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Project Natal - Controller(less) Issues

Ecks of The Gaming Dungeon takes a look at Project Natal, and the unwarranted optimism gamers have for the device

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Milky3116d ago

I agree with this article completely. There are obvious flaws that people aren't seeing.

Defectiv3_Detectiv33116d ago (Edited 3116d ago )

But Sony was right, what they said during their Motion Tech demonstration. You need something tangible. You need some kind of feedback. Whether if be a joystick or a pressure sensitive button.

W/O some form of controller, you aren't playing the game, the game is playing you.

D4RkNIKON3116d ago

false.. They said that you move your foot forward and backward to gas and brake, but he said it is either full throttle or dead stop. The turbo or boost is used by faking a gear shift. The said that it had it's flaws but burnout was not created for these controls. They would have to have some sort of controller to make most games work. Also, why would you want to play with air so to speak instead of an actual GT Steering Wheel? Who argues that this will be more or equal accuracy to a controller or steering wheel?

Rainstorm813116d ago

Natal creators at MS just had an interview saying they would have games using Natal and a controller.

"Then you'll have some games that are essentially a hybrid - games that work both with the controller and with Natal. Why is that interesting? Think about a first-person shooter where I'm using the controller but I'm doing facial tracking by just moving around and looking round corners.

Or you could have a hardcore gamer like me playing a game with a controller, while a non-hardcore person sitting next to me enjoys the experience by playing with Natal."
http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

Fanboys are like Monkeys just throwin monkey shyt at each other.

I support PS3 for my reasons but use your brain for some of these articles.

derseb3116d ago

I agree this article nails it down. This will never work with any games that require precision (real computergames).

There is a reason Sony uses the glowing ball. I believe them when they say their system recognizes it and can lock it's position accurately. It is easily distinguishable from the background and looks the same from all angles... it's a glowing round ball!!

However a hand or a body always looks different, there is no way they can compensate that with precision...

Why dis3116d ago (Edited 3116d ago )

The haters will make selective observations about this tech and will write articles downplaying it they've been doing that ever since it was shown. I'm getting sick of all these articles trying to downplay all of MSFT's showings just because Sony lost E3. I see a waggle stick thats more advanced that anything shown to come with Natal.

Ju3116d ago

You mean, something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watc... ? Won't work, because not everybody has a camera.

Heck, we can't even get studios to support mouse and keyboard even though this is supported by the (PS3) firmware and KB are cheap and available.

JokesOnYou3116d ago

yeah, so we should all join the sony loyalists and scream its "Impossible", despite many sites with hands on saying it works well with what they played at this *early stage. lmfao=

JOY

kevoncox3116d ago

That was always my repsonse to questions abot a controller. Why can't you use Natal and the controller.

Picture you are playing ME and you walk into a room with a chracter your need to talk to. Natal kicks into a Milo situation where you have to speak to this villian. On screen will have you typical 3 statments of what you must say but the kick is because we are all different. The villians response will depend on not only which choice you read but also how you read it.

Natal can be used to put your face in the game. Natal can be used to greet you when yo start the game. What would be better than saying "ENGAGE" like Picard to go to a planet. " Make it so #1"

Blaze9293116d ago

Microsoft said that there will be games that use Natal, use Natal and a standard 360 controller, or just a controller alone.

Problem solved.

Sharingan_no_Kakashi3116d ago

Eye toy failed. So will Natal. The guys behind Eye Toy realized that somethings you just need a controller for. Thats why they made the motion controller to go in conjunction with the psEye. Microsoft took the credit from Sony for being the first to "destroy the barrier of controllers". That's fine. Just be sure to take the failure that comes with it.

Why dis3116d ago

Its legit to you because you are a PS3 fanboy and fear it will revolution gameing making MSFT an unstoppable force. What was shown was just a small window of the tech lol

Sharingan_no_Kakashi3116d ago

Yea sure of course it will. With that imagination trailer and that Milo game that's "designed with Herbert the P3rv3rt in mind"

Why o why3116d ago (Edited 3116d ago )

dude, you really should get that chip off your shoulder man and remember the slogan that made your avatar famous. The tech is allowed to NOT be perfect. People are allowed to have opinions that may criticize aspects. Not all of these are raised by sony affiliates. Some of the issues raised are totally logical. In the end these issues may be irrelevant when we are playing the games tailored for it but as of now from what we have/havent seen there are indeed issues for GAMING, chill out. Go scream at the writer furthermore do you disagree with everything the guy writes or are your defensive comments involuntary...jeese.

