N4G And Destructoid Users Don't Mind Raping Women In Games

William Usher: "The surprising turn of the matter, however, is that many of the users at Destructoid and N4G actually condone raping of women in video games, going as far as defending why the games should exist, be sold and actually cater to an audience. As horrible as that sounds there is no way to better state this scenario other than that each and every one of them supporting such a deplorable act is a misogynist (at the least) and truly must hate women."

[gambare]

"many of the users at Destructoid and N4G actually condone raping of women in video games, going as far as defending why the games should exist"

Because it's fantasy... how many times a male mature gamer has raped Cammy, Lara croft or even Kasugano Sakura in their minds? as long it's fantasy there is no real problem. Fantasy is a way to liberate the stress of someone, that's why we play (create) games.

[RememberThe357]

Like being a f*cking man and dealing with it. Go work out, have some CONSENSUAL sex, meditate, write, but feeling like you need to control a woman's body for your own pleasure is not being a man.

This isn't even about the woman now, it's about the person having these thoughts. They need to stop beating themselves up, take control of themselves, and evaluate why they are having these thought. They need to recognize that thoughts of brutality are not OK(in any form) and they need to figure out the root of these thoughts. They need fix the issues that are weighing on them so that they can become better people. Not for anyone else, but for themselves.

These thoughts of being powerless are the same thoughts that drive people to mass killings like the one just yesterday. Kill those thoughts and make your self better.

[TheAntiFanboy]

Well if rape is bad, so is murder. Look at how much that happens in our games, and we don't even give it a second thought. Some games even glorify murder in some of the most gruesomely sadistic ways imaginable; you carve people apart using chainsaws in Gears of War, the entire concept of killing people is a gameshow in MadWorld, Killzone 2 has like over a hundred different death animations, ragdolls in Grand Theft Auto are painfully realistic, and the biggest selling point of Mercenaries 2 revolves around the joy of leveling huge buildings and structures with as high an explosive yield as possible.

And yet, you, I, and everyone else on this website plays these games without a second thought. Why? BECAUSE IT'S NOT REAL MURDER. It's a video game. It's fake, it's false, it's fantasy. We're consciously committing the worst of human atrocities, knowingly taking the life of someone else, in a virtual world that doesn't even exist. And we all agree this is perfectly fine, BECAUSE it's a virtual fantasy. So why not rape? It's simply another crime of a very similar magnitude.

If you're gonna tell me that this game needs to be censored because of rape, then you're gonna also have to tell me that every game that involves killing someone will also need to be censored. Because murder is as bad a crime as rape, if not substantially worse.

And if anyone's curious, no. I don't approve of this game. In my personal opinion, it's nasty, and I will never go near it in my life. But my argument still stands. Even if in my eyes there's no justifiable excuse for me to enjoy playing this game, it's still a video game, and thus must be judged equally among other games. I'm simply being fair and just.

I also recognize the potential for people to start going on censorship sprees. Once activists realize that they can get this game off shelves, they'll start shooting higher. "We got Rapelay banned! It's possible to ban games! So now let's aim for Grand Theft Auto! And Gears of War! And Call of Duty! Soon, nothing but Sims 3, Hello Kitty, and Cooking Mama will dominate store shelves, and anyone who owns any game that involves the slaying of human beings will be put in prison!" It becomes that much more likely for them to knock games off shelves, and without enough opposition, the effect snowballs for the entire gaming industry.

[Jinxstar]

Truth is as long as Rape is in movies and books and comics there is no reason for it not to be in a videogame. So long as(Well I feel anyway and this is just my opinion) that there is a point to it story wise or similarly and it's rated M or AO(Depending on how graphic it is). It is an adult theme and there is no reason for it not to be in there as long as it's rated as such. Is the subject that Taboo. What happens if in GTA you walk in on some dude raping some chick and you kill him and help her... I see no problem with that myself but whatever.

I think a rape simulator is bad but at the same time... I can't judge some other culture based on their upbringing... Tons of Anime has rape in it and no one complains about that... If some culture was raised to "Eat the flesh of your enemy to know their soul better" they would be shunned by most of the world because of how "Wrong" it is... It's still not my culture to judge and I wont do either of those things but putting it in a book or movie or TV show is ok but when it's a game "Oh no N4G is the devil and destructiod is right there with them"... Rate it accordingly and have equal standards.

"it's corrupting our childrens minds" You know the parents that say that. We all do. you know their parents said the same about TV, Their parents said the same about comics, Their parents the same about moving pictures, Their parents the same about Radio, Their parents the same about crime novels.... It goes back long into history of product control. I feel some people are just born evil. They will figure out how to do evil on their own... Kids will get a hold of M rated stuff. I used to have playboys, Smokes and Vodka all in my room when I was 15 and I was banging the skankiest chicks in school. now I am a firefighter to my community and serve the people. I was in the Army and deployed and feel I have become a pretty good person. Point being there is no reason to not go over every aspect of our society. Why not have a game where you get to be the villan. Why not have a game where you seek true justice. I mean the theme or rape was in Watchmen and I didn't see communities all up in arms about it.... Get over it and accept it.

[Timesplitter14]

EDIT : The whole debate comes down to this : Censorship V.S. Non-Censorship. The big majority of us don't support rape. That's for sure. But some of us, like me, don't want a society full of weaklings who can't face reality and can't think by themselves. We want the power to choose and we refuse to be over-protected like babies.

---------------------------

Killing is worse or at the very least as bad as rape, therefore they must also be against games involving killing or else they don't make any sense.

Also, it's people's responsibility to choose. This is the kind of person who takes this matter too personally and tries to twist what we are saying to make us look bad. We're not saying this game is awwwwright or anything. We're just saying that we are against censorship and WE are responsible for our actions.

Rapists will use their imagination even if the game doesn't come out. Children use their imagination for their porn needs even if they don't have access to porn. There's nothing you can do about it.

Your best bet is to declare that all rapists will suffer divine motherf****** punishment and that they will be tortured by 12 miggets with plasma torches until they drown in their own body fluids. That's it. Do rapists deserve life? Nope. Call The Fist of the North Star to annihilate these guys.

