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OXCGN Forza 3 September Update #5 – Forza goes Dyno Tuning

OXCGN:

"While many games on consoles claim to be simulations, most aren't. Forza 3 would have to be the closest thing to a real racing simulation than another game being released currently. I say that even knowing many Sony fans of the excellent Gran Turismo will be jumping up and down swearing profanities left-right and center.

The reason I say 'simulation' for Forza 3 is because it does simulate as many aspects of the cars in the games as humanly possible.

Not content to use 'canned' crash noises like many would, Turn 10 actually purchased vehicles and crashed them in order to obtain the 'correct' sound that would be heard when you do crash in Forza 3. Not only from outside, but from inside the vehicle, above it, etc, so that when you're in a 3rd person viewpoint, you'd hear a different noise from when you are on say the bonnet cam view."

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XboxOZ3602930d ago

you just have to admire the amount of detail that is going into this game. Not only from a visual standpoint, but from an engineering point of view as well.

The amount of work in creating just ONE of these cars, the audio required, the crash recordings, tyre deformation and noise . . .it's doubtful you'll find that in any other console game currently on the market, or due to hit soon.

KionicWarlord2222930d ago

Yeah...

Well maybe another person to not name who is a perfectionist .

Blaze9292929d ago

this is one thing i loved about Forza 2, the amount of customization we have over the cars from the insides to the outside.

PROFIT2929d ago

this title and the sony one both look great.

it will be interesting to see the final comparisons

kevoncox2929d ago

People just don't understand....This game is going to be huge. The customization is going to be crazy. Everyone seems to forget the HD movie feature. Forza will be better than GT because of the 360 and it's community. In GT you drive around alone and check out the sights and enjoy the cars. In Forza....you get that community that is built into the game and people exchanging ideas, cars, concepts movies. It's equivalent of joining s message board about a hobby(say video games and the one you are on now :p). It's gonna be crazy.

darkmurder2929d ago

Forza is now my most anticipated game, I need a time machine to transport me forward!

+ Show (4) more repliesLast reply 2929d ago
LiquifiedArt2930d ago (Edited 2930d ago )

Forza is more of a "racing game", while GT is a true replication of cars and the car to driver interaction that car enthusiasts (like myself) seek.

Racing is fun, but the sheer number of hours I just take a car out and drive around the ring and enjoy the car is not comparable by a simple score or feature list. Gran Turismo is a very different creature.

To say Forza is the most accurate simulation is just plain Not true. The developers themselves state that they are making a more "casual appealing" simulation. Which means dumbed down. Hence touch the grass around a turn on GT will send you off into the hay bails, while its an easy recover in forza.

I wouldn't even mind saying it could be the better "game", but it doesn't even hold a candle to the car to driver interaction that GT does.

....
Disclaimer:
If you like this type of game I'm happy for you. The racing is secondary for me. That is why GT is for me :)
....

This Backs up my point 100%
Quote from Xbox Gamer / Forza player: "I tried with gt4 and I didnt get into it at all, I couldn't even get all the licenses, I was bummed and sent it back."

I'd like to see what others think about my opinion.

Ninjamonkey2930d ago

I dont know really. Forza 2 had some really good physics in there.

And forza 3 looks to continue it further. I mean just looking at the upgrades show how many components of their physics engine there are. From tyres to anti roll bars.

Yes it is going to be casual friendly but at the end of the day all those assists can be turned off and so what your left with a good sim game.

I think both games will feel very realistic. With GT5 edging out in graphics, and forza 3 winning in customisation.

But then it depends what you want. In forza there will be one type of each car, and you customise. But GT5 will have a car, and then the convertable, and then the manufacturers stripped down harcore version.

Do you want to upgrade yourself, or would you rather have the manufacturers tuned version, exactly how they do it?

Both have pro's and cons.

cornfedgamer2930d ago

Yeah, it sounds to me like both games have good things going for them. Which is better, GT or Forza, is not really worthwhile to argue since both are great games and each player will have his own, valid opinion. Everybody enjoys different aspect of each game.

Different strokes for different folks.

The Meerkat2930d ago

And every GT game has rubber walls that you just bounce off of with almost no loss of speed.

Why is this still even a question?
Do most people on this site not have driving licences?

I have sports cars and sports bikes in real life, and Forza is more like real life than GT. No ifs, no buts, Forza is more realistic.

Anyone who thinks GT is like real life doesn't know how to drive.
And I would say could even be dangerous if they ever get behind a wheel.

LiquifiedArt2930d ago

Damage or Rubber walls has little nothing to do with the actual driving physics. If you hit a wall in real life neither game simulates that correctly.

99.9% of the time I'm not hitting walls though and i'd assume any genuine car enthusiast isn't either.

I own a G35. I'm 27 and Feel well connected with the car in GT. (obviously not as good as real life, because of lack of peripheral vision and G-Force and Tire slip)

Ninjamonkey2930d ago (Edited 2930d ago )

1) neither GT5p or forza 2 were that realistic when hitting into a wall.