Personally i can see some issues but only in terms of the limitations by not having anything tangible/with buttons. I even believe MS will announce a remote to work in conjunction with this new tech. We are hardcore gamers here on n4g who love nothing more than precision and instant results. If i was sitting there with an imaginary steering wheel with my feet c0cked at a 45% to 22% angle for long periods ill soon develop rsi and overdeveloped delts.....*Im trying to be light hearted here* When it gets released the games will probably be tailored just like the ones for the eye toy/pseye. Im not expecting precision gaming from this tech as soon as its launched. Personally im excited to see what they can pull off as anything beats the wii for me

Oh and that 'unwarranted optimism' is just called being hyped/excited. You say that to ps3 fans every time they get wet over a new exclusive. You cant have it both ways either. Personally i feel theres nothing wrong with being excited about the hobby you like/love/are obsessed with.

really duh3116d ago (Edited 3116d ago )

eyetoy can't be compared to Natal nor should it. All the pessimistic criticism comes from people knowing Natal puts Microsoft ahead of the game in motion and possibly in the market later on.

Ju3116d ago (Edited 3116d ago )

Natal might be a great piece of technology (it certainly is), so is MS's surface, ... and so was Betamax.

BTW: I guarantee Natal is more expensive then a BD and a HDD combined. So, you'd trade a BD-HDD-less game for a motion sensor. Marketing vs. Consumer demand. We'll see how that ends.

Sharingan_no_Kakashi3116d ago (Edited 3116d ago )

They both have the same premise. Stand in front of a camera and interact with things on the screen. Natal is inaccurate and lame. I could barely watch them try to pass off that paint "game" with Natal's accuracy. And i will never.... NEVER, sit on a couch and hold my arms out pretending I'm holding a steering wheel. When history repeats itself, MS will learn.

Edit: No the criticism comes from gamers who know better. I can certainly understand though. When i first saw Natal i was interested. But after thinking about it some more I realized that its just not practical. There are only a hand full of games that Natal could use. Its just simply not practical.

really duh3116d ago

I can imagine its not just the PS3 fanboys with the pessimistic criticism but Wii fanboys too. Its funny the people that had hands on experience feel differently only PS3 fanboys on the blogs, pro Sony media, Wii fanboys and anti Microsoft folks find ways to make it seem useless.

Carl14123116d ago

Game that use controller + natal? Didn't MS say controllers were scary add they didn't want to use them?

ChozenWoan3116d ago

We are not saying it's useless... just very inaccurate to be used for all forms of gaming. Thus a truly controller free system is impossible, which is exactly the opposite of what MS is marketing. To pair Natal with current controllers or a new remote system would mean that Natal is not a final solution as touted, but rather a simple enhancement to current gaming controls (which is a good thing).

However, I do find it interesting that the same people who will nick pick a multi-platform game over AA and "jaggies" don't see a problem with Natal's lack of 1:1 accuracy in all three dimensions. Yes, the direction MS is taking the cam tracking tech is impressive, but it's still limited in what it can do gaming wise. That is why I like the PSLightstick(*) as a control system, plus it can be easily intergrated into upcoming games (maybe even existing with a proper patch/firmware update).

(*)
I like the name PSLightstick as it is a stick that uses light to aid in tracking. Plus PSLightsaber would likely get Sony sued.

Kakkoii3116d ago

You know.. Because it would be so hard for Microsoft to bundle a stick with a bright ball on it, right?

Puhlease people. Your nit picking at problem that doesn't exist.

Want feedback for a racing game? Bundle a little steering wheel shaped piece of plastic like they did for Mario Kart. It's not hard.

With Natal all the tech is in place, and any controllers can easily be created for use with it. It's hardly a big deal at all. Microsoft will most likely come out with peripherals that coincide with Natal. Such as a gun you can use that Natal will track, so in 3rd person view, you and the gun move accordingly on screen, it would bring FPS to a whole nother level.

gaffyh3116d ago (Edited 3116d ago )

This guy basically said what any rational mind would think. Natal has potential, but if it's for casual gamers, they aren't going to buy a new console + Natal which will cost $100-200 apparently. If it's for hardcore gamers, unless it get's hardcore games you will not want to play it.

I'm not going to completely right it off, but most likely I won't be buying this peripheral.

Edit: Apparently that Molyneux thing was controlled using a controller behind the scenes. GiantBomb E3 Day Three podcast, ~29 mins in.

xwabbit3116d ago

what r u talking about! natal is the future right 360 fanboys!

SaberEdge3116d ago

This blog article showed a lot of naivete on the part of the writer.

So much of his argument made no sense. It won't be able to work with past released games and that makes it fail? Did anyone with a brain think that a new piece of technology as radical as this one would be able to work with previously released games? Of course it won't, the games have to be specifically designed to work with all the interface possibilities that Natal will provide. Duh.

