Samuel Lassoff, an attorney in Philadelphia, is taking Microsoft to court over claims that the Xbox 360's currency system - Microsoft Points - exists to "unjustly enrich" the console manufacturer.
You spend money to buy points and buy things off of MS's marketplace of course it's meant to "enrich" MS. The left over points can be added to your next purchase.
This is clearly someone who just got onto the gaming scene. Obviously a noob, as he yet doesn't understand how MS points work. I've got 300 MS points sitting in my account? Am I suing MS for "enriching" themselves off me? No, I'm waiting till there's something I'm interested in. At that time I will buy more MS Points and use my already existing points in conjunction to buy whatever I want. By this argument, I could sue, Sak's Fifth or Old Navy for "enriching" themselves off of me because I used $20 dollars out of a $25 giftcard and couldn't buy anything else with the remaining balance. Logic, Reason, and Understanding are rare these days. But Yeah, I think MS does need to go back to Cash. Straight up.
I get annoyed by the points system too, I know it is a deceptive way to sell more, but it is pure ignorance to want to sue over something as silly as this.
He sued Google for a search error and a Casino for something equally as trivial. He is not to be taken seriously. This isn't a "console" thing, we shouldn't endorse a crazy person's cause. This was all in the article btw. I find it suprising how 90% of the comments on N4G are reactions to the titles of articles, and not the actual content itself.
is there not a thing about using real money to buy off these people? dont you need to add a minimum amount of cash to psn and XBL?£5? any less than that and a transaction fee swollows up a bit?when i add funds to PSN do i not have to add at least £5.just buy a 79p chair from home.can i get the rest back? i dont know if i can.someone educate me.
No Wrathman, on PSN you can add as little as you like so you dont need to spend money until you actually buy something. Its a much better system, and I've never liked the points thing. Its not as easy to tell how much your spilling and the having to buy so many points when you might only need half of them is pretty shifty. PS This guy sounds like a litigious tool, but he's not suing for the things you guys are talking about. Hes saying he was charged, but couldn't complete the download for whatever reason. It doesnt give a lot of info.
You're missing the whole point with that "left over" thing. If you get a maxim valued points card and there's no way you can spend it down to zero, or transfer money from a card only to have a notable portion left over, then shenanigans are happening.
I bet that lawyer guy is fapping all over this news... AH! Jack Thompson is his name. I forgot.
Godmars290 yes you can spend all your points, anyone with a 360 knows this. The points left over go to your next purchase also making your next point purchase cheaper. There are two ways to buy points through Live and retail and the value differ. If you buy something for 300, 800 or 1200 points and you have 300, 800 or 1200 points brings it to 0.
Someone is speaking up against this abomination.
Okay, but what if you have 500, 1000 or 1600 to start with? How, when you can only buy MS points at certain values, do you reach those specific values. Especially when you only planned to buy one item. MS has it set up so that if you have 1600 that if you buy something for 1200 then want to buy something else for 500, you have to get another 1000 points just to make up the 100 point difference. Will have 100 points left over if you then buy the 800 point item. Though this is proof that you can't make anything that sounds like an admission of wrong doing without being hit with a lawsuit. Something like this should have happened long before a MS exec actually opened his mouth. [email protected]: So tell me, in what amounts can you buy MS points? By Rich1631 comment at 5.0 the only time you make a 1-1 purchase is if something is 500 points.
Godmars290 your ignorance regarding points and Live is obvious.
It would be great if MS drops the points nonsense. But they are the defintion of hardcore capitalism. So, I doubt they will.
You are incorrect sir. On the PSN, you can only add funds in $5 increments. The other day, I bought Linger in the Shadows. It came out to $3.16. I now have $1.84 in my account that I cant do anything with. I cant even buy a premium theme. The same thing happens on Xbox Live. Every store does it, it's how they get people to come back and buy things. This lawsuit is ridiculous and frivolous. There is no way this nutjob will win.
The points scheme is just that, a scheme. It's just like a carnival. Say there is a ride that costs 3 tix to go on. But the carnival only sells the tix 5 at a time. So I go on my ride now I'm left with 2 tix, but that's not enuff to go on that ride again, so I buy a batch of 5. So on and so forth. Point is, I paid for 5 tix, two of which I can't use cause that's not enuff to go on a ride. Same system with the MS points and that's the point of this lawsuit. He paid for electronic service in which MS did not provide. He has points he paid for but can't buy anything with unless he buys another batch of points. It may be noobish, but it certainly 100% without a doubt misleading.