[Cold 2000]

I personally cant believe that some people can actually defend such games like Gambare for example and its even scarier to see that people actually agree with him. I just imagine some sick pervert behind his PC clicking the "agree" button while looking forward to RAPING people in in his next RAPE simulator

How sick in yr mind can you get ??? RAPE games ??? And you justify that by "its fantasy" ??

I know you going to come back with the "bu...bu...what about games where u murder people". Well simply put it back in the context, playing Gears, Infamous or GTA simply IS NOT the same thing and you know it. Thats why Im against games like Manhunt too because it simply crosses the limit. And you know a game like Splinter Cell where you kill people is simply NOT the same thing like a game like Manhunt where you kill people too.

I mean what the hell !!!??? Defending RAPE games ????

RAPE GAMES !!!

I bet my post will be deleted but I had to say it. You guys are freaking sick in your minds.

[Timesplitter14]

Playing GTA IS the same thing.

You kill innocents. It's just in your head because you got used to it.

[Cold 2000]

Look at post 3.1

[Information Minister]

It's not the raping of women that is at stake here. It is the idiocy of banning one form of violence while ignoring other (arguably even more shocking) forms of violence in games. It is the hypocrisy of submitting videogames to a censorship not found in other mediums.

Users in N4G and Destructoid are not condoning rape, they are defending freedom in videogames.

[Tony P]

So what's worse? People that can have an intelligent discussion about fictionalized crime in games or sensationalist sites that profit off of dragging the same subject through the mud for hits?

I don't think I or the many users of N4G, fanboys, gamer, or other have to justify ourselves against the ignorant generalization made by this site. I'm done with this trash. I've got real articles to read.

[Timesplitter14]

The people you kill in GTA are, most of the time, completely innoffensive civilians.

Don't even TRY to tell me you've never done it. We've all done it, because it's not for real.

[cyguration]

Honestly you never played GTA...

Only people who never played the game say "You kill innocent people" Dude, sometimes innocent people get killed because of the slippery car controls or accidental shootings but the game IS NOT about killing innocent people.

You have a choice in GTA and people seem to ignore the HUGE difference between choosing to do other things in GTA (being a taxi driver, vigilante, etc.,) and killing innocent people because you're sick. In Rape simulators you don't have any other choice in the game (or objective) but to rape. THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE.

Stop comparing the two, they are different because of the choices.

[dragunrising]

"how many times a male mature gamer has raped Cammy, Lara croft or even Kasugano Sakura in their minds?"

Actually, I've never raped anyone in my mind. Its OK to have a fantasy however rape should not be one of them. Rape is NOT consensual. Why would anyone get off at hurting another person? If you care about anyone but yourself, you should not condone or view such material.

Arguably murder is worse than rape, however no matter how much people argue, rape can NEVER be justified. Rape victims are ALWAYS victims and NEVER aggressors. In shooter/killing games your always fighting the bad guys or aggressors; it may be justified on this basis.

Rape games are nothing more than simulations of the actual thing. If you buy and enjoy these types of games your name should be on the sex offenders list. If games are to blame for anything perhaps a case could be made to link pedophiles and rapists.

Would be rapists out there- ask yourself if 15 to life is worth it.

[Cold 2000]

Glad to see that theres some people who arent sick in their minds on N4G.

[gambare]

"1.1 - There are better, more productive, ways to deal with stress.
Like being a f*cking man and dealing with it. Go work out, have some CONSENSUAL sex, meditate, write, but feeling like you need to control a woman's body for your own pleasure is not being a man."

Yes, I agree at 100% with you but... What healthy man didn't had a sexual fantasy about his favorite character real or virtual? yes, NOTHING replace the experience of a healthy relation without any kind of deviant, but ANY man has a fantasy in his mind, and bringing those fantasies to real life can be a problem... but bringing then to a virtual environment where no one is harmed is way better and safer for others.

[BX81]

@gambare. I think you are completely wrong on this buddy. There is no way in hell it is ever acceptable to think in your head that raping is ok. Fantasy? Really? Fantasy is something you want to happen but you know would never most likely happen to you, because you don't have that kind of luck. Try to fantasize about having consensual sex with a woman and not raping them. You're such a scum bag!

[gambare]

"Fantasy is something you want to happen but you know would never most likely happen to you..........

Try to fantasize about having consensual sex with a woman and not raping them. You're such a scum bag! "

Then it wouldn't be called a "fantasy"

I mean... I could have a fantasy about having sex with Tifa on a flying unicorn, without rape of course... but "Fantasy is something you want to happen but you know would never most likely happen to you" ORLY? yes, but that's why is called FANTASY, is not likely to happen IRL, many people bring their fantasy in form of pictures, drawings or even, guess what? BOOKS

I'm a scum bag? you sound like my girlfriend, and she loves me yeah yeah yeah!

edit:

For the people who is saying "are you defending rape?"

no, I'm not, rape is terrible, but let's put this : Are you guys defending murder games? are you guys defending games in which you kill muslim people, color people, kill female characters? no of course not, they are fantasy games, virtual and surreal.

[Christopher]

It's just no worse than killing everything in sight with a huge arsenal or even your bare hands.

Seriously, the game will be rated as necessary and will be limited in that regard.

People aren't for rape, they're against censorship.

[MEsoJD]

I've role played with my girl is that bad???

You gotta spice it up once in awhile.

This game if anything is keeping people from committing this act in real life.

Just like playing a shooting game. You most likely aren't going to shoot someone because of the game.

Why do we embrace violence soo much in the US??? Places such as Europe and Asia focus more on sex than violence. IMO we should too
and not treat it as taboo.

A sex game is no worse than a killing game.

[phosphor112]

I went ahead and tried that "game" man its f*cked up. I mean F*CKED up. I couldn't get past the first part of the game dude, she was like 13 or something. Seriously wtf?

This is a guy that lurks /b/ all day, and I look at this game and go "wtf".

Also, from what I got from the story, its utter sh*t. I've seen pornos with better stories than that.

[stephen2005]

"There are better, more productive, ways to deal with stress."

Yes, there is. It's called exercise. Going to the gym. But God forbid if N4G users should go do that.

