Should Microsoft & Sony Be Embarrassed?

" I think we would have been embarrassed to do what our competitors are currently doing." Reggie Fils-Aime was quoted when asked about what he thought of the new motion controlled offerings coming later this year from Sony and Microsoft. But should Microsoft and Sony be embarrassed by their upcoming products?

[Dance]

MS and Sony have reached a new low

[WildArmed]

I dont see why they should be..
PSone was the first console with CDs (or was it Sega?)

Anyways, the competitors DONT need to be embrassed that DVD/CD became the dominant media for gaming.

Should Sony and Nintendo be embrassed for trying to imitate the sucess of Xbox Live?
No. It happened.

Should MS be embrassed for copying dual analog sticks?
no, they work great.

Ofc, this is just my opinion.

Should consoles be embrassed that they are PC knock offs? no lol

[bioshock1221]

Why would they be embarassed everyone copies off from each other. But if you are gonna do it then the key is to make your product better which both are doing.

[-Alpha]

And bioshock, I agree completely.

People make the following assumptions:

-Innovation = Success/Greatness
-Copying= Bad/Failure

To the first one, though innovation is great it's also not needed to succeed or offer a great product.

For the second one, people have always copied and shared ideas. That's how the world works: People borrow ideas-- they key is expanding and building on them and that is what Natal and Move does.

The only real people who have a problem with any of this are fanboys who can't appreciate gaming and who have to try stunting and looking down upon ideas. Yeah, Move is a direct copy of the Wii, and Natal is a direct copy off of EyeToy, but they are both offering a substantial upgrade to older technology.

[Christopher]

Will he say the same thing when they put out a Wii HD, then?

I didn't see any complaints like this with WoW, which copied from every single other MMO out there and has still not done anything innovative.

Buttons and #of analog sticks + d-pad on the 360 controller?

Seriously, everyone copies everyone, including nintendo.

[HighDefinition]

Not a HUGE fan of motion controls, but I see it like this.....

Nintendo dropped the ball and Sonys getting ready to run w/ it.

This is what the Wii controller should`ve been like and the Wii should be a HD system.

[Darkstorn]

@1.3-
True. From a software perspective, Uncharted 2 didn't innovate, but it mixed and refined genre norms into near perfection, and was duly rewarded.

I still think innovation should be given more credit than flat-out copying, but both are perfectly acceptable approaches to making games and hardware. The Wii innovated, but it didn't do it that well.

[young juice]

microsoft and sony have NOTHING to be embarressed about.

just because they use motion control? thats the stupidest thing i have heard in about a week.

should samsung, sprint, or any other company be embarressed after they tried to copy the success of the iphone? hell no

its called innovation and all 3 company's have a role to play, so that the next gen can learn from this gens mistakes. just like how im sure the xbox 720 will have blu-ray. its not like they have a choice.

technology evolves and 20 years from now when motion control has been long perfected, people are gonna look back at the 7th gen and say ..."damn"........yea h just like how we look at the snes and say " pffft cavemen".

[Silver360]

that gave the wii it's numbers. It cost $250 when the PS3 cost $600 and the 360 cost $500. Easy to build momentum when you are the cheapest new console out there. Even now with all the millions that Sony and MS have sold there real system are still not at $250. Talk innovation all you want I say price came first then a fad started.

[Daishi]

The thing that sold the Wii was the fact that it had better graphics than the PS2 (which was what most people were upgrading from) and like the comment above, it was cheaper.

[harrisk954]

for putting out a system that pushes shovelware?

for putting out a system that alienated its core audience?

for not developing new IPs and relying almost exclusively on IPs that (while great) have been around for 20 years?

[HolyOrangeCows]

Embarrassed for being a business and addressing demand?

[kwicksandz]

@ skv 3d0, jaguar cd, sega cd all came before psone

And this has been a generation of copying featuresets. Achievements - trophys, guide button - ps button in game dash - In game xmb, avatars -miis - home avatars etc

Clearly MS and Sony have no issues copying features from their competitors

[Bubble Buddy]

Until the Wii gets some good games like the PS3 and 360, they shouldn't talk. Haven't touched the Wii in months. I don't even remember the last Wii game that was amazing?

[beans]

Nintendo completely turned there back on the hardcore which is just sad. When you think about it all they really did was just go for the money by re-casing the gamecube and giving it motion controls. I'm thankful for what Sony and MS have done for the gamer which is why there motion controls will earn much more respect in my book.

[IdleLeeSiuLung]

Nothing is more embarrassing than badly managing your company and not pursuing profitable ventures!

That's why I never see anything wrong with copying and improving because it helps keep competition going and is good for both consumers and shareholders.

Why should anyone be embarrassed other than saying "you should be embarrassed for venturing into potentially profitable business"!!!???

[Neo604]

broke ass consoles GTFO here.

bu bu bu teh salessss!!!!!!!!

[pixelsword]

The Wii's graphics have been done before; like as in LAST GEN.

[Viper7]

No, since this is competition. Maybe having Sony and Microsoft show their own share in motion controls will force Nintendo to try harder. Wiimote is just a controller, and controller alone can only do so little. Maybe Nintendo is just afraid that Sony and Microsoft will force them to do something instead of just sitting around.

Just look at them, they take ages to release new (often outdated) games to an outdated system while Sony constantly releases new games around all genres. X360 might not be so big on the side of 1st/2nd party devs but constant flow of new multiplatform and steady phase of exclusives keep the users entertained.