No, you must make a minimum $5 purchase on the PSN, that money you have left over stays in your account. So let's say you want to buy a map pack for $10, next time you will have to pay 8 dollars and change since that $1.84 will go towards the purchase. Think of it as a gift card. The minimum $5 charge is likely because whenever you use a credit card the credit card company takes a percentage of the sales. The PSN definitely has the best billing system. You don't have to buy in $5 increments, it is worded funny...you just have to make a minimum $5 purchase. I bought a ton of things like 7 or 12 dollars and it billed me for just that...7 or 12 not 10 or 15.
ill be pretty stupid if he wins the lawsuit than everyone would wanna sue microsoft and use the same example to win the case
The Microsoft point system simply cannot be defended. If you compare it to PSN or Steam's purchasing system, Microsoft's is a complete scam in comparison. Ever since I purchased my 360 and spent my first money on Xbox Live, I have always had left over and unusable credit on my account. Unless Microsoft changes their policy, I will have some amount of left over credit on my account forever. The 360 and Xbox Live are both great, but the transaction setup is designed to steal money from customers. Also, you really should be able to use points on your account to pay for Xbox Live service.
Or... MS could be forced to give up the points system to avoid more lawsuits.
Everyone should buy their Microsoft points in Dollars which is the cheapest value per a point. With the Australian Dollar / Point ratio being the most expensive, meaning that everyone is getting ripped off. Atleast with the Wii and PS3, if I'm buying something for $4.99 or 3.49 euros than I'm getting it at that value. Now with Microsoft doing their math, 400 points is not 400 points especially if you get it at retail, or market place, or even Amazon. All values are different and an illusion to what they really are, especially if you live in states like Washington were you are taxed twice if you buy it at retail and than use use it online. For some reason that state charges for online purchases like soon to be New York City.
So let me get this straight, some A Hole is suing MS because they sell THEIR products for what ever price they want? Logic dictates that if your not happy with the system, dont buy the procuct
More like they're keeping the change from your purchases, and have it set up that no matter how much you spend, there will always be change left. That their price tags, their prices in general, aren't the same as the money you give them.
That's not true. You might have change left over once or twice, but you always get a chance to get rid of it. All sorts of games and all sorts of addons are all different values, and you'll bring it down to 0 pretty fast. Do you even have xbl?
I think MS really likes lawsuit. ;)
uses REAL money for games
True, but it's not all that much better. PSN still charges you for the same dumb crap that Microsoft does you just get to pay an exact amount instead of having extra points.
The thing i hate about PSN is that they dont update their price to compete with retail. $29.99 games that can be bought for $9.99 is ridiculous.
Microsoft does that too though. A lot of the on demand games can be found for less.
Actually it is Microsoft that is forcing developers to charge for content! An example is Burnout Paradise, they were able to deliver so much free content because they wanted to bring that content to the PS3 where they choose to enhance the value of their games instead of nickel and dime for everything. Sony wants to deliver as much content free as financially possible where Microsoft made me pay for everything. Why is Pac-Man free on PS3 and 400 points on Marketplace?
It sucks big horse gonads for two reasons: 1.) You can't just by the exact amount, for example map packs are always 800 points but yet I am forced to buy 1000 since Microsoft only has it set at 500, 1000, 2000, 5000. So that means for the next map pack, I will AGAIN have to buy 1000 because I will have 200 left over but buying a 500 will not be enough. See have unfair/lame/not cool this sheet is? They do it on purpose and sometimes you get left with an uneven amount like 40 or 60 points. What the hell am I supposed to do with that? Buy a gamer pic? Buy a cap for the retarded Avatar? Come on! 2.) Pure trickery, you never know the exact price since I don't have a conversion chart in my head. You would think that 1000 would equal $10 but it doesn't, it is more. You think that 800 points in $8 but it isn't...it is $10...you would think 1600 points in $16 but it is $20. Why can't it just be in goddamn dollars and have the option to by the EXACT AMOUNT like the PSN? IT IS FRIGGIN' STUPID!