I'm still amazed that these rape games are actually getting defended on this site. The guys who created this game are a sick bunch of people, and people are actually on his side??

That is why I all but left N4G. Can't stand the commentors. Not to mention the mass amount of fanboy (although, I rather have you be a fanboy than defending this sick stuff).

[TheAntiFanboy]

Rape isn't consensual? True. Guess what else isn't consensual: MURDER.

[KeenanTheSavage]

Starting sh!t with two of the most popular gaming sites in the world isn't smart. Just makes you look bad.

[RememberThe357]

What the hell were you reading?

[Pebz]

... and gives your site a lot of hits. Yet, people are approving this. Hook, line and sinker.

[Saaking]

N4G and Destructoid are big, but they're not two of the world's most popular video game sites.

[Timesplitter14]

Yeah right you think we're an army or something?

[ThatCanadianGuy]

Destructoid...biggest gaming site on the net? LMAO

[Redempteur]

is that a troll article ?
or is it propaganda by the ones who don't play games at all ?

either way i'm sad i clicked to see what this was about . A total waste of time at best or a pathetic attempt at journalism maybe ?

[SuicidalTendencies]

I guess we all condone murder since we play games where we kills lots of people. Whoever wrote this dribble is a complete and utter fool. There is a big difference between fantasy and reality.

[RememberThe357]

it's a bit different. In our society it is considered "OK" to kill someone who is trying to kill you. In fact, it's expected. With games like Gears of War and Killzone you are fighting wars. In wars people are trying to kill each other. Hens why it is considered OK to portray these events as games.

Defending games like postal is the same as defending this game.

Viper7 4.18 http://www.n4g.com/gaming/N...
"Honestly I think its only the best if game developers try to avoid these subjects like child porn, raping, Schoolshootings (or other massacres), recent wars or religion."

Sitdown 4.20 - @cmrbe http://www.n4g.com/gaming/N...
"So from birth, would you be okay with your kids watching videos of women being raped or brutal killings?"

Gamers draw lines in the sand all the time. Look at MMO's, there are always rule created by gamers that are not apart of the games and may even go against the games rules. And what about the unwritten rule of not giving away a games ending? There are somethings that are not OK, portraying rape as OK or a good thing is one of those things. These are unwritten rules that have been in place in the entire industry for a reason.

[Pebz]

I understand your point, but I honestly think it is a case of doing the right thing (subjective) wrongly. "The road to hell is paved with good intentions" etc.

Of course rape is a bad thing, but so is censorship. And in this case it's real censorship vs. fictional rape. Sure, the game could give people ideas and whatnot, but it is purely information.

Information alone never has been, is not, and never will be dangerous, except to people wishing power over others. It's all about how and why it is used, and restricting people from it is not the right way of allowing people to become better.

Once you allow censorship of things not considered "OK" by society, the door is wide open for people seeking to abuse censorship. It's a very slippery slope.

[RememberThe357]

Then the question is which is the greater sin rape or censorship? I would much rather be censored then raped.

Your making mental jumps that are very dangerous. Because our society decides that something is not OK does not mean that everything is up in the air and we're going to revert back to the old west. We all value our rights and freedom of press. That has not changed and it won't. Censoring the most crude acts of man will not open the door for complete censorship. There is a paranoia that is getting in the way of rational thought.

@Saaking 4.0

What a great question.

[Pebz]

But we're not talking about real rape here, that is the whole point. Also, censoring the existence of something does not make it go away either.

Between fictional rape (anything) and censorship? I'd say censorship is the greater "sin", infinitely so.

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Edit:

This very article actually illustrates perfectly how people give away their power and liberty, due to fear, by saying this:

"Amazon was right for banning the game from being sold on their site. Now if only some sort of official could step in and ensure that these sorts of games never make it to the market in the first place.
"

Basically saying that some official should have the power to decide what is to be allowed on the market and not. I'm sure you can see how this easily becomes a Catch 22-scenario.

[A_Little_Girl]

pebz is right, its only a game, no one gets hurt.

[TheAntiFanboy]

"I would much rather be censored then raped."

Uh, what? Are you saying that if this game doesn't get censored, you're gonna get raped? This argument makes no sense to me. The threat of you actually getting raped because of this game is implausible, but the threat of a game getting censored is very real. Regardless of how this thing turns out, you're not gonna get raped, so defending your stance with this argument makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

[darthkai]

The idea that you can objectively decided what is "good" and what is "bad" is far more dangerous than any perverted desire ever could be.

By saying that playing rape games is "bad", you objectify your opinion, leaving no room for doubt or correction. If instead, you said what you really mean, namely that you would prefer to live in a world without rape games, then you would see your statement for what it is, an opinion, a preference. You are by all means entitled to your preference, but trying to force others to obey it is the most best way to start fights, conflicts, wars...
I would love to live in a world without fat people, but you don't see me burning down any MacDonalds. As long as the actions of others do not directly harm us, we have no business telling them what to do.

"If you never encounter anything that upsets you, you are not living in a free society."

[orakga]

Don't believe me?

Countries with tighter censorship regulations tend to have higher rates of rape than those with more liberal censorship rules. Google it.

And I take that as proof that, in the absence of a venue to "vent" one's fantasies, people will choose to play it out in real life and actually commit that "fantasy" to people.

The argument that censorship will somehow prevent these crimes from being committed in real life is FLAWED.

But besides the criminal aspect of this, do you think incest and non-self-defensive murder should also be banned from fantasy art? Because then you'll lose about half of Shakespeare's novels from the English literature.

---

Also, by the same logic, all DEATHMATCH games should be banned, and so should real-life paintball parks. They all "condone" people killing each other. (don't give me the 'but it's self-defense' crap, because it isn't and you know it)

There goes Halo, CoD, Killzone 2, Gears, and *gasp* FAT PRINCESS!!! (Fat Princess gets two strikes because not only do you kill people, but you also feed women lots of cake; BAD)

[orakga]

"I would love to live in a world without fat people, but you don't see me burning down any MacDonalds."

Can I steal this idea for a future game design?
This is pure genius, and I'm sure it'll get at least 1 million pre-orders.

