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Sony Passed on Natal Tech, Explains Why

PSLS writes:

It's a little known fact that during the early days of the PlayStation Move, Sony had the opportunity to work with 3DV Systems. The Israeli based company, now owned by Microsoft, that specializes in digital imaging technology and the masterminds behind Natal. Ultimately, Sony chose to utilize a combination of light, a camera, and instruments used to measure the action of acceleration and magnetic fields instead of implementing the many patents undoubtedly held my 3DV. Recently, Dr. Richard Marks explained why.

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Gradient3098d ago

You have now experienced Project Natal.

NJShadow3098d ago

Or go to Toys "R" Us and pull out the support bungee cord on the vinyl ball "jail cell", causing a wave of red balls to come flying at you.

At least you can feel awesome for 10 seconds before being escorted out by a man-sized giraffe. =)

Microsoft Xbox 3603098d ago (Edited 3098d ago )

Sony has been using 3DV camera's in R&D for a while now. If you watched the Engadget show about the PSMove, Richard Marks explains how it may be robust using 3DV cams but the current PSEye can essentially deliver the same experience to the end user. That's why they decided to bring in the Move controller. Physical buttons and pure 1:1 tracking is the only way motion control gaming can capture both the casual and the hardcore gamers.

sikbeta3098d ago

PS3 + PS-Move = Minority Report = EPIC

That's All I care... well, and Real Games like SOCCOM4 too...

Bigpappy3098d ago

point #1: PSeye or Eye toy are not #D camera's because they can not sense depth (back and forth motion.

Point #2: the 3DV-Zcam is not the same design as Natal. They are both 3D cameras, but Natal for one, uses to lenses and has different software.

Point #3: Natal will not and can not be used with older 360 games with out having to re-optimize them (who would want to do that?).

Point #4: We will see if M$ knows what they are doing at E3 this year.

Off topic: Nice touch with The Red Ring on the 360. Shows this is a PS3 site for PS3 fanboys. Lets see what happens after E3. Maybe Sony is right and M$ is wasting their time with a glorified Eyetoy.

lowcarb3098d ago

After seeing that video no wonder Sony's hot in there commercials. Seems MS has pretty much taken an old idea and improved it for 360. MS has said there will be peripherals (you can scan in)which is where I think it leaves Move behind. Allowing you to use your legs, voice,finger, arms, facials, controller or no controller is going to be what separates the two. At E3 we will see which one looks more fun and serious. One confusion that keeps floating around is the talk of no controller for Natal when in fact they have stated time and time again some games will use them. Move relies on a controller while Natal relies on whats best for different games.

HolyOrangeCows3098d ago (Edited 3098d ago )

So you don't think depth perception can be simulated by software threw lighting and motion and you don't think that PS EYE will ever have software to allow body tracking?

Mama Bear and Cold Porridge fail again.

jden283098d ago

Why does everyone say that Sony or Nindendo were the first to do motion controlls, its not true ! Before the eyetoy or the Wii were even a glimmer of a thought in thier minds Microsoft had already release a PC motion controller and were well on their way to the next step force feedback before any of the other products ever existed. The tech was similar to the six-axis which is why Microsoft refused to adopt it in the x360 the already have and own that tech and knew it's limitations. But It's important to remember that just because 1 or even 2 company's pass on something it doesn't mean that the tech can't be adopted and work well... For instane the only resone that sony got into the console business is because Nintendo passed on its CD tech all the years ago. And the Sega Saturn (showing my age here) wouldn't have been such a mess if they hadn't passed on the tech that later became the N64.

Microsoft Xbox 3603098d ago (Edited 3098d ago )

Who cares who did what first. 1st generation of anything sucks.

mikeslemonade3098d ago

This guy has a PHD so he must be right about how MOVE is just better than Natal.

3XP3098d ago

I'm sure there are people holding PHDs that would say Natal is better. This guys works for Sony, what do you expect him to say.

@Bigpappy (Above)

You made a lot of great points, it's really sad to see so many people disagreeing with you, not because that actually don't agree but because they don't want to hear it.

Bubbles up.

beardpapa3098d ago (Edited 3098d ago )

I noticed a lot in the article the mentioning of the word "costs"

If those rumors of a $99 360 are to be true, Microsoft could easily create a $199-249 sku with included Natal. Consumers will be faced with the dilemma of going home with a $99 360 which... is inexpensive but lacking, or go home with a reasonably priced sku with the extras.

