Part 2 of Gamertag Radio's exclusive video interview with Aaron Greenberg from Microsoft. Today he talks about Project Natal and how this camera also works in the dark.
kudos for Aaron green burg .
That would be handy. I use a HD projector for my gaming so the room has to be more or less as dark as I can make it. I was worried about if this would work in low light conditions. Now let's see how they put it to use in actual gaming. That's what it all boils down to.
didnt they say this already ... it runs on infra red or something
the only problem is that it costs 200 USD LOL
He has look on his face like back the Fck off with the abnormal pessimistic criticism, I'm not just talking about Natal but 360 being maxed out, 360 has nothing and the fanboys in general.
Lies and Secrecy work best in the dark. Just ask my girlfriend. erm..ex* :]
"the only problem is that it costs 200 USD LOL" Fixed that for you.
hes lost some weight.
It has to work in the dark, what better way to hide the M$ employee controlling the alleged AI character.
Somebody call the Whaaaaaaaambulance!
i wud guess they're using something like a night vision filter.. either way, would defo be cool if it worked 100% in the dark! i wonder tho how much of Milo is true coz every one of MS people is like "omgs!!! it works" but well, it has been proven that it's not 100% real, most likely all of it is acted! either way, props to peter molyneux's team if they get it to work 100% like in the final build! greeetzz
Even as an xbox fan but seriously, who gives a flying f**k? I'm really starting to see where the hatred towards xbox comes from... they really need to get some better PR people.
huh! what did he say that was so offensive? [email protected] Why o why: Honestly i think you guys invest too much time in the gaming industry that you guys don't realize that what all these guys say about one another is standard industry practice. "Porsche accused the Japanese auto maker of perpetrating fraud by using non-standard, semi-slick tires when it was unable to come close to Nissan's lap time" "in a statement that cheekily recommended following proper break-in procedures and offered to give all prospective GT-R owners as well as auto manufacturers GT-R driving lessons." http://www.worldcarfans.com... I actually have the magazine where Nissans CEO said that they are willing to give Porsche drivers driving lessons so that they can achieve those lap[times in their GTR.Has Aaron Greenburg said anything that terrible? Now guess what, Car enthusiast just laugh over the whole drams and are waiting to see the real victor.WHy can't so called gamers be like that?Don't even pretend to say you would have hated him as much if he worked for Sony.Afterall sony fanboy's love Ken Kutaragi and Aaron Greenburg does not hold a candle to Ken when it comes to talking sh*t.
its wrong to judge people on their faces but i think its his face he doesnt like plus the fact that he more often than not has the competitions name in his mouth a lot. We know his job is to 'big up' but he doesnt need to 'put down' as much as he does. Can you believe this guy said the ps3 sales were hemorrhaging..Anyway its fine that he's selling a product...ive no issue with that at all just the other stuff that people used to label sony 'arrogant' for yet turn a blind eye when he's the offender. Ill just take his speak for what it is....speak...nothing offensive. Ill judge natal when its released.
Standard or not, it doesn't mean you have to like the guy. It's standard practice in warfare to kill other people, doesn't mean you have to like it. Anyway, on topic, the fact that it works in the dark really isn't that impressive. It's just using IR. Who plays in the dark anyway? It's bad for your eyes.
"who gives a flying f**k" Well, people who tried to use eyetoy in anything other than a perfectly lit soundstage... that's who. Anyone who claims Natal is nothing more than a copycat eyetoy has no clue what they are talking about. Eyetoy is a USB camera and a microphone... and nothing more. The software analyzes movement on a 2d image sent from the camera and filters out everything else it deems to have not moved. Then, it passes the coordinates of movement in a 2 dimensional array for processing. Natal, from what I ascertain, detects movement not from ambient light but by scanning the space in front of the camera using the infrared light it emits itself. That's significant. This allows it to calculate the rough geometry of a person's body or anything else in front of the camera. This means, Natal works no matter how the room is lit... unlike eyetoy, which is notoriously finicky. Let me put that in laymans terms. Eyetoy = 2D camera. Natal = 3D camera. There is nothing Eyetoy could do to become a 3D camera. It will not work, and no amount of faith in Sony will make the impossible possible.