[RememberThe357]

And just to respond to darthkai directly; I'm not trying to say I'm a moral god or anything, but I think it is safe to say the a game where the goal is to rape is not OK.

I don't want to see mass censorship either but I think we, as a community need to regulate our selves. Why do you think Sony or Microsoft have not made a rape game? Because it's not cool. If there was nothing wrong with it and it made so much money, they would have both made the games by now.

The words "good" and "bad" are both objective (if that's the right word). So when I say something is "bad" I assume that it is going to be taken as such. I'm not trying to frame my opinions as fact, but rather state them with conviction so that you know I mean what I am saying.

I like having this debate because I don't understand why someone would want to pretend to rape an other person. I also know that most of you who are defending this game are doing so on principle and not because you actually want to play the game. That is why I have toned down the "sick f*cks" rhetoric of my fast comments.

To respond to orakga, I don't think censoring will prevent anything. I know that may sound contradictory but my point is not to glorify rape. The same can and was said about Man Hunt and Postal. They glorified murder and made it your goal. In games like Killzone or Gears, the goal is not necessarily to "murder". The goal is to complete an objective or eliminate a target. They may seem too similar to draw a line between them, but when it comes to the subconscious these relatively small differences are very important. Videogames don't change people or make them do things, but they can influence. I feel a certain way about this subject and believe it or not I've got a lot of love for everyone. I want to voice opposition against something that I see hurting my people.

All I ask is that my comments are read with thought and not blindness, which is something both of you have done and I appreciate that.

[orakga]

Interesting point... yes, I have to agree with you on that as well. I do believe it's wrong to glorify crimes, be it rape or murder (or theft, jaywalking or speeding (Need for Speed!), etc).

However, I think one of the misunderstanding/misinformatio n that skews the debate is the (incorrect) impression that these games are intended to "glorify" these acts. I *have* played these types of games in the past, out of sheer curiosity (and I was much younger and "hot" blooded), and what happens in these games are not as some think.

I'll name one series as an explicit example. This is one of the OG "rape" games, and it's called "Shusaku".

In this game, you are the janitor of a private girls-only boarding school, where you are mistreated/disrespected by all the rich/snobby students and teachers as a low-life trash, berated and insulted day in and day out. Over time, you grow a deep hatred toward these women, and are driven to "punishing" them by blackmailing them into having sex with you. But once the floodgates open, you can't stop yourself from continuing down this slippery slope, and end up going all the way with your "crimes" (it's almost like an X-Rated version of "Pokemon"!).

But the real irony is... Near the end of the game, you have a brief moment of moral clarity and find yourself at a dead end (a look-in-the-mirror moment), and are given a chance to go back to the times BEFORE you started doing all of this. And the real ending involves you choosing the higher road and living a happy (consensual) life with one of the kinder girls who'd always been nice toward you, and never having actually raped anyone.

I'm sorry if this is convoluted, but my point is that these games generally do not carry the message that "RAPE IS GOOD" (although I'm sure some of them apples are bad as well). They merely SIMULATE, and are fantasies/depictions of what would happen if you treaded that forbidden path.

If anything, these things would convince ANY reasonable person to be ASSURED of the fact that these acts SHOULD NOT be condoned in real life.

---

Let me give a few more examples; "Trainspotting". Watching that movie TERRIFIED me, and made me think twice about doing drugs. It showed people what the lives of druggies were really like; something that people wouldn't be able to see unless they treated that path themselves.

Or... CoD:Modern Warfare. Good lord, that game was so well done that it made me HATE war (anyone else?).

I realize you're not arguing that censorship will prevent crimes, so this is directed to some of the other ppl here; do you really think that banning fictional depiction of the lives of criminals (and thereby helping them see that there's no real happy ending) is the most effective way to go about preventing crimes?

I just disagree.

But I will still respect you if you cannot agree with me, just as long as you do not base your opinion on misinformation.

[Redempteur]

i'm sad to tell you this RememberThe357 , but the goal of rapelay is not rape at all , it happens in the first 10 minutes of the game AND that's IT !
The rest of the game is similar to countless others game to the same genre ... this is not a raping simulator or anything of the sort ...By NOT having enough information you're missing the point on why this game exist and why censorship shouldn't touch it ...

and similar to orakga before me , the game is not glorifying RAPE since you're only choice is to DIE. That 's right the game make you feel the consequences for your actions by getting killed in the process ... whatever path you choose while playing it ..

[Saaking]

wtf is this? Who the hell wants to rape women in video games?

[swiftshot93]

I agree. This is so dumb. I couldnt give 2 sh!ts about immersion or any of that BS. Raping women should not be in a video-game period. There is a line. If raping is the only way to enhance the immersion and gaming experience with-in a developer's game then the developer needs to set their priorities straight because raping women adds nothing to a game.

Its different for movies and books because you arent interacting with anyone.

[darthkai]

"If you never encounter anything that offends you, you're not living in a free society."

[Jrome]

"Its different for movies and books because you arent interacting with anyone."

Umm what? It's still filling your mind with the act though.

Think about the children O_O.

[Admiral_Benson]

Agreed. I can't believe people feel they can justify a game that sees raping and abusing women as a form of entertainment. Real or not, It's wrong on so many levels.

Moreover, the people buying and playing these games have fcuking issues. If you get your kicks from playing a game that involves taking sex from a woman (virtual or not) violently and by force then in my eyes you have serious social and pyschological problems.

Believe me, when someone you love and care about has to endure what this game condones as entertainment for real and you see the devestating effect it has on them then this $hit isn't even funny.

We all have wives, girlfriends, mothers, daughters and sisters and i would imagine nobody here would EVER want to see them have to go through something like that for real but god forbid that ever happens to any of you then come back and tell me you feel there's any justification for a game like this.

Rapists are scum and there is no place in the world for garbage like this.

Disagree to your hearts content, take my bubbles, whatever. The fact that this is even open for debate is fcuked up.

[orakga]

If people like you ruled the world, then we'd be missing out on masterpieces like "Dexter" and "Natural Born Killers".

Neither show/movie motivated me to go out killing people.