Effectively it would be like the dilemma we all faced when thinking of getting a Premium or Core bundle, or Elite vs Arcade. Of course, this is all just me saying 'if' it were to happen, this could also mean Natal could efficiently be in lots of households.

Now the Move ... I wonder how Sony will convince consumers to grab this accessory to extend the PS3 experience, and I wonder if they will include a reasonably affordable solution for new owners wanting the PS experience. And I only say this given Sony's track record when it comes to effectively marketing their products and getting consumers to notice it.

@Jden: I don't really poke at people but the typos in your spiel indicate your age well.

ChozenWoan3098d ago (Edited 3098d ago )

To Bigpappy
point #1: PSeye or Eye toy are not #D camera's because they can not sense depth (back and forth motion.

Answer #1: Correct. However, they can detect X and Y axis motion as well as the size of the PSMoves glowing sphere which allows them to extrapolate the distance of the PSMove to within 1 centimeter at up to 10 feet. 1 centimeter is the width of an adult finger, which is only discernible by Natal when your around 3 feet away from the cam.

---
Point #2: the 3DV-Zcam is not the same design as Natal. They are both 3D cameras, but Natal for one, uses to lenses and has different software.

Answer #2: The 3DV-Zcam has always used two lenses, they where just mounted horizontally instead of vertically. As for the software, it is only able to compensate for the hardware so much. Ohh and here is a pic of the orginal 3DV-Zcam:
http://www.engadget.com/pho...

---
Point #3: Natal will not and can not be used with older 360 games with out having to re-optimize them (who would want to do that?).

Answer #3: Well it was MS that promised that Natal would work with the entire library of games. Sony didn't make this promise, but it looks like it might be possible... I said Might so don't miss quote me.

---
Point #4: We will see if M$ knows what they are doing at E3 this year.

Answer #4: Correct again.

.

To jden28
While it is true that Sony got into consoles thanks to Nintendo, Sega's tech was actually better than the N64. The problem was they didn't support it long enough for the platform to catch on.

Ohh and it was Sega who helped get MS into the console business. They worked with them while building the Dreamcast, and XBoxLive was originally intended to be used as the online hub for that console. When the press got wind of the fact that MS was working on a project for a console, they assumed it was for a MS console. MS's eye's lighted up and they saw an opportunity to enter the console market strong. Sega, shortly after MS's announcement of the Xbox, decided to pull the plug on the Dreamcast.

Syronicus3098d ago

Because it's lame. Plain and simple. After seeing the two techs in action, Move trumps Natal. I want to see my current games with motion control tech and Move will do that. The tech demos for Move are simply amazing and as for Natal, hitting big red balls is not my cup of tea and shooting the screen with my fingers is just plain dumb.... Pew, Pew, Pew!

andron6663098d ago

I mean it can't be healthy going around seeing dildos everywhere, it's bound to get you into some kind of trouble. lol

The Natal tech will have limited use in gaming, so I'm glad Sony went went the better option. If your going to have hardcore gaming with motion tech, you need buttons...

ShinRyuHadoken3098d ago

So in other words. Sony says Natal will fail. correct me if I am wrong.

Syronicus3098d ago

No, actually Sony would be the first to boast of Natal's success. Isn't that what we have come to expect from competing companies PR groups?

/Sarcasm

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Inside_out3098d ago

Pretty bad article...Project Natal WILL sell out this holiday season...EVERY kid will want to talk to Milo...plain and simple...This PS3 Fanboy article won't change a thing...The rumored price cut with Natal will cost as much as a stand alone PS3 with no game included...What's Sony gonna do then...Glorified Wii ports are NOT gonna cut it...

Listen, I have a PS3...Sony needs to pick up the pace here...Nobody like's a one horse race...STILL...I own a 360 and a wii...What motivation do I have to buy Move ( terrible name BTW )...EA has said they will port their wii games over...REALLY...they suck to begin with...Sony's been reactive this whole gen...They are losing a fortune just to keep up and now this....Could be a blood bath for PS3 this holiday....

Sony has a huge back log of games that would look great in HD with the Move controller...They need to embrace third party developers and fast...This " only on PS3 " crap is not going to cut it...KZ3 is not enough...How many things can they give away for FREE...this gen practically over.......moving on....

Ju3098d ago

^^^ reading through that comment above, I am missing the /s. Where is it ?

