Major Nelson gives his opinion about the recent news of Ubisoft removing paper manuals from their game packages.
Is this really that big of an issue? Probably 70-80% of gamers never even look at the paper manual!
95% of people didn't use other Os but that that was a huge issue =P keep paper manuals!!! The people who don't want them can just not look at it lol, keep the manuals and everyone is happy.
I dont know about anyone else but I hate opening a game box only to see nothing but a disc...boring
I´m part of those! :) To me it doenst bother one bit but I do understand how others feel. I remember when music cds brought a 10 page "manual" with lyrics and the singers bio and stuff and I loved it! Right now its just a thin paper with a photo on the front and a website link in the back saying: "for lyrics and singers info visit www.++++++.com" and I hate that. Depending on the type of game the manual might have its importance. An RPG game manual is a must for me but an action title manual doesnt even leave the case. ;)
oh yeah we have manuals inside our games
I always look at the manuals before playing the game, and look at it if I forget how to do something. Expect all Microsoft published games not to include paper manuals any more. All to save 3 cents.
Either way you can still read the manual, digitaly, or physicaly, on to the next one please.
People defending this, you know you're going to be paying more for less right?
Because you are paying for a game + manual no? Ok you payed your $60 to get the game + manual, its just the manual is in the game now. What are you losing? The feel of the manual? Come on people, your crying over a a 7-15 page book now? I'd understand if it was last gen where they were like 20-40 pages, but really, what the manual tells you, the game does too. But some people just like the manual I guess. And before you guys go and say but the publisher is just trying to save a quick dime....piracy takes away from their sales, so yea. The only publishers that don't get pirated are pubs that do PS3 exclusive games and Sony themselves, either than that, they've all been pirated.
I think it really depends on the game. Most people would go to the manual to look up something the game never explained to them. So as long as the game has a very good tutorial and the player is never left confused then who needs the manual. The issue here is that it's most likely being taken out because of cost and Ubi would like say save a few bucks per package. However I am sure the player will never see those savings.
*opens Demon's Souls game manual* *rereads Nelson's comment* *looks back at Demon's Souls game manual* *shakes head in shame* As I've said, manuals aren't necessary for most games made because most games made are typical FPS/TPS without much need for story except what's presented in the game itself. But, there are a ton of games that are vastly improved with the addition of a manual, especially RPGs. The #1 reason why manuals have degraded isn't because they couldn't be better but because they now have to fit in the new slim DVD/Blu-ray cases. There's a lot of use to be had out of manuals, but the packaging just doesn't allow for it. So, manuals haven't gone the way of the do-do because of the content, the content has gone to sh1te because of the packaging.
old retro paper manuals.. the artwork for Zelda and FFs (among others) were amazing and inspired me as a young artist. These days, good artwork being found in a paper manual is like 1 outta every 10 games... maybe. I don't like the idea of seeing them go... however I'll live w/o them if there's nothing more than instruction in the manuals. Is this so they can say .. "oh this one is the more expensive manual'd-edition. If you want the paper manual you pay extra" ... in a industry where greed is an ever increasing business model, I can see this happening.
It might not be a big deal when you look at the manual issue alone. Well it is, if you look at rich and entertaining manuals like MGS4 or Demon's Souls. But the point is publishers shouldn't get away with keeping on cutting down costs on the customer. A game case is built to hold a manual. I like using Steam too, but if I buy a game in a box, a manual belongs in there. Period.
They should allow you to download a digital manual on the games website. That way, you could view it online, and print it out if you really wanted a hard copy. Problem solved, and it would be a lot easier and cheaper than printing them and including them in case.
I see this as another step closer to digital distribution. Eventually they would have to figure out a way to replace the game manual. Think of all the legal stuff they hide in there, or all the basic tutorials and guidelines for new users. In a digital distribution era, this stuff will have to be made available digitally (surprise!). I personally think it is ridiculous to only have the option to own something digitally, but since most countries run off of currency printed on paper... this will fit right in with the mantra of paying for the belief that you own something.
