Is there a concerted effort on the part of third party developers to hinder the Wii's success? New Inside Track podcast explores the possibility.
I agree with Casey.
Stupid developers should be held accountable for craptastic games.
Nintendo should remove it's gold seal from games like Spiderman 3.
3rd party developers havent shown any love for it from what i've seen
I thought I warned everyone about this at E3 06'...
Because the Wii is basically an outdated version console with motion controllers, the graphics are compared to last gen consoles!!!I cant see a future for that system, it is obviously for non video gamers, that dont know anything about games, unfortunately theres a majority of people that dont know about videogames so they fall for platforms like the Wii and that why its selling so much FOR NOW
to the Wii one's.... and seniors!
The implementation a motion sensitive controller creates another big obstacle in how well a game works. Even more so than the PS3 because the Wii practically depends on motion sensing.
This adds a lot of difficulty to design a game, at least the control aspect. While Nintendo's 1st party developers make some great games, people are left with 3rd party games to play while they wait for the real games. Which could be the fatal flaw.
And yes we have seen some pretty mediocre 3rd party games on the Wii sadly. Which is a big reason why the Wii isn't gonig to be a primary console for many. And im not even dissing the Wii, i want one, for some fun.
But as long as the Wii doesn't have long game droughts from 1st party developers it should do fine. Sadly though, that is becoming more evident as time goes by.
1st party games will come this fall.
Some will come next month.
Indi developers will end up saving the show. Mainly because they will try harder then any of the big dogs.
For the good of the industry. I don't like the Wii. I hate when people compare the DS to the Wii when the DS didn't take such a drastic step. The DS did take a generational leap in graphics over its predecessor, and it also added more buttons. It didn't alienate the hardcore gamers. It simply added some innovation but remained with the classic stuff and it's a huge success.
On the other hand, the Wii is a gamecube (with a little duct-tape of course), and some motion sensing. Lacking buttons and some horsepower ruin its potential. If it was a physics monster like the PS3, motion sensing would make even more sense. If it had the cell processor, you'd see a lot more things interacting with your motion bullshiit. If it had 360s GPU and RAM, you'd see the game shine and it would look fresh; instead, they have the same tired Gamecube graphics, if not worse (even when it is supposedly faster).
The DS (Lite) is a great follower to the gameboy advance SP. Sleek, significantly better graphics than the gameboy advance, more buttons, nice interface, online (even if it's not the best), tons of games, and it expands the audience. It doesn't segreggate the consumers into "New gamers", "Old gamers" and "hardcore". Everyone is invited, just like the PS2. On the other hand, with the Wii, hardcore gamers are being screwed. The only thing new is the controller. Of course, the design is too, but that's probably the last concern. Nothing else is special. Not a new GPU or CPU or PPU or AIPU. Crappy online. Old technology. Less buttons. Same last-gen graphics. Friend codes (unfortunately this cripples the DS too).
I hope the Wii is just a fad, and that it falls flat on its face. Hard. That'll teach nintendo to innovate, but not to alienate its hardcore fanbase. You know, the ones that have attach rates averaging 30 games and keep Gamecubes and 64s afloat.
Evolution in every way for the Win; Revolution for the lose.
And by the way, I don't think developers are doing it on purpose. It's just that the experience for playing Wii games is poor. I rather play Zelda on gamecube. That's where it was meant to be anyway.
I Couldn't agree more your so right man
Screw the wii stupid mini game machine.
I could understand why most developers wouldn't want to make games for it and just bring out half-a$$ed work. Apply it to your own work (if possible) would you rather work with the latest stuff, challenging yourself everyday, learning new techniques, push yourself further etc or would you rather go over the same stuff you've done for the past 10-20 years, where you know exactly how it all works and what it'll output in the end?
Apply it to movies, you want to keep watching the same old movies day after day or would you rather watch new ones?
To each their own, but i would much prefer to advance in life rather than doing the same thing with the same results day after day.
By doing half arse jobs all the developer does is make a bad name for it's self which in it's self kills overall profit for them.
If your making Spiderman 3 your basically doing the same crap 3 times.
