I guess if you ask some developers -- like Media Molecule, creators of LittleBigPlanet -- the PS3 isn't that hard to code games for, after all.
Obvious response. When developers have to worry about only one patform and only one game it's easier. "the PS3 isn't that hard to code games for, after all" in reference to what? 3rd party developer have a difference perspective than 1st party developers or developer making exclusive content for a single patform. This is the reason why some developers like kojima and square enix tend to keep games in a single platform. That's one 1st pages tend to be better or push the hardware more than 3rd party developers. As a software developers I can tell you that programming in not hard when that's what you do from 9-5 every day. But that does not mean Assembly is not harder than C and that C# is is not harder than HTML. Is programming for the PS3 hard? Depends who you ask. If you as a 1st party developer they will say no since that the only thing they do and has to do. If you as a 3rd party developer who's progamming for the wii and the 360 and it takes them more time and efford to produce the same on the PS3; duhh they will say is harder.
Keep in mind these guys coded for PC first. Their first project was a kung fu game using the HL2 engine.
that if third party devs just spend a little more time understanding the hardware, it wouldnt be that hard to program for. Its just a different architecture, therefore they need to get used to it. I say in about 2 years, even third party devs will be making the PS3 sing like an opera singer on the highest Octave. 3rd party devs are just being lazy and just porting over the 360 games to the PS3, but once they get some good experience with it, they will utilize the PS3's hardware. Its just a natural progression, and it will take time.
Why would you say they are being lazy?
You obviously have no Idea what it takes to make a game.
Use logic. 3rd party developers have more on their plates.
You see most if not all 1st party games are funded by SONY, meanting they only have to worry about making a good game, period.
3rd party developers have to worry about profits, they have to worry about the finantial implications of spending resources in projects.
3rd party developers for the most part have to work on multiple titles at the same time, most even making 3 games for 3 different platforms, that's 6 games.
Think about it, 1st party developer work in 1 game at a time for 1 patform. 3rd party developer have work more. Lazy? MY @$$.
Yes, sure you may say, but put other developers to work on those other patforms and games. righttttttttt.... who's going to pay for that? Specially when lets say making a game for the PS3 right now will not pay the bills. Also, they have to try to release the games at the sametime for all platforms.
You may ask but Kojima and square are 3rd party, ask youselve how many games are they working on?, for how many patforms are they releasing it, how much money Sony is paying them. Most 3rd party developers are on their own, Sony gives them $h!t, which is why they have to make the decistion of delaying the PS3 version so they can have more time to learn the platform. Don't compare 3rd developer with 1st party developer and accuse 3rd party developer, it's just very unfair.
dude, what's wrong with your common sense? get the fact, port games are bad... if they say that ps3 coding is fun, then you are not happy... if they say ps3 coding is sux... then that's what you want to hear rite?
articles that written just for what you want to hear is really bad you know... I have a bunch of that type of news enough in my country.
this industry is starting become dirty... if this continues like this, you gonna regret this. bias or not bias... we rather hear the truth... when you people supporting the bias articles... they will continues to write bias articles... r u getting the point?
just calm down.
if you like ryu, I'm not sure you can play that on xbox... not sure on 360... as I know the xbox controller is terrible for 2D fighting game...
let's fight when it's ready for online SF (doesn't matter on which platform.... but I prefer to use PS controller or joystick)
Sorry, Lazy and cheap. I'm tired of getting games that are half assed ports and being charged for it. They are not obligated to make games for different systems, its their choice. So if they develop a great game for one system, then why should the other consumers be cheated for each additional copy of the game made for the other consoles? That being the case then they should be 1st party developers.
I don't believe that the money these publishers and developers are making can't be used to hire an extra two or three programers that deal specifically with the other consoles. There are ways to delagate, but if you're unwilling to learn a new system to harness the fullest potential it offers then I guess what would be the point. You would release these titles make some money and slowly lose your fan base. (ubisoft)
I think Team Ninja(Ninja Gaiden Sigma)were talking about lazy developers in a recent interview. They aren't first party and develop for 360 and ps3.
