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Future Controller Wars: Natal vs PS3

PCWorld writes: "Even though Microsoft's Natal has more potential, at the moment the advantage goes to Sony since the company was able to display a workable motion control prototype under a variety of gaming scenarios. Microsoft, on the other hand, didn't display any live advanced gaming scenarios, like hand-to-hand combat, at E3."

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pwnsause3420d ago

natal has the most potential, but heres the Million dollar question, how do you make your avatar/character run/walk under these conditions?

CaseyRyback_CPO3420d ago

was it before or after 6axis and Wii was described as a gimmick? Now this is the gold standard? Im amazed that fuctards are arguing over 1 working demo(ps3) vs "potential". And its a close race!!! 0_o?

lloyd_wonder3420d ago

Haha. I think it was the fancy scripted presentations that looked good.

When the girl got up on stage to demonstrate, it reminded me of those old PS2 eye toy games like atigrav and why it was destined for the closet. That type of interaction is very limited and not practical.

Godmars2903420d ago

The only reason you're saying that is because of Milo. But we don't know the exact context of that demo. Molyneux seemed a bit too leading in his narration.

Not that Natal doesn't beat out the PS3's wand on utility. Works outside of games on XBL. If its cheap enough it makes an obvious pack-in for a new SKU.

Still, the precision of the PS3 wand gives it more points as a gaming controller. Especially in first person combat games.

GiantEnemyCrab3420d ago (Edited 3420d ago )

Just a wild guess but since Natal also does voice recognition you could say "Walk, Run, Stop" and of course the body movement would be tracked so if you look left and right with your head the camera would respond.

Of course these would be small head movements that the camera would exaggerate so you wouldn't have to take your eyes off the screen.

It also tracks your legs so you might be able to do a certain motion and that will trigger a run or walk. Or run in place and it tracks it like real life but that would be exhausting however.

Tough to say but not something that couldn't be overcome.

kevoncox3420d ago

MS showed off Natal with an actually game, Burnout Paradise! Tech demo vs. Game....hummmm!

To the OP asking about movement, did you see any movement in the PS3 demo? I didn't I saw alot of standing still games!

A Bigger question would be... how much money will be be paying for an eytoy + a wand.

jib3420d ago

just to throw some ideas in

- sway your arms like you would walking
- and/or stomp your feet lightly.. left/right/left/right

Cupid_Viper_33420d ago (Edited 3420d ago )

" It also tracks your legs so you might be able to do a certain motion and that will trigger a run or walk. Or run in place and it tracks it like real life but that would be exhausting however"

And that's exactly what SONY said, after messing around with the EYETOY for 8 YEARS almost, YOU NEED BUTTONS

but besides button, you need DUALSHOCKS, for some sort of feed backs so that when you hit something or do something, you get some sort of response in your hands.

edit: @ kevoncox Same price they charge for their regular controllers for both the camera and the motion control? anything more is a little too much, unless a game is also included.

Project NATAL is cool, but 95 percent of you would rather play a racing game with Logitech G25 with 1:1 force feedback, then sit and hold an imaginary steering wheel.

and SONY's control I hope also has DUALSHOCK, and really sensitive ones, so that when you're playing a game, like sword fighting and whatever else they have for it, you can feel vibrations and stuff.

I think both WANDS should have an analog stick for run/walk and camera view, and they've already got the 1:1 accuracy down, just need to work on the rest

D4RkNIKON3420d ago

Natal is said to work without the use of a controller.. Big Deal, that has casual gaming written all over it. Core games would require some sort of controller for buttons. I think MS will end up making a controller to work with Natal for the core games. Once Natal is on the market along with a controller, it will be almost identical to Sony's motion tech. Then what it really comes down to is GAMES. I am curious to see how both companies will implement this technology into gaming. In my personal opinion, Sony has the most impressive exclusive lineup and has had more experience in this department because Sony has been working with the eye toy for years.

Omegasyde3420d ago

PSeye has this feature already. It has a built in Microphone and can do almost everything Natal can potentially do.

I have not use Natal, but I do have a PSeye and it could and can recognize key features (barcodes, limb movement)

HOWEVER

PSeye and Natal have a fatal weakness. Its the amount of light required to play. Unless Natal broadcast some kind of radar (which it might, IDK)

I am hoping that MS does include a controller or something like Sony's because it will need it for implementation in all future games.

I hope Natal and PSmotion(?) does very well and we can finally play hi-def motion games.

menoyou3420d ago

Until Microsoft proves that Milo is working like they showed on stage, then PS3 has the edge.

Omegasyde3420d ago

Kevincox, the PSeye is inexpensive.

The Sony wands might be cheap since all it is emitting a infrared light (I am guessing) and blutooth signals for the button pressing.

Natal might be expensive if they actually utilize some sort of radar to detect movement.

rockleex3420d ago (Edited 3420d ago )

How do you make your avatar/character run/walk under these conditions?