The other "issue" he sees is that it won't work with every kind of game. But that's not the point. The point is, the Natal technology hugely expands the options available to game developers in terms of how they design their games to be controlled and interacted with. Some games will use pure motion controls--both casual and hardcore--while other games will use a combination of a traditional controller with various degrees of motion tracking, voice and facial recognition. The different combinations are virtually limitless. As other people pointed out, Microsoft could also easily add a physical wand if they saw the need.

falcon3116d ago

I totally agree with the article. I just want to seat on my couch and be comfortable, specially after a stressful day.

ps: I just got my first rrod and no more warranty, since it's a launch 360. so, I guess I wont be playing natal anyway and I don't really care.

leyego3116d ago (Edited 3116d ago )

@Why dis & @JokesOnYou & @really duh & @every xbot fanboy defending natal

now u guys claim that using a controller along with natal will work?
when ms announced this at E3 on monday u guys where all about the whole no controller BS and that natal was the best thing ever.

we proved u wrong, we told u guys u need a controller. now ur agreeing with us? what happend to the whole natal doesn't need a controller uve been spitting out all week?

natal + controller = ps3 eyetoy + ps3 wands - voice and face recognition software. by that logic natal is old tech, and ur all hypocrites. what are u scared about? don't u guys no the weakest dog barks louder.

natal will fall flat on its face like the eyetoy, its the same thing except u guys are hyping it like its the end all of motion controllers.

games are for peace not for war, and this console wars is becoming more like a fight between reglions.

SaberEdge3116d ago (Edited 3116d ago )

No, people are merely pointing out that there is nothing that precludes Microsoft from implementing a wand IF it were useful. Doesn't mean that I agree that it is useful. I don't know yet. All I know is that Natal has a ton of potential that has excited a lot of developers and gamers alike.

Edit: It is not just like the Eye Toy and to claim that it is reveals an obvious bias, making the rest of your comment kind of suspect.

JokesOnYou3116d ago (Edited 3116d ago )

First off, don't speculate on my mood, nothing I said was even close to "flipping out" or however your trying to charachterize my comments, to negate the reality of what I said. I don't question the ability of anyone to criticize. Its probably what I hate the most about sony folks, they are so sensitive to legit concerns, but theres a difference between saying "hey that didn't look good as I thought it would" while providing a reasonable explaination why you feel that way, or saying you dont like this or that which makes it a simple opinion but he seemed very closed minded to the whole concept from begining to end, when basicly he has very little to go on at this point, with just a little imagination you could, take his "concerns" and MAKE IT WORK. For instance(in reference to his COD *concerns):

The game begins with the camera mapping your location/distance while you do nothing more than sit in a set position on your couch=(All of this is performed by the ingame character while SITTING comfortably on your couch>>>>Turorial Begins: Game requires you to pick up a virtual weapon shown on screen>>>>You reach out grab it and hold it with your hands down relaxed comfortably with your forearms on your lap, holding a imaginary weapon same as you would a controller, it recognises you hand position and the weapon and aiming point for your weapon is now all you see on screen just as you would in any FPS=Wherever you fingers/hands point is where your WEAPON IS AIMED/FIRED.////Raise both feet naturally up and down twice, then stop=Ingame charachter WALKS FORWARD instantly and keeps doing so even without you still moving your feet>>>>Lightly Stomp left foot=Ingame charachter STOPS WALKING>>>>Raise both feet naturally up at and down at a faster pace, then stop=Ingame charachter RUNS forward instantly and keeps doing so even without you still moving your feet>>>>Lightly Stomp left foot=Ingame charachter STOPS RUNNING.//// While walking or running: Leaning slighty left or right controls the direction in which you move>>>>Turning your torso quickly=Ingame character FACING/TURNING AROUND>>>>Head movement to left or right, up or down=Ingame character LOOKS IN ANY DIRECTION.////Lift both feet off the floor=Ingame charachter JUMPS>>>>Combined with running=Ingame charachter LEAPS FORWARD(over obstacles)>>>>Lean forward=CROUCH/DUCK>>&am p;am p;am p;am p;am p;am p;gt ;>Reach behind your back=CHANGE WEAPONS>>>>Swing forearms forward=MELEE ATTACK.

BAMM! FPS controls with Natal. I could keep going but as you can see with just a little imagination these controls are very much possible, sure it takes a little more effort on the gamers part, rather than pushing buttons but by nature "motion controls" require you to move your body,(ask sony) but it doesn't have to be nearly as an exhaustive experience as he implies, the alternative is just sticking with standard controllers, thats up to you= All of this could be done by the making subtle movements sitting right on the couch, NOT flailing all around crazy as we see with many wii games....as I describe Natal will recognize you begin to move your feet and instantly walk but its not like you need to do it constantly while walking. Finally once Natal's full body detection is optimized and done correctly with any game, there's still the easy part of also having option of just using a standard 360 controller, for those rough work days. lol

However this blog was probably written by an n4g member which is why he sounds like he already has his mind made up that it won't work:

"You certainly can’t play a game of Call of Duty like this."

"Natal is a neat little piece of technology, I just want to bring people down to Earth on the topic"

-Why because a guy who's never used it says it wont work? Natal has some sophisticated tech like monitoring complex algorithms to figure out human motion and a 3D space mapping system, voice/face recognition and works in very low light etc....its not a 2D Eyetoy.

JOY

Kakkoii3116d ago

@JokesOnYou: I agree, the people bashing it seem to have no idea of how the system truly works. They just saw the previews and dismissed the tech because it's Microsoft/Xbox.