Who cares which system is easier to work on? Most developers that can will choose to work with the system that sells their games best, even if it forces them to type code with their butt cheeks.
On another note, I don't think any captive developer would be stupid enough to publicly bad mouth the mother ship. We shouldn't expect these guys, or Bungie, Lionhead, Insomniac, Polyphony, etc. to ever go on record with something like "yes, this pizza box is a b**ch to code for, but (Sony/MS/Nintendo) owns our asses lock stock and barrel, so we're stuck with it." It's just not gonna happen.
quit with the babbling. The point is, if the 3rd party devs take some time getting used to the hardware, which in time they will, you will see that teh PS3 games will look much better in time. You are acting like you are this high class business man who has ran multi million dollar companies for a living, when all your doing is posting on some website about videogames. you are taking this too seriously dude, just relax, you are a very angry person. Dont you think in time, when those 3rd party devs work on the ps3, they will start finding things out on how to get the most out of the hardware. Just relax dude, i can see you screaming in real life, like your avatar is. Its just videogames. If Sony goes bankrupt, it is not going to kill me, and if MS has all the money in the world, its not gonna make you a millionaire.
You are contradicting yourself. "if the 3rd party devs take some time getting used to the hardware, which in time they will, you will see that teh PS3 games will look much better in time." I agree 100% on that. But, why do you think it will take for them to get use to it?
"You are acting like you are this high class business man who has ran multi million dollar companies for a living" I don't run the company I work for, but I am the lead developer and I work very close with project managers designing and assigning resources (including developers [programmers sucks as myself]). I know what it takes to make software; cause I make software for a living.
And no I am not angry.. justr trying to help you understand reality so you can learn a thing or two about the real world aside from using fanboy logic to explain when a project/game/software is taking longer to have the results people expect from the PS3.
The funny things about it is that you are not Wrong about what you are saying, "Dont you think in time, when those 3rd party devs work on the ps3, they will start finding things out on how to get the most out of the hardware".. but you think that they need more time because they are lazy which is not true... because I can tell you 3rd party developer are not in the business of giving jobs to lazy developers.
Ask yourself this, how come 1st developers tend to make better games? Thats a fact for all patforms... 3rd party developer need more time to learn about the PS3 because the platform requires it. Period.
Now if they would be making poor games for all platforms including the wii and the 360 then they are lazy.
"Well, 1st Party devs are under Sony's thumb, so their opinions don't count! They just say whatever Sony wants them to say."
-But what about 3rd party developers like Factor 5, Kojima Studios, Insomniac, etc? Surely they must be unbiased in their praise, right?-
"No! They don't make games for Xbox, so they're biased!"
-But Bladestar, Factor 5 was a Nintendo developer for two hardware generations. And even Kojima's team made an Xbox version of MGS2.-
"...n-n-NO! They're not making 360 titles right now, so they must be biased!!! They just say whatever Sony wants them to say."
-But even Team Ninja, a dedicated Xbox 1 and Xbox 360 developer, has had nothing but praise for the PS3's capabilities.-
".........well you're stupid!"
If you cant take the time to learn how to dev properly for a new system then don't bother at all . I would rather not have certain games than have poor efforts or lazy ass ports .Media Molecule and Team Ninja have both said the PS3 is not hard to program for so is it hard or not ? or maybe these guys are smarter than your average dev`s hey booboo :P
I loved reading this quote from Yosuke Hayashi
GI: What do you think of the PlayStation 3 as a whole, now that you’ve had a chance to work with it?
Hayashi: A lot of developers out there talk about how the PS3 is hard to develop for. And I think that that’s kind of an affront to the fans, because you paid your money and you own a PS3, and you pay the same money for a PS3 game as you would any other game. That’s not really looking at it from a consumer’s perspective. The fact of the matter is that the PS3, when pushed to the limits, can do some amazing things, and I’d like to have our game be one of those showcases, for that and say, “Look, this is what you can do with the hardware.” I think all those developers who are saying, “We don’t want to do a PS3 game,” or “It’s really difficult to do it,” should shut up and make their games. If you have time to complain about it, then you should be spending your time working on getting the most from the hardware. It’s really about, at the end of the day, showing what we can do as developers. Nobody is forcing us, nobody is saying, “You have to develop for the PS3.” We’re doing it because we want to, and because we know that there are people out there who have PS3s, and if we can get them to play our game then our goal is accomplished. We’d like to have Ninja Gaiden Sigma not only be a great game for the consumer but also as a message to the industry, to say, “Look, this can be done in 2007 on this hardware.” Hopefully, that can throw out a beacon for the rest of the industry.