So by all means Sony and Microsoft, show us how much better games/software you can make for these new controllers. Not just casual games but HC as well. And Nintendo, show us how much you actually care about keeping the motion control superiority instead of whining when competitors invade your own territory and possibly overtake them.

[badz149]

why? Nintendo owns the Wii but motion controls are for everybody! it's not even 'exclusive' to begin with! they just implement it out front compared to their competitors and it paid off for them! but to say that other people should be embarrassed for imitating? that's kinda ignorant! Nintendo was not even the 1st to implement motion control and now Reggie is trying to convince people that motion controls are Nintendo's? yeah, what ever makes you sleep better at night, Reggie boy!

[Mini Mario]

Yes everybody copies each other. George lucas loves the fact that everyone copied indiana jones.

The point is that both sony and MS told everyone how much they thought motion sensing was a big waste of time.

Almost every sony/MS fanboy said the same. Now its ok>>> ?

That's the problem. The hyprocritical comments coming from both of those companies and fanboys.

[Mini Mario]

"Until the Wii gets some good games like the PS3 and 360, they shouldn't talk. Haven't touched the Wii in months. I don't even remember the last Wii game that was amazing? "

Ahh tatsunoko vs capcom? ..monster hunter...punh out...mario bros wii??...HOD overkill? to name a very few in a long list..

hmm gee Your right..no games at all!

/sarcasim lol

[Bubble Buddy]

Maybe I should rephrase that; games that I find interesting. I hate any game with Mario in the title. I want games like No More Heroes, and I'm still waiting for a great lightsaber game that I doubt will ever come. Hopefully Lucas Arts can think of one on the Move.

[siyrobbo]

sega had motion technology on home consoles before nintendo

they just limited it to a fishing rod on the dreamcast

imagine how different things would have been if they had just thought about the technology they had

[N4g_null]

So ps3 fanboys copying is fine now huh? So ms buying out your exclusives was ok? The silly hd DVD vs blu Ray was ok? So I guess it's ok for ms to make a ps3 dual shock 3 rip off now.

The double standards will be the death of Sony. For 3 years they called the wii a toy now they have the controls of a toy. No force detection no hapitic feed back just the same thing for what looks like more money.
Sony follow ms put them in thrid. Sony copying nintendo with out any real improvment maybe their undoing. We are looking a 2 to 3 years before their sdk catches up with nintendo.

Also talk about turning your back, I hope Sony doesn't expect those games to sell to people who hate motion gaming. I hope they have a plan that can support both. When is sony's fitness game coming out. I hope they don't believe the laspe gamers and expanded gamers are going to rebuy more expensive replacments.

Sure the ps3 diehards will love it but who else. This whole thing reeks of investors pushing Sony rather than Sony having a real vision. Could this be sony's n64, 32x maybe. Even if you hate the Sony move you better buy it or you can for get about AAA effort and hd motion control appearing in the same game.

[Immortal321]

you should had a copyright for the motion controls. Nintendo you should be embarrass. Sony should be embarrass with the eye toy.

[FanboyAttack]

Sony should! the Move is a direct ripoff of the Wii controller.

[morganfell]

Know any company that ripped off Miis? And the 360 controller is a ripoff of the Dual Shock.

[Parapraxis]

"he Move is a direct ripoff of the Wii controller. "
Yes it is, if you completely ignore how it much better than what the Wii offers technically.
(if you want an explanation of why Sony's Move is vastly better than the Wiimote & Nunchuck..you've already failed)

[HighDefinition]

It`s what the Wii control SHOULD be like.

[Darkfocus]

like natals not a rip off of anything "Cough" eyetoy "Cough"

[Rocket Sauce]

Sony should be commended for taking the Wii remote and making it look even more like a dildo.

[fear88]

http://www.joystiq.com/2005...

Move has been in development for 8 years.

Compare that to tacked on waggle on a last gen system with shovelware.

No comparison

[pixelsword]

like someone quoted in the article you posted;

[Not only did Sony steal Nintendo's innovative idea, they used a time machine in an attempt to patent in 11 months (before the Nintendo announcement).

This is just like them to try something so diabolical!!!

Bad Sony, bad!]

Move was actually for the PS2, now that's news.

[N4g_null]

The problem with a rip off is you can only immate the oringinal. The name brand of the wii is know for motion gaming. Also this tech is on par with motion plus. Keep believeing that and you will end up being suckered some $100 later.

Hey but people learn best when they see things first hand. Lol if coded correctly the natal can be good also but who wants to pay for maybes this could end up being like the cell all over again.

That brings up another point is it getting harder to be a console dev or what.

[Eamon]

LOL at pixelsword's comment. Bubbles!

BTW, morganfell, your reply was suuuuch a generic fanboy response. Why did you feel the urge to mention the 360 when someone made a comment about PS3 and Wii. Paranoia? Insecurity? Or do you just have no life?

In terms of tech, Sony's Move peripheral has not copied Nintendo's Wii Remote.
But in terms of design and how the controller appears. Yes, they did copy. Move almost resembles a black wiimote with a bulb on it. And the Sub controller resembles a wireless nunchuck.