[Baka-akaB]

Being a bystander and a witness of something wrong doesnt make it right at all . That's sheer hypocrisy , if you're against depiction of rape , it should be in every medium .

[Admiral_Benson]

Lol. I have a perfectly open mind, i'm not some liberal prude that believes in banning everything, but this is rape........as interactive entertainment. There has to be a line somewhere and crap like this crosses it. You gotta be pretty twisted to take pleasure and enjoyment from a game like this.

Not only that, I love games and gaming in general and something like this brings nothing but negativity and bad press to the gaming community. People on here are saying that by banning this it would be open season on all games for censorship and i can kind of see there point in that regard but like i said there has to be a line somewhere. If there isn't then pretty much anything goes.

By your logic, if eveything should be allowed and nothing should be censored, if someone released a game that involved molesting and abusing kids you'd be cool with that? You'd justify that it should be allowed to be on sale to the general public?

[orakga]

"By your logic, if eveything should be allowed and nothing should be censored, if someone released a game that involved molesting and abusing kids you'd be cool with that? You'd justify that it should be allowed to be on sale to the general public?"

This is a great question. In fact, I ask myself this same question when trying to find "the line". My answer is as follows:

It should not be a crime to create FICTIONAL material, period. Please note that a GAME that depicts child molestation is NOT the same as Child Pornography (which refers to PHOTOGRAPHY involving children being molested in real life, AND actually requires that a crime is committed in the process).

It's like those movies that give you the disclaimer; "No actual animals were harmed during the production of this movie". It's fiction. It didn't happen.

The keyword here is FICTIONAL. I am all against child pornography (as in videotaped/photographed material) that involves under-aged individuals, but I think it's far more unjust to put someone in jail for writing about or drawing something, REGARDLESS OF WHAT IT IS.

FICTION should be off-limits for censorship, period.

Under-aged drinking/smoking is fine in fiction.
Political corruption is fine in fiction.
Infidelity is fine in fiction.
Incest is fine in fiction.
Smoking marijuana is fine in fiction.
Murder/assassination is fine in fiction.
Rape is fine in fiction.

Period. IMO.

[Baka-akaB]

Sorry but yeah it should be allowed . i probably would find it disgusting , as it would most likely serve no purpose other than shock or cather to psycho ... but it's like Orakga said above .

ERSB and all other stuff of the kind should only determine the suited public for a product , not if it's alright to sell or publish it .

[Admiral_Benson]

I can see where you're coming from in regard to the point that fiction shouldn't be censored and i do agree with what you're saying.

What annoys me in regards to this game is the context that it portrays the subject matter. It presents it soley as a form of interactive entertainment that the user would buy/play solely for the purpose of getting kicks from doing it.

If i go to see a movie that features a scene of rape or abuse and it's within the context of the film then i would still find it harrowing and unpleasant viewing but i could understand it's purpose within the film. I wouldn't call for it to be instantly banned or censored because it featured that scene, as it would be within the context of the film, to portray a shocking and harrowing experience that is in no way pleasurable or enjoyable and, as you rightly say, it is fiction.

The point i'm trying to make is i wouldn't go to see that film specifically to gain enjoyment or pleasure from that one particular scene. People who produce/buy/play this game have done so specifically for that reason and that reason alone, to gain a sense of pleasure and enjoyment through the act of rape and that is what i think is fcuked up about it.

I guess i went off on a bit of a rant in my first comment which was probably a uncalled for, everyone is entitled to their opinions (hey, that's why we're all on N4G!) but it just disappoints, angers and disgusts me that a game like this has ever came to be. I hate the subject matter and the people that take pleasure in it and i just think it tarnishes the gaming community and brings a bit of a bad vibe around it.

[Saaking]

It's just the bots since they want to live out their fantasies.

[zack61]

it's official you're retarded congratulations

[solidjun5]

this is not going to end well. Not at all.

[JonnyBigBoss]

I just got the game in the mail this morning. Installing now...

[Pennywise]

I don't condone rape... I will not play a game simulating rape. BUT - If we ban rape games, we need to ban violent games. Shooters, Bully, GTA, Fat Princess, really anything with gore and violence will be next.

Video games are fantasy fun. If we put restrictions on one type, we will have to ban them all. Then we will be stuck with Cooking Momma.

[cyguration]

made a game where you rape little kids you're saying it shouldn't be banned?

Why is it that censoring the extreme form of "entertainment" isn't okay and that all forms of entertainment must be banned? I think there should be limits and rape games cross the line.

[TheColbertinator]

@Cyguration

Yeah well in Deus Ex 2,you could kill kids and throw their corpses in dumpsters.Frankly to me it was just a game and its rated M for that reason

[samura]

"This is not a headline spinning or an editorial. It’s news. Unfortunate news for the gaming audience but news, nonetheless."

Yeah...Right. This is BS to start string of BS articles.
Don't they have anything better to write?

By posting these kinds of articles, you guys are publicizing these games.

[TheAntiFanboy]

Well that's the whole point. They want to spin the game as a bad thing. So yeah, they want to attract attention to the game, but they want to attract NEGATIVE attention.

[Baka-akaB]

but negative attention doesnt exist for porn , be it in game or otherwise .

it's just like posting a gigantic adboard on a freeway .

[Xistan]

this is considered news?
Get this sh!t off of here

[hulk_bash1987]

Welcome to the internets, this is all common place. Anonymity makes people fearless with their comments.

[JD_Shadow]

Oh, here we go!

[-x.Red.x-]

eff you reading the comments of N4G

(I do not condone raping, rape games, all that crap)

[Baka-akaB]

Again i dont condone rape by advocating for freedom and a game . Unless you babbons writers condone murders by playing games as well .

What i don't condone is morons getting a paycheck writing useless drivel about that game that was unknown outside of circles of freaks and curious since 2005 ... hence making the game a marketing campaign that could be even better than halo's , for free .

[samura]

Exactly.

[Jrome]

w00t people still have brains. Good post.

[Ninji]

I think rape games are awesome ;-D

But seriously, what a retard. Jack Thompson must be his idol.

Just replace the whole rape & sexual aspect with violence/murder in FPS games and you'll really see how stupid this article is.