He never says that programming for the PS3 is not difficult. He just says that if you are going to program for the PS3, don't complain about the difficulty. Read it again, seriously.
Your right he never said it was easy. What he did say was that it doesn't matter if its easy or hard. If your a developer and you choose to develop a game for a specific system you should do your best and quit making excuses. Considering he is a 3rd party developer and this is his first game on the PS3 and its going to be 1080p @60fps with full shadowing, a feat no game has delivered thus far on the PS3, he is delivering on what he is saying.
Meh ... people will learn to use this console's architecture. Look at what heavenly sword is doing. They're not even using the main ram when 2200 enimies are on the screen. They're letting one of the SPU's handle it all. People will get used to this "cell thing". Great things will come from this console.
Some people just like to hate. People scream GAMES NOW! GAMES NOW!
Right ... as if other consoles have had great first year titles. You're all gonna want a PS3. It just may not be this year.
That's the lad! The informed win :)
When reading that info I was totally amazaed. It's like all the other fanboys just totally miss it though. I'll prbably have to bear through another 1000 threads telling me the PS3 only has 256k ram this year.
256mb. PS. it is 512mb and we know that. Got 128mb flash memory as well...but that's different.
Go read the insomniac interview...you'll find more info there of why split is helpful...but it's much easier to stick with the HS info, as that is a fact. Ps. they might get the army upto 3000 all runing on one SPU ;)
I don't doubt the PS3 is difficult to develop for, at the moment at least. I'm sure any new system is difficult because you have to learn the strengths and structure. I don't mind Devs saying its tough, but when they cry about it and say they don't want to it just dissapoints me. It's your job to develop for. Isn't there any passion for one's work? Isn't there any drive to overcome the learning curve? Everyone seems to agree that Devs will have an easier time once they get used to it. So Devs should swallow this tough pill, and meet the challenge head on. Look at Sega with VF5 or Bethseda with Oblivion. Both of those Devs took my prescribe approach and look at the outstanding titles they created.
Time will show people that ps3 is a powerful machine that you has a differnt way of doing things. Like its predcessor. Ps3 is jsut as odd and 360 cannot do what ps3 can do.
Agree. The PS3 need a few months and probably 2 years to show how amazing it could be. Just look how the PS2 does this last month with the lasts triple A+ tittle just imagine how the PS3 will does *drools*.
it's more than... 360 don't have what ps3 had lol~
YOu people just like to disagree just for the heck of it. I am not batshing the PS3 nor I am trying to do. I am not saying that the PS3 sucks or anything like that.
All I am saying is that the PS3 may require more work to get it done right than the other consoles. Obviously some developers are better than others and this is not reflected on the games made this gen but in previous gens. That's why we can see the difference in games between capcom vs EA. It's a fact that some studios have better developers, have more money, etc. This is why many people are predicting that it will take a while before game development can mature in for the PS3 and are not saying the same for other platform.
If 1-4 developers say that making games for the PS3 is easy then the rest are lazy? Why wait until developers stop being lazy (2 years to be more specific) how about firing them? How about Sony increase their certification process to block these lazy developers games?
It's funny how you people think that these 3rd party developers want to not do a good job. Also, I don't know why are you using Team Ninja as an example that it's easly to make games for the PS3. Team Ninja is one of the best game development and the game that they are working on is a port their project is mostly technical.
EDIT: Actually, I will response from here.
The funny things is that I agree with 99% of the things you say.
I didn't think I was posting negative stuff about the PS3 in this since I don't think it has nothing to do with the PS3 not having enough power. The PS3 is the most powerful console ever made. Period, we all know that.