I've tried to convince myself the past couple of months that motion gaming is a gimmick but Natal and Move have are quite appealing in terms of Game Design possibilities. Natal with its full body motion and facial expression capture. Move with its pinpoint accuracy and sensitivity (Basically what the Wii should have been).

Can't wait for e3 2010!

[Natsu X FairyTail]

Depends though. IF I make a product who looks like something on the market and actually works alot better than I dont see why they should be ashamed.

but if you make the same thing but suck at it. Yeah they should

[Lou Ferrigno]

good stuff man,probably the only good post ive ever read from you or seen you post.

its all good though natsu,i agree with your comment 100%

even if the product LOOKs EXACTLY the same, but ultimately PERFORMS better then no ashamedment should be taken..
its that simple.

[Parapraxis]

I agree Natsu, and I think you're right when you say Sony's Move succeeds (in so many words)
Natal on the other hand, well it's vaporware, plain and simple.
Natal has not proven itself in any fashion and any feedback that has hit the internet has been very negative.

In it's current state MS will scrap NATAL before it's launched.
within the next month they will start reducing the media for it.
By June 1st it will no longer be talked about.
It was a bold idea indeed from MS, but one that was destined to fail.
The only way to save NATAL would be for MS to introduce motion controllers, but I honestly think they are to proud.
It will be another Windows ME and it will be buried as fast as possible.

[math]

Very True

[GR8 1]

Microsoft has nothing to be Embarrassed about because Natal is completely different from Wii in any form what so ever Natal is pure innovation nothing like this exist is in the Market.

Sony should be Embarrassed because it's a complete copy cat of the Wii in desperation Sony hopes they can get some of the Wii crowd to adopt their Motion Controller which won't happen.

Face it Sony your permanently stuck in 3RD Place this Gen.

[MGOelite]

how is natal pure innovation lol the eye toy is like a decade old you idiot

[MGOelite]

natal = souped up eyetoy

Sony move = souped up wii mote

[Tito08]

I'm not into that motion sensing thing, but Sony has both the Wiimote & Natal in one, all I'm insterested in Natal is navigating on the Xbox dashboard, so I wouldn't need to worry about picking up the controller, but the rest, not insterested at all.... That controller might be a copy of the Wii, but I think it'll b better!!!!

[Marty8370]

LAGTAL is different cos it's the one that has problems working, while both Wiimotion+ & MOVE work.

Jump Out, Play B3yond

[awesomeperson]

Yep, your metal gear rising.

Anyway, how is Natal unlike nothing on the market now? Its just an upgraded eyetoy.

Seen what happened behind the scenes at GDC, Natal couldn't recognize some ones shape because they were wearing black! When Milo tried to draw a cat he drew the guys logo on his shirt. Thats pathetic.

You should be embarrassed for your love of Natal.

[gtamike123]

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[PLASTICA-MAN]

Not only those two videos you post are the ones who debunk teh Natal, there is also another well done video with other features:
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Add it with your arguments next time!
There are many others but anyway, it's enough !
Cheers ;)

[Trebius]

They havent seen what the rest of us real gamers have seen.

Natal is old tech repackaged and advertised as new Tech.

[mxrider2]

just they are blind i grew up with super nintendo n64 ps1 ps2 and original xbox they just dont know anything cause they are blind by MS b/c they were probably brought up somewhere where their parents hate every other country and think america is the best (which it is) but there is no reason to hate other countries and in return they hate other companies that arent american
edit: if that didnt make sense the summary is they are blind b/c they hate everything not american

[halojunkie]

they didnt make bluray 4 360 and its inferior

[FanboyAttack]

Untrue! I personally dont mind disk swapping. Its clear that both platforms can offer great graphics with the current hardware capabilities. BR isn't gonna matter for a long time. And by the time that it does. You'll be downloading those games. Instead of buying disks.

[WildArmed]

Well I'm pretty sure Blu-ray matters and it's been proven so. All these great games coming out show so.

But does that make the 360 games any worse? no. 360 games are just as great. DVD works too.

Does it matter ALOT? No.
But does it matter? Yes, clearly.

[KiraxYamato]

Look at Final Fantasy XIII, It need 3 disc, compressed audio, and graphic is reduced to 576p? while PS3 went 1 disc, uncompressed audio, and full 720p of cut-scenes and game-play.

[Anorexorcist]

True. That is so true, yet the pathetic disagrees to sensible comments like yours and halojunkie's will continue to rack up.

To all the perpetual idiot disagreers on N4G: sleep well tonight kids!

[Tito08]

Rockstar were the first ones to mention they had a problem with the DVD for GTA4, now they seem to experience the same thing with L.A. Noire, Capcom also with removing some LP2 content, Square with Final Fantasy, despite being 3 discs...ME2 you're playing disc 2 and at some point you have to go back to disc one.... They had a very big chance of implementing HD-DVD on the system, they stabbed Toshiba in the back by saying they prefered downloadable movies over HD-DVD despite having the add on.... Why do you think Microsoft were the ones that brought the idea about DLCs, that's why they chose DVD over HD-DVD... But in the case of Halo ODST, wich was supposed to be a DLC for Halo 3, is sold at a full price, come on, and they added another disc in the for of a 3 year old online mode to make ppl believe the price is right!!!!!!

[JackBNimble]

Wouldn't the problem be solved if you could install the game on to the HDD? It shouldn't matter then how many discs the game is, should it?

Times have changed it ain't 2005 any more I think MS should rethink things.