When one looks at the actual technology of this system, it TRULY IS the next step in gaming. This doesn't mean controllers have to be phased out though. This system can easily and will easily work along with remotes. To merely enhance many games. You'll be able to have game characters who actually look towards YOU when you walk by, not just look out from the screen. You'll be able to scan custom content into games, even yourself into the game. There's just so many possibilities this system could be used for.

Here's what makes it different from an Eye-Toy, and these are facts, you can look up the tech specs yourself:

1.) Natal has 2 cameras, not 1.

2.) One Camera is used for viewing things in color, and is a higher resolution camera than the eye-toy.

3.) The other camera isn't a color camera, it's a depth sensor. The depth sensor consists of an infrared projector combined with a monochrome CMOS sensor, and allows the Project Natal sensor to see in 3D under any lighting conditions.

4.) It has it's own proprietary CPU, so it doesn't make the 360 struggle with a game and the system at the same time. This CPU is built for the function that Natal does, it's not a basic mainstream CPU. It's software and architecture is made just for these types of processes, which makes it run a lot faster than if it were to use the 360's processor.

5.) It has it's own microphone array that enables the 360 to conduct acoustic source localization, voice recognition and ambient noise suppression, allowing for things such as headset-free party chat over Xbox Live and giving commands in games and other things.

Thus it's eons ahead of the eye-toy. And opens up a world of new game play options and enhancements. This really is something that has the ability to enhance our gaming future. It's another step closer to virtual reality.

gaffyh3116d ago

When you give into the MS hype you will be disappointed, loko how much they hyped GTA4 and it was sh*t.

@above - If it really does have all that, it will be costing $200, I mean come on they had a specific processor created for it? I know it wouldn't have been possible to use the 360's processing power to do this AND play games but that sounds damn expensive.

Also I'm pretty sure the PlayStation Eye can detect depth, a bit more simply but it works just watch the demo with their motion controller. PSEye also has an array Mic on top of it. You just have to watch that Eyepet trailer and you'll see that it already has depth sensing and motion tracking.

The only difference is going to be price, MS' is going to be hella expensive, new hardware, proprietary processor, TWO cameras + Array mic + MS' usual ripping people off attitude. I can easily see both of these ideas going down the HD-DVD route.

joevfx3116d ago

so you would spend over $100 for this thng so it can track your head movment for a FPS? come on, this thing was gears specifically to compeit with the Wii in teh casual gamer market and thats all.

DaCandyman3116d ago

I'd like to see you try that while pulling an all-nighter playing Call of Duty. How long will you last. I'm imagining a beer gut dude with some serious beefy buffed Quads.

fenix13003116d ago (Edited 3116d ago )

pslightstick (I also like the name) was able to fire a bow and arrow so..... there goes your depth sensor. the PSLS (playstation light stick) has 1:1 accuracy which is amazing in its self. a simple command such as "start/stop listening" can be used to switch between in-game chat and commands. all of this is done with the PSE.... whats so advanced about Natal? oh it has it own processor!!!! thats going to make all the difference!!!!!!!!!!!!

PS: until VR I'm sittin my ass on the chair and picking up the controller. my room is small enough, I wouldn't have room for motion control from either from MS or Sony.

Edit: they should also add a taser so every time you get shot, the taser shocks you!!!!!! wouldn't that be fun?!?!?

Arnon3116d ago (Edited 3116d ago )

"Alex Kipman: Absolutely. We see there being three types of game. We love the [existing] controller, it's not going anywhere and there will continue to be games that are specifically made to only work with a controller. We'll have games that are specifically designed to work only with Natal - not just arcadey games, but real, hardcore, triple-A titles.

Then you'll have some games that are essentially a hybrid - games that work both with the controller and with Natal. Why is that interesting? Think about a first-person shooter where I'm using the controller but I'm doing facial tracking by just moving around and looking round corners.

Or you could have a hardcore gamer like me playing a game with a controller, while a non-hardcore person sitting next to me enjoys the experience by playing with Natal. I could be having my Halo experience with the controller and the friend next to me, who's not a hardcore gamer, could be throwing grenades or driving the Warthog or doing any number of things with Natal.

We can track up to four players in the same way we track controllers. Each individual player will be able to choose - do I want to bind with a controller, or do I want to bind with my body, or do I want to bind with both?"

Ahahahaha... You all know this is going to have mass success in all fronts of gaming. It's going to be worth every penny, and will put you into the game like never before. I'm keeping all of your comments to laugh at.

JokesOnYou3116d ago (Edited 3116d ago )

Are you serious bro? You got to visualize a mental picture of what I'm talking about, these are "subtle movements" and gestures all done comfortably sitting on your couch, Im not talking about flailing your arms all about constantly, like I said move your feet quickly up and down the guy starts to run, you have stoped but your character keeps running until you tap the floor with your left foot, or say the melee attack for example its not like you'll have to throw your forearm with some kind of UFC type force, no you're just sitting there and Natal's body tracking responds to you flinching out your forearm. Now I'm not claiming this thing is going to track if my damm eyelash moves but the large extremities of your body can definitely be tracked for subtle movements and gestures. Fortunately the devs are alot more open-minded about what possible than the actual gamers or we'd probably still be stuck with one button controllers.