"sure, it may cost $10 million to develop a PS3 game now, but in a year or two, it will be down to, say, $7 million. then $5 million. at least if you are an efficient and savvy coder.
teams of 100 will be scaled down to teams of 50, as knowledge grows."
You enforced what i said before, "the PS3 may require more work to get it done right than the other consoles" mostly because the cell it's different than previous CPU most developers are familiar with.
I was just playing devils advocate for the developers that bring the games we play. Sometimes laziness is not the reason why games are not made the best way possible. 1st pary games for the PS3 are living proof of what the PS3 can do. Even on the 360 3rd party games tend to not push the limits of the consoles. I think is the nature and drawbacks of 3rd party games. It's not the same to make a game from the begining than to make ports. That's why 1st party games define the consoles.
Besides think about this... How come these very lazy developers as you guy are calling them, are making games for the 360 too. Why are they doing a better job at it? Do you think is a conspiracy to make the PS3 look bad? could of be that making games for the 360 is similar from making games for the original xbox? Is microsoft being a software company and having lots of experience making software development tools (.net, visual studio, directX) making it easier for developers to make their games? I don't know you come up with your own conclusions.
Bladestar - Besides think about this... How come these very lazy developers as you guy are calling them, are making games for the 360 too. Why are they doing a better job at it? Do you think is a conspiracy to make the PS3 look bad?
No but I would suggest that the 360 version of the game was created first and then the developer is porting it over to the PS3. The problem is they are not designing the game from the ground up on the PS3. That said we have seen the results of studios who have taken the time to do a proper job like Bethseda with Oblivion. The problem is there is no more money to be gained by taking the time when you look at it from a business perspective. Do you think Splinter Cell for the PS3 would have gained the studio alot more money if it had scored 8.5 and been identical in performance to the 360 rather then a 8.0 and having some differences in graphics? The answer is no and the simple fact is if you own a PS3 and want to play Splinter Cell your going to buy it regardless so hey as long as its close then why care? Especially from a developer /business decision. Thats always been the case for ports. Which ever system had the original it usually is the best version simply because it was designed from the ground up to work specifically on that platform.
To back this up all you have to do is look at Team Ninja. They have no experience what so ever with the PS3. They are creating Ninja Gaiden Sigma, I know you have stated that this is just a port of the original from the Xbox but that is simply not the case. All the graphical assets, game code etc will have been written from the ground up from scratch just as if it was the first time the game had been created. Sure they are using the original from the Xbox as a road map and as a template for what they are doing on the PS3 but thats all.
Thus comes the crux of all this. If you insist its a port then why can't other development companies do as good a job as these guys? I mean they are third party and are going to create a game that beats original first party games for the PS3.
If it is a truly unique code being designed form the ground up for the PS3 just as if it was an original game then again they have beaten the efforts of even first party developers. Its credit to a very talented team.
Bladestar- could of be that making games for the 360 is similar from making games for the original xbox? Is microsoft being a software company and having lots of experience making software development tools (.net, visual studio, directX) making it easier for developers to make their games?
Possible but alot of developers like to create their own game engines and development tools. Look at Gear of War the best looking game todate on the Xbox 360. Epic has their own engine and tools for creating games. They even sell them to developers making games for the Xbox 360 and PS3. I know in the past that MS has had better support for developers but this time around many have said that Sony has gotten alot better then they where with the PS2.
I agree that its not a case of developers being lazy. I think that's unfair to them. Its ultimatly comes down money. A development studio is not going to create 2 games from the ground up with the same name. They are going to design it on one system and then as best they can port it over to their second. The goal is to make it as close to the original within a certain time frame (cost). If its 90+ % to the original they accept this as good enough. Not becasue they are lazy but because they have to look at it from a cost profit perspective. If they are to spend more time and money to get the game to 100% or more then the original will this equal more sales? Probably not and thus why they don't. I mean I am a PS3 owner and if I want to play a game thats on both the 360 or the PS3 guess which version I am buying regardless of which looks slightly better. If I own both consoles I will buy which ever version is best from the 2. Again either way the game company is only going to sell one copy.