[hatchimatchi]

funny how userthree talks about how blu ray doesn't matter right now and that we'll be downloading games soon.

you realize that the 360 is the only console on the market that is available without a hdd...

[greatjimbo78]

Wait, What! The Wii has a HDD? How big? And how come me, and everyone else on Gods green earth doesn't know this as well.

[Subzero200x]

Of course they are losing to the wii an underpowered system, and if that proves nobody wants gimmicks like bluray or hd then i don't know.

"Depends though. IF I make a product who looks like something on the market and actually works alot better"

works better?? it looks lot worse then when the wii came out, and i never thought that could be possible till now.

[math]

HD id a gimmick? Lol Whut!

[Biggest]

Subzero200x might just be the craziest person in this thread.

[GiantEnemyCrab]

If MS and Sony are embarrassed then Nintendo is worried.

Shouldn't this guy be yelling at his distribution channels instead of ranting about the 360 and PS3 which one kiked your arse last month and didn't need everyone's grandma and 4 year old to do it.

[Fierce Musashi]

Hell yeah, especially Sony. They were calling motion controls a gimmick and everything, and now we have the Move.

That's business I guess.

[WildArmed]

lol..
Remember how Dualshock (viberation) was last gen? xD

It's funny how stuff goes around..

[Hotel_Moscow]

hmm what about motion controls

[WildArmed]

lol exactly. What goes around comes around.

[Kamikaze135]

Isn't Natal a complete copy and paste of Sony's PS Eye?

[infamousinfolite]

Yesbut the fanboys don't want to admit that next you see is that they'll say "Ps2 eyetoy is a copy of natal"....

[Marty8370]

LAGTAL is like 10x worst than the original Eyetoy.

Least Eyetoy worked. lol

[n4gn4gn4gn4g]

well before the Wii came along.

EyeTOY says hi 8itches.

We also have plenty of evidence that SONY was working on MOVE tech as far back as 2004 (see youtube).

And before Nin gets it in their head to call out other companies...maybe the should explain how they directly ripped off the XaviX

[N4g_null]

It's funny how you bring up eyetoy. Did you buy one. If so you are a sucker if you didn't then why are you so confitent this will do better?

Yet if this succeeds you can forget about hardcore games for a while. You can not copy nintendo halfway and to the audience you made hate motion controls.

The total reversal of Sony fans makes them worst than sheep. Sony will not be able to improve till critics can be heard. It's when people like me stop commenting that Sony has completely lost.

Another thing is what does the expanded group think? When we see this on talk shows? I wonder if we will see people stutter when they here the price. On top of it all does it play Mario?
Boy this is getting good. It's too bad I'm on the road lol.

[Shoko]

Yes, they should.

Long answer:

Yes, they should be embarrassed because this whole time they've been dissing the Wii, calling it a novelty system, a toy, a gimmick, etc. They've said this whole time that motion control is gay, but now they want to go and copy this so-called "novelty system"? Hypocritical.

If you disagree than you are nothing more than a fanboy.

[n4gn4gn4gn4g]

to an article (legit) where any rep from SONY or MS said that motion control was 'gay'.

[Shoko]

I say all of that but the only thing you can bother is when I said they called it gay. Lol. Of course they didn't actually say that. Professionals don't use that kind of terminology. It's obvious that I was saying that it was implied. I thought you people would be smart enough to figure that out yourselves, but I guess I give you too much credit.

[poe]

This is N4G everything you say can and will be used against you in the court of N4G.

[n4gn4gn4gn4g]

called the Wii a novelty yet completely leave out the context of that statement:

Here’s the quote he gave to the Wall Street Journal: "We feel very confident that the PlayStation fan is going to wait until they can get a PlayStation 3," he told the Wall Street Journal. "If they do pick up a Wii, it's as more of a novelty."

As you can see...he is specifically talking about PlayStation fans exploring the Wii as a novelty...not that the Wii ITSELF is a novelty.

[Biggest]

But let's not kid ourselves. It is a novelty. The Wii is like a bottle of bubbles. No one can resist blowing and popping a few bubbles. And no one wants to do it every day.

[Mini Mario]

Dont worry about those disagreeing fanboys. They really are blind. Its beyond belief that they think sony or MS have never dissed the wii.

It's an absoloute joke on their part and the fanboys in these forums.

[phantomshadow]

Meh. So, MS and Sony are tapping into the market that the Wii has in order to make more money... so why should they be embarrased? If anything, Nintendo should be worried to a certain degree if the montion controlls are the same (or better) with HD graphics on the PS3/X360. Something people have been screaming for is a Wii HD with high rez graphics and more storage. Now, people can turn to the PS3 or Xbox to get that, leaving the Wii behind.

[branvj]

Sony fanboys do not get it from a realistic standpoint. For example, if you look at the top selling 40 wii games, you would see that 23 of them are made by nintendo. Nintendo wii will still hold strong in the market especially since nintendo themselves are half there selling power. These people can say they milk their franchises all they want, but the fact is that they sell like crack and mario, metroid, and zelda are constantly getting good ratings as your hardcore games.

[foxxy]

Embarrassed for what they are both doing good whack article.

[JonnyBigBoss]

Why? They are realizing that casuals are enjoying motion controls a lot. Why not help out the consumer by allowing them to own 1 console instead of 2? I think motion controls are brilliant for a full-rounded entertainment experience.

