With the PS3 Firmware 3.30 update, Sony has introduced a new Terms Of Service and User Agreement - Version 6.0 (April 21, 2010). The most interesting is paragraph 11, to cite: 11. MAINTENANCE AND UPGRADES...
Did not read what it was F$&@" Sony, they are saying that I may lose my save data games from one of their updates and that hey are not rwsponsable for it F$&@@ no
They are just protecting them self's legally, it does not mean they are going to release updates that are going to delete your save game data calm down
Thats speculation. Savegames would create a stir in the community since some of them are copy protected and thus no backup is possible. However, they are covering some base in the future. I have a feeling that SONY saw some troubling advance ih the hackers community towards their goal to f*** SONY and start pirating the games. So what does SONY do? Their remove the OtherOS since that was the base from where the hackers were building their plans. And now, with this new TOA, if a file on your PS3 is suspicious or not in order, the update can kill it by erasing it and thus preventing "the hacker" from further hack the system. They are covering their bases. Some people might not know this but the PS2 is the most succecfull console to date but it suffered TREMENDOUSLY with piracy. That was a motivating factor for some people to buy one. I have at least 5 friends who had a PS2 and never bought a single game. They only bought the modchip and started downloading and burning the games on dvds. Event though the PS2 was a success, piracy must of taken more than 50% software sales per title.
i guess anything will ever matter.
SCE America is based in a country where pretty much everyone needs to cover their collective asses to prevent lawsuits. It's the same as you being responsible for backing up your own data on your PC. If your computer crashes due to an HDD crash, you can't exactly blame the HDD manufacturer because of your own failure to backup your data. Sure the company that made your HDD might have made a lousy drive, on that ground you can RMA your drive, and they will typically replace it free of charge. But it's up to you to backup your own data, it's not on them. The HDD producer is only a producer of a product that you choose to store your data on, they're not responsible for the data you store on it.
"Such content may include automatic updates or upgrades which may change your current operating system, cause a loss of data or content or cause a loss of functionalities or utilities." SO SOny reserves the right to do whatever they feel is necessary, without consulting me, on the equipment I paid for, and if they stuff it up and lose my data... they take no responsibility? For heaven's sake. This is the absolute shameful pits, Sony! I understand you gotta cover your legal options against lawsuits, but this is ridiculous. Shame, Sony, shame.
read comment #6. IT WAS ALREADY IN THE OLD ToS. and please don't buy one or sell the one you have if it hurts you that badly. thank you.
@GrieverSoul actually if you use a usb drive and you run the backup utility copy protected saves are backed up - but you can only restore copy protected saves to the system where they originated
Uh... that has always been in the agreement. The only difference now is they specified further on the type of data they're not responsible for. Microsoft says pretty much the same thing in their ToS, only it's spread out over sections 18-20.
I noticed the new EULA version update (1.4) so I gave it a read. They are really covering their asses with their latest one, and I don't blame them. It's smart from a corporate standpoint, and even on a consumer level.
I'm not sure how that is good on a consumer level when a company protects itself? The only exception is when they are too big/important to fail. When a company protects itself it takes away the rights of the consumer. Although the company is rightly so and justified, there is no way that is good for consumers. I never really read ToS, because they can practically say whatever they want and you really got no choice, but to agree.
The concept is that by preventing the consumer from easily suing them, they protect the services they are able to provide to the consumer base as a whole. It's primarily to protect themselves, but the end result is the ability to continue delivering to the consumers. Without this verbiage, Sony and Microsoft would be nothing inside of a month following all the lawsuits. I'd rather have a Sony and Microsoft that protect themselves from outlandish lawsuits and have a goal of providing customer-oriented services/goods rather than not having them altogether.
I pointed out before that the 360 user agreement said the exact same thing that Sony's agreement now states, that they can update your console and add or remove any features they want, at any time without your consent. Have a read through the 360 agreement sometime. Sony's agreement before didn't have the "without your consent" part like the 360 agreement has always had. Again, people make way to much about this. We've been living with these user agreements on all our software, among other things, for decades now. If you don't agree, no one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to buy these products. I imagine the people who are voicing their concern regarding these agreements are also as equally outraged at MS's use of them. Actually, probably not. :)
For saying that this is not good for me the loyal fan I'm sure Sony is afraid of this last month I got my 3 YOLD and I ask the guy if I can get a discount or anything free because I also lost for the 3 time m one year saves files and he told me I have to backup my save datas and I told him that how if this YOLD thing happens from nowere and plus some exclusive games can't be backup and he offer me a free game he name me Kllzone LBP and few other exclusives and old games I chouse INfamous a great game btw. And know this BS , Sony is making hard for me to buy a secound PS3 everytime. See bs like this
I find it rather odd that in order to read the ToS, you must have first purchased the product...so...if you do choose not to agree with the ToS, it better be within the time frame that you are able to return the product.
trying to find the article :\
*backs up save files* I'd be pissed to loose even a days worth of what's been saved from game play, if i were to loose whole file or even worse ALL my save files i'd probably quit gaming...