[Ashriel]

context

[click 2 get virus]

hate women because you play a game??
i'm gonna go play gta4 and kill people, that doesn't mean i hate people

[Baka-akaB]

Where are the lynch mobs and pitchforks anyway when it comes to (fake) rape porn movies ? Arent those done pretty much anywhere anyway , and with REAL girls ?

it has been there longer , touch a bigger public and yet never heard of red flags or people suddenly passing bills ? Not as modern and edgy enough as bashing games eh ?

[samura]

You should stop wasting your time trying to convince people with logic.

Some people refuse to think.

[topdawg122]

This bullsh!t is stupid and anyone who even wants these type of games or even thinks about raping videogame characters has some real problems. Grow the f*ck up and get a real girlfriend and have some real sex. games are an interacitve experience and if this sh!t comes to games here then that is a real problem and a serious step down for the gaming industry.

[ZOMBIEMAN1]

here i am calling you out ha you say i should grow a pair because i PM you yet you block'd me i couldn't call you out because i reached my limit so here i am calling you out . if we gamers can accept games were we can kill a person than why not accept a rape game killing someone is worse than rapping someone you rape someone it's over in a few minutes and that person is still alive and if the person isn't sensitive and weak they can go on with there lives and live a normal life like my mom she was rapped but she didn't let it ruin her life and right now all gamers including you have a serious problem we have enjoyed games that promote violence , death , life of crime and more rape games won't make us worse so as i told you before grow a pair that goes for everyone who has a problem with rape games all of you have played GTA , Manhunt , Gears , COD and other violent games if you can accept ending life in games you can accept violating life in games

[topdawg122]

Zombieman
I blocked u for a reason. Obviously you think this is fine in games and it's even worse if it happened to tour mom and you're ok with it. Anyone who wants this in their games Gots a serious problem IMO. Gaming is what I love but this is a new low and I want our industry to be respected and this isn't helping. If u want to rape people in games by all means go ahead, but I ain't touchin that sh!t. That's my opinion now please me leave alone

[ZOMBIEMAN1]

the gaming industry will never be respected as long as ppl think games or for kids it will never be respected and you honestly don't see the big picture do you our gaming industry thrives upon murder simulators like COD4, GTA 4 , Assassin's Creed 2 and others tell me what all the biggest games this gen have in common they have us go around killing ppl and we enjoy it we take pleasure in killing we are already low rape simulators won't make us any lower so again grow a pair and stop being a pvssy that thinks rape simulators are disturbing chances are you own a GTA game or COD4 and planning to get Assassin's Creed 2 and MW2 murder simulators yet you have no problem with it you don't say these murder simulators are making the gaming industry look bad and we hitting a new low

[Arsenal4Ever]

i still disagree with making games based on rape. Why dont we make games on child violence then.

[Redempteur]

lol it already exist .. you just don't know it ...

That 's the same thing here
4 years ago , rapelay was released AND NO harm done .. nobody knew it unless a small part of the internet ... nobody raped anyone thanks for this game ... the same way nobody killed anyone BECAUSE OF GTA or HITMAN .

But then again it must perfectly fine for them to exist now since you don't know they exist ... yet .

Next time another 10 year old game will land on the desk of some other idiot wanting FAME and this ridiculous process will start again

[Jrome]

"The gaming community doesn't mind killing people in games"

Like wtf? Killing, stealing, rape, w/e it's all in games and movies. We should just ban them all if we're going to make a big deal out of this.

I mean PG used to be a teletubbies rating...now PG has violence,etc. As a society we are slowly allowing these things to become accepted. So if we're going to make a stand here, might as well make a stand against the issue as a whole.

They also have fake rape in porn...why aren't we going after them too?

[DreamcastFanboy]

Why would we want rape in games? Would it make it fun? No? Then why add it? and anyway this game is only feeding off shock value and nothing more.

Edit Yes it can ever heard of self defense?

[Jrome]

Why would you want to kill people in a game? Why do we have fun killing? Would you have fun killing irl?

EDIT

Rofl killing can be justified? Killing can be justified...if you're killing animals for food. Period.

[DreamcastFanboy]

Killing can be justified unlike rape.

[Baka-akaB]

There is hardly any justification for killing in a game ... and certainly not self defense .

You decided to use money so yo could enjoy killing in a game , there is no way out of this one .

And please guys spare us the crap about playing gta without stepping onto ants , breaking an egg , or some old lady's bones with your dashing and outstanding stolen new car . That's why you bought the games , the only ones we could really picture you trying to go on without a single kill would be the likes of metal gear and splinter cell , where it's par of the challenge and fun .

I also dont see the point of rape in any kind of media , but if you're going to censor whatever disturb your precious morality and virtue , then you better not be playing some gruesome nazi german from ww2 .

There will be no actual excuse and valid reason for doing so , except ... oh wait , it's not real and a game !!

[phalanx_mark]

the issue is not justifying a criminal act its about the nature of censorship.
look how the german government is banning "killerspeile"
if we are going to accept freedom we cant be too picky, if any game crosses a boundary it should be banned but to ban a genre is RIDICULOUS

[OldGamer]

I feel that if an artist(and imo game designers are artists) wants to create something that may be objectionable to others, they have that right. If someone wants to sell it, it is up to the consumers to decide if they want to participate.

It is not up to others to censor art just because they are offended by it. Part of being a free society is free speech.

Censorship, in any form, is the enemy of free speech.

That's all I have to say about it.

[phalanx_mark]

rape and murder are discusting acts but we should still allow games, films and books based on the subject, part of art and culture is allowing people to explore the dark side of human nature.
Who here hasn't had a pop at civilians in GTA4, i know i'm being an asshole but i dont know for sure unless i try it, its the same for these games too.

[iceman06]

Guess it took an OLD GAMER...to shed some light to the situation. I don't believe that ANYONE in here condones RAPE and MURDER as an action. But,FREE SPEECH (expression, etc.) comes at the price of sometimes disagreeing with what is expressed. If you don't like the particular form of expression, then you can choose to SHOW it by NOT participating in it. (whether it be a game, movie, anime, magazine, book, etc.) I would rather have it exist and ignore it completely, then to have the overreaching powers of oppression (censorship) extinguish the light of some OTHER truly great expression that it (the powers that be) feels that I don't need.

