd choice of word. That is all.
Don't blame him. Blame Popular Mechanics. . . The magazine.
Ah, I thought he meant popular media but that makes sense now. Thanks.
That's what I've been saying. All this private/exclusive Natal meets isn't helping the product one bit. Is it failing to live up to its hype?
Natal isn't set to appear until this holiday season. Sony is more camera-friendly because their product is coming right around the corner. No need to turn this into some giant conspiracy. Oh, and the new N4G looks great!
From what I've read, both Natal and Move are coming out in the fall. Doesn't seem far apart to me. If anything, Gears 3 isn't due out until next year, but we've been hearing a lot about that
@Bun Is it? I've seen Natal advertised for "Holiday 2010" and Move for "Spring 2010" That's a whole 2 seasons away. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't understand the implications of this article. I am seeing "Lol, MS is scared, natal is doomed" but I don't understand why people put so much tension towards pre-released products. As for Gears, we've heard only from what is given, and that's a trailer and some implications of a better MP effort.
I read a link posted late Feb (2010) that claimed Natal is due out in October and I've seen articles claiming Move is due out "this fall"....I haven't seen any 'official' date for either. Either way, you have to admit, this isn't 'typical' MS strategy
I can't check right now, but on the Official PS3 and 360 site's it says Holiday 2010 for Natal and Spring 2010 for Move. I'll check once I get home, but I think that's the reason for the hush-hush for Natal. I expect to see more typical MS marketing once the date nears. Move on the other hand seems pretty much ready for the market, E3 should be great.
I think the main problem here is that everyone with a dreamcast camera or a playstation camera already have a general idea of what will be done with Natal. It is very unlike a company not to share a little bit with people, especially when there is so much doubt surrounding your product. Maybe MS is doing this to come out and surprise everyone, but I still can't wrap my head around how to have full control while looking at the tv screen without buttons. That's Natal's original selling point - no controllers. I am sure they will show off some killer interface application, but I am skeptical of what they have in store for us hardcore gamers.
Move has been advertised several times as coming out this fall. I think last year they were shooting for this spring, but they've changed it to this fall. Even that Kevin Butler "future" ad stated this fall, as in 6 months into the future I think when the ad came out.
Natal it's either gonna come out and make us say man i didn't expect it to be that good, or Man! no wonder they didn't show anything about it. It truly depends on how accurate the camera is without the help of a very bright light or a white background. If it's as accurate as move, I'll give MS props. Somehow i don't think I'm going to thou.
Seriously. If they have such faith that Natal is going to be the next, big thing they why wouldn't they be promoting the hell out of it? The fact that they're hiding Natal and strictly regulating pictures/videos and such says to me that something's wrong. You don't hide away a product you want to promote, you hide away a product with problems. Bad internet hype can ruin a product like this before it even launches. It looks to me that Microsoft is scared of something.
Oh please. Are you seriously trying to tell us as much as you are on here that you are unaware that it is a month away that they are dedicating a day to premiere Natal at E3? It has been well known this is the case and Natal has been getting free press since it was shown at E3 09. You and anyone saying that MS is "scared" is delusional in that thinking when it has been well documented that they were going to show it at E3 and not before then.
Microsoft has been showing it off everywhere, they're just restricting photography and video. This isn't a case of Microsoft waiting to unveil Natal at some big E3 event, they did that last year. Now they've been all over the place with it but they're carefully controlling what gets out. I've got to ask the question, why do you think that is? You're idea that they're waiting for E3 doesn't really hold water given how much they've been peddling Natal across the world, so why do you think they're so desperate to control what photo's and video is actually released? Of course if you're posting on here there's a good chance you already know what the buzz is. The buzz is it's laggy. The buzz is developers are unimpressed. The buzz is that there's no software for it. The buzz is it's inaccurate to the point that MS has told developers not to try to develop action games like third and first person shooters for it, the meat and potatoes games for the 360. Be realistic. There's a reason Microsoft is hiding Natal and it's not because they're waiting for a big unveiling at E3. Time will ultimately tell but where there's smoke there's a good chance there's fire.
The two things I would think of is that either MS would like to keep their cards close to their chest so they can shock people at E3 or they don't have enough faith in the product yet to be able to let anyone see anything outside of what they want us to see. Knowing MS...who knows anymore.
If your product is convincing, there is no reason to lock out "word of mouth" marketing. The more the better. Not allowing video/pictures makes sure MS can control what will be communicated. That does not express having faith in your own product to me. But it would perfectly match M$'s marketing strategy. If you can't sell quality, do it with marketing.
Where is Natal?...M$ probably only has " red balls " to play with...Gonna show that red ball game the entire day they put aside for Natal...yep, that's it...I feel better...it's not like they have SOMETHIMG up there sleeve...
