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Submitted by Nineball2112 1873d ago | article

Microsoft's Project Natal Seeks Poetry in Motion

NYTimes: Microsoft's headline announcement at this year's E3 gaming conference was a motion-detection system housed in a sensor bar that plugs into your Xbox 360's ports. The pull-out-all-the stops unveiling included an on-stage appearance by Steven Spielberg who raved "I think what Microsoft is doing is not about reinventing the wheel. It's about no wheel at all."

I had my doubts.

First, we've all seen motion tracking before. Remember the Intel Play Me2Cam (1999)? How about Sony's EyeToy (2003), which offered several motion sensing party games for the PlayStation 2, (including a burglar alarm)? There was also Hasbro's ION (2006). Sony's PS3 PlayStation Eye (2007) came with motion games like Eye of Judgment. All came with big claims but limited success. (Project Natal, Xbox 360)

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Time Lord  +   1873d ago
Am sick of reading about this Natal
A- The guy looks like a douche playing burnout

B If it so 'Awesome' why didn't they let us see the game, to see how responsive it is.
#1 (Edited 1873d ago ) | Agree(7) | Disagree(12) | Report | Reply
Why dis  +   1873d ago
You are sick of reading about Natal? Why do you troll the articles about Natal then? It's popular so people write about it.
locos85  +   1873d ago
Honestly I don't think Natal is as revolutionary as the media is making it seem.

But if it works and its fun then great. I will be glad to pick it up at a reasonable price point.

I hope that micro doesn't treat this as new console it self and create game that only work with Natal but also games that are integrated with it.
Jim Hawking  +   1873d ago
Natal has issues
I said this in a previous post but I don't think many people saw it.

I have a degree in computer science and computer vision and I can tell you for a fact, some of the things that the natal wants to do is impossible with one camera. Natal can tell where your hands and feet are, which is cool, but in terms of actual 3d tracking, it is scientifically impossible to do with any less then 3 cameras (although you can fudge it with 2).

Essentially you are interacting with the games with your silhouette. Any fine detailing will be almost impossible since if your silhouette crosses itself it will get confused. There may be some neat apps but any hardcore gaming aps is going to be very hard to do. Aiming will be impossible since you can't detect the arc of the shot using a silhouette.

Sony's tech is a combination of the Wii and the Natal. It grants 3d positioning with the controller, controls with the buttons, and tracking with sensors and the camera, so more detail is possible. Sorry, but the Natal has some fundamental problems.

Also:
The Natal, at least so far, is not doing true body tracking. It is tracking the hands and feet (and head, and maybe pelvis), and using something called Inverse Kinematics (IK Solving, google it) to determine where the rest of the body is in 3D space. IK solving is never perfect and often leads to weird bugs where the limbs flail around, such as the "BAM there it is" bug.

I'm not saying this won't be worth buying, but for Christ sake do the industry a service and require some proof out of Microsoft before you buy into this.
#1.3 (Edited 1873d ago ) | Agree(9) | Disagree(7) | Report | Reply
Silellak  +   1873d ago
Response to B:

If you want to see someone playing Burnout with Natal AND see the screen, just go here:

http://www.latenightwithjim...

Response to A:

If you don't care about Natal, don't post in the news threads about it. What a fascinating concept. Ignoring something you don't like.

I also find it fascinating you don't want to hear anything more about Natal...yet you approved this story. Hoping some Sony fans will give you bubbles for posting an anti-MS post as the first reply to an article?

Sad, man. Just sad.
#1.4 (Edited 1873d ago ) | Agree(8) | Disagree(3) | Report | Reply
Why dis  +   1873d ago
SDF is working long hard overtime hours on the one. We have a record. I don't think the masses care what some anti msft kid or some fanatical man-boy thinks about Natal
butterfinger  +   1873d ago
Thanks, Silelak
That Jimmy Fallon vid was actually pretty impressive. I hope they can implement Natal into other pre-existing games. I really want it to work with a game like Fight Night Rd. 4.:)
Monchichi025  +   1873d ago
Wow....
I've never seen Sony Fanboys so scared of anything like this before! Any mention of Natal puts them in a frenzy.