Seeing the manual in the box with the nice logo on the front is part of opening the game for the first time. Plus I like to pick it up and sniff it... Mmmmmm manual!
Will they be including the info on the disc (wouldn't take more than a few Mbs) , or will they just make it available for download?
Keep the manuals in the box but just through them in a recycle bin....
First it's the manual, then it's the disc. Soon we'll be buying download coupons at retail. Digital distribution +1, production values -100.
If by production values, you mean needless, wasteful packaging and pointless distribution miles, you'd be correct. Why don't you go back to tapes. Remember tapes? Yeah. Digital distribution is coming, whether you like it or not. Because it's better.
When you assume, you make an ass out of u... The rest doesn't apply here. I am a big fan of digital distribution. I am also, however, a big fan of getting something tangible for my money. There's a big difference between owning a game, and owning a license to download and play a game. I have purchased many games through Steam, Impulse, and Direct2Drive. For titles that I am really looking forward too, though, I still like to go through the whole pre-order/pickup/eagerly flip through the manual & other materials (maps, supplementary materials, etc) process. And I don't get the tape analogy either. Here's one for you though. Has the availability of services like Netflix put Blockbuster out of business? There are obviously still a lot of people, just like me, who like physical products, as well as digitally distributed items. You don't have to choose one or the other, you know.
in the future, you will have a digital copy of a game, pay same price as retail version only: no resale value, no returns, no trade ins companies like Gamestop will crumble under this, the electronics section at Wal-Mart will dwindle. This applies to all forms of media - movie stores, cd stores, video rental stores - digital downloading is anti-economic. If this goes mainstream, so many people are going to lose their jobs, its not even going to be fit. Just look at the monopoly Netflix is trying to build, its insane - all our money will be going into one pocket.
Wow, 16 disagrees, you guys must really love your boxes. Re:Karlowma Nice going on the Blockbuster front, they announced that they may be facing bankruptcy in March. And their share price has only recently (last week or so) recovered slightly because they think they'll get away without resorting to bankruptcy. It's not exactly a great example. Re:kvg88 Yes, a lot of unskilled temporary workers are going to lose their jobs, when this inefficient retail chain collapses. When publishers stop hiking up their digital prices (which they only do to keep their retailer partners happy), GameStop et al will die. I mean, "digital downling is anti-economic"? What sort of bullsh*t thinking is that. iTunes is anti-economic right? I mean, Apple just announced a fantastic quarter, their market capitalisation may beat Microsoft soon, and you're saying their appstore is anti-economic? The word anti-economic does not even make sense. Digital distribution is a good thing. It means your money goes into game development, and not into the rental of retail real estate.
Okay you're right, Blockbuster was a bad example. I wasn't aware they had been mulling over bankruptcy protection, but you are absolutely right. I was really only illustrating the difference between an analogy that makes sense, though you have shown it to be inaccurate, and one that doesn't (ie: cassette tapes). I only disagreed once. ;) Stating your case in a more considerate manner will generate less negative feedback.
I didnt look at most of the manuals but I DONT KNOW i repeat I DONT KNOW want to buy any game that dosen't include manuals. Its like buying a used game.
"I DONT KNOW want to buy any game that dosen't include manuals" Once again in English lol
I'd love to see your chinese and see you do better...
and I'm suppose to know someone is Chinese how? like I give a toss. 我說中國謝謝
lol,srry I mean I DONT NOT* :S
at militant07: I think you mean "I do not" or "I don't" * but don't worry, your native language isn't English so its understandable. On Topic: I prefer them selling games without manuals, although I do love manuals, I just read it for the first 5 minutes and never see it again. Some of my games get their manuals lost as well. If its better for the environment, it's okay with me to stop producing useless things. The future is obviously Digital Download.
I think what he meant is he do not want to buy games without manual.
heh, i dont know whats wrong with me today :S and again yes I mean I dont ^_^ im totaly agnist this sh!t ,Im a collector you can see that by viewing my profile, over that the price will ramin same!