Yeah, to my surprise all we have seen from MS is Ricochet. Which was a disappointing display over all. And I don't know what happened to Milo, after such a huge reveal, they could have bothered to keep it in the sun a bit longer. I'm betting on MS's E3 being super natal heavy, as it is right now, Natal is a more of a mystery over anything. So they need to get the crowd rolling for this one.
[Minority Report] by PS-Move FTW!!! This is All I care, But I'm so Glad to Know that The PS-Move can cater every kind of Gamer, from the new Casual, to the Veteran hardcore Gamer, Win+Win Situation for all of us...
"Fast forward and the only one to really do anything with the motion is nintendo" - I don't think that's true Sony came out with the Eyetoy 1st! it's just that Nintendo is more successful with the Wii but the fact is, Sony came out with the true motion control games way before Wii! now, they are just enhancing the experience with PS EYE + Move but seeing how similar looking it is to the Wiimote + nunchuck, people are labeling it as the 'Wii too' and conveniently forget about the PS EYE it's working on!
I thionk much like Sony and the Move, everyone was waiting for Sony to show it and what it's capable of with hands on previews and such. many of the media said that Sony was affraid because it kept it in sooo much secrecy. I think we all gotta wait and see. Sony showed the goods and for the most part it's been pretty much positive press for them. MS has a conference just for Natal so i'm sure all the questions will have been answered with more to follow at E3. but i think this E3 will be the battle of motion controls I'm sure new Move games will be compared to natal games and we'll find out who has a more cohesive solution to Motion control. Sony will have refined control while Ms will have to put up or shut up with natal.
No matter how much you spin it, it will simply mean, that they don't have much faith in it. Which is worrying for those who are buying it, no matter how you look at it. There has been a lot of issues raised against Natal, and this will not help alleviate them. And I don't think MS could get away with controlled demos, celebrity testers and concept videos this year, unlike last year's E3. With only months away from release, Natal is going to need a more substantial showing, if it has any chance to succeed. Hype may have worked wonders for it initially, but failing to deliver on that, may also prove its undoing.
Its a 'pre E3' exhibit that they're refusing to let Camera's in. Makes sense. Why let camera's in to record what you're planning to show the world at E3? Still have my doubts about Natal, but I think this story is just looking for hits, and the title is misleading.
they've never announced that natal will be playable on the show floor as of yet, so far this natal experience with no cameras is all they've talked about.
Sounds a little fishy as to why they're doing their own conference separate from E3 - it's most likely just so they can control the media leaving the event. Meaning Smoke and mirrors galore.. and no control latency readings. They know the skeptics will tear the technology apart.
Mommy there taking picture's of me...
Yes Im a PS3 fan but Im also a fan of good technology (which is why I have an original xbox not the 360) I like Natal, I think its a good idea but don’t kill it if the 360 isn’t up to what microsoft have been boasting. Save the tec for the 720, design a console powerful enough to run it, then release it. We all know Microsoft, if this idea doesn’t catch on straight away they will ditch it and I just hope they wont with natal.
ms dont wonna show it totally off cause its abit naff and silly
doesnt have confidence in their product. Maybe they'll try another smoke & mirrors showing this year. For our sake lets hope not.
will not work for MS this E3 because ppl are looking much harder at Natal...
I don't see how this is a positive thing. You can't really spin it. When people come up with something they are proud of they show it off. Thats true for companies as well as any person involved. The only time this would not be true is if it had to do with security. Keeping it behind closed doors is not good.
Something sounds fishy.
With less than 6 months after E3 before Natal is released, it's a wonder why they wouldn't want as much publicity as possible. The only reason why Microsoft wouldn't let the media take their own pictures and videos is because their trying to hide something. If their willing to give out media which will show what they have before E3 anyways, why can't the media just take pictures and videos?
my only problem with natal is that we havent seen a real game with it yet. e.g. we have seen socom 4 on move and also resident evil 5 running with move. why havent we seen any games equivelent to these on natal???
Both Natal and Move FTL.... All crap.
Move is not crap. It combines 1:1 motion tracking with 3D spacial recognition of multiple objects, even when blocked by other objects. It's what Wii's setup should have looked like when it debuted. It's already been demonstrated to and tried by industry press (with REAL games that are more involved than a red ball!) and the impressions are anything but crap. Natal, on the other hand, has left many many questions in peoples' heads and the whole secrecy thing from Microsoft isn't helping either.
We'll see, but things aren't looking to good for NATAL at the moment. Why not show it ? Past few weeks Sony has let journalists have a go with Move and they all really loved it. If you have a product that you know is a winner, why not flaunt it ?