It must be because it's generating so much Buzz that there scared that if it does possibly work, it's a Game changer like nothing else before. It's getting people who never talk about gaming to actually listen. Quite the oppisite of the Sony control which has generated no buzz.
Silellak  +   1873d ago
@1.6
Man, something like Fight Night would be fantastic.
maxcer  +   1872d ago
@1.3
"it is scientifically impossible to do with any less then 3 cameras (although you can fudge it with 2)."

im curious, i thought it did have 2 camera sensors...

hmm found this: http://chat.freeola.com/Gam...
"RGB camera, depth sensor, multi-array microphone, and custom processor running proprietary software"

all speculation aside, i think if this is done properly and has a good library of games at launch it might be worth looking into.
chaosatom  +   1872d ago
Natal doesn't even come out till the middle-end of 2010.
It's a neat concept, but still has a lot of loop holes.
Like the amount of space needed, the cost of the peripheral, the voice recognition system, the lag/accuracy of the device.

i actually think this will work out, but it doesn't make me go out and buy a 360 as of right now. MS hyping Natal this soon does make me a little suspicious, but it's what they do best.
#1.10 (Edited 1872d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
IdleLeeSiuLung  +   1872d ago
This technology is very much in it's infancy and there will be glitches/issues since it isn't perfect, but it really is a huge leap forward in terms of tracking accuracy in 3D space under any lighting condition.

If you watch the Late Night Show with Jimmy Fallon, you really witness the excitement and to some degree a positive surprise of the participant. This will open up a new way go game, but not necessarily replace, but maybe add to how you currently game right now.

I frankly was baffled at how it just immediately recognized another person jumping in. No re-calibration necessary.

In 10 years time, it is more than likely that this technology will be cheap enough to implement into TV's, stereo equipment and etc. You may no longer need the remote....
#1.11 (Edited 1872d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(3) | Report | Reply
beans  +   1872d ago
jim hawkings
"I can tell you for a fact, some of the things that the natal wants to do is impossible with one camera."

It uses two camera's.
Jim Hawking  +   1872d ago
Two cameras
In order to fudge it, the two cameras have to be in different places, like at 45 degree angles from the target, in order to do the tracking hack. Also the two cameras in the natal are two different types of cameras.

The point is that I think people are letting themselves believe that this thing can do way more then it possibly could. Sony fans did the same thing with the PS3 when it was first announced, this is no different.
Booch   1872d ago | Spam
beans  +   1872d ago
Jim Hawkings
Well I sure as heck didn't go to school for this so I'm just going to wait and see what happens. Good luck MS with your vision, and hopefully it works out good.
Qui-Gon Jim  +   1872d ago
Two cameras, but
They are only an inch or two apart. Not far enough for it get the parallax view necessary for real 3d imaging. The second camera is IR to 1) see in darkened rooms, and 2) it uses the IR camera somehow judge distances and make a guess at the 3d situation.
BYE  +   1873d ago
"We were not allowed to film the screen"

OK...
StanLee  +   1873d ago
It was demoed on Jimmy Fallon's late night show and it was impressive. It was all anyone could talk about the next day. Even local news affiliates were carrying the story. It's amazing how quickly Natal readjusts to the height of a new user. The technology isn't fake. It potential is quite impressive but frankly, as a gamer, I need the feedback that a controller gives. I saw them playing Burnout Paradise on Jimmy Fallon and I wouldn't enjoy playing a racing title this way.
butterfinger  +   1873d ago
Yeah...
that was the only thing that seemed pretty sketch about the whole thing. I'm hoping that this actually works well by the time they are ready to release it, and I think it's pretty cool that he was actually (allegedly) playing Burnout Paradise. I was afraid we were only going to be able to play cheesy little kid games.
StanLee  +   1873d ago
@ butterfinger
It's legit. It was demoed in front of the studio audience on Jimmy Fallon's show and in front of the television cameras and broadcasted. It works even on Burnout Paradise which wasn't developed to use Natal. Again, the problem is, you have no feedback from a controller or wheel which you can physically hold, so in my view it's a very detached experience. After the initial "wow" factor wears off, it's going to be a shallow experience.
#2.3 (Edited 1873d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
BYE  +   1872d ago
@StanLee

Then why they aren't cool with The New York Times filming...