@ The Maxx PS3 terms and conditions: http://www.scei.co.jp/ps3-e... PSN terms and conditions: http://uk.playstation.com/l...
Seriously people. Don't take people's words for things. This site clearly needs to do their research before flaming things up. I present to you the evidence: http://us.playstation.com/s... This is the ToS (version 4.0) published way back in October of 2008. Read section 11 of it, then read section 11 of the "new ToS" and you'll see that the old included that "loss of data" thing too. In fact, read the entirety of Section 11 from both the old and the new ToS and you'll see that they are the exact same. Word for word.
commodore64 Like this matters to you. You state that you only use your PS3 as a Blu-Ray Player. http://www.n4g.com/NewsCom-... Nuff Said.
You think the average consumer is going to go online to look up the ToS before they go and purchase a 360 or PS3? NOBODY has EVER read the online ToS first before they went out and purchased the PS3 or 360. And if they say they have....you are full of sh1t.
Completely irrelevent. They're available to read before you buy the product, you claimed they weren't. If people don't read them before hand, who's fault is that?
And what if the consumer doesn't have access to the internet? Are there anything written where a consumer can read the ToS? To assume ALL consumers that own a PS3 all have internet is rather narrow minded....
keep up with good work sony
As if the one hour lasting constant updates were not enough ...
Dude, i dont know were you live but these updates take like 5 minutes. From downloading to install. I ususally get home knowing there´s an update available (internet at work), I turn on my PS3, start the download and go do the things we do when we get home. By the time my chores are done, my PS3 is ready to go!
5-10 mins for me to download updates. Im satified
Where exactly do you live and who's your internet provider for your updates to take up to an hr?
lol, you must have some slow ass internet...
People need to realize that this doesn't mean Sony will be forcefully releasing updates that will do anything they're protecting themselves from. It's just a safety precaution. If you don't believe me, look at any other product existing in this world at this very moment. It's called being a smart businessman. And personally, I think if you don't back-up your save files, no matter what console, or PC, you are using, you're asking to lose it all. That's common sense in the electronic world. Back-up important files because EVERY single "computer" (Wii, PS3, Xbox360, PC, Mac) is destined to have problems, and you WILL lose everything. So I don't believe Sony, or any company, should be held accountable for your blunder.
sigh..... use the backup and restore utility.... you will find that your precious copy protected save survive the trip. i know this because i upgraded my harddrive and all my copy protected saves were restored on my 500gb drive, but it needs to be the same system.
yes ppl somehow keep forgetting that u can backup all saves even protected ones.
that was already in the old ToS As you can see, nobody reads them You can see the changes here: http://us.playstation.com/s...
hahaha... touché my friend! Nice catch! :)
Agreed. I was wondering what people were whining about here. I read the ToS fairly extensively just to use as a rebuttal because of people whining about the Other OS thing and I clearly remember the whole "loss of data" being in there when I read that weeks ago. So this is nothing new. And I don't see how people are whining about this. This ultimately is no different than Western Digital not being responsible for any data loss that you may incur due to their HDD failing. People will whine and cry about ANYTHING these days won't they?
updated the flash so you can watch video on Youtube again. It was killing me not being able to watch my low res youtube videos. LOL I am sure that's not all they added.
Oh noes! Sony is gonna kill my saves! Unfortunately the YLOD already got there first :(
remove HDD then noob
Lol. Shame I missed this reply a few days ago. What use is removing the hard drive? I can't put it in a new PS3 as it just gets formatted. And even if it were possible a lot of saves are copy protected anyway, so even with backups most wouldn't get transferred to a new console. Sony's own transfer utility (which obviously requires a working PS3), doesn't move copy protected saves. The only alternative is to try a hack repair job, or send the machine away for a 3rd party repair - or lose the saves. But thanks for your detailed and helpful response...
I can understand Sony needing to shut down piracy before it started. The only problm with all this is those who bough older models may have a case against Sony for removing features. Sony is in cover my ass mode but it will be far cheaper than letting piracy take hold. It's a win lose for everyone and a necessary evil. Funny I both support Sony for this and don't at the same time.
Sony has long had their asses covered. This is nothing new here. The whole "loss of data" was in the ToS for quite a while now (if not from the start). And the ToS will hold up in a court of law (doesn't matter if people didn't read it and understand it), so nothing is going to happen to them over the OS thing either. Sony isn't stupid.
Makes me wonder what they plan to take out next.
we have the right to fvck up your/our system. did anyone buy a ps3 or is it just being hired by you from sony?
All I saw was that they are not responsible if an update causes you to lose data. I saw nothing about you not being about to kill your own system.
tbh but a new hard drive backup your games its very easy although i understand your point about some games like resident evil 5 killzone 2 you cant back those up. Idk when i lose game saves it gives me a reason to play my old games over not a big deal annoying yes but not a big deal. At least i dont lose my online stats etc.