I'd miss the manuals myself. I tend to read them before I play the game, usually on the way home after buying. Used to be a time that a game came with all kinds of stuff as well as the manual (I'm not talking about collectors editions either), they made a bit more effort years ago. Now it's streamlined, ie - saving themselves money, and all you will look forward to when you buy a game after the manual goes is the game. Maybe all that matters is the game, but still, it sucks.
Yeah, back last gen user manuals were chockers with heaps of info. I'd always read the manual from back to front. But manuals not are very sh*tty. Now it's basically the game controls and credits. I have to go online and look up and faq for information that should of been in the manual. So if this was happening last generation I'd be quite upset, but as far as I'm concerned they stopped shipping manuals a long time ago. Demon's souls didn't let me down though and niether will gt5. GT games always come with a bible of a manual, it's awesome :D
thats ridiculous.... i always look at my manual just to see whats inside, read all of it (well most of it) and then play the game. i guess its a habit.
if they want to save cost they should go with digital manual and everybody happy
Looking at the screen just isn't the same, it's alot easier to just flick through a book. Also paper manuals don't just tell you how to play the game, they tell about characters, weapons, unlocks etc. The only thing you learn at the start of every game is the buttons.
It is inconvenience to go back and forth from the PC to the PS3 (in my case anyway). Imagine that while you were playing and then you did not remember which button to push to make you character duck, you have to pause the game, turn on the PC, find the manual on the net and read it. All that work for finding a button. That is what happened to me the other day except I got a manual to refer to. I was playing my newly acquired BF:BC2 and jump straight to the online match and I forgot the button mapping. I just open the manual and bam.. im good to go.. see how easy that was..
I definitely feel nostalgic about game manuals. I remember the days where I would get a brand new game, and on the drive home I would pop that little manual out and flick through it. It made that drive home just that more bearable. Even now, after I finished a day at Uni, I'd pick up a game and as I travelled home on the train I'll read through the manual and it would really get me amped up to play the game. So I'm all for keeping the manual, if only for sentimental value.
You think publishers give a sh¡t about the environment? That's so far fetched and unbelievable, they don't even make the claim. It's all about the Benjamins, mang.
there is more to it than just a hippy view of saving the environment. i guarantee you that there are probably government incentives to going green in addition to the saving of print like tax benefits and other things like that.
most industrial paper comes from paper-grown tree zones =) no innocent tree's suffer usually....not now days, however it still happens but its not so much about the tree's its about the money
BS... I always use the manual. the problem is many game manuals are crap of late because they dont put anytime into it....its all about saving money...how frigging transparent these suits are. they treat gamers like morons...when in fact, many gamers just see through these greedy companies
I really don't care about paper manuals these days. They were useful during the NES and SNES days but not really useful since then. I would rather companies save paper and money so they can put those additional savings into higher production values in the games or pass on the savings to me, the consumer.
You're really anticipating a price drop out of this? Really?
That money saving is only going to go back into the pockets of the head honchos. They're not gonna decrease their profits when they could widen them with the savings they gain from not producing the booklets.
Director: I propose that we get rid of the manuals in our games from now on. Then we will be doing our bit for the environment and also with the money we save we can lower the prices of our products. What does everyone think about that? Rest of the board: *stunned silence* Company accountant: Lower.....prices? Rest of the board: *stunned silence*
Rest of the board: Hysterical laughing coupled with pointing at the director only to break out in more tear inducing fits of laughter
All the credit goes to you, I just butted in :)
They'd never pass on the savings to the customer. It's a strategy to cut down costs to maximize profit. Next we'll get a burned DVD-R with the game and PDF file of the cover. And then only a redeem code to download a digital copy of the game. All for the same price of 60$ of course.
= 30 000.00$ - 40 000.00$ (assuming the cost production is 3 or 4 cent by manual) they are not doing it for the green nation... Cash is the only reason, one year salary for a tester !!!
