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Digital Foundry vs. PlayStation Move

Digital Foundry writes:

"It's been less than 24 hours since I attended the PlayStation Move reveal event at GDC, and I'm gathered in a small conference room of game-makers and press for Sony's presentation to developers.

I'm looking for answers. Yesterday's event established release date, ballpark pricing and bundling options. I got to play a bunch of games too, but many of them were so early in development that accurately gauging the potential of the controller was a tough call. "

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DelbertGrady2870d ago

""When you're going off screen and coming back, the sensors are good enough. The accelerometers and gyroscopes can give you positional data for a time. The problem is that they drift over time. Over short periods of time, they're great. That's why a lot of Wii games use gestures. But for long periods of time we use the camera to correct the data."

What this does mean, however, is that all Move games require calibration, a system that isn't required on the more pick-up-and-play Wii. According to the Sony team, you simply stand (or sit) in front of the camera, press a button once and that's it. But last night, calibration proved to be far more intrusive.

As I stood in line to get a go on Motion Fighter, the girl playing was having a torrid time getting her gestures recognised. Calibration was blamed and the system was reset. Playing Move Party, a ceiling spotlight appeared to be causing some recognition issues during one gameplay session, again necessitating a recalibration."

Doesn't sound overly convincing.

Darkeyes2870d ago

It's called pre alpha for a reason and I have heard from various sources that the fighting game is only 20% complete which leaves space for improvement... The only thing I got from the article is that even DF are convinced that the thing has great potential and near 1:1 tracking... The part that impressed me the most was...

"You can see the jitter, but the jitter's in my hand," Mikhailov explains. "I have a tripod here. Check this out. If I stabilise myself on the tripod, I can get rid of the jitter. It's in my hand. It's not system jitter. It's not some kind of noise. If you want to make a really accurate shooting game, you keep the jitter in because you want the players to get better at shooting."... See that really impresses me if it can actually track things such efficiently.

It's all about potential and Sony just showed it.... If the thing has so much potential (They even played STARCRAFT 2 with it!!!), then Sony First Party are bound to take advantage of it.. 6 months to go and the thing is even more precise than any other motion control device which means it's great news for Sony.

Strange_Evil2870d ago

What actually impressed me even more was this:

"The data coming out of this thing is very good so as a developer you don't have to worry about doing much processing on top of it," says Anton Mikhailov. "The libraries we provide are all on SPU so the memory and processor usage is very low. We track up to four controllers in under a frame time on one SPU. The memory requirements are under two megabytes. We've worked this into current titles without any real issue."

Firstly, that clearly states that most of the previous games are gonna be patched if they can to be Move compatible which is great news. Secondly, it clearly shows how less MOVE hogs the resources whereas Natal nearly takes 20-30% of 360 power and 2MB is nothing lol, Sony can actually take 2MB out if they optimize the XBM OS which means Sony can create games as good looking as current PS3 catalog and not compromise getting Move to work on it.

Sony should aggressively market the following 2 points cause those really have an edge over Natal. Together with 3D and 1:1 tracking, it can be a huge thing that differentiates the PS3 and 360.

callahan092870d ago

Or you could choose to focus on the positive aspects of the write-up. How about this one?

"The next part of the demonstration is exceptionally cool. A puppet is created on-screen that is accurately mimicking Mikhailov's movements. By using a combination of inputs from the Move controllers, combined with head-tracking and what must be some level of interpolation, the demo is entering Project Natal territory. Move is seemingly tracking the entire upper body. Um, wow.

"If you want to do the full body tracking like Natal, you can still do this with the camera," Mikhailov says. "It's all very low latency, one-to-one tracking. We had a fighting game on show based on gesture moves [Motion Fighters]. A lot of people don't want to use gesture moves. You don't have to. It's just a game design choice." "

Klipz-Wish2870d ago

I like how out of the whole article you highlight the worst part. You must have read the whole article filled with positives to find that part so keep living in denial. Also considering the fact that your most likely going to be playing in the same spot most of the time im pretty sure calibrating wont be an issue.

Information Minister2870d ago (Edited 2870d ago )

Really Soda? You're not convinced by Playstation hardware? What a shocker! And here I thought Xbox fanboys were all about motion controls these days. /s

@ 1.6 - I see Microsoft's brainwashing worked wonders with you. I'll try to knock some sense into you. Let me put it this way: Natal and Move are exactly the same kind of crap. You might still be holding a piece of plastic on your hand or not, but at the end of the day you're just waving your arms around like a fool. And what this means is a shift in developer focus towards casual and party games, were the real money is (thanks Nintendo!) and less financing for hardcore projects, leaving hardcore gamers with nothing but sequels and a barrage of FPSs. No new IPs. Get it now?