you said Why o why: Honestly i think you guys invest too much time in the gaming industry that you guys don't realize that what all these guys say about one another is standard industry practice but i already said Anyway its fine that he's selling a product...ive no issue with that at all just the other stuff that people used to label sony 'arrogant' for yet turn a blind eye when he's the offender. Ill just take his speak for what it is....speak...nothing offensive. Ill judge natal when its released. Ill add that just because others do it doesnt make it right. Thats not the way to live or a good impression to set by any org. I dont like it if sony nintendo nike porche mcvities rolex do it. It just lacks class BUT again, ive no issue with what he's said here but his name is tainted because of his flappy arrogant mouth. Good luck if the camera can see in the dark.....thats really not the issue i first see when i see the camera.... Its almost like saying this car can reach 220mph but we cant find the wheels to fit it. The tech is ambitious but definitely not pioneering. What will be the acid test is its application. Can you actually play games on this apart from the casual ones?? How much will it cost?? How long will it take before its in our hands??. nightvision is really not that high up on my questions list. About ken....Even though he has been at the top, you know actually WON a console war, been a champ (IF there needs to be 1 winner) he is/was still arrogant...I dont like it. Stop flipping it into a sony MS thing because i feel u can be above that. It doesnt matter who's done what first arrogance is arrogance and saying ken said x amount of BS and saying nothing like that about AG is very hypocritical, why one rule for one and another for somebody else @edgeofblade eyetoy is the old one...its the pseye now, its...you know...for this gens ps
EdgeofBlade, are you talking about the PS2 Eyetoy? Because, yeah, that was a bit pants. But then you'd expect that from last gen tech. And yeah, the PS Eye doesn't do 3D, but the Motion Controllers do. EDIT: Hmm, seems someone disagrees that the PS2 Eye Toy wasn't all that great. We have a PS2 fanboy in the house. XD
The PS3 motion controller showed someone controlling objects in 3D space. Also the sword shield thing seemed 3D. He was pointing the sword with surprising accuracy. I'm not saying your wrong or anything, I'm just saying a lot of the power behind something like this comes from the software. Sony is still using the eyetoy to manipulate things in 3D space despite it being a 2D camera. Also I assume the lights on the PS3 motion controller cure the eyetoy darkness issue. Anyway, I'm just a Natal pessimist I guess. I don't really see a whole lot of 'hardcore' gaming applications. The little ad they showed totally made me hate it. Nobody wants to drive a car without a steering wheel, and having someone else change the tire in that mini game made me throw up in my mouth a little. The menu applications and voice commands were cool, but I'll have to see a game use it to get my head around it I guess.
Just to LOL xD
Did he say: "It's definitely never been done before"??? Talking about controller free gaming? Its one thing to be oblivious to the rest of the gaming world. Its another thing to be so ignorant as one of the heads of MS PR to not acknowledge that Sony did this on the PS2 and they are just expanding on it. Grrenturd FTL.
i think when he says controller free gaming he means it... for eg.. turn the console on ... stand in front of ur console get signed in after natal recognises u ... select the game/ option from nxe (minority report style) ... start the game ... and start play... all done without using a controller ... when he means controller free gaming it REALLY is controller free
OMG huge news from Turdman
Wonder how many accidents thats going to cause :p Seriously though, they haven't given a release date for it, yet I understand they've already sent out kits just like Sony has?
If they've JUST sent out kits, chances are any games that are really going to make use of it are only in the planning stages. Right now, all the top devs are probably playing with it to see what it can do and how they could incorporate it into their games.