[Fierce Musashi]

If they can ever hope to compete with the Wii in grasping the broader audience, they will have to give their consoles a price cut as well as bundle the motion controllers all squeezed into a price that challenges the Wii.

Otherwise, they are just regular add-ons. Remember the Eyetoy.

edit: disagree, yet lack of reply. interesting. lmfao WHERE'S THE BEEF?

[JackBNimble]

I disagree. The wii is underpowerd , stuck half way between last gen and this gen. Why do you think the wii has always been the cheapest (and I mean that in every sense of the word) console on the market.

Why would anyone think that sony should cut the price and bundle it with the MOVE? The ps3 is a far superior console , I wont give you the list because you know I'm right.

[Fierce Musashi]

I don't think you understand, the broader audience/casuals/non-gamer don't care for power. Power ment nothing in the previous when it came to the top selling console. In fact, it seem the weakest consoles are always on top.

If you started gaming and were just looking for a machine to pick up and play, would you buy a high price console as well as the motion add-ons or the more accessible console at a far lower price? I hope now you understand.

[JackBNimble]

I'm sure there are tons of wii owners who also own a PS3 or would like one, heck I'm a wii owner but I bought it for my kids .Funny thing though, they would rather play the PS3.

[Fierce Musashi]

I own a ps3 as well s a Wii too, but that's not my point.

The Wii's controls are simple, easy to understand (for most games anyway). The Move is basically the same thing. Only here is the thing: one comes with the console as a primary controller and comes with a game at a lower price, while the other is an add-on to a more pricey console.

You see, these simple motion controls is what gets the eye of the casual/non-gamer broader audience. Keep in mind, they don't care for power if all they are looking for is a simle gaming experence. When it comes down to it, the Wii is the way to go for them when prices start getting compared. Why pay extra for pretty much the exact same experence?

If (IF) Sony is indeed trying to steal the Wii's thunder then they are going to have to give the PS3 a price cut as well as bundle the controller and a game or two in order to compete, considering that the controller (to my knowing) is sold seprately.

[SilverSlug]

Microsoft laughed at the thought of Motion played games.

How things change.

[PS360PCROCKS]

Ok so Apple should be embarrassed for making a PC after Microsoft? MP3 companies should be embarrassed for copying Apple Ipods. Really? Not everyone can be the first to invent something. Choices drive the market, Nintendo gives you one choice which is movement based games. Sony shouldn't be embarrassed for giving me the option one day to play GOW III and the next play a motion game. Lame.

[math]

MS stole the idea from apple in the 1st place

[palaeomerus]

'Graphic Environment Mode' was developed at a Xerox tehcnology lab in Palo Alto California and both MS and Apple stole THAT.

[nogolis]

Not at all. From what we've played the past two days of being at GDC things seem like they always have been. So Sony has a new motion set up, as does Microsoft. It won't affect how you choose to game.

We've talked up and down and around and around with these guys and my biggest question was --

"Is this going to overshadow standard game development for the hardcore? Is this going to be something where you have this new device you're trying to push and now the Dual Shock is no longer viable to your bottom line?"

The response --

"Absolutely not. We cannot forget about the core gamer that puts us on the map but at the same time we don't wanna leave anyone else out. That's why this is here (holds up MOVE). This is here to give, not just the casuals, a new experience, but the hardcore aswell. If you don't like it there is an alternative we've stuck to for nearly 15 years now. (points out dualshock)."

I'm ok with the new set ups from Microsoft and Sony... Do either of them work well? Well, not enough to change how I myself play daily but these things are both early. Natal was so off it wasn't even worth toying with. I don't discredit it, though. I'm sure they'll work those kinks out eventually. As for "MOVE" I'm not moved or sold on it yet... I like it about as much as I do the Wiimote. It might be something to have around for that special game or maybe even to go back and game on a game you already love. You know, just to see how it works. But as a whole, and everyone I've spoken with outside the actual business end agrees... Motion Controls aren't the next step as displayed here this week.

There are a ton of new games that will support it, though. Some of them look very promising. Some of them look very weak. It's no different than standard gaming, guys. They're both going to have their ups and downs.

[TehSuperCell]

I think Sony should be embarassed of its wiimote ripoff.
Ask any Wii gamer, even a child, and they will call the "MOVE" another type of Wii controller. Heck, It even has the nunchuck. I mean, they couldve just copied the wiimote, but they just had to push their luck with the nunchuck -facepalms-

[nogolis]

You're theory holds no water at all... I bet if you asked the majority of 15 to 20 year olds who made the Crazies, they'd say Breck Eisner. When anyone with intelligence and culture knows it's a George Romero flick. I bet if you asked the majority of 15 to 20 year olds who Voltron is they'd say "wha? that's a powerangers rip off"

Of course they're going to think the wii was 1st... It's what's been shoved down their throats. But by no means is nintendo the authority on motion gaming just like Breck Eisner isn't the authority on ****** up a great vision.

I've played with Move - Natal and the wiimote... All 3 are very different experiences. Move is a totally different feeling than the wii when at its core. Not to mention the games all looked better than anything on the wii.

[TehSuperCell]

You are known for your lies on playing devices/games that havent been released yet. Your opinion means nothing to me.