[GameScrubs]

You are ok with killing a whore on GTA after having sex to get your money back.

Enjoy the little sex scenes in Mass Effect and God of War

Even killing ppl in Postal, Gears, Killzone etc.

This believe it or not is just another form of entertainment just in a different media that you are used to.

This happens on...

Artwork
Videos
Comics
Books
AND
Games

Just because it appeared on a game all of a sudden your moral values step in and you state what we can or can't play.

If you guys allow this to get banned, then other stuff will get banned that shouldn't CENSORSHIP is not the answer. You know what you want and don't, you buy it if you want and if it bothers you then don't buy it.

Stopping others that might enjoy the game, just because it collides with your moral values is stupid and wrong.

HYPOCRITES!!!

[Gun_Senshi]

Its NOT rape at all!

[Danicus]

... does that mean I've sexually assaulted you? I essentially raped your dead forehead. Does that make me a necro-rapist?

Gamers are the last group to try and argue from a moral backbone. We've obviously proven it by our game genre purchases alone, so why do some gamers feel they have a leg to stand on when they start arguing from their self-convinced morally superior position?

At least Jack Thompson's honest when he spouts his views. Gamers should just accept the fact that in a morally ambiguous fantasy world, it's anarchy that's the most entertaining, and that's what we pay for when we escape reality.

[GarandShooter]

The free exchange of ideas should never be compromised, lest we wind up in an Orwellian future. Throughout history, the forcing of one's ideas onto others has never ended well.

I will show my disdain by not purchasing games that make such questionable decisions regarding their content, but will not feel that I have the right to live other's lives for them.

William Usher is a self-righteous, holier-than-thou, close-minded hit seeking douchebag. I do not say close-minded because he doesn't approve of the content of this game, but because of his finger pointing, accusations, generalizing and stereotyping of members of N4G and Destructoid (and I don't particularly care for Destructoid as a video game site).

I am ALWAYS of the opinion that the LESS government intervention, the BETTER.

I have no problem whatsoever with private companies (whether publically owned or not) choosing to not sell things they find offensive, or that they feel may alienate their clientele. Those choices remain in the hands of the person or persons responsible for the health and well being of said companies.

[Nateh8sYou]

...must not have hear of a little something called the "1st Amendment"

[Halo3 MLG Pro]

So many amateur journalists. :(

[pippoppow]

Against Rape sims. It is a vile act that no one should feel even remotely comfortable re-enacting in any way shape or form. Like someone else mentioned, will a child abuse sim be ok? How about a game where you go around sodomizing pets? Where do you draw the line. Also these games may actually wind up in kids hands like so many other adult only material. People forget many kids are web savvy and know how to get illegal copies.

[Baka-akaB]

then guess what ? Giving those game more attention than they deserves and banning them give them a little "shiny glow" that would attract said web savvy kids .

Seriously , some of you guys you need to frequent some games torrent trackers ... in some places the damn crappy game went from a few leechers and 1-2 seeders , to constantly thousands of downloads any time of the day , because it received so much attention .

It was ok for amazon to decide they shouldnt sell that crap , it's their rep and they've the right to decide what they sells ...
But the media circus that followed and keeps going on , only helped said disgusting and crappy game , in both legit sales and pirated copies .

[pippoppow]

Yeah, that shiny glow effect is unfortunate but this needs to be nipped in the bud. I believe most gamers (99%) want nothing to do with these kinds of games anyways. Pubs/Devs of these types of games need to know that these kinds of games will not be supported and will be banned from even seeing the light of day.

[Baka-akaB]

Lol it doesnt work that way , the more you forbid a material of entertainement or fiction , the more it will spread . it's that simple .

[cyguration]

Props to you dude.

And THANK YOU! I'm glad a few people here still show that gamers have dignity and respect for the opposite sex.

I will say this: The media attention should have been about banning these games from the start, it's not like Cinemablend is offering links to any of the rape simulators or publisher websites but petitioning to have the devs thrown out of the business should have been the first order of business.

I'm shocked that Destructoid was so lax about these games, it's almost as if they didn't mind them. 0_o

[PLAYSTATIONGENRATION]

MAke whatever kind of games u want its your right just like i dont have to buy it

[air1]

i would much rather play violent killing games than a rape game..

[Enigma_2099]

No. Most of us are just bitter because we haven't had any in a while. Me, I won't even let this woman's 5 kids stop me from talking to her.

Why no, we're not dating... why do you ask?

[iceman06]

Uhh...good luck bro...may the force be with you ALWAYS!!! Cuz your CASH won't!!!*L*

[Enigma_2099]

I'm in no position to raise a family that size. But I'm not going to let that stop me from being friends with her, of course.

[cyclindk]

I couldn't care less about these games, but why put things in such literal terms... one does what one needs to in order to beat the game... if that include simulated sexual assault, so be it (following that thread, the FPS genre should be retitled the Killing Spree genre) the same goes for every other game where a player commits acts that are otherwise deemed illegal in society.

[jacaranda]

Didn't you guys know that some of the developers in the game are
female. Don't over react it's just a game.

[cyclindk]

They were probably all threatened with rape if they didn't work on the game..

[HueyNewton2008]

These are the same no life, anti social and no sex having nerds who hate on HHG. But at the same time try to compare normal gaming violence, your typical shooting and beating up etc with raping women. They are different in sooooo many ways. I'm done with this site you morons are fking pathetic !!!! get a fking life. These fools don't appreciate women because they cant get a decent looking women other than their mothers to pay any attention to them.

[cyclindk]

I know you're brainless so you probably didn't realize it, but your comment is rather "antisocial," don't you think? No, no I guess you don't, do you?

"Your typical shooting and beating up," the stupidity in this statement astounds me; so once an ordinarily deplorable act has become typical in a society, it becomes.... acceptable? Riiiiight...

[GarandShooter]

You are aware that there are those who don't approve of this type of content in video games, and at the same time also don't approve of government intervention or censorship, aren't you?

[No_NaMe]

Never . Not even in a game!