If your porting, then your doing the same crap different console.
Only when you do exclusives do you ever get to create something new and unique.
Movies...well most new movies aren't worth the celluloid their printed on.
You be better off watching old movies and classics.
If you want to advance then don't sit around playing games then.
Get out and do stuff. Run 1-3 miles a day.
Read a book. Learn a new language.
Be proactive and update your resume.
Eat better. Do your best at everything you do.
If developers did their best then no-one would have crappy games like Spiderman 3.
It would also kill most craptastic ports as well.
And if your wondering..I do run 2 miles every other day.
If the Wii is nothing more than a collection of repackaged hardware that developers have been working with for the last decade where is the evidence of their competency with it?
Fact is the bulk of 3rd party titles for Nintendo consoles suck because the bulk of developers for 3rd party titles on Nintendo consoles suck. If you put these same developers to work on an Xbox 360 or PS3 title you'd still end up with the same mediocre crap (See the PS2 library.)
I'd expect the talent gap to close if Wii sales continue to outpace Xbox 360 & PS3 combined. But we might even see a 180 the beginning of next year when Sony is forced to confront the ugly truth: Wii hasn't been expanding the market, it's been gobbling up PS2's market share.
Wow, I was beginning to think I was the only one on this site that actually does something other than gaming in my freetime. My monthly gym membership costs about what it'd cost me to buy a used Wii game every month ( < $45), but it's definitely worth more than any game that could ever be released on any console.
many studios spent alot of time and money figuring out the X360 and PS3 and dont feel like wasting that on developing for something that is considered last gen. plus nintendo are a victim of their own actions when they treated 3rd party developers so badly back in the day.
In my opinion Nintendo needs to get third party developers like Kojima, and Team Ninja on that system A.S.A.P. They need third party developers that implement things well into games, or soon in the future someone like David Jaffe who will be creating his own studio soon.
In the end Nintendo needs top notch third party devs to really make the Wii shine. That will also push other devs to be a little more creative with the system's games instead of half-ass.
Neither of those ever work on such weak ass hardware.
Yeah Husso that's why Team Ninja is making Ninja Gaiden on the DS and not the PSP...
Bubble-up PS360WII =)
super smash bros brawl nuff said
Spider-Man 3 isnt nearly as bad as everyone thinks. I found it challenging and fun to play. It certainly isnt epic, but its better than 95% of other "Movie" games.
True. There was no context for the screen shots, but I think they were posted to Wii-bash. IMO the Spiderman 3 developers have implemented an innovative solution to traditional pop up.
In Spiderman 3 the world is always around you. Objects don't pull an I Dream of Jeannie "blink in" as you move down scene, instead the flat-shaded objects are textured & simplified geometry replaced by more complex representations.
That having been said, Spiderman 3 could certainly have used more work on it's presentation, but it was a movie tie-in with a fixed deadline.
....on the part of third party developers to hinder the Wii’s success? Sure. But the developers aren't all to blame. It's not like the wii itself has allured them with overwhelming capabilities or any "big secrets," right?
How far do you think a new [& fun] controller would take a 2006 GC anyway? Think about it.
To 7 million strong by the end of May.
they are just trying to make a quick buck and cash in on Wii's success with lots of poor PS2 ports.
then others should be able to.
Surely third parties should be able to create really good original games as the dev costs are so much less, they can take more risks.
if nintendo had released an uber powerful console with the wii controls the chance of any devs creating ideas exclusivly for it would have been impossible due to this generations massive development costs.
Well if it's the same hardware that was used last gen then all the devs should know every little secreat to get the full power out of the system. We should be getting games right out of the bat that look like Ninja Gadien Black, FF XII, God of War, or Resident Evil 4. Yet we don't devs put out games that look like a cross between end of psone era. So yeah devs are responsible for what is coming out for the Wii. You guys can spout all you want about Wii being last gen. Okay but we also know it's an upgrade from last gen and we should be able to get the goodness that we have seen on some of these last round titles.