2) also considering conservation of energy and momentum then in a crash bouncing back off a wall in a collision is exactly what would happen. The force before the crash is the same as it is before the crash, some is lost as heat, some is lost as sound, and some is lost through the car crumpling. The rest will be lost through backwards kinetic energy.

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Here, about 35 seconds in you can see that in a head on crash the car is sent backwards slightly, thats probably a crash at low speed, going over 100mph would sent the car going backwards quite a bit.

And since both games didnt have good damage modelling they wouldnt simulate the energy going into crumple zones, instead tht energy probably just went into kinetic energy.

Hoepfully though both forza 3 ang GT5 will do better =D

So yeah, theres your mini A level physics lesson lol XD

XboxOZ3602930d ago (Edited 2930d ago )

No disrespect meant mate, but have you actually played Forza 3? . .I've played both GT5's Prologue and also the final finished code of Forza 3. And, having had years of experience behind the wheel of real race vehicles, building vehicles, painting them and owning some bloody quick beasts over my 57 yrs, I can tell you from that experience, that this current iteration of Forza 3 is damn fine and closest I've felt to the real thing in a game - ever.

My son, who's 33 love GT series, and has GT5 P. But he admits there's issues he dislikes about it, and also those he dislikes about Forza 2, as he's yet to tastes Forza 3, unlike his dad. (grins)

The cars "feel" solid on the tracks, (I was racing the V8 Supercars) you could feel the tyres give and while the game is aimed at the casual market, you have to remember, that only a segment of the game is aimed that way. To say it's only a casual racer is a false or misguided actually.

A gamer can approach the game at full speed as a hardcore racer - if he or she wishes to do so. Or, the casual racer who simply wants an arcade experience, can have that. Neither cuts from the experience of the other. I know, I've played it. If you come at it as a racer, using the Fantec wheel especially, then you'll have the experience you're talking about with you Logitech wheel. We have the one with the clutch and the pressure adjustable steel pedals, so that you can set the pressure to change gears at the right pedal throw and do proper heel-toe brake change shifts etc . .Now that is not possible in a casual arcade game . is it.

I'll have GT5 when it is finally released, and it will be great, butto say that Forza 3 is not a simulation, when you see and hear what they are reproducing within the games physics, and dynamiics is just biased.

GT is doing the same in many areas, both will be great, but from my 'experience', I can say this that it certainly isn't just an arcade casual game. Even the V8 Supercar drivers had the same to say when I met up with them the other week at the media event.

In fact, they were very surprised at the responsiveness of their own copied cars in the game, and seeing the concentration on their faces, you could see that it wasn't just sitting behind the wheel and slipping around the track. They had to work at it, which I would say is more simulation, than arcade game.

Don't get me wrong, I love any good racing game, and as I said, I'll have GT5 when it is released (using my sons PS3 - he also has a 360 btw), but I can testify that the gold code of Forza 3 feels solid as a rock, and NOTHING like Forza 2.

QuantumWake2929d ago

You are an evil dad, XboxOZ360! Lol :D!! I for one can't wait to play the Forza 3 demo. I also can't wait to play GT5. They are both going to be awesome racing games. I really love wait Turn 10 has done with Forza 3. It seems they are trying to push the best out of the forza series. They are basically taking Forza 3 to a whole new level. Improved physics, more cars, more tracks, a deep customization system..... For a racing game, I am pretty excited for Forza 3.

Once GT5 gets more news and videos, I will get more exicted for that as well.. Happy Gaming! Cheers! :D

JokesOnYou2929d ago (Edited 2929d ago )

"If you hit a wall in real life neither game simulates that correctly." -LiQuiFiedArt

Of course no game simulates damage perfectly to "real life", do you know how much "computer horsepower" that would take...it sure as hell isn't possible on consoles or PC atm, but the fact is at least having a general understanding of car models, speed, physics can provide you with "a good representation" closer to real life damage,...is it 100% accurate damage, hell no...not even close, really but by your logic why try to simulate real life physics or all the other apsects of a "simulator". Damage for a sim is directly related to both the reward and punishment for your driving skills, why slow down to take the corner when you can just bounce off the rail?

JOY

XLiveGamer2929d ago (Edited 2929d ago )

LiQuiFiedArt> "To say Forza is the most accurate simulation is just plain Not true."

-Forza is going to be the most accurate Racing Simulation Game on consoles ever...

P!

RE!

OD!

-GT series have always been an Arcade Game with some simulation elements. GT series have never been a Racing Simulator.
Now Forza 1 is the 1st Racing Simulator on consoles. Forza 2 is a continuation of what Forza 1 is just better. But now Forza 3 just take it out of the park.

LiQuiFiedArt > "The developers themselves state that they are making a more "casual appealing" simulation."

-YUP moron a more casual appealing for you without taking the Racing Simulation Hardcore for me. In other words now you can play Forza LiQuiFiedArt.