Easy: http://www.youtube.com/watc...

BAM! There it is!! :P

Why did it mess up so bad? Because he was spinning around. When you turn sideways towards the camera, the camera can no longer detect the other half of your body... therefore it registers your limbs incorrectly.

Also, if Natal can mess up limb recognition with that Avatar demo... I don't want to see how messed up it can get with a God of War type game.

Anyways, all those suggestions on how to overcome in-game movement in real life seem overly complicated.

Heck, I'm still hoping they add analog sticks to the Motion Wand/Controller so that I wouldn't have to walk in place, or make weird movements with my feet to let the game know I want to walk/run, and make movements with my head to let the game know I want to turn.

I don't want to accidentally tell the game to run towards a grenade that's about to blow up, simply because my leg had an itch and it moved. -_-"

phosphor1123420d ago

How is Natal supposed to "tie" or "win" with/against the ps3 motion control in most games. COD6 or w/e. Using Natal? I'm gonna get on the floor and "crawl" oh wait, I have no were to crawl to?? The other you can just hit a button. Things don't add up in this "battle" between the two.

I mean this guy is f*cking stupid. Just read his scenarios. Oh I can do lots of special moves due to buttons, but the Natal lets you do things with your whole body, so it wins. Wtf? Are you serious?

xxBATTLECATxx3420d ago

there was a girl driving a racecar in the natal demo clip, how would it even read how much gas and brake shes putting on? honestly from what ive seen Natal looks terrible. and impractical

GrandTheftZamboni3420d ago

Good point about crawling. Even with walking, do I need to moonwalk or buy a treadmill?

Omegasyde3420d ago

Great point, I didn't even think of that let alone her arms would get tired after a couple races.

However, the aspect of a actual fighting game utilizing hand and foot movement would be cool. BUT....

Microsoft and Sony will need a crack team of lawyers for all the kids who are going to break thier arms and legs.

Sony could add straps, but what can Microsoft do to counter this? Seatbelts?

Cupid_Viper_33420d ago

You need to buy 4 and place them like a D-pad in the middle of your living room, so that you can go forward, back, left, right, and make sure you dont fall, because if you, you'd look a litle something like this aferwards----------- http://www.vimeo.com/495262...

LastDance3420d ago

1.6 -
just to throw some ideas in

- sway your arms like you would walking
- and/or stomp your feet lightly.. left/right/left/right

Dude! I got sick of wiggling my friggin wrist around in Zelda let alone doing all that crap just to play the same game I want to play with a controller.

Motion is a nice Gimmic but you cant play real games with it.It's just a hindrence.

Lawliet3420d ago

Natal do got potential, but it has a limit if they aren't going to let you hold anything. Natal lack physics!

Doppy3420d ago

Am I the only one who's PS Eye has a mic. Every says voice recognition with Natal, but the PS Eye has it as well. The PS Eye needs more developers to get behind it so we can see everything it can do. Eye of Judgment was amazing even though I only demoed it at best buy. But games like Eye Pet show exactly what the PS Eye is capable of, so don't count it out. It seems to me that the PS3 has the best of both worlds with a camera/mic and motion controls.

Why dis3420d ago (Edited 3420d ago )

LOL about this camera. Everybody I talk to loved Natal and thought Sony had nothing but a tech demo and ms had real world displays of the tech even people I know that don't even game or follow gaming are talking about Natal. Well anyways it looks like everything is back to normal all the 360 fans moved on and all the PS3 fans are back in full force. Its clear anybody comparing Natal with anything on PS3 doesn't know the tech behind Natal.

All-33420d ago

Natal info:

1) Natal doesn't have to be used alone. It can also work in combination with the Xbox 360 controller.

2) Milo wasn't faked as many here like to repeat.

http://www.edge-online.com/...

Molyneux: You’ve got to remember that this is very, very new tech, and quite often we need to reboot the machine, so there’s someone in the back in case something goes wrong. There’s no cheating, absolutely not. I thought actually, when they were there, ‘Oh my God, it’s going to look like there’s a puppeteer in the background,’ but there’s not, absolutely not. (But they did think that Peter - yup they did)

3) Natal can work with previously released games, after updates for the technology. Burnout Paradise was used as an example.

http://xbox360.ign.com/arti...

Most of the people around me during the MS press conference were groaning when they showed how a racing game would control with Natal in the aforementioned marketing footage, but truth be told, it's a lot more fun than it looks. Though I did miss the bit of resistance that a controller or steering wheel normally gives me, I was shocked to see how natural it felt to drive a car without actually being in one. How easy was it? To accelerate, I simply moved my right leg forward; to brake, I moved it backwards, and to pop it into a neutral position, I just stood straight up (or as straight as my spine would allow me to stand after 12+ hours of E3 spelunking). Driving was just a matter of pretending that I had a steering wheel in my hands, and every subtle movement I made was picked up by the camera allowing me to drive pretty well (and pretty straight) for the few minutes I got to try it out. As an added bonus, the motion for going into Burnout mode was an appropriate Top Gun Volleyball fist-pump. The whole experience was surprisingly fun and I walked away with nary a bad thing to say (which is quite an accomplishment, because normally I complain a lot).