If devs are developing games for multi platform I would imagine it cost more to get them on the Wii because they design these games around the 360 and PS3s HD capabilities and they have to be dumbed down for the Wii. The graphics you get on the Wii now is the best its ever going to look, so the only place the devs have freedom is with the Wiimote and there is only so much you can do with that.
Explain your non-biased basis for that statement and why that logic doesn't also apply to the PS3 and/or 360. Feel free to cite historical examples of consoles whose graphics did not improve after having only been on the market for 6 months.
I'm not being biased (I only do that for Sony) I'm being realistic. Most will agree that the Wii graphical power is just about as much as the Xbox (maybe a tad more because of the CPU) There just isnt enough room inside that little Wii box for anything more than what you get now. The Wiis focus is on changing the way we play not on graphics. So again The 360 and PS3 could easly copy the Wiimote but there is no chance in hell the Wii could ever match those two systems on power and graphics (so their stuck with last gen hardware) I'm not hating, Nintendo has alot of quality games but your just not going to see them in HD.
"but every console sees graphical improvements over its lifespan" True but in this case the Wii will never reach anything more then the best looking games of last gen (which isn't bad look at Splinter Cell Chaos Theory, Ninja Gaiden, Halo and God Of War). Now I'm not saying the Wii's not fun, its fun as hell but with the whole world moving toward HD the Wii will be left behind. Or crushed in the cut troat buisness that is gaming consoles. Now I bought my niece a Wii last Christmas (hard to get) and she loves it and I love that she loves it but lets face it the Wii is a three year console at most. Unless Nintendo picks up some third party support or come out with a new HD version of the Wii, they will end up on the bottem like the Gamecube.
PS I been playing with a Nintendo all my life and I would like them to stick around but I'm an adult and I want to play adult games. The Wii's appeal seems more targeted to the young gamers but they will get older and what are they going to want? I am not nor will i ever be a hater of Nintendo, they started this gaming revolution after Atari failed. The Wiimote is an awesome Idea that I'm even sure my console of choice the 360 will eventually copy.
ItsDubC I don't think like that about the Wii just being a supped up GC It has alot more Potential than that.
"The graphics you get on the Wii now is the best its ever going to look"
I may have been a little harsh about that, I'm used to Sony fans "Sorry". I'm just hoping Nintendo jumps on the HD bandwagon before its to late because I would love a Wii with HD graphics power that equals or 1ups the original Xbox. Now I may just be spoiled by HD I don't know but Nintendo needs to do somthing to get me as a consumer.
ItsDubC It was nice discussing the Wii with you, I'm so used to bashing the PS3 and PS3 fanboys that I sometimes forget that there are intelligent people here. I'm just ranting, Nintendo will do fine but I would love Wii Sports on my big screen in HD.
Saying that the Wii's graphics are the best that they'll ever be is entirely different from saying that they'll never be as good as the PS3 or 360's. It's obvious that the Wii will never achieve the graphical quality of the PS360, but every console sees graphical improvements over its lifespan. I just can't see how you can comfortably say that the Wii's graphics aren't going to get any better than how they are now, given that the system is so young.
"True but in this case the Wii will never reach anything more then the best looking games of last gen"
Well, this is a departure from your previous statement of, "The graphics you get on the Wii now is the best its ever going to look." I agree that SC:CT, NG, Halo, and GoW are amazing-looking games and I look forward to having similar-looking games be released on the Wii, but I don't believe that there are any games currently out on the Wii that achieve the graphical quality of those games. That is why I couldn't see how you could say that Wii graphics currently are the best that they'll ever be. Regardless, much of this discussion is based on the assumption that the Wii is just barely an improvement over the GC in terms of graphical capability. While the Wii hardware seems to be slightly more powerful than the GC (relative to the improvement in power between the GC and the PS360), the dev tools (software) for the Wii have vastly improved over that of the GC according to anonymous developer reports. So this makes it very difficult to pinpoint exactly where the Wii's graphical potential lies w/ respect to this and last gen.
As for HD, less than 50% of the American population even owns an HDTV and while that number does continue to grow, I don't think it's an accurate reflection of the world's move toward HD. I personally don't feel that HD will be a requirement in the console war until next gen or even the gen after that except in the American perception.