Boody-Bandit3098d ago (Edited 3098d ago )

I am assuming the /s would = sanity since s/ = sarcasm would mean they are joking and unfortunately that isn't the case.

King_of _the_Casuals3098d ago

Nintendo once passed on CD technology made by Sony. (That technology eventually became the PlayStation.) How did that decision turn out for Nintendo?????

FrankenLife3097d ago

Sony passed on Natal because they were interested in gaming. MS is doing Natal because of their PC market. Natal will have a much greater influence on the non-game market than it will on games.

Anon19743097d ago

...I didn't realize that Sony had passed on Natal as well.

barom3097d ago

@BigPappy
@Point #2: the 3DV-Zcam is not the same design as Natal. They are both 3D cameras, but Natal for one, uses to lenses and has different software.

Just going on the fact that Microsoft bought 3DV Systems and announced Natal only a few months later. I have to say you are terribly wrong.

rbrtchng3097d ago (Edited 3097d ago )

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

@5:10 to 5:16

The PS Eye does track depth (back and forth). Notice the box getting bigger and smaller as he moves his head forward and back.

Dee_913097d ago

so the difference between natal and PSeye is it can tell how close up or how far back you are ? I thought PSeye could do that .. well it seems like it when i played creature feature

@ jden28
was that before or after duck hunt for nintendo?

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edwineverready3098d ago

It explains a lot i did not know about move and natal. It also shows that move has more hardcore game potential and is backward compatibility which is going to be a problem with natal. also because they took out the chip in natal latency is going to be a problem. Move has a light on the controller eliminating the room lighting problems natal will have.

IdleLeeSiuLung3098d ago

"also because they took out the chip in natal latency is going to be a problem."

Actually, that couldn't be further from the truth and is a huge misconception that taking out the chip is a bad thing.

Using a chip, your computation power is pretty much limited to whatever the chip can put out.

By using the 360's they can throw a lot more horsepower at the problem by taxing the CPU/GPU on the 360 to reduce the lag in instances where it is needed more. It is a much more flexible system at the cost of reduced graphics. Also updating the software on the 360 is probably much easier than some proprietary chip.

I think it is a great design, reduced manufacturing cost and potentially increased accuracy whenever needed.

Biggest3098d ago

So you're saying taking processor power from the games and using it for the camera is a good thing? That doesn't make a lot of sense.

IdleLeeSiuLung3098d ago (Edited 3098d ago )

Gameplay trumps graphics any time, so yes! I want them to take away from graphics to give the controllers better accuracy because I care about game play, not digital art.

With poor controls, it doesn't matter how great the game is every other aspect is so I would say that makes a lot of sense.

Just my opinion as a real gamer....

Heisenberg3097d ago

to make excuses for them? So it's good that they had to take from column A to make column B work sufficiently? Just because you prioritize gameplay over graphics, doesn't mean it's a good thing that one has to be sacrificed to accommodate the other.

Personally, I like my games to have fun gameplay, AND look great...

Just my opinion as an apparently fake gamer.

IdleLeeSiuLung3097d ago (Edited 3097d ago )

I'm glad you enjoy poor game play mechanics as long as it has great graphics. Perhaps you would enjoy a game where the whole purpose is to look at pretty pictures by pressing a button....

Perhaps you should stop playing games and watch more movies. The "graphics" there are great and beat any game on the market.

You are sacrificing graphics for better controls. Good controls is a requirement for a good let alone a great game. Graphics is NOT!

Heisenberg3097d ago

you shouldn't have to have one or the other. read the post before you respond.

IdleLeeSiuLung3097d ago

That would be in an ideal world where computing resources doesn't cost money. You have to balance the cost of the product with what you are able to offer.

Of course, I would love to have an affordable gazillion core CPU inside Natal, but that isn't very cost effective is it?

So what is your point?

Heisenberg3097d ago

It causes more problems than it solves IMO. I would rather pay more for a better product than pay a little less at the cost of the products potential.

IdleLeeSiuLung3097d ago

I understand, but consumers don't see it that way.

They want an affordable product and by removing the chip the products become affordable while making it not only easier to support the product with software updates, but also potentially give the developer the flexibility to decide how much processing power to dedicate to the controllers. You need more, you get it. You need less, free it up for graphics.