Rich.. you are the only one with some common sense here. Kudos for that.. Btw.. Nintendo uses the same System.. it´s a lousy system and I have ALWAYS some spare points, no matter what I buy.. And to the guy who said, that the next purchase will be cheaper, because you have some points left from last time.. HA HA HA .. you still used money to buy the points the first time.. HA HA HA.. If I was you I would sue your teacher for not giving you some common sense in school..
I completely agree with you Rich. Other idiots on this site have no problem with huge cooporations controlling the way you spend your money or purchase your products. I think I've been watching Fight Club too many times XD
What a dumb lawsuit. I dislike the MS points as much as anyone but to actually file a lawsuit over a few dollars is ridiculous. If you don't like the way they do it then don't buy the points. I don't like buying 200 points more than I need but I always know there is going to be something new I want at some point so I get over it. Enjoy losing that lawsuit buddy.
He wants MS money. To whine about anything just to get millions off someone seems like one of the easiest ways to get rich nowadays.
Yeah but I can pretty much guarantee you that he is not going to get millions. He will receive a small settlement (maybe a few thousand) at most.
You can sue almost anyone these days for any reason. Sue the council for not making the pavement straight enough becaue you happened to fall over and scratch your hands.
I think it's totally valid. Imagine if you went into the grocery store and rather then paying in cash they said "Sorry, you have to buy tokens, even if it's more than you need." Then at the end you have left over tokens that you paid money for, but aren't enough to buy anything. The store says "Hey, you can use those tokens next time, and if there isn't a next time...too bad!" How much extra would you think that store would be pocketing regularly? A dollar here, 2 dollars there would certainly add up over time. Now, people obviously wouldn't frequent this store but with the Xbox 360, you don't have a choice. If you want the goods, buy the tokens. You wouldn't support a grocery store that tried to pull the same shenanigans. Why is it ok for Microsoft to get away with this? Just because you've decided to live with it doesn't mean it's right.
nice post, that may have made more sense than my Carnival comparison. I'm not sure how all those MS supporters don't realize they are being ripped off. Granted I have purchased my fair share of stuff on Live but I knew I was gettin screwed, most didn't. I'm glad Mass Effect 2 is here so I can finish it up and cut all ties with my Xbox on another tope: are you getting MAG?
You are ABSOLUTELY right about that. lol. Isn't Micro being sued, like, a monthly occurance? Them not being sued would be more shock worthy.
how about suing for lagitamit issues like rock band songs that you pay for that sudenly get removed from your library with no refund or dlc that you you own but cant sell not something that makes you look like a total idiot , and where do they find people to take these cases ? its no different than goin to disney land and gettin 20 dollars worth of mickey money or goin to a fare and gettin 20 dollars worth of tickets to ride rides
There would be plenty of attorneys willing to take this case because it will probably never make it to court. They take it with the intention of getting some small out of court settlement that they take 30% of for doing very little work.
I am not sure how Rock Band works but you can download content that you paid for an unlimited amount of times on the same console. Just go to your Account Management and then your download history.
I think MS are often "shady" to say the least and deserve to pay for the wrongs they've perpetrated on consumers. That said, this lawsuit is senseless. Nintendo run a very similar system (points) and this tool's not taking them to court. Microsoft don't round down or remove excess points after a purchase. They (the points) accumulate. I think this sad little man just caught a glimpse of all the lawsuits Microsoft have been facing lately, and the fact they settle most of them out of court and thought "I gotta get in on that". I hope this guy has to pay costs when/if he loses. That'll learn 'im.
Can N4G make a section for M$ lawsuits? This isn't really news, you see..
It only does Rip Offs! (:
However, I do think that the point system that Microsoft and Nintendo use is just stupid.
"We never meant to mislead people". As much as I love Microsoft for changing the game scene, they have also screwed up a lot of things. It has more to do with the greedy neck-tie wearing bastards that set the prices for accesories like the network adapter and hard drives. I agree and have been arguing for a long time that the microsoft points system was sinisterly set up in a way that no matter what we purchased from live you'd always have left over currency that always useless unless you purchased more points. It's a never ending cycle. The prices of all content are marked to support the system. Why else would those microsoft points come in numbers that would inevitably leave you with points left over. For example try dividing the number 11 by the number 7 and you'll see my point. The lawsuit won't fly any further than a chicken though because there are thousands of other businesses that use the same model. istockphotos.com and fotolia.com really abuse the system.
why can't they use real world currency like Sony does?