On TV shows you can do rehearsals etc.

I just miss the confidence in their product in that clip.
#2.4 (Edited 1872d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
Qui-Gon Jim  +   1872d ago
watch carefully
You can see lag between the player's actions and what happens on screen. Why can't anybody avoid crashing the car?
Forrest Gump  +   1873d ago
"The cost was also not provided. "
I wonder why :) ?
Qui-Gon Jim  +   1872d ago
Michael Pachter predicts $50-$100
Depending on different conditions, of course. He says the camera is "not as advanced as you might think." Natal is mostly done in software.

Good news because then Nintendo may have to lower the price of the Wii, and i might buy one.
Gun_Senshi  +   1873d ago
Video Speaks for itself

and before you call me Sonyfanboy, because for fanboys here, everyone that says something against MS even though he is right gets sony fanboy. I am a PC Gamer Mainly, and Sony can stick their mote where the sun don't shine

hahaha check your comment history al lyou do is trolling and yo just joined n4g

Related video
#4 (Edited 1873d ago ) | Agree(5) | Disagree(5) | Report | Reply
NATAL-FTW  +   1873d ago
hahahaahah
I just check your comment history. 90% of your comments are on a NATAL topic and you are trying to convince people NATAL is fake and a rip off.

HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAAHAHAH AHAHAHAHA.

Let me guess, your mission is to stop the evil corporation that you know as Microsoft from brain washing us with Project Natal code name New World Order. Well I guess I will see you in the next 100 NATAL articles. : )
MicroSony4Life  +   1873d ago
@Gun Senshi
Calm down dude. I too just checked your comment history and your comment are very Anti 360, its one thing to enjoy one console but its another to hate the other.

Do you know what trolling is. Trolling is when you go on a 360 topic and start saying negative stuff about it, which is exactly what you do. I know both sides are bad but since NATAL was mentioned at E3 guys like you have been turning up your F@nboy level to code red.
#4.2 (Edited 1873d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(2) | Report | Reply
D4RkNIKON  +   1872d ago
OK.. So both of the above comments point out that gun_senshi is a trolling fanboy.. That being said, how come no one could respond to his video he posted. Haha it really does prove his point quite nicely. I love how every one is avoiding the obvious, Natal is a spin off of SONY products that span from PS2 to the PS3. Sony's motion controller will combine Natal tech with Wii mote tech to be the best of both worlds.

@NATAL_FTW You are such a troll yourself..
#4.3 (Edited 1872d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
Xi  +   1872d ago
the video shows nothing with regards to 1:1 motion, or 3d motion.
All of the videos that were posted show the game working on a 2d plane, and does not show the player movements being tracked in any form of 1:1 motion similar to natal... Nor does it show any facial recognition since the only part that it does show could easily just track for anyone moving in front of the camera.

There's your rebute, Happy?

Honestly, just leave natal alone if you don't like it.
#4.4 (Edited 1872d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
D4RkNIKON  +   1872d ago
lol for calling Natal 1:1 3D motion tracking. The thing is.. Natal is a cool concept. The PSeye is a cool concept. The hype and glorification that Natal is receiving is not justified. I mean the video posted above clearly proves that the same type of apps have existed years ago on the PS2. It just upsets me to see people blindly following the hype as if it is this is something that we have never seen before.
#4.5 (Edited 1872d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
KionicWarlord222  +   1873d ago
Ah..