I thought the RE5 devs had relented and made it allowable to copy the game save - never played it but sure I read it somewhere. Guerrilla Games, on the other hand, made my one and only gripe with Kz2. No backing up the gamesave and never showed any sign of relenting on that. 99% SP completion . Why oh why wont Radec and his goons just DIE!! lol Hopefully GG will show a bit more understanding re Killzone 3 save copying.
omg.... really? you too? COPY PROTECTED SAVES CAN BE BACKED UP WITH THE PS3S BACKUP AND RESTORE UTILITY.... either that or my killzone saves are immortal and like to jump from hard drive to hard drive.
@duplissi How many times do you have to tell people? No-one seems to know.
Or maybe that's such an ass-way of doing it that no one wants to backup their whole HDD for just that one inconvenient save. Glad the option's there, but there's a better option: just remove the protection all-together.
How can you complain about an option to backup not being there, then when somebody points how how you do it, you just complain about how it's done? It's too inconvenient for you? Seriously? That's reason to just flat out flame them? Well guess what, the backing up process, period, is too much of an inconvenience for me. I'd much rather just talk aloud and use a voice command and then instantaneously all my files are backed up. Til I get that I'll just whine and cry about "not being able to back up" because it won't allow me to back up the way I want to.
@ian72 i know... oh well i should stop before i let this frustrate me.. damn you internet!
I'll translate Wrathman's comment for the other Americans here who don't speak UK-English: "Did we buy a PS3, or are we just renting it from Sony?" Not ragging on UK-English or Americans, I just like to make sure every understands each other. Also, I agree with Wrathman. Banning us from your network for modded systems is one thing, but reaching in and changing OUR property should be outlawed! This goes for MS, Sony, Apple, Kindle, etc.... And before you mention optional updates, the New Terms state they can do it at anytime, without you knowing.
you know what is funny is that Microsoft has already started this by monitoring people's mail on live. there are many times where I would get a Pic from someone holding a gun or something stupid and for some odd reason the content was deleted from my mail.
Funny, when microsoft sends windows updates that may corrupt your registry and possibly destroy your high performance gaming rig worth thousands of dollars....people blame themselves and not microsoft, when microsoft has around the same TOA hmmmm
I think that has much to do with the fact that you can fix the registry yourself if it borks itself by booting into DOS and doing the necessary operations. I'm sure Microsoft got its share of hate too, but it kinda went away when homebrew methods popped up. That and using apps like Acronis makes it easier and user-friendly to protect your registry.
What planet do you live on where people give MS a pass and don't harp on them?? MS never leaves court. They are always defending themselves. Jesus, are people really this ignorant? Or do they just pretend to be in order to justify some mental position they have?
I can't stop laughing. Sony sends me a email telling me to update the ps3 or get off their network. Lmfao NEWSFLASH SONY: j haven't been on your sh!ty network since last year when I downloaded FF7. And GoW3 was the only game I played on your system all year. I haven't touched it since I finished GoW3. And I have no interest in anything your releasing this year. So shove your updates up you @ss. Lmao
You got an email??? If so, post it here. We want to see this!
sony doesnt send emails telling u to update. and when u turn on ur imaginary ps3 it should tell you to update to new firmware or u cant go online. well how can they tell u in this "email"to get off their network if u cant log in until u update it. PWND. stupid bot. at least know what your talking about before you do it
the amount of people who will have agreed to the terms without reading through the changes
lol absolutely agreed. I love those people. They don't read a damn thing, and then when it gets pointed out to them they whine about it. The even funnier part--this condition ("loss of data") has been in there from the beginning. I love how people don't read then whine because they didn't know, though. Funny story: I actually saw a guy a couple weeks back that was claiming Sony could be sued for the Other OS thing because most people don't even read those ToS. Ignorance these days runs seriously rampant.
I may be wrong here but the way that I read this is that this gives them the ability to do stealth updates that would remove any custom firmware or prehaps something similar to the HBC on the wii. I dont THINK it has anything to with actual services on the ps3.
The response to this is so funny it's not like we are not used to backing up data on other hardware such as PC's, did you know that MS can not be held accountable for any data loss there either, IT IS ENTIRELY YOUR OWN RESPONSIBILITY TO LOOK AFTER IMPORTANT DATA AND SAVES, now shut up bots.
duplissi - 5 hours ago PM Track Ignore 5.2 - sigh..... use the backup and restore utility.... you will find that your precious copy protected save survive the trip. i know this because i upgraded my harddrive and all my copy protected saves were restored on my 500gb drive, but it needs to be the same system --------- yup. I guess to clarify, You can backup all save data, and you can restore that data on the same ps3. Save data that doesnt transfer to another ps3 is protected, meaning u can only restore it to the orginal ps3 were that save was made. hope this clears stuff up :)
mole hills and mountains ppl thats all i have to say.
I think it's funny how so many people believe that the Terms of Service prevents a service provider from legal action because they usually include a statement that they are legally binding. But if ToS is deemed to infringe upon the rights of consumers it can be discarded. http://secondlife.reuters.c... Just one example. Purchase is also a contract and with it comes consumer rights that the ToS can't necessarily override. I'm not saying that Sony has done anything legally wrong. They can write all of the ToS revisions that they want to.