JOY

Kakkoii3116d ago

@gaffyh: Creating a processor that's setup for just doing certain tasks is cheap actually. Because the architecture isn't complicated at all. And all the fabrication companies really care about is the size of the chip.

Lol, The eye-toy doesn't track depth. It's a freaking digital camera, just like the one in a webcam. The software it uses tries to figure out the depth of things by analyzing the images it takes. But this is extremely limited in functionality. Where as the Natal system actually has a SENSOR that sees DEPTH by bouncing infrared light off of everything in the room. Creating an actual 3D map of what it's seeing. Not just a guess based on a color image.

Also, wrong. The eye-toy doesn't have a microphone array. It has a single microphone.

Your lack of tech knowledge and disdain for Microsoft is blinding your judgment. This is a far more advanced system and is capable of much more than a simple webcam could ever do.

Eyetoy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

Natal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

fenix13003116d ago

your ignorance is astounding. calling a system that gives one to one tracking, something Natal ca not achieve even with it's own processor, a simple web cam... I don't have words for how stupid you are. the PSE was able to determine the tension on the string based on different amounts you pull back while still getting 1:1. still waiting for Natal to show something like that. and you have the nerve to call someone else ignorant of technology?!?! Natal is a good system, however it is going to require an add on that will cost more than 100 (with the wireless adapter at 100, it would be ignorant to assume anything else.)and your not getting anything new. vice recognition is software based not hardware so a simple firmware update and you have voice recognition. if everything that is being achieved by Natal is being done by the PSE and on top of that real 1:1 tracking I ask you what the Hell is so advanced about Natal, and why weren't they firing bows and arrows?

All-33116d ago

You - along with the person that wrote the article, obviously haven't read much on project natal then.

--> Secondly, how many gamers, specifically ones that don’t play Dance Dance Revolution, are eager to stop playing Call of Duty 4 and start dancing around the living room

You don't have to "dance around the living room"

1) Game developers can utilize any combination of 48 body points as well as in combination with the standard 360 controller.

--> Let’s look at this rationally. These people aren’t gamers, they’re probably not going to ever be as serious as you or me. They have a Wii, and as far as they’re concerned, they won’t need anything else. Not to mention they’d have to buy both an Xbox 360, and Natal in order to get that experience. That’s certainly going to cost more than a Wii will. The Wii has already established itself among the “Casual” gaming market, it isn’t going to be stolen away any time soon. It could happen given the right publicity, but I wouldn’t count on it.

2) Sony would suffer from the same issues then - yes? Besides, how does this articler know just who would and who won't buy a 360 and Natal, or even a PS3 and the EyeToy and a motion controller/s? It's rather obvious that both the 360 and the PS3 already offer game experiences that the Wii just can't provide.

--> My next problem with it is the fact that all of our old games won’t be playable on it.

3) Sony's solution suffers more than the 360 in this department. Sony haven't stated that their motion control will be backwards compatible, while Microsoft has. It depends on the game developers. Burnout was used as an example of how Natal can be used on previously released games. Obviously - nobody is expecting 100% backwards compatibility support. (Just look at standard backwards compatibility with the 360 and PS3)

--> I’ll use the example of Call of Duty 4 for instance. You can shoot by pretending to fire a gun. Sure. You can aim by moving your imaginary gun around. Ok, fine. Now tell me, how do I move forward? I certainly can’t walk toward the TV screen for more than 2-4 steps, I’d run out of room. The only solution I’ve received to this problem would be march in place. Marching in place works assuming games only required you to move up, but what would you do in a game that requires you to turn or back up?

4) Why is standing and marching in place the 'only solution' ... Hmmm? Natal can track 48 different body positions, both separately and in combinations. It all depends on how the game developers programm the Natal interfacing with their games, just like they do with standard controller button layouts for their game functions.

4a) Natal can also be used along with the standard controller. In co-op or multiplayer game scenarios, players don't all have to use Natal features either. One could use standard control interfacing, while another could use Natal features alone, while yet another could use a combination of both Natal and standard control inferfacing.

--> It’s entirely possible Natal can differentiate between the body motions of walking forward while marching, and walking backward while marching, however I find that very unlikely.

5) Wrong. Natal can detect backwards and forward motions.

http://www.engadget.com/200...

5a) QUOTE: As soon as we stepped into line in front of the box, the avatar immediately took on our stance and movements. And we mean really took them on -- little gestures with our arms, the posture we had, front and back movements -- it tracked with complete accuracy. We did notice a bit of stutter during some finer movements, but overall the effect was impressive (and more than a little eerie).

--> This brings up another question to mind, how would I go about controlling the camera in a game?