Natal..
Gamer_Politics  +   1873d ago
Project Natal has took over the mainstream...thats exaclty what MS wanted...
Scrooge McDuck  +   1873d ago
yep they claim its going to take over wii doubt it. Old people not going to buy another system just 2 move they body if Wii Fit does what they want and no more lol.
Pennywise  +   1873d ago
I hope they do take over the Wii... but its not for me at all. Keep this tech far away from my games.

I have a hard enough time slinging my controller with RagDoll Kung Fu. The only way to control the game is constant moving? Count me out!
Godmars290  +   1873d ago
Shouldn't they be trying to make "Poetry in Motion?"
Shouldn't it say something that MS is looking to others to prove the worth of something they "created?"

Seriously, MS want to lead the market in gaming, yet none of their 1st party studios have yet to make good games. That Bungie had to leave yet still makes Halo games says something.
#7 (Edited 1873d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(5) | Report | Reply
Pennywise  +   1873d ago
This is poetry in motion? Seems more like a second graders attempt at poetry.

If this was poetry, it isnt a poem anyone would remember in the future.
Godmars290  +   1872d ago
Lets just forget who's going to be making the motion, shall we?
Either ten year olds, or like MS wants, sixty year olds. Forty year old guys w/bar bellies.

I don't want to imagine those horrors...
Counter Strike  +   1873d ago
Project Natal apears on British Journal.
Along with Halo 3 ODST and Halo Reach.

Nothing about Sony...
Pennywise  +   1873d ago
The British Journal?? Uhoh Sony must be doomed.
butterfinger  +   1873d ago
OK.
And your point was? I've personally never heard of British Journal, but I guess it's only the people from Britain that would read it. I live in North America, where the 360 still matters.
Pennywise  +   1873d ago
If I had to do that to play a game I would quit gaming...

That guy looked like a complete DB and I dont think he felt much better about it either.

Sorry guys, Just because there is no controller, doesnt mean its better. I would take a steering wheel accessory over this any day. It make your driving simulation more realistic.

Everything I have seen so far does not put this thing so far ahead of the PSeye that everyone is raving about it. As usual MS copies and adds their own spin on it. I really do not understand why you supposed hardcore guys are all pumped about this. The eye sucks and so will this. Give me a controller or M/KB any day over this embarrassing way of gaming. This will never be as responsive as a controller.
cliffbo  +   1873d ago
if it worked MS would have allowed the video of the game to be shown. end of. it's a total load of PR bull
Xi  +   1872d ago
or...
they don't want to show gameplay because they want to save it for marketing, like on the project natal youtube page, and late night show...
Counter Strike  +   1873d ago
"The British Journal?? Uhoh Sony must be doomed"
iTs doomed many time ago...
Pennywise  +   1872d ago
Many time ago? Please tell me you are 5yrs old or just learning English.
ps3gogetitt  +   1872d ago
BEST Media Quote yet
Microsoft incorporate this

"Project Natal is worth keeping an eye on, if for no other reason than it seems to be able to keep an eye on you."
D4RkNIKON  +   1872d ago
That quote is more fitting for the Playstation Eye. Being that it has "Eye" right in the name. Natal Should stick with the slogan "BAM! there it is!"
da720izcumin  +   1872d ago
natal is the future
and poetry in motion it will acquire!!!
natal will make sony fanboys switch camps....
even their beloved nasim will come to the good side.
D4RkNIKON  +   1872d ago
Keep dreaming, this has casual gaming written all over it. What makes you think it will attract the core market that Sony has? Natal doesn't even interest me let alone make me want to turn my back on my beloved PS3. Keep acting like Natal is the second coming of Christ and I will keep acting like it is the MS version of the last gen PS2 eye toy that it is...
#13.1 (Edited 1872d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
Yomiro  +   1872d ago
Why those guys doing the demonstration from the late night jimmy fallon show are wearing a red overall?....I just curious

http://www.latenightwithjim...

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