An affordable product means it is more likely adopted by consumers and without adoption it doesn't matter how much potential the product has. Besides people greatly enjoyed the Wii despite its last generation graphics.

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whateva3098d ago

so did Nintendo!

the price wasn't right at the time and it didn't add enough to what they could already do with Eyetoy for the price. but soon it will be cheap enough for the gaming world and that's when sony will add it to the PS4's Eyetoy

ChozenWoan3098d ago

They will just need to upgrade the cam to be 720p at 120fps and it will drastically increase the accuracy and will keep the lag to roughly < 1 frame. I would say it will reduce lag to 0.5 frames, but I expect gen 8 consoles to do 1080p at 120fps native.

ThatCanadianGuy3098d ago

Pew! Pew! P-(flashing red lights)

Zero 0073098d ago

Sony first let him explain him self with stupid Dild** motion controller
copy pest from wii nothing special at all

BTW Sony also Microsoft can support 3D glass only on one update for xbox 360 will can be support 3D glass ** only one update ** lool

ThatCanadianGuy3098d ago

I honestly didn't understand a damn thing you wrote.

awesomeperson3098d ago

Umm 007, whats 3d glass, is it like a sliding glass door thats 3d?

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The Killer3098d ago (Edited 3098d ago )

so basically if u buy Natal then u r directly supporting a terrorist state and the zionist!!!

how so like MS doing such things!! now u believe me why i say MS is a zionist tool??

free your mind from the prison the zionist put almost on half of the humanity: http://www.youtube.com/watc...

MS is evil, zionist, money vampire, greedy and have crap products!! thats why i will never ever buy 360!!!

TheXgamerLive3098d ago (Edited 3098d ago )

First off DOUCHE, you call yourself "THE KILLER" so your never one to give advise on what's good or bad and you use the avatar of a pedo, second Israel is not what you say, they are a nation trying to protect itself only, it's the other nations that surround it that are like you "The Killers" so please shut it, because you know not what you speak.

Foliage3097d ago (Edited 3097d ago )

First off, MJ wasn't a Pedo. It was all a ploy to tarnish his reputation and image. The same intentions were behind portraying him as if he was losing his mind. Do some basic research and stop going off of what CNN tells you. Watch any of the interviews before he mysteriously died because a doctor "screwed up" and killed him. You will find that he is perfectly of mind, and his words make a lot of sense. The man had a huge following and didn't share the same interests and beliefs as the government. That always equals a bad result. See Tu Pac and his ending of the Blood and Cripz feud, and not following every other rapper and preaching hate, drugs, and killing... which is how the government wants these common rappers "from the street" to preach to the common people and suppress any other voice but their own.

As for Israel only defending themselves... you must be a Jew, an America, or a simpleton. Palestine had no choice but to attack because Israel was preventing them from having any basic living standard. They cut off food, medical care and water and left millions of Palestinians on the brink of death. Palestine attacked to open the borders and provide their people a chance at life. Israel attacked to kill and steal, not defend.

Israel is the tail that wags the American dog. The whole world except these two nations see it clearly as it is. You are nothing but a mindless sheep, which is exactly what they want and expect of you.

weazel3097d ago

Before you start lecturing everyone on global politics, I suggest you try and get a fuc*ing clue as to just what you're babbling about. Israel is caught in a catch 22, whereby they are provoking neighbouring states/countries, but then feel aggrieved when there's an inevitable response. This then prompts Israel to provoke neighbouring states/countries, etc, etc, ad infinitum.
All participants in that whole clusterf*ck can legitimately be seen as both victims and aggressors.

Comet3097d ago

Guys, take it easy on Zero 007, he's only a kid...
He still hasn't grown up like the other 90% of 14 year olds on Xbox Live who still go "Pyoo-Pyoo" on little aliens (Halo).

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mirroredderorrim3098d ago (Edited 3098d ago )

When Natal launches, Sony should do the same thing Microsoft did, during a PS3 launch in the EU territories(crapping on the parade)... Have a giant screen rolled up right next to the "launch party", playing the video that Whateva just linked, edited for quality. E.g: picture and sound.

At the end of the video it would read "We passed on this, but try this!"
Insert Kevin Butler and some of his well written jokes, show unfinished games that are in the pipline. :P

Kevin Butler: Are we worried about the competition?
I'll just say... Natatall! XD

beardpapa3098d ago

It's funny you mention this because I remember that EU launch very well with the boat in the river and the massive banner.