6) It's up to the game developers to determine how in-game actions are assigned, but an obvious one would be head tracking.

--> You certainly can’t play a game of Call of Duty like this. Not only would it be very difficult, but you’d be completely exhausted before you even shot anybody.

7) Nobody knows how games like Call of Duty will be mapped out to work with Natal, but one can't dismiss the technology when one doesn't even understand all the possibilities yet, can one? At least not without sounding like an idiot. Cough - articler - Cough.

--> Project Natal isn’t for gamers who play shooters, RPG’s, or action adventure. It’s for gamers who want to play Dating Simulators and Mini-games. The casual market you might say. Of course there are people who will say “Microsoft will find a way to make it work.” I don’t think so, Microsoft has enough problems making operating systems and the Xbox 360 hardware work. You know what the solution is? A handheld analog stick. That kind of opposes the mantra of having no controller doesn’t it?

7a) How does this uninformed articler suddenly become the expert on what games will and won't work with Natal? Anyone that has read various articles delving into how Natal works can understand the potential.

--> However, I certainly don’t see the logic in shelling out the assumed $100 to buy a system that only works with games that are designed to work for it.

8) Previously released games can work with Natal. It all depends if game developers are willing to patch their games to utilize motion sensing.

--> I still can’t play Call of Duty 4 with this method. I can’t play Devil May Cry which requires a lot of rapid turning. If I’m going to exclusively playing Racing games, I can see the appeal, but most of the popular games on the 360 require a lot of rapid movement. I don’t understand why gamers of that caliber are praising this to be a revolution.

8a) Again, the articler keeps repeating as fact - something that isn't a fact. Natal isn't going to be used only for racing or casual games. It's a far more versatile interface than that.

--> Natal is a great idea, but it’s just not for home console gaming.

9) We'll see won't we... regardless of what people like the articler think, the fact is - Natal is coming, and it's coming to home console gaming.

--> Natal could be very useful in combination with a controller however.

10) Microsoft have stated that it can be used alone or in combination with the standard controller... so there's no guess work involved. It's possible.

From engadget:

http://www.engadget.com/200...

The box uses two sensors for input: a video camera, and an infrared camera (that light you see in the press photo is either power, or some part of the IR setup). The infrared data is used to gauge depth and the video camera movement, but it's the software Microsoft has developed which is really doing the magic. We were shown an example of the raw output of the system, which melds the two sources and then breaks them down into a wireframe of objects, a heatmap (for depth), and a point-map (which is akin to one of those hand imprint needle toys). The software merges all of this together to create a picture of movement in the room, allowing for some pretty crazy detail of what is going on. We watched a chair being dragged into the middle of the playing field, and the software was able to continue to track the human movement, as well as that person sitting down -- it didn't break a sweat. The accuracy is far better than you would imagine it could be; it's very impressive stuff.

Obviously, Microsoft is still working out kinks and perfecting this thing, but what we saw at our demo (and super-secret demo) was mighty convincing. The demo that Sony showed of its new motion controller was interesting, but the fact that Natal is forgoing physical controls of any kind sets your mind reeling. For the other two competitors in this space, Natal could make a very, very strong rival. Ultimately it's up to developers to find truly compelling ways of using this stuff -- though they'd be fools to waste an opportunity like this.

Kakkoii3115d ago (Edited 3115d ago )

@fenix1300: Lol... just... lol.

I can call it a simple webcam, because that's what it is! Before opening your mouth, do some research first. The eyetoy is a basic digital camera. There's nothing special about it's sensor. It's all software that interprets the images that are coming in. It does it's best to judge what's happening.

The reason natal is better, is because of the depth sensor! Which you seemed to have ignored in your post. 3DV had been designing the technology for that sensor for over a decade. Since it's able to actually see the 3D shape of what's in front of it, Natal can know exactly what's happening, not guess based on images from a video like the Eyetoy does.

Natal uses a higher resolution sensor in it's video camera than the eyetoy also. This is pretty much just because of how old the eyetoy is now. Higher resolution sensors are cheaper.

Now when it comes to voice recognition and whatnot, the microphone array in Natal allows for more detailed listening to different sounds in the room, instead of jumbling it all into 1 stream. This enhances voice recognition capabilities, especially when there is background noise.

So that is why it needs it's own processor. It's a lot of data to crunch. The software for it is merely still in development stages. Like OMG, the system isn't 1:1 responsive on the first ever showing of it! What a sh*tty system!!! Puuuhlease, gimme a break. A release date hasn't even been announced for it, there's still a lot of work to be done. It would be incredibly stupid for them to release it if it wasn't close enough to 1:1 to not be noticeable.

Go do research on the hardware of the eyetoy, then come back when you have something substantial.. (oh wait, there isn't anything.)

onanie3115d ago (Edited 3115d ago )

Natal does have glaring flaws in its current state. Sure, it can be used with the standard controller, but that creates two new issues.

Firstly, it contradicts the hype of having a controllerless controller.