LiQuiFiedArt> "This Backs up my point 100%
Quote from Xbox Gamer / Forza player: "I tried with gt4 and I didnt get into it at all, I couldn't even get all the licenses, I was bummed and sent it back."

He is complaining about HOW FAKE the physics on GT series is when compared to real life > http://www.youtube.com/watc...

ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS DRIVE A REAL (Stock Car) AVAILABLE IN GT AND THEN TRY THAT CAR IN THE GAME AND YOU ARE GOING TO FEEL THE SAME LEVEL OF DISSAPOINTMENT LIKE KANYES WEST MOM FELT WHEN SHE SAW HIS SON BEHAVIOR AT MTV VMA 2009.
--------
"Their simulator was an influence on the game. We were swapping notes on how they do the complex fluid dynamics for their aerodynamics as well as how they generally simulate tyres, offroad surfaces and what have you. That was very helpful for us, to be able to swap notes with basically a commercial grade - where there is no expense spared - simulator and learn the sort of tricks they've learnt and give them basically to the masses at 60 bucks."

http://www.oxm.co.uk/articl...

Now LiQuiFiedArt go back to the bamboos pick one, start sucking it and STFUp.

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

To all those morons out there...

When a professional Race Driver says that he use GT to learn a track doesnt mean that the Simulation in the game is the best.

---------
@ULTIMATE_REVENGE

8 -
"Car companies know that PD aim to create the most accurate models of their cars hence why PD have a hard time in getting their licences because most if not all of these companies know how PD work and what they try to achieve.

They know that if the cars bad in the game then it's bad in real life that's how accurate PD will recreate their cars and these companies don't want their cars to look bad to the public or have a bad reputation."

You can create >graphically< a car 99% close to the real thing in the game all you want BUT THAT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SIMULATION AND PHYSICS ON THE GAME. COMPRENDE?!

Ra1kkoneN2926d ago

@ Meerkat:

I'm a racing car driver myself, and everytime I drive with the Skyline R34 GT-R it responds how it would in real life. The damage models don't really matter in my opinion, it's much more fun to have a realistic driving experience than a realistic crashing experience.

+ Show (7) more repliesLast reply 2926d ago
gaminoz2929d ago

I think if both Forza and GT were available to both consoles you might get more honesty from gamers about what they really like: unless you have both consoles 360 owners are usually going to prefer Forza and PS3 owners are obviously usually going to prefer GT.

In either case, both are good games that racing fans who own both consoles will probably buy and enjoy. Still that whole 'no damage' thing in the past really irked me.

REALgamer2929d ago

Heh, I swear most Forza players spend more time with the menus and stats than actual racing!

I guess that's the appeal though - hard work tweaking, tuning and customising your ride but then the reward of seeing your perfect (or imperfect) creation on the track and online, knowing it's you that has made it drive and feel the way it does.

I just don't have the patience for it, haha.

Godem2929d ago

I spent waaay to long in the menu's in forza 2 lol

XboxOZ3602929d ago (Edited 2929d ago )

For the information of those that are a tad sceptical. Over the years I've built and driven many a beast. such as a Standard Ten ( http://www.motorbase.com/pr... which had a Holden Red Six which had ford pistons 198 Cu-In, 3x 1.3/4 SU's, GTR XU1 rear end shortened, Home made stub axles with disc brakes. The first two carbies had to be adjusted from the passengers seat inside the car, as the engine sat deep into the drivers compartment because the cars was so small.

Or those who've seen the Datsun 510 in the game so far, well imagain that in a ute form with a 327 chev, Powerglide trans, 9" Ford Locker. 12" rears and 4" fronts, or the 55 Chev Tudor with a 396 Big Block Rat motor, Ford 9" Locker that could pull the wheels in 'full street trim', plus numerious others contraptions that rattled many racers cages, or the Speedway racer with a huge Chevy and solid rear axle - thinks back and shudders!!!.

Having built, driven and raced real vehicles, and known racing drivers over the years, I'd have a slight understanding of what a vehicle 'feels like and how it handles, or doesn't handle for that matter.

Having said that, from the games I've played to-date, include GT5's Prologue, Forza 3 is the closest thing "I've experienced" to the real thing - so far. Now I can not say what GT5 proper feels like, no one can, as there's not a finished code to play or compare, so anyone saying it is better, is doing so on their thoughts, not their 'experience'.

When coupled with the Fantec wheel and billeted pedal assembly, the game feels like it should, NO GAME WILL BE A FULL SIMULATION - ever, no matter WHO MAKES IT.

No game can, or will. There's just way too many variables to take into consideration for a game to be a simulation in the true sense of the word. Both Forza 3 and GT will have limited damage modeling, we've seen the modeling in both so far, and neither are real representations of full damage such as in say Grid or even DiRT 2 etc.

But they are both great in their own way. Unless you have a setup that allows for full hydrolic movement of your c.ockpit based on road changes, steering G forces etc etc etc - then you will never experience a proper simulation in a game.

So in affect, both Forza 3 and GT5 are really not simulations per-se, but are as close as you might get to one, given todays technology and game physics.

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