[Oner]

I would normally go against Nogolis 99.99% of the time and the same for you as well TehSuperCell but the lesser of 2 evils has fact to back his claims and that is Silogon in this case. Proof ~

"The EyeToy was originally devised by Dr. Richard Marks, who had the idea of connecting a web camera to a PlayStation 2 and using it as a peripheral to play video games....with the resolution of modern cameras and the processing power of the PlayStation 2 new ideas were possible.... The idea was taken up by SCE London Studio,

****who showed a concept in 2002**** with four games"

Source ~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

Here are some additional videos showing how Natal does't do anything more than what the EyeToy already has done and show that the inclusion/implementation of a controller was set along time ago as well ~

http://www.youtube.com/watc...
http://www.youtube.com/watc...
http://www.youtube.com/watc...
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

And some more vids of Dr. Richard Marks talking about new directions in interface design ~

http://www.gamespy.com/arti...
http://www.youtube.com/watc...
http://www.youtube.com/watc... - 1 minute in
http://www.youtube.com/watc...
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

And a funny but accurate video ~ http://www.youtube.com/watc...

The PS Eytoy has been doing what Natal does and Motion Control with/without a controller for over 8 years already (since inception/during development).

[TehSuperCell]

Yeah well... the eyetoy ripped off the dreameye.

[Oner]

You really are sour about being proven wrong aren't you huh? Well here's some more for ya ~ the DreamEye was nothing more than just a plain old web cam and never really had any kind of games or capabilities that the PS EyeToy ACTUALLY had :P

[Tony-A]

Neither of them should be embarrassed. It was a simple misunderstanding:

Last generation, it was all about graphics, power and hardcore games. That's all everyone wanted and it showed with games like San Andreas and Halo 2. Sony and MS simply brought that over to the 7th gen, expecting the same to happen, only they'll have more power to make all three of those happen.

Then the unexpected happened. Social networking took off. Farmville became popular... the iPhone apps were suddenly considered games, motion control became a new "fun factor" and, worst of all, the recession hit....

All this together was perfect for Nintendo's risk... terrible for the other two.

[TANUKI]

Wow, you are on a roll today. Agree with everything you said.

[Tony-A]

Thank you :D

[spektical]

lets talk first

sony has been messing with motion controllers since PS2, long before the wii came out.

sony has also been messing with motion camera.

The problem is SONY never marketed the eyetoy, so ignorant journalists dont know the eyetoy has existed for 6+ years. The other problem is SONY took too long to get the controller out first. no excuses for SONY, they didnt hurry.

[Mini Mario]

"lets talk first

sony has been messing with motion controllers since PS2, long before the wii came out. "

Does this include the power glove too? becasue im pretty sure that was around long before a ps2. hell they even had it in a movie!

(the wizard)

[palaeomerus]

Microsoft had a motion controller for the PC out in 1998 called the Sidewinder Freestyle Pro. It was not a pointer as the Wiimote is but it WAS a true motion controller on the market 12 years ago.

The powerglove was controlled by flexing your hand which bunched and stretched a membrane inside the clove coated with a conductive ink. I don't remember it doing any 3d positioning though it could tell when you rotated your hand because the motion of doing so stretched the interior. I don't think the power glove is a "real" motion controller in the Wii sense.

Natal is essentially a binocular webcam with software to track human limb motion.

Move is a motion control(the secondary control attachement apparently is not) but needs a light on it so the Playstation Eye (monocular) camera can perceive how far away the controller is. It does not really track human limb motion for it's functionality and just looks at a silhouette for collision purposes. You can get it to simulate a generalized human frame by using TWO ad presuming that each is in one hand of a person but that's not really what it does in games.

So Wii is a pointer with some motion controls, and an infrared light source bar. It has an optional 'nunchuk' attachment to allow more traditional controller like interaction and secondary motion sensors, an optional traditional game controller attachment, a split panel scale, a biofeedback sensor for a finger, a more precise sensor caled Wii Motion +. It can get quite expensive.

Natal focuses on the motion and distance of major elements of a human body on camera and is materially probably the cheapest system as it is a single binocular camera and microphone.

Move is (so far one or two) USB rechargeable pointer/light/motion controllers, a parasitically powered camera, an optional USB rechargeable secondary controller. That's sounding kind of expensive and also like I'm going to need to buy a special multiport USB charger for all these rechargeable controllers.

So Natal, if it works and is easy to set up, is going to be the easiest of the three to sell to on the basis of consumer friendliness and simplicity.

But I'm not sure that anyone actually wants this that hasn't already bought a Wii, and an AWFUL lots of money is being spent on it. Of course I did not predict the popularity of the Wii so I'm not going to bother making a real guess now.

[prodg52]

it's been the HD consoles vs the Wii. After this year they're all in the same league. It will be an "equal" playing field. If the wii still crushes the other 2 in sales, then they deserve to win this gen.

[XerockX]

Imagine leaning forward to walk or crouching to duck an incoming flying chicken. Actually throwing a jab followed by a roundhouse. Lobbing a grenade based on the speed arc and direction Of your throw. Could be awesome. Now imagine this in a room with full positional audio and holographics. It's the future, natal is just a new begining in the future progression of our beloved gaming pastime.Obviously in it's infancy, but it will be amazing someday.