Secondly, in the specific context of using Natal in conjunction with a controller, all of Natal's functions can be replaced by a basic PSEye, even without the glosticks. We're talking about head tracking (the above youtube link more than illustrates that), pointing, waving, spell casting (even the PS2 EyeToy did that), even driving - did I mention voice recognition? I don't think Microsoft can deal with that.

gaffyh3115d ago (Edited 3115d ago )

@Kakkoi - I don't have a problem with MS in fact I have a 360, but I will not be buying this motion controller unless there is a really really good game coming for it (which there won't be). Unlike you I can see the difference between PSEye and Natal and it's not that great, and I'm not being sucked into the hype of an UNPROVEN product.

All you fanboys are extremely retarded for thinking this is the next thing in gaming.

Also the PSEye has "An all-new four microphone array, incorporating multidirectional voice location tracking, enhanced echo cancelling and background noise suppression allows for clear audio chat in even the most noisy of environments, without the need to hold or wear a headset." - http://www.us.playstation.c...

What was that you said Kakkoii? PSEye only has a single Microphone?

I_am_rushin3115d ago

I am amazed that this article which brought up COD4 didn't even mention how you are supposed to shoot a gun.

Anyone? Please explain to me how to shoot a game with Natal?

Kakkoii3115d ago

@gaffyh: Unlike me, you can see the differences? Lol? I'm the one who's been arguing for the differences the whole time fool.

I'm not being "sucked in" to the hype. I'm a tech enthusiast, and this is an awesome system that's been put together from a technical perspective. And if that fanboy comment was directed at me also, it's not true. I don't own either console, nor do I have a bias to either one, I'm a PC Gamer. If I had the money, I'd buy both consoles.

And good for the PSEye upgrading to a 4 microphone array. The camera and the microphone aren't what I care most about in Natal. It's the depth sensing system developed by 3DV that is what makes Natal great.

Downtown boogey3115d ago

FPSs merely utilizing Natal. Natal is at least partially lacking Z-axis movement as well as any long-term movement like running and walking around a game world. Also if you'd associate the standard 360 controller with natal you'd end up with a really awkward solution!

fenix13003115d ago

you completely fail.
"
The reason natal is better, is because of the depth sensor! Which you seemed to have ignored in your post. 3DV had been designing the technology for that sensor for over a decade. Since it's able to actually see the 3D shape of what's in front of it, Natal can know exactly what's happening, not guess based on images from a video like the Eyetoy does."

except for the fact that the PSE was able to determine the tension on the string based on how far you pull back while keeping 1:1 meaning that the PSE is able to sense depth, and thus making Natal completely pointless. I didn't ignore your post you just chose not to read mine and then made assumptions. voice recognition is software based and thus improves the more you use it the micophone is another moot point, also I believe that gaffyh pointed out that the microphone is the same or something.

So now lets see if you can answer my question from before. IF NATAL CAN NOT DO ANYTHING MORE THAN THE PSE WHAT IS SO GREAT ABOUT IT?
and why weren't they firing bows and arrows?

Kakkoii3115d ago (Edited 3115d ago )

Ok, I was wrong, you didn't ignore what I said, you were merely to stupid to understand the technology.

The eyetoy only guess's the tension using software based on the images it's receiving. While Natal use's an actual 3D f*cking sensor to see the string bending in 3D space. I don't really know how much more I can dumb it down for you. You don't seem to understand how the underlying tech actually works.

+ Show (42) more repliesLast reply 3115d ago
NegativeCreepWA3116d ago

Basically he cant play COD on it so he doesn't like, a bit narrow minded.

Pennywise3116d ago

What about burnout... can you explain to me how you push the gas, or break... what about turbo? How does it know the difference between brake and handbrake? No controllers necessary.

JOLLY13116d ago

Burnout was probably a bad example. People were demoing Burnout and said it worked really well.

Gun_Senshi3116d ago (Edited 3116d ago )

By Shouting Turbo because Natal has voice regonition.

Oh wait Eyetoy on PS2 had.

By making ugly face due to facil regonition.

Oh way PSEye has that too.

Edit: Penny there is sarcasm in my post :P

Pennywise3116d ago

No way shouting BRAKE is going to give me the same response of pushing the button. How hard to brake? How long? Can you push break and gas together - SCREAM GAKE!

Mr_Bun3116d ago

GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE!!!!!!!!

outlawlife3116d ago

ign has an article about natal where they got to play burnout with it, the guy explains controls and said it worked flawlessly

lokiroo4203116d ago

Mr bundy they went into no detail, like what is being discussed above you, how do you keep your boost going, gas and brake at the same time, they said foot forward gas, foot back brake, how did they do both and then add boost to it? flawlessly, hahahahahahaha!

Defectiv3_Detectiv33116d ago

I'd really love to see a video of somebody playing a racer w/ this thing. What are you going to do, shout 'break 80%' 'rotate steering wheel counter clockwise 44 degreess'.