Where I have a problem is people like TopGamer, TheMart ect who use the differents in ports as proof that their system is the better and more powerful system. As you said yourself there are many third part games for the 360 that don't even come close to pushing the limits of what the 360 can do and many are ports to the PS3. So none of these games are true tests of what either console is capable of.
What I hope though is that 3rd party game developers start putting more time and money into getting the best game possible like Team Ninja. That when they do, do a port they spend the extra money to make sure all versions of the game look equal like Bethesda. While they may not see initial returns that justify the initial cost they will build a better relationship and reputation for awesome games, from gamers. The developers who don't do so may find gamers not buying their games. When we as gamers buy crap ports and crap games we are supporting that type of behavior. That's why I am very picky as to what I pick up for games. I only want to support game companies that do spectacular work. Guys like Epic, Insomniac, Team Ninja, Evolution, Naughty Dog, Ninja Theory, Square Enix, Kojima Productions. Even though they have done great work in the past I also just don't blindly buy their next game. They have to keep bring it every time. Nothing worse then buying a sequal to a great game only to find out its crap and they where just milking the rep from the previous version.
Easy for simple plat formers but im sure its difficult of complex games.
it's not just Sony developers saying the PS3 is a very capable machine.
Team Ninja (a Microsoft and X Box centric developer), have said numerous times that when you put in the effort to learn the intricacies of the platform, it's surprising what you can pull off.
Insomniac (2nd party, not owned by Sony, so they can say what the hell they want), have had nothing but praise for the PS3.
Kojima Productions (3rd party) have said positive things about the platform as well.
they don't say, "Oh, coding for the PS3 is apples and sunshine!" but what they do say is that you can't approach developing for it with the same mentality you've been using for the past 20 years. you can't bring legacy code to the table with the PS3, because it's a different beast than that.
i've been reading up on the Cell processor, and the things that it can do are rather impressive.
i mean, apparently, from what i've been hearing, each of the 7 SPUs (6 for games), have their own onboard RAM, so they don't even have to touch the main RAM at all!
just thinking about that one aspect of the Cell opens up a whole new door in terms of what they'll be able to pull of in a year or two.
we wonder why games like Ratchet and Clank, FFXIII, MGS4, etc, look as good as they do so early, it's because those developers have scrapped what they used to know, have started over, and are achieving fresh and amazing results.
while companies like EA and Activision b*tch and moan because they'll have to spend money and, *GASP* put some actual effort into the mediocre sh*t they crap out every few months or so, they b*tch and whine about the cost of development. when your company is posting profits of 1 billion dollars every year, you have no right to b*tch about development costs. so you can't go to Maui this year, or get that new Benz, big fricking deal.
continuing my tangent concering the cost of development, why doesn't anyone ever comment on this:
the cost of developing PS2 games was rather high as developers learned the hardware and came to grips with it.
after developing a game or two, however, they begin to implement what they have learned during that experience, and refine the process. they learn what to cut here, license an engine there, and, bottom line, just become more efficient.
sure, it may cost $10 million to develop a PS3 game now, but in a year or two, it will be down to, say, $7 million. then $5 million. at least if you are an efficient and savvy coder.
teams of 100 will be scaled down to teams of 50, as knowledge grows.
it happened with PS2 games. they cost less to develop now than they did originally, because of what i've illustrated before.
the same will apply to the PS3 and 360. they'll be able to spend less, yet still achieve the same results of, say, Gears of War, or MGS4, because their team will know better. knowledge comes with experience, especially in the gaming industry. but if you don't even want to *TRY* and learn the hardware, you'll always be at the back of pack when you finally have to work with it. those studios that have already put in time learning the PS3 will be the ones ushering in revolutionary gaming experiences, while companies like EA and Activision will continue to rely on their licensed drivel to make profit (and they will profit, certainly).
basically, the "games are so expensive to make, therefore we have to charge more," excuse isn't going to fly in a year or two's time.
hell, i don't even remember what the point of my post was.
anyway, Bladestar, i don't have any issues with you, personally, but i have noted that you are always the first to comment on a PS3 related article, and it's mostly always in a negative light, even on positive stories.
i'm sorry you can't respond back (as you've used up your bubbles), but it's no big deal anyway, just an observation i've had over the past few months.
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