I would really like to see them to continue to lose money like this becuase they make bad hardware and cheapskate descisions
Then you must h8 Sony so bad cause unless you've got subjective memory...the PS1 was known to have heat issues (had to turn the dam thing upside down to play discs) and Sony never acknowledged it or fixed any for free in a warranty period. The PS2 had optical drive problems - common knowledge - which caused a class action lawsuit against them cause they were not trying to fix any that was still within warranty (many died right after the 1 year warranty expired (something Sony products are notorious for). We all know the PS3 has gotten YLOD issues - again, many right outside the warranty period. Now there were no known mass issues with the xbox. So let's tally the score: Sony 3/3 Microsoft 1/2 N4g is funny.
It's a way to keep users interested into buying things by adding a little bit more. Now I do not think there is a "CASH OUT" tab on XBL so it sits there as unused money. Not sure how MS benefits "Directly" though, if Cash/Point value sits there unused.
"As for Lassoff, he's no stranger to suing big tech companies and other organizations. Records show he sued Google in 2006, claiming the search ads he placed fell victim to click fraud. He also sued Bally's Casino in Atlantic City in 2005, claiming he was attacked by a drunken patron while sitting at a poker table." Sounds like an ambulance chaser.. How many of these lawsuits actually turn into anything?
Just because you think it cost too much just to buy points? Your a freaking lawyer you can buy anything don't bother complaining on buying points. You get better service with your LIVE if you hate it so much why buy it? Plus you make more money than anyone here STOP SUING PEOPLE TO GET MORE MONEY FOR YOURSELF.
that raises people's taxes. I dislike the pts system too but hey Good Luck with that!
on PSN you add funds e.g. last fund added was £20.00 for Guitar Hero tunes, now I did not spend the whole £20.00 so I have funds left, please someone explain the difference between actual currency and points? I know in the US the points are not great value, e.g. in the UK they are of a similar value to the euro, e.g. £17.99 for 2100 points, IMO unless you do not need to manage your bank account then you are going to add funds (PSN) or buy points (Xbox-live), and if you do not spend the entire amount there will be leftovers, simple answer is charge by the £/$ or whichever currency you use, but if I have 500 points left and I want something for 800 points then allow me to purchase 300 points. I always use points but for all I know maybe you already can buy small amounts of points using your debit card online? but either way it is hardly worth suing over, there has to be limits to what a person can sue for, this is just ridiculous, sounds like this guy just likes suing people.
Totally agree, it's ok to sue for cash but not sell points, I am being sarcastic of course.
its like paying for air
This is so funny how 360 fanboys is crying about Microsoft charging to much yawl like to ben over and take it, $50 for this a $100 for that.if Microsoft going to be stupid and paid for over price stuff, Microsoft going to keep sticking it to yawl HAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!! HA.
i love the playstation brand. Playb3yond
LMAO at people in the gamer zone trying to defend this nonesense. Some people will bend over and take anything. Why is it that you can only buy points in certain increments? It seems the arguement is that MS isn't ripping anyone off because you can use those points towards other purchases - somebody failed basic economics. So in order to purchase something from the marketplace you basically have to invest your money in the bank of XBL. How much interest is MS giving you for them?
Americans are so stupid...
I agree with MS getting sued over this , to many people this case may sound "frivilous" but in reality its a small foot forward for the gamers , if people dont take MS to court for these things they are going to continue to do it and sucker all of you in to paying these ridiculous prices for digital content. The point system is used to enrich MS and its wrong. MS were the ones that decided the same DLC for L4D that was free for PC users was not free for xbox users. If its the same content i dont see how owning an xbox means you have to pay for things that should be cheaper if not free all together, remember if you have live you could be buying a game a year with the suscription fee. its a real shame that he wont win that case due to MS being the big monopoly monsters they are.
It IS annoying. I mean, how pissed off would you be if you went to pay for a $15 CD at walmart with a ten and a five and they said "sorry, we only take twenties" and then you give them a twenty only to be given a $5 walmart coupon as change? That'd NEVER fly. A lawsuit is probably taking things too far, but the points system is pretty annoying and they'll probably try to take stuff like this to the next degree unless people make a stand. It's bad enough that they got people to be okay with them charging for online gaming when the service is ad-supported.
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