Bubbles_Kitty_Cat2870d ago

I am fairly certain that "Move" will turn out to be a failed gimmick, in much the same way that the "Sixaxis" failed.
It's pretty clear that it is just Sony's attempt to keep up with current trends, and not something that they are truly passionate about.

Natal on the other hand looks like it will be a real beast, with massive developer support and full backing from Microsoft.

Time will tell, but my money is on Natal.

zeeshan2870d ago

@Soda: Read this and you might feel more convinced

"But I know how good Sony's R&D teams are, I've read up on the underlying tech, and with the right concept and execution this should stand alongside the technological innovation found in Project Natal and in terms of certain, crucial applications, it could indeed surpass it. "

zeeshan2870d ago

And this is where SONY nails the whole NATAL concept. They are using their experiences that they have learned from EyeToy and clearly are moving towards the right direction.

"If you want to do the full body tracking like Natal, you can still do this with the camera," Mikhailov says. "It's all very low latency, one-to-one tracking. We had a fighting game on show based on gesture moves [Motion Fighters]. A lot of people don't want to use gesture moves. You don't have to. It's just a game design choice."

Mikhailov's views on full body motion processing as seen in Natal are intriguing and are difficult to argue with. While Microsoft's controller can scan the entire body well, the bottom line is that a hell of a lot of crucial control information comes from our fingers. Factoring them out is a big gamble to take on something as important as a controller.

"Buttons are important. No system right now can track hands reliably," Mikhailov says in pointed reference to Project Natal. "There's just not the resolution in the cameras, there's not the processing in the current chips. Really, it's many years out before you can do awesome full body-tracking.

"You can do something pretty rough with 3D cameras but you just can't do something with this level of precision. If you want a deeper gameplay experience, you're going to need to have this kind of low-level precision. The biggest thing we learned from EyeToy... if you don't have buttons you can do lots of games but they lack depth.""

Biggest2870d ago

"Natal on the other hand looks like it will be a real beast, with massive developer support and full backing from Microsoft."

Developers like. . . Bungie? I heard Halo Party was in the beta stage.

HighDefinition2870d ago

How in the hell did 6axis fail??? It gets used constantly as a extra button/function and used well at that.

The only thing that fails is you son.

andron6662870d ago

The most crucial thing is the last line:

"The thinking is there, the hardware is there. Now it's just a case of getting the games right."

Sony have the chanse to learn from Nintendo's Wii mistakes and deliver more complex games than MS's Natal. If they can do that, they are onto a winner...

gaffyh2870d ago

For once this is a pretty damn good article, goes very in-depth an proves that the PSEye can do most of what Natal claims to do, as well as everything the Wii can do and better.

Sounds promising for Move, looks like there are a few issues here and there. Now show some more core games and I'll buy more than one (my nephew saw Eyepet with the Move and he wants it right now, pretty difficult to explain to him that it's not out yet).

Christopher2870d ago

That's a really f'n good read.

I especially like how Sony comes out and says that the fighting game that people were complaining about was a gesture-based game and was designed that way on purpose. It wasn't lag, it was like all other fighting games where instead of pressing a button you'd emote an action to get the computer to throw a pre-programmed punch.

I'm also glad he took the time to grill Sony on their games and implementation. While I think some 'casual' pre-programmed games are needed, it's definitely apparent that Sony is rushing out some copies from the Wii rather than really innovating on them for release (Motion Fighter, Bowling).

@Soda: Sorry, but welcome to ignore after months of giving you a chance to grow up. This article does a great job of focusing on the bad and the good and leaves the fanboy crap at the door. But, regardless, you seem to want to keep it right there, and rather than fighting for improvements on all consoles, you want to make a certain console always look the inferior and lacking.

MNicholas2870d ago

Motion controllers are very difficult to get right.

Who can forget the embarrassing "Bam" Natal demo:

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Even with an entire SPU dedicated to Move processing there are simply so many variables that I have to reserve judgement until I try it out myself.

JustTheFactsMr2870d ago

Which part. That it doesn't drift out of alignment during your game like the Wii does.

Or the part you left out. The EXTRA calibration for the fighting game was because each person has different arm lengths. Natal will obviously be worse on the front since it HAS to scan your entire body to even start.

"When I spoke with Kudo Tsunoda at gamescom last year, I was surprised that you couldn't point with Project Natal"

Natal you can't even point? LMAO. Yeah who needs to point during games. LOL. Nothing but mini-games shovelware coming to the nearest Natal. Now I understand why the only demo we have seen is people slapping large balls with no precision. The Amiga was doing that more 25 years ago. LMAO.

Move can be integrated with 3D. 360 not so much.

shadow27972870d ago

"When I spoke with Kudo Tsunoda at gamescom last year, I was surprised that you couldn't point with Project Natal."