I was thinking the exact same thing. If people break TV's with a wiimote what will happen with multiple people flailing themselves around a room? Two player 'Ricochet' just conjures images of people colliding into each other and accidentally slapping each other in the face.
did it work only in the dark? with tv set off? or only in Greenburger's wet dreams? Stop pissing people off. Natal will never be precise enuff with camera only ... it is not possible ... only if MS will pay enuf to mother-nature to cancel physics (optics) laws =))))
Precise enough...for what? You can't say "it'll never be precise enough" because you're missing out a hell of a lot of context. Lets assume that it's not as precise as Sony's (which, to be fair, is probably a fair comment), what about the wiimote? From all the videos, it looks like it's actually more precise than a standard Wiimote and that's certainly "precise enough" for most Wii games. Furthermore, you're not just limited to what is essentially a fancy stick. Sony's example looks great for specific tasks, like the sword thing and such, but what about a racing game? Would it work well as a steering wheel? It's things like that which will probably make Natal stand out, its versatility more than anything else. Still, it's very early days yet, both Sony and Microsoft only really had tech demos to show off so anyone truly commenting on which is "better" is just being a fanboy. Both technologies will have their uses, but we wont really know what they are for many months to come, so just sit back and enjoy the ride. Also, apparently you didn't go to the same lectures on Physics as everyone else. Guess what optics use? Light. Guess what speed radio waves travel at? (As in, the radio waves the Wiimote/PSthingywithnoname transmits its gyroscope data with) Light. And guess what Sony's Motion device uses for that extra bit of precision - I'll give you a hint, it involves a camera - a big, glowing ball of...light. The laws of physics have absolutely nothing to do with what differs these two technologies.
It also works in the dark, is 3-D on 2-D(check milo) and is the future of technology all for an unconfirmed price expected at $100
Is that some devs might require a controller in tandem for it. Love to hear Greenberg cover for that one.
teach those ps3 owners whos boss
it can even work in the hell... but this remain a crappy faulty FAKE project ;D Simply.
why people tend to believe in Santa? While Pentagon spend billions to create really working "friend-foe" system based on live picture analysis, Microsoft offers a precise system equipped with only a low-res camera to scan and interact with a such complex object like human body.... What about problems with multi focusing? Voice recognition ... sorry but MS doesnt have any technology that can clearly understand all spectres of human types of voices or even intonations. Good example here http://www.youtube.com/watc...
Awesome! A must have feature for any type of controller. The reason things like the PS2 EyeToy and PS3 Eye are inferior beyond just the better control, depth, etc. I'm glad they are taking the different approach versus the waggle wand dildo special.
People are talking a lot about how this is 'great tech' but none of that will matter if it isn't implemented well in a good game. I honestly can't see the capabilities of a technology like this in the core gaming market. I saw some cool examples in the PS3 motion controller sword/shield, flashlight (silent hill anyone?), etc. but Natal showed a wheel-less driving game, a horrible dodgeball game and a skate board game which I honestly couldn't figure out how you would steer, or play for longer than 15 minutes. And Milo is 'Seaman' from the Dreamcast with a small child (and obvious improvements). Honestly they shouldn't have set the bar that high for themselves because there is no way in hel1 that they can program the AI so thoroughly that it would understand "presenting to 1000's of people". I need to see a REAL game use Natal before I'll believe any of "best thing since sliced bread" BS. At least show me a demo of a hardcore game application (maybe there is one and I just blocked it out?).
Oh wow, enemy crab is downplaying Sony technology and praising Microsoft's. Surprise!!!
your the biggest fanboy i've seen. every bit of news you make some comment about how good xbox is compared to ps3.
gamespot omg 1up amazing ign wow gamepro nuts and ms wins thise e3 in every website
do many realize that about time this comes out, it will cost close to a Core 360 ??? AND it has to be added to a 360... really into the tek demo of Natal....just got to put it in perspective.. hey my civic will do 180 MPH....all I have to do is add 1000 bucks worth of NOX equipment....
I was worried I would only be able to talk to my virtual 10 year old with the lights ON
I can't help but feel that this really won't help allay those reports of sexual harassment and pedophilia on XBL. And yes, I know you're referring to Milo and not real 10 year old boys.
