On the latest episode of Counterpoint, Torrence Davis from thebitbag.com goes against the infamous HipHopGamer.
I agree with hip hop in his closing statement. The PS3 Eye can do the controller gaming like the wii with much better graphics, and it can also do controller less Natal style games. The product they mentioned for natal to detect muscle movements and give vibration feedback sounds totally insane tho!
Here's the problem: The WHOLE point of Natal is a "controller-less" experience (according to MS) right? So if a controller is need ALONG with Natal doesn't that make the whole point of Natal redundant? Without a controller, not much can be accomplished, especially not hardcore games such as FPS. I'm curious to see what they do with it, but right now I have little hope for it. I'll buy it if it's cheap, but other than that I don't think MS can deliver on the hype. AT THIS POINT, Natal has not shown ANYTHING that can't already be done on the PS2 eyetoy (which launched FIVE years ago).
wow hip hops out ta lunch on natal a patch that senses muscle movement and provides feed back Just imagine what that could do for porn.
Christ, do you Sony fans not understand yet? PSEye can NOT do what Natal can. Go look at the specifications yourselves, they're not hard to find. Why do you think that the PSEye needs the controller? It doesn't have the possibility of fully rendering a third plane nor the detail to register individual digits, facial recognition, the RAM to store all the information it gathers, etc, etc. This is more than just creative software.
I believe I have heard Microsoft, from very early in the natal development, say that it is not just for no controller, but will be able to work with one as well. While some games, mostly casual will not need a controller, wii sports like games, racing, although I don't think I would want to race without a whee.. Some games will need a controller. FPS, and hardcore games. The point people like me, not xbox fan idiots, have been saying is that I am excited about the possibilities. Is it right to just say Natal is the end all be all and next big thing? Nope, just as it is not right to dismiss it like many on this site do. Until we see games, and how it is implemented, we can't make an educated judgment. I am excited about what it could mean for overall media experience. I hope one day to have a natal, or natal like device on all of my tv's, connected to my media center that houses all my music and movies. I can walk into the room, say power on, it recognizes my face, automatically pulls up my playlists for music/movies or for me ESPN pops up on the screen. I think Microsoft is debuting this in the gaming market, but I believe they have expectations for much bigger things. I think that there is no way natal will completely take the place of controllers and anyone who does is a blind fanboy. Until we see some games and some real demo video of those such games, I will hold off judgement on it. I am just excited about the possibilities.
You're in lala land. Can you show me an application of what Natal can do that the Eye toy for the PS2 couldn't do? All the crap you're talking is hype from MS that's been pounded into your head. There are games on the PS2's Eyetoy that don't use any type of controller just your hands. Sony brought out similar games in year one of the PS3 launch too so what exactly are you talking about. MS is playing you for a fool dude. Please, show me these games that MS has shown that displays things the PS2 Eye toy hasn't done. Please, Im curious. Maybe there's a youtube vid or something you can use to shut me up.
@ 1.5 Typical Sony Fanboy attitude. That's it, just disregard all the points I made and say "BUT THAH EY3TOY FOR MAH P$2 CUN DO EEET!!!". Congratulations. (And no, I'm not going to pay attention to your points. Not just because you ignored mine, but for the fact you think it is ME that is being played by a company.)
did anyone notice how much more time hip hop got to talk than torrence? Almost every time Torrence starts talking hip hop interrupts after 1 sentence and talks for 4 minutes.
But in all fairness that sounds really awesome hope it is true
hey look it's an oreo
So bad its actually funny...
hey look it's a racist
i can't understand hip-hop gamer, at least i can understand that other guy.
The whole Natal idea sucks, MS have lost the plot. Controllers are needed.
Counter Point is one of the dumbest shows, great concept, but execution is very sorry. It is trying to be EXACTLY like Pardon the Interruption. Also taking a stab at a WAY better show that is Bonus Round made you look stupid. Jeffs grammar and presentation is unmatched by your ignorant style and language.
@ Ziriux What show do you produce?
I was always thinking that it would be cool for Natal to have 1 to 1 tracking of facial muscles of the player and the arm movements, so for example, if you're playing a multiplayer game, you could actually see your teammate's character faces moving in unison with what they're yelling out at you from their headsets. I think that would be really good. Unnecessary, but awesome, and it would also be more immersive if your voice resonated within the game, so that if you're breathing heavily, that would be heard from your character within the game, and the enemy could hear it too, so you'd have to be extra careful. Of course, one would immediately gain an advantage by turning that feature off so they could hide without being heard, but I digress. Those kinds of features are supposed to make the player more connected with the game world.
I agree fully with Xeoset, why do you think the PSEye needs a controller? Wake up psn fanboyz, and speaking of fanboyz...why do hip hop gamer talk about the wii or the 360 at all when he's clearly being paid by sony? If you really listen to him he's basically saying, if you was to cut him he would bleed psn.
"he's clearly being paid by sony?" wow, you really are delusional aren't you.