See, I can do it too. But how do you play shooters if you can't point? Good question, I have no idea.

Anyway...

"I've spoken to the SOCOM team and they've had troubles because the motion control people sometimes really kick the ass of the DualShock people. It's unfair," he says. "They're having balancing issues and stuff. Some people are really good with the motion controller and some people are really good with the DualShock. Some players work better on some devices and that's cool."

And..

"It's a testament to how robust this interface is for even the more hardcore game. It's so intuitive that some developers have hooked this up to Maya for modelling, and they actually prefer it over a mouse. You can have camera control in one hand and object control with another hand. You can do some really neat interface stuff."

These two quotes illustrate the potential for Move. Not only is it better than a traditional controller for shooters (hardcore motion control!), some people prefer it to a MOUSE! Gimmick? Really? I'm not all for motion controls, but if you're going to do them, do them right. And, for the most part, it seems like Sony has.

Mr Logic2870d ago

We all know by now that GT5 is going to support 3D gaming. We also know that it will support head tracking. I wonder if it's possible that GT5 will support 3D without glasses, but rather with head tracking, similar to this. http://www.youtube.com/watc...

That would be awesome, because I wouldn't need a new TV lol.

zeeshan2870d ago

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Hahahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!! EPIC FAIL!

ChozenWoan2870d ago

This would be a better example... no headgear needed:
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

ohh and this is a more recent demo:
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Mr Logic2870d ago

Absolutely! I'm sorry for the confusion. I don't want any head gear. I meant for it to work like that. I was just providing that video as a reference for people that didn't know the benefit of head tracking for 3D effects.

baum2870d ago

What a shock! Nobody could have guessed where your "money" would be on by looking at your comment history! /s

nikoado2870d ago (Edited 2870d ago )

I prefer this "BAM there it is video"

I love the randomness of it.
:)

ChozenWoan2870d ago

Np

You might want to bookmark it as the link will come in handy repeatedly here on N4G. There is a lot of misinformation running around here and we have to do our part to spread the facts.

+ Show (21) more repliesLast reply 2870d ago
Bubbles_Kitty_Cat2870d ago (Edited 2870d ago )

Oops, posted "1.6" down here by mistake.

Here is a picture for your trouble...

Darkeyes2870d ago

"PlayStation Eye can identify individuals based on their facial characteristics. It does this by recognising characteristics like face contours, the position of the eyes, nose, mouth and eyebrows in real-time," he reveals. "It can determine the degree of smiling, the gender, the age. It doesn't give a numeric age - fortunately! It can tell if you're a child or an adult. It can detect whether your eyes are open or closed.

"We have a head-tracking library - we can detect the position of the head even if your back is turned. With the head-tracking you can do viewpoint transformation. If you're playing a driving game or a flying game you can change the view based on which way the head is pointing. If you're playing a stealth game you can look around the corner."

The next part of the demonstration is exceptionally cool. A puppet is created on-screen that is accurately mimicking Mikhailov's movements. By using a combination of inputs from the Move controllers, combined with head-tracking and what must be some level of interpolation, the demo is entering Project Natal territory. Move is seemingly tracking the entire upper body. Um, wow.

"If you want to do the full body tracking like Natal, you can still do this with the camera," Mikhailov says. "It's all very low latency, one-to-one tracking. We had a fighting game on show based on gesture moves [Motion Fighters]. A lot of people don't want to use gesture moves. You don't have to. It's just a game design choice."

That is all I have to say... PS EYE=Natal+Physical Interaction.. Lets see M$ show up at E3 and showcase a TPS or FPS played with Natal and then we will talk.

avengers19782870d ago

better get yours reserved, I know I'm going to get one, I was pretty impressed with there demo overall.
And at least it has functionality with actual games, and that could be playstation's biggest selling point.

Unbornkirkster192870d ago

Move is shaping up to be very promising.

MK_Red2870d ago

I really think Sony should have avoided showing most of the games in their current state. A lot of them very in very early stages of developement and had considerable amount of lag. If the whole point and advantage of Move compared to Wii MP and Natal is its minimal lag, then why Sony had only ONE game where lag was less than Wii or Natal?

sinncross2870d ago

I disagree.

You make it seem like GDC was a massive software reveal for the PS Move. That is what E3 will be about. GDC just allowed Sony to announce the basics of the controller and to demonstrate to other developers and consumers how the tech works.
They accomplished this, as evident by the article where the author states that hardware is not the problem with the PS Move.

On hindsight, better developed demo would have been the way to go but each demo had a particular purpose to convey about the controller. Such as 'augmented reality' with Move Party and the ability for the controller to be used in traditional game types such as Socom4.

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