I am also an adult but differ in that I do not feel compelled to limit myself to adult-themed games. Funfactor is my primary concern w/ respect to gaming so I do enjoy my Halo, Ninja Gaiden, and Splinter Cell. But I enjoy my Wii Sports, Super Monkey Ball, and Rayman Raving Rabbids just as much.
"ItsDubC It was nice discussing the Wii with you, I'm so used to bashing the PS3 and PS3 fanboys that I sometimes forget that there are intelligent people here."
Likewise, it's nice to be able to discuss things w/ someone that is actually open-minded enough to welcome differing views and opinions. That is why fanboyism is such a dead-end mentally. Sometimes in our fanboy bashing, we forget to take the time to have intelligent discussion which is really what adds quality to this site.
Nintendo may have left HD out this round, but I can almost guarantee that it will be supported in their next console. The simple fact is, hardcore gamers as a whole are much more likely to own an HDTV than the average consumer. This is why many hardcore gamers today see the Wii as a subpar system while the casual gamer may not be able to justify spending $200 more for the purchase of an HD-supported console if he/she does not even own an HDTV. By the time the next console war rolls around, the average consumer will probably have an HDTV and therefore will demand a console that takes advantage of it.
The issue with stating that the PS3 or Xbox360 could easily tack on Nintendo's innovation but the reverse is impossible is this:
Innovation is not defined by increasing bit rates and shrinking circuitry and increasing storage space. Innovation is implementing new ideas and finding things that will become of value.
Ex. Ipods are not the fastest mp3 players. They implement a simple user interface and a sleek look, as well as some online download services which ended up being more important to consumers. The Zune is more capable and could "easily" implement such features, but they won't because Microsoft doesn't see those features as valuable.
The Wii is small. The other two consoles can't implement that. The Wii focuses on features that many of you may scoff at, but the sales numbers show that there are others who value them. I prefer the news channel and the forecast channel and the internet channel to the internet services on the other consoles. These features are easy to use. They work well. The motion control can be used by anyone. It is fun and people are gobbling it up, not because the masses are stupid. Because it is a focus on what they value. The Wii is innovative, not by being more powerful or larger or noisier or combining many different appliances into one whopping whole, but by focusing on features that most find valuable (easily seen in sales data). Grannies and boys aren't the only ones buying this console - many of you own it. But how many grannies own a PS3? The Wii is inclusive. For those of you that play video games >40 hours a week, you'll need something else. But for most, the Wii focuses on the right things and ends up being a good solution to interactive gaming.
Also, developers were banking on the PS3 and the Xbox360 as the successful systems. When the Wii was successful, they quickly developed the ports you're talking about to cash in on the Wii's success. It takes more than a couple of months to make decent games. The point is that NOW the developers are focusing on the Wii much more than they were initially. Good games are in the pipeline for this system.
P.S. I have a Masters in Computer Engineering. I understand that it is not a simple matter to shrink dye and implement multiple processors, but it is a logical next step that can be taken without much thought on which direction you're headed. I am not a grannie or a boy and I do not own a PS3 or an Xbox360. Also, I have no particular allegiance to Nintendo. I just like innovation and companies that focus on what I value. I own a Wii and love it, and so does my wife and everyone we invite over to play.
Bubble-up my fellow engineer. Well thought-out and insightful.
"Grannies and boys aren't the only ones buying this console - many of you own it. But how many grannies own a PS3?"
I welcome any grannies' comments about the gaming industry, in case any of you n4g members fit that demographic.
Well said. That Comment could be considered "innovative" in a community such as N4G, which is ravished by fanboyism.
Everyone take notice. I have a Wii and 360 for now, so I know where your coming from. My little niece loves bowling. I'am waiting for some newer games tho. See I don't get the same gaiming experience on the Wii and 360, they both serve their purpose.
if the wii's success will go on like this, developers must acknowledge it and will eventually develop games for it, not only will it be cheaper, if their games will sale they can make a huge profit out of it.
while working with the PS3 and 360 can be riscy.
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