I have periphery knowledge about CV (computer vision) matter so my comments should be taken as such (i.e. more weight than someone w/o any and less than an expert in the field). MS is the acknowledged leader in CV algorithms. They've been working on this problem (and it is a very large and very complex one) for the last 7 years at least. They have such a huge lead in the field that IBM has given up on the field altogether and turned out their code to open source. They (MS) have a highly staffed CV lab set up in China and whichever CV conferences they they enter, their representative usually gets the top billing. The problem that they are addressing with Natal is multifolds: 1) 2D vs. 3D. 2D is cheaper but less accurate. 3D is much more complicated and tend to require a dedicated processor (i.e. not just software but HW + SW) to accomplish in real time. This is why you see two cameras. Without 2 separate cameras, you will only be able to approximate the 3D image and only with a lot of processing overhead. 2) Object tracking/segementation. Normally, this means object identification (a big problem by itself) but in Natal's case, it also means object segementation. This is a much harder problem to address and would definitely not be possible to do on a 2D environment. Seems to be that the reason they have 3D processing is to allow for object segmentation to take place. This is a big big deal. If nothing else, their algorithm to make this happen is in my opinion the "secret sauce" to Natal. Also a big help in addressing occlusion detection (when one object moves in front of another object in camera's field of view). 3) Low light tracking. This is also a large issue. Smartly, they've decided to negate the problem by including infrared capabilities into their camera. Very smart. 4) Facial recognition. With the segmentation capabilities and the 3D tracking capabilities, this is not such a big deal. Usually, the facial features are segemented and ratio between the segments are used to derive a facial match. With 3D + Segmentation + low light, they can get pretty good results even without the user standing right in front. 5) SDK. I'm amazed that they can ship out an SDK this soon. The quality of MS SDK's are usually top notch. For them to crank one out so soon is incredible. It actually says to me that they've been working on this solution for quite sometime; well over 2 years (more like 4 years) in my estimation. Sometimes, the best way for a new entrant to get a leg up is through examination of existing SDK's. You can be sure that not just Sony and Nintendo, but Google, Yahoo, Apple, Oracle, IBM and all others big players in the market are looking at the SDK with their best. 6) extras: voice recognition, etc. This is not something that others in the console field (Sony, Nintendo) can just tack on. MS already has a very robust set of algorithms for voice functionality as well. 7) Price: taken separately, the technology that's included usually carries a price tag of about 2K to 3K per camera installation (that is infrared + 3D without segementation). Throw in facial recognition, you can add another 1K or so. SDK will be another 50K in per seat fashion. I'm not sure what MS is charging for the SDK (probably nothing), but if they want it to succeed, they'd better add Live Gold account as a prereq or else they'll be losing their shirt on each Natal sold. I'm hoping for a $100 price point!!! BTW, look for this to come to a Windows7/Vista near you!
There's SO much potential.. i'm just scared they're going to ruin it all on wii rip-offs. They could truly do some groundbreaking stuff here (like that guy on youtube who did that picture-frame/glasses-less 3d thing with the wii setup) and I really hope they don't waste the potential.
He's working for MS now: http://www.infendo.com/wii/... http://www.infendo.com/wii/... 3D spatial mapping with head tracking will be a good bonus to have. Very doable now without the silly looking wiimote-on-helmet contraption. Personally, I'm looking forward to the next iteration when they get the hand gesture recongnition down. Perhaps they have this already but I'm sure the resolution is probably not all there. Think about it, virtual keyboards so that inventory retrieval in an RPG is real time! No more timeouts allowed during RPG combat. Could prove to be very stressful but very engaging.
http://procrastineering.blo... Informative in generalities but no details (sigh)...
Man, you sure are on top of your sh!t lol. Good to see they picked him up, that means the idea can at least permeate into the project. Even simply applying that to an FPS would be amazing, and that's not taking into account the possible gameplay applications, like making a motion to trigger a melee attack or something.. and that's just for FPS games. I feel like it wouldn't be a stretch to do it with two players, either, like assign one head to one part of the split screen.
Greenberg: "it also knows when you're masturbating, and sends a video capture directly to Microsoft's central office"
i couldn't think of anything creepier than a middle aged man playing with milo in the dark.
N4G is a community of gamers posting and discussing the latest game news. It’s part of NewsBoiler, a network of social news sites covering today’s pop culture.