[KwietStorm_BLM]

There are things that motion controllers just cannot do, Wiimote, Natal, and Move alike. I'm so strained from hearing people say that this and that is the future. Nobody knows what the future is. People are just always so ready to label something new as such. Games have to be built around these motion controllers in order for the software to work, and in order for the experience to make sense. What that means is that you can say goodbye to a multitude of existing games. A game like Street Fighter needs very specific input to work properly. God of War would be asking for too much for the average, non combat trained citizen. Long story short, we have buttons for a reason. If all this motion business exists parallel to standard controllers, then fine, but I may have to find a new hobby if this stuff is the "future."

[Mini Mario]

"No, Reggie, you should be embarrassed that your console produces greater than 90% shovelware."

Hell so did the ps2 and psone..yet no one seems to comment about that>>? Even the NES was 90% crap.

2000 games on the ps2...were they all AAA titles...did u own 2000 games>>?

Did u own singstar, buzz, horsez, barbie horse adventure, bratz, shrek party? on the ps2!

[XerockX]

@kwietstorm. If I had to get up off my ass to quit playing games,I would also find a new hobby.Your going to see this stuff in theme parks and arcades as well. it would be complete stupidity to replace the handheld controller. It will be a seperate type of gaming altogether.Cry all you want about what people say is the future,but life would be pretty damn boring if nobody ever speculated about anything.

[Bon Scott]

Go read the stats on it and compare them to the Sony eyetoy.
I think you will find it does a lot more than Sonys offering.

No,the only embarrassment this gen is PS3 sales.

My how the mighty have fallen.

Sad,poor little Playstation brand......weep weep.....dead last.

[lh_swe]

the 360 had a whole year out on the market and yet only has a 6 million difference, the PS3 has thus sold more per year, which in turn one could say it has been more succesful, because Hardware sells over time and in all fairness one could say the Wii is nothing compared to the PS2 because that sold more and in the same way we'd be wrong because the Wii hasn't even had half the lifespan of the PS2.

But you are right to say it's last in terms of how much it's sold however you have to take more factors into account if you are measuring success; Hardware reliablility, future and current software line-up, functionality (extra's), media playback functionality, online service, costs (both initial(base cost) and life-time costs, including repairs, upgrades, add-on's etc) and maybe more important value for money both fully equiped and not but when comparing sales one has to take into account the gap between release a more accurate comparison to later determine life time sales is a year by year comparison in sales, taking into account the depreciation in sales over time.

Thats how I look at things and I have yet to decide which console is the best because they are both etremely different, some aspects matter more than others in different people's eyes, some games may be suited to one but not another so in the end its a personal opinion and unless the difference in great games is by double one way rather than the other I can't say one is better, and I don't think you should neither, especially considering I don't think you have fully experienced both consoles pro's & con's.

[KwietStorm_BLM]

No, Reggie, you should be embarrassed that your console produces greater than 90% shovelware. Yes, your sales have been through the roof, but if the majority of them have been to grandma and the kiddies, while your [long-time] hardcore fan base has made their opinions clear to you again and again, then what are you really about?

[xaviertooth]

Microsoft should be embarrassed after the RRoD debacle and gimping games.

[xc7x]

Nintendo / Sony and Microsoft are all guilty,some just do it more often than others,that's all that needs to be said.

[Figboy]

the Wii has proven that Motion Controls are profitable.

the PS3 and Xbox 360 have proven that the HD market is alive and growing substantially.

from where i'm standing, it looks like Microsoft and Sony can have their cake and eat it too.

they get the BEST of both markets: the HD fanatics, and the Motion Control fanatics.

can the Wii boast the same? no.

the Wii looks like a blurry mess on my 40" HDTV.

the thought of how simply STUNNING Super Mario Galaxy would have been if it looked like Ratchet and Clank Future: ACIT gives me a pang in my stomach, and SMG was a truly great looking Wii game (on a non-HD set).

anyway, i don't see why they should be embarrassed.

Nintendo proved everyone wrong with the way they marketed the Wii. motion controls caught on and became quite profitable.

as a business, why the hell WOULDN'T Sony and MS cash in on it?

something tells me Mr. Fils Amee is sweating a bit under his collar, because sales of the Wii, while still fantastic, aren't as on fire as they once were, and now the competition, which supports HD output, is producing motion controller equivalents that are performing, if what has been said about the Move is true, on par, and even BETTER than their praised tech.

the Wii will continue to be a success, and Nintendo will announce the Wii HD when it's wise to do so (they have a knack for timing new upgrades to their products just as the previous product's hype is waning).

Microsoft and Sony will get some ancillary income from their respective motion controllers, but it is by no means their CORE business, like motion controls are for Nintendo.

[Raoh]

why i would love natal and move

raving rabbids

okami

tennis

baseball

in HD

[Brklynty1]

They're taking their idea and making it better. What because they don't have top notch AAA games out yet? Please. This fool is forgetting Sony will now be taking away from its sales now that Wii games will go multiplatform. Sony proved that Move is better and more precise than the Wiimote. Nintendo had to add a extra device to get more precision and the Move still has better quality. Nintendo should be embarrassed. People think Wii sells because it has good games. It sells because its for families. Microsoft on the other hand........yea.

Time out! This idiot has time to say who should be embarrassed when the console he supports sales and plummeting.....real smart.

[Mini Mario]

"Why would Sony be embarrassed?
They're taking their idea and making it better."

Well that is yet to be proven. Especially for natal. And even so it was never about copying. It has always been embarassing for them saying that motion control is a gimmick. Now they are trying to use a "gimmick" for themselves.