From the racing game I saw them demo, it looked really generic. To accelerate, all the guy did was move his foot foward, it didn't gage how far he moved his foot, it just accelerated to a predeterming speed.

Making subtle movements is not this tech's forte. A lot of hardcore games live or die by subtle input.

Ive said it before and I'll say it again, Motion Tech is merely a gimmick. At the very most, it will only be used to complement hardcore games(kinda like the tilt controller).

I already predict that next year the gimmick will be 3-D graphics.

lokiroo4203116d ago

forget brake, gas or gake, your going to be screaming ffffffffffffff################ ##ccccccccccccckkkkkkkkkkkkkk!

Pennywise3116d ago

3d graphics might be cool.

rawd3116d ago

GAAKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKEEE EEE

Johnny Jiron3116d ago

I'm sure with a little basic thinking you can come up with a solution for any game type. Stop being so narrow minded about things. This is still in early stages with plenty of time to figure out how to get things to function as well as refine the whole setup. I'd imagine also some of the tech being implemented right into the next console, such as the voice and facial recognition. I quite like the idea of walking into a room saying something and having my console startup a movie for me. You see this stuff in sci-fi flicks all the time, it's nice to see some of it starting to become reality.

Please tho consider the fact that this is just an option and not a full on replacement for playing games among other things. You will always have a controller and games that need them. There is more to it than just dancing around in front of a camera and people seem to be ignoring all those other possibilities.

Another thing to consider is who this may eventually be aimed at. I know most gamers tend to be loners or something, but you must be aware that others have you know families and children. It cheesy looking in those promo vids, but its certainly feasible. I help run a daycare and let the kids play Rock Band on Fridays. These types of games and devices just add options and variety and really boosts a kids imagination like i imagine that painting thing could....

Hmm I'm on an unorganized and poorly aimed rant, but I think my point is in there.

Pennywise3116d ago

I own a PSeye. I am asking questions because I already know the answers... Just for kicks.

I'm not being narrow minded - YOU NEED BUTTONS. /end

joevfx3116d ago

come on guys be realistic, if they came out with a burnout game that used the air for steering and stepping forward to gas, would you actually freakign stand there like a tool with your arms in the air stepping back and forth playing this game for more then 15min? please you all know you wont.

microsoft did not make Natal for the people on a website like this, me and you. they made it for family fun time and thats all.

All-33115d ago

http://e3.g4tv.com/thefeed/...

Instead, I stood in front of the TV and the “Natal,” and held my hands at 10 and 2 like I was holding an invisible steering wheel. I then stepped my right leg forward and away I went. Okay, away I went into a wall, and then another wall, and then a parked car, but after playing with it for a few minutes, I was able to steer in and out of traffic like I would with a regular controller. I could even brake by moving my right leg back (insert your own hokey pokey joke here), and could activate the boost by jerking my right arm back much the way you would if you were shifting in a car with manual transmission.

Natal tracks 48 points on a person's body and those can be used separately or in combination. It's possible to track finger movements. It also has voice recognition. So any combination could be used for those issues you've brought up. It's up to the game developers. Natal can also be used along with standard controllers... as well as with more than one player.

+ Show (12) more repliesLast reply 3115d ago
Gun_Senshi3116d ago (Edited 3116d ago )

Finally someone with brains.

Media rips on Wiimote and Eyetoy and PlaystationEye.

MS Makes copy and hailed as best thing ever!

Sony try to fix the error that was done with PSEye and EyeToy (No controller to press buttons, accuracy) and get ripped on.

PS. Sony and MS can shove their motion controllers where the sun don't shine

Pennywise3116d ago

Once again leave the bs talk to MS and let sony shut everyone up when it works the best.

Either way motion gaming isnt for me... but shame on all these guys prasing natal as the second coming.

Sarcasm3116d ago

I don't get it. What's with the media and getting on their knee's to everything Microsoft does?

They praise and praise and praise. What sort of brainwashing techniques do they use besides

"FORZA 3 IS THE DEFINITIVE RACER THIS GENERATION. FORZA 3 IS THE DEFINITIVE RACER THIS GENERATION. FORZA 3 IS THE DEFINITIVE RACER THIS GENERATION. FORZA 3 IS THE DEFINITIVE RACER THIS GENERATION. FORZA 3 IS THE DEFINITIVE RACER THIS GENERATION. FORZA 3 IS THE DEFINITIVE RACER THIS GENERATION. FORZA 3 IS THE DEFINITIVE RACER THIS GENERATION. FORZA 3 IS THE DEFINITIVE RACER THIS GENERATION. FORZA 3 IS THE DEFINITIVE RACER THIS GENERATION. "

rockleex3116d ago

Developers developers developers developers developers

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

And here are some more techniques they use.

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

ironmonkey3116d ago

its a flaw already waste of money

lokiroo4203116d ago (Edited 3116d ago )

Its about time someone showed a sack between their legs, about f'ing time, project natal has more holes in it than Mart's crusty underwear.