I, for one, like manuals. I don't always read them in depth, but I always leaf through them when I first get a game. It is part of the "experience" of opening a new game. Plus, it is nice to have the control schemes laid out on paper so that on more complicated games I don't have pause and open up a menu if I can't figure something out. PLUS, I don't care how Ubisoft wants to couch this issue. It is NOT about the environment. That is complete BS. They will be saving hundreds of thousands of dollars by removing the manuals. And we, as consumers, certainly will not see any reduction in the retail price of games regardless of the cost savings to Ubisoft. Great corporate spin... save money by taking away something that many consumers enjoy and get good public/media reaction by saying they are helping the environment.
manuals have always been a last resort for something to read on the crapper. They will be missed...
Props for saying what we were all thinking!
Hell I mostly don't even buy games new cuz they are too expensive anyways. To a lot of people Gamestop is evil but they are also a blessing, I'd much rather give my money to gamestop than greedy publishers who still are intent on giving you less and making you pay more. Only games I've bought brand new are Sony games and Bioware Games.
Manuals, specialy the ones with art work and bios. like the ones for the god of war games. Besides, not everyone has Internet connection. So a manual whether you use it once, is still useful. What happens if your game doesn't work? Or your system suddently crashes? And you have no Internet connectivity? Besides having a manual gives the purchase weight and a sense of a legit purchase. Imagine buying a new car without a manual?lol man
Remember when PC games came in awesome big boxes with massive manuals as standard? I sure do and I remember when PC games started coming in terribad DVD cases, too. Also, the pain of having to fork out an extra $10-$20 for a nice collectable case. Well **** publishers. If they don't want me to have a nice package I guess I'll just lose them and the lame-ass middleman and buy games off Steam.
The book gets put to the side. I just pop in the game and keep it moving. Just don't need to read on how to play, i just play!
the first thing i do is look at the manual but look at it this way you will be able to pause the game a look at it on the screen instead of paper.
they should comment on xbox failures after failures instead and why xbox owners have to pay for a service when there are no games in their service and explain also to bots why they should buy natal anyway bots will buy it coz bots are stvpid enough to believe microsoft empty promises.
When I was a kid, I used to take out my PS2 manuals and just look through them on roadtrips for something to do....
Saves trees ^_^.
I personally like looking through the manuals on 'some' games. Some give background info, layout maps, etc... It is nice to go into some games (especially RPG) with a little insight into what is going on before starting. I understand that it costs money to produce these manuals (yes, even the smaller ones) so my question is.... "Are they gonna reduce the price of the game?" I seriously doubt it. If they include the manual on the game disc itself so you can access it from the game manual, then I don't think I mind. However, I don't want to have to go to an actual website and download it. For those touting DD.... yes, digital distribution is a part of our future; however, we (especially many parts of the US) are at a point where our bandwidth is crippled by service providers. We are a long time from anything substantial to the speeds such as in many parts of Japan. Even then, Digital Distribution will not wipe out retailers. Many people simply love having the disc in their hands (games, movies, etc). That way they have something of value that they can do with as they want. Look at the movie downloads on the PS3. I have lost many movies and tv shows that I paid money to download only to be able to play on that PS3. And if that PS3 crashes... it is hard to get Sony to let you download again and when they do.... it isn't a simple process. You have to send in your PS3 to them for repair and when you get it back (and only then) you have to call them to deactivate your old PS3 so you can activate the new PS3 on the video section. There are pros and cons to DD. The most pressing is the lengths to which they (the providers) protect them.
saves trees, saves money, saves time, win win win Who cares
I can understand the uproar about this, I too like the aesthetic of opening a new game a seeing a manual ... and I generally read it (maybe not all of it though LOL). But I can see where the decision is coming from, it saves money for one, and it's a common known fact (not speculation) that the vast majority of people don't even read the manual. What does a manual contain these days? A brief intro to the game (which you more often than not get when you start the game), a couple of pages about the controls (viewable in game) and pages of copyright and legal stuff. Makes them sound obsolete, the only exception may be RPG/MMOs. IF they were removing manuals to save money which they can then pass the savings on to customers with cheaper games, it wouldn't be an issue. I think more people would be on board with that idea. But the simple fact is they are wanting to line their pockets with more money. What are they going to suggest next? Providing games without cases!? The decision is all about greed, period.
I usually read through them for fun but it's no big deal really. Sure it isn't ideal but I'm all for using less of our tress :)