[HueyNewton2008]

The highest level of retardation has been fully established on this site, by idiotic fanboys and pimple faced teenage nerds who have sat in their room all summer long playing games and jerking off. Remember the people make the place and people here are fking morons and losers. Oh well back to gamespot,1up or bitbag for news related to games.

Cya my wife is pregnant, i gotta help her get to bed then play a few games of NCAA football.

[00]

"its the way games have been made for decades and it has become acceptable to a certain extent"

so... it will take a few decades for rape in games to become "Acceptable"

[chad22hkd]

I don't understand people thinking that this is ok. This is as low as a human can go. If you have a fantasy about rape in a game, I'm sure you do in real life too. Games like that and people who thinks it's ok are just cruel. It's f-cking evil and sick! Things like this give me little hope for human society! I am as a n4g member 100% against this!

[topdawg122]

Agree with u 100%

[ZOMBIEMAN1]

so what is it any different from games like GTA4 you hypocrite hah that's what all of you are hypocrites you can enjoy murder simulators like GTA4 yet you are disgusted by rape simulators like Rapelay

[Etseix]

RAPELAY FTW! lol

hey, but, this ppl have a point, u can go around killing *innocent people* around GTA or be killing people just for fun (prototype), ur KILLING PEOPLE, now, why u think a rape game is so *sick*? erm........... from my point of view, i think is fun, i mean, u control a guy and u go raping a game? LOL
-hey girl im goin to stalk u until i can rape u muahaha!
- oh no mr, player 1, dont do it
-yes i will muahaha -rapes-

LOL games are virtual, u dont need to trust them, its like, if u were thinkin all Halo characs,enemies, are real and goin to come to earth :P but NO thats not it ;]

[ZOMBIEMAN1]

good to see someone whose not blinded to see that rape games ain't bad agreeing with me

[MagicAccent]

You are gamers aren't you? Then what is the problem?
It's a GAME.
Do you play Battlefield because you plan on going to war? No.
Do you play GTA because you're planning on running people over the next time you're out for a drive? I f*cking hope not.
Do you play rape games because you're likely to rape the first girl you see on the pavement? ...Again, no.

Why is that? Oh yea... It's because you know the difference between your 'fantasies'- however sick and twisted they might be- and 'real life'. That is why there are games. That is the PURPOSE of games. To experience something 'other' than real life.
Because if you can't separate those two places(Imaginary-Real), then you shouldn't be playing games in the first place.

It's so simple, what is there not to understand?

[atticusflinch]

Censorship, as an answer, is an oversimplification of the issues involved in the existence of pathetic games like this. The controversy is a convenient excuse to impose a black and white perspective into a nuanced forum. On another note, one significant difference between this game and those featuring blood steeped killing fields is the status of women in the world. Killing games usually feature one side killing the other (irrespective of gender, ethnicity, preference, etc). GTA offers a greater variety of violent acts than some (games), but the overt objectification of women is the essence of Rapelay. The androcentric aspects of Japanese history should not be denied here. Not that the West is without tarnish - lest we forget women did not receive the right to vote in the US until the passage of the 19th amendment in 1920, and have had to fight hard for workplace equality while still coming up short. It is not just murder versus rape, but the manner in which a society treats one portion of the demographic spectrum. It should be cited that, to the non-gaming world, the very interactivity of gaming elevates Rapelay above the passive nature of mere pornographic observation. Misogynism runs deep in modern institutional conditioning and games like this reinforce this oft ignored (especially by little boy gamers of all ages) inequity. Lastly, it could just as easily be argued that a rape simulation does not, in fact, offer a potential rapist a safe option. This type of deviant behavior is often based in an escalation of broken boundaries. Rapelay, in this context, would only motivate not obviate.

[Coolrah]

If you don't like it don't buy or Dl it. Its as simple as that. I can guarantee your best friend or neighbor or maybe even Boss has this game. People have sick and twisted fantasies. What better way to act it out on a game rather than on a real person.

I also love how no one is up in arms about Mass murdering in GTA or how you shoot countless people in COD4. Killing is never justifiable. Self Defense is basically you saying "My life is worth more than yours" So stop with the double standards people....Your all hypocrits

[Xiedo]

This subject really brings the "white knight" losers out of the woodwork.

These games are harmless. End of story. And FYI there are male rape games, too, so cut the misogyny crap.

[Big Boss Extreme]

ugh disgusting

[Ellessdee]

............... heheheh... hahahahahahahahahah...... oh man... pffffffff

[chad22hkd]

First of all you idiot. Who said I like GTA4. I find the crime and murder very tasteless. Its a game for the mindless retard gangsters. But you do have a valid point. I don't understand how murder is justified in some cases. I mean though most games are built around fighting some kind of evil bad guy. It's not just kill for the pleasure in it. There is some form of justice in it. Defeating the bad guys saving the planet etc. Not raping helpless girls. They should make a game about murdering stupid a$$holes who like playing rape games. Then murder would be justified. Anyways what losers have to get a girl on a video game. You cant get a real girl! Anyone who agrees with this trash needs therapy.

[Perkel]

lol soo everybody ! Let'S Play Teletubies the Game,...

immersion immersion immersion in second place for every game.

[Sheikh Yerbouti]

"N4G And Destructoid Contributors Don't Mind using Raping Women In Games to get Hits."

[Coolrah]

Don't be another fox and go and bash the game and not have even played. First of all the game punishes you for "raping" your victims so its not like its saying "OOOO GO RAPE ALL TEH WOMENS MUAHAHAHAH!!!" No the game actually has a story and a plot. Yes the game does feature rape but its only rape for a few mins.

I would like to address how this game is any worse than some of our best selling games. In GTA is killing half the people in the story line justified? I mean really? We americans thrive on violence and its a common thing. People in Asian countries thrive on sexual inuendos and other things we americans find "disgusting" You have to remeber though that the shoe is on the other foot and they find that how we like killing countless amounts of people in our shooters wrong.

Plus I wonder why we are even moaning about this game. Yeah rape is bad. If you don't like it don't buy it or Dl it. For the people who do let them buy it and don't bug them about it. As I see there not whining at you for playing GTA or Cod4