HYPOCRITS

[JackBNimble]

...

[washingmachine]

in a way,yes,they should be embarassed cause they are just copying nintendo with motion control.its just a fade.

i cant see the next consoles coming out with there controllers,but then having to buy a mation controler aswell or would that be packt in aswell lol.

[AIDS_In_My_Soup]

true story.

[ivant]

A business should ignore what has made its competitor successful. Makes sense...to a half wit.

Just surprised Compaq, Toshiba, Dell & others haven't copied what Apple Inc has done with its PCs/Laptops. I guess they don't want to be EMBARRASSED. How sad for us.

[gtamike123]

Microsoft took the Wii me's and renamed to Avtars I would be embarrassed to.

[stridershoge]

I don't see any reason why MS and Sony need to be embarrassed, Nintendo may have started the Motion control gaming but they by no means have any right to have a monopoly on it. Consoles borrow ideas from each other, if you are the first to bring something to the table and it is successful then expect others to copy.

Nintendo should be used to being copied, they were the first to bring the game-pad, shoulder buttons and during the 90's most developers tried their hardest to copy Mario.

Personally I doubt either console will give the Wii a run for it's money when it comes to attracting casual gamers with their peripherals, the Wii has already attached itself as a console that adheres itself to casual gamers whereas the others are looked at as hardcore consoles.

What Sony and MS should be concentrating on is making Move/Natal work for the hardcore by trying to innovate in the software department, if there is one part of motion control the Wii has struggled it is software.

[heroicjanitor]

"It's ours you can't do that wah wah wah"

[tsn]

I don't own a console of this gen but PS3 and move is selling me its pretty much what the Wii should of been in the first place, when you do move's on the Wii its pretty much a sensor telling the Wii to press this button at this time.
The PS3 move is all real time you are in pretty much full control.

While you Wii/Nintendo guys are winging think about where this puts the Wii It pretty much makes the console useless, the gimmick has been vastly improved, so the Wii is now pretty much useless Nintendo is pretty much forced to make a new console which in my eyes is a great thing they are gonia have to appeal for the hardcore Nintendo fans not just the party trick casual just imagine Zelda in Nextgen HD graphics.

[AnotherGamerUser]

I dont see why they should be..
PSone was the first console with CDs (or was it Sega?)

Anyways, the competitors DONT need to be embrassed that DVD/CD became the dominant media for gaming. >>>

The first console with a CD attachment was the PC Engine/Turbographx 16.

[palaeomerus]

Personally I thought Nintendo ought to have been a bit embarrassed to show us the Vitality sensor.

(And Ravi Drums.)

On the other hand I must admit that I do not have high hopes for Natal or Move at this point. Sony and MS really have their work cut out for them at E3 this year.

[BLADE_X8]

Personally, I could care less what Microsoft does, as I do not own an Xbox 360. Futhermore, I believe that Sony's Eye toy was along the lines of what they are doing now....so it is sort of a rip off and part of their own evolution.

I would also like to see Sony not worry about their competition, and focus on making more great exclusives. With the sales of the PS2 still ongoing (Although they are finally slowing down), Sony should re-make/make sequels some of the great classics from that platform. For instance, a re-make of Devil May cry 1 (With some extra/re-worked levels and story direction), Metal Gear Solid 1, and sequels to ICO, Shadow of the Colossus, Jak and Daxter, and Sly cooper. And for the record, the Sony Eye Toy was out BEFORE MS's idea, which is essentially the same thing. Sony should use that function in combination with the Sony Move, to develop games. (This way, it is a little bit of stealing, but with much more originality and fun in it!)

[Rowsdower]

the enemy of my enemy is my friend

[Enigma_2099]

... HOW much time did they spend on ridiculing Nintendo for their "gimmick?"

[Picnic]

"I think a hallmark of Nintendo is that we are constantly trying to innovate. I think we would have been embarrassed to do what our competitors are currently doing."

Nothing, except for Super Mario Galaxy, has interested me as much this generation as Bioshock, Uncharted: Drake's Fortune, Heavy Rain and Alan Wake. Sony and Microsoft have made some mistakes but Nintendo might feel a bit embarassed that their line up isn't half as exciting as in the N64, or even Gamecube, days.

[ALFAxD_CENTAURO]

http://www.joystiq.com/2005...

[supakat]

I was a hardcore gamer when i was a kid till my early 20's that's till i had kids. Now i loved my ps2 didn't bother with the xbox since i hated the "duke" so i refused to play one, which you guys probably think ahhhh that's bs ps fanboy blah blah blah. Well i got a Wii for one reason; THE Wii IS PERFECT FOR A FAMILY THAT HAS KIDS THAT CAN PLAY TOGETHER!!! They have a lot to offer the old school hardcore gamer in me but i cant play the ps3 and 360 with the great game selection they both have since they are to real looking and i don't think my sons are ready for that. For now the embarrassment should be to us gamers that talks way to much smack about which system is better each have their pluses and minuses(wii no hd, dvd9 on the 360, the slow load times on the ps3 (from what i read)). I feel we all need to take our times and stop crying about how sony stole the wii remote(it can only lets 2 people play at one time anyways) and how natal is going to not be worth it(once they come out with a game that will make me notice it). well that's my 2 cents.

[karan8624]

For making the 360 and giving birth to all the idiot xbots