Only my fail sense screams at me when I move my mouse towards one...
Holy sh1t, it's Hip Hop Gamer without his retarded do-rag.
I would have watched but hip-hop isn't sporting his wrestling belt...so count me out :D
Who is that hambeast on the left?
Pork Roast and Onions.
Torrence Davis, and he's a really decent guy. One of the better game journalists out there. He knows his stuff, and he's a real gamer at heart, maybe give him a chance, instead of immediately judging him.
It's a joke. I can assure you, I'm not exactly the most skinny dude out there.
I think it's weird you stick up for Torrence Davis because whenever I see him comment here he's always on a high horse judging people.
"I think it's weird you stick up for Torrence Davis because whenever I see him comment here he's always on a high horse judging people." He's far from a decent guy. If anybody's ever listened to his comments on Warzone, he puts himself on a pedestal and puts even his friends down. He's so self-absorbed it's ridiculous. As far as gaming goes, I agree with him on certain points about fanboys and things like that, and how gamers should just play games and not consoles. But that still doesn't excuse his high and mighty attitude that everyone should bow down to his opinion.
He's got the knowledge of a gamer, but one thing that I haven't shied away from the battle I had last year with him is that he IS an egomaniac that didn't really handle criticism of his site too much. He's real quick to do what others above have stated. That and he seems to pick on the PS3 and those that defend it, and let's slide a lot of 360 favoritism that happens on other sites. As for Hip Hop, he is a complete 180 from Torrence. He seems to be a completely nice guy (though unafraid to defend himself), truly believes in the industry (like I do), and wants for all systems to succeed. I've had talks with him in the past, and he's always been nothing but kind (and he doesn't talk down about other sites like I see Torrence do sometimes). I can't say that I've ever had a problem with HHG (which is why I defend him a LOT on here, even when I'm not into the same kind of music he's obviously into. Take out the Nas and Lil Jon and give me some Slipknot, Alice In Chains, and RATM in its place). Just my two cents.
"Nintendo, get your head outta your ass!" Best statement on the show.
Natal has huge potential.
Though it has yet to show it. Its supposedly out in a year, yet to get the hype train started MS showed it now. With games that hardly outperform PS2 eyetoy titles much less the Wii. Meanwhile Sony's sex toy showing the percussion the 360's fan-camp is hoping Natal will have.
I like how people are taking what MS is saying about Natal for face value. MS uses smoke and mirrors to market. They have being marketing this way forever. I'm sure that SOME games on Natal won't require a controller, but most of them will. The hardcore games you best believe will need a controller, unless you want to run around your living room jumping behind you couch and "shooting" at your TV screen. Will the camera be able to pick up all the fast movement if thats how you had to play the game? I seriously doubt it. Nothing wrong with Natal at all, but its not the 2nd coming or a leap into the future. Off course MS will want you to believe that it is even though Sony was pitching this in the PS2 days with tech videos to prove it. While we are on the smoke and mirrors topic, have you guys noticed that we haven't anything new about Natal's feature to scan objects into the game?
I actually think people aren't giving MS enough credit for natal. Remember that unlike the pstoy natal will be available for use on PC too, and that's when we'll really see the difference between what current cameras can do and what natal can do.
there's a pretty interesting video on his website looking at microsoft research and microsoft corp and it's use for this muscle based control. his blog is called procrastineering. He's also a lead on natal and was the gentlemen that set up head tracking for the wii. I wouldn't be surprised if ms is developing it for use with games. http://procrastineering.blo... so he might not be as far off as people think.
Good Show, everybody have alot of good points but Natal just don't look right without a controller and Sony's Motion Controller it looks cool but it really looks like a dildo they could have made it better looking then that.
I'm glad everyone is talking about the topics of the show instead of just ragging on HipHop. Both Torrence and HipHop really show their journalistic chops on this episode. You guys have any suggestions for future guests you would like to see on the show?
I've watched the thing 4or5 times now. HHG really represented on this one. No putting in plugs for developers or publishing houses that gave you some ad incentives, no BS holyer than thou attitudes and disingenuous spewed crap; just great host, great forum, just great grown up gamer stuff all round.
But I think this whole motion control thing is stupid. I sure to a degree some games will be good with it. But not for the hardcore games. It just seems like it will be very tiresome. One of the reasons I love games is because it's a lazy activity. I do sports and work a lot. When I play a game I just want to relax and enjoy. Can you imagine God of war or Fight night with motion control. It would tire you out after a hour. Although It would be funny to see a bunch of buff gamers. But I think this push for motion controls is a way into the causal market. So to me Natal and the Sony wand is a bad thing. It's both companies moving more to causal games. I think 3d gaming is a much better upgrade then this motion control stuff. Leave motion control for the causal for the Wii.
They both show their prowess and knowledge of games and consoles.
N4G is a community of gamers posting and discussing the latest game news. It’s part of NewsBoiler, a network of social news sites covering today’s pop culture.