- Burnout was merely used as an example - it doesn't mean all racers have to use Natal... and Natal is being developed for all ages. Younger kids and many older adults will have no issues with steering by using hand motions for driving games aimed at the casual crowd.

- More Natal info:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1...

Tsunoda made the point that Natal will continue to work even if someone walks in front of a player because it knows how the human body works. So, if a player had his or her arms blocked, but Natal's cameras could still see part of their arm, it can fill in the rest based on algorithms that tell it how that arm should look.

And it's the software, Tsunoda said, that's the "magic" behind Natal, and that allows the technology to "extract the human skeleton."

Tsunoda said the technology behind Natal includes an RGB camera, an infrared camea, a multi-array microphone and a depth map. These features allow the system to track a player in 3D space, as well as to capture spoken commands from multiple people, none of whom have to wear a headset.

Asked how Natal differs from the many other motion-control cameras that have come along over the years, Tsunoda simply said that nothing that has ever come along before has been able to instantly work when a new player steps up in front of it, or when the lighting conditions change, or when someone else steps in front of a player.

4) Natal works when someone walks in front of the player.

5) Natal works in low light conditions. (infrared technology)

Natal Dev Kits are being shipped to game developers already.

StephanieBBB3420d ago (Edited 3420d ago )

I rest my case.

@All-3

1. Sorry m8 but that one you pulled out of your own a**.

2. http://www.videogamer.com/n...

Molyneux:
"What I would say, and this is not just me being the good company man, I'd say the thing I love about the 360 more than anything is nothing to do with the hardware, it's all to do with LIVE. LIVE is still underexploited for a game mechanic. Some of the stuff in Fable II we're doing with co-op is only possible because of the way that LIVE is structured. I love playing around with that stuff as a designer. Whereas PS3 doesn't seem to be quite so mature on that side. They haven't got quite the same infrastructure and service but, you know, yeah, I'd love to get games on every platform."

Later find:
"As revealed over the weekend, Fable II won't ship with online co-op play. Gamers will instead have to wait for a patch, scheduled for the first week of release, to enable the hotly anticipated feature."

Molyneux lies alot. This would not be the first time he overpromises.

3. Your wrong. The game he demoed reminded him of burnout. And they had named it "Burnout Natal". It won't work with games in the past.

4. This I can believe based on what Tsunoda said.

5. Also true.

Serg3420d ago

If Milo would work like they showed in the video they would show it on stage, not in a video while the godfather of unfulfilled promises in a smoking is commenting it to death.

You know there is a reason why the PSEye is so casual, you can't do anything hardcore with it, you won't be able to go through a level in an adventure game by just wobbling your limbs, no gamer's games can be done without some sort of instant response, meaning buttons. Imagine you hold your arms in the air for 30 minutes to play an FPS, then, after some painful time, the boss battle. You shoot and shoot, and when both you and the boss are low on health, the final blow decides who wins, AI or you, and the damn thing doesn't recognize you are trying to shoot, and switches weapons or reloads instead... you get the idea.

This sort of tech, as Sony said, won't work for some games without the use of buttons. Sony introduced a motion tracking camera for the PS2, they had some time fiddling with the tech and it's not like they don't have any developers capable of producing creative ideas. It won't work simple as that.

Now with an actual wand and buttons + motion tracking you could do some serious stuff.

http://www.kokugamer.com/wp...

(Notice the X, Triangle, Square and O)

You could move around with the analog stick, aim with the wand and shoot by pressing one of the buttons.

SaiyanFury3420d ago

Both Sony and MS's motion sensing ambitions are great, I'll speak as a traditional gamer who grew up on the consoles from the 80s. So what?
I don't really care about either company's motion sensing abilities. I care about the games coming. I like the motion sensing in the SIXAXIS in games like Ratchet & Clank Future, as it was not required but was interesting in puzzles, but as a mainstay in major games, I don't really care about it as a big part of upcoming games. I know that Sony and MS are using it as major bargaining points for console adoption and no doubt games that use it will come. But as an old school gamer, I can't say that I really care either way. If Natal is good, then great. If Sony's motion sensing comes off good, then as well great. But I won't be a part of it as the games I love never use said features.

I_am_rushin3420d ago

I want to know. How do you shoot a gun with no buttons?

ChozenWoan3419d ago

The PSLightsticks Sony showed at E3 looked too geeky, but this bad boy here looks sweet.

http://ps3.kombo.com/articl...

wonder how long that will take to get to market... seeing how it was posted back in march.

+ Show (24) more repliesLast reply 3419d ago
lloyd_wonder3420d ago

I think the new motion controls will have a lot to prove in the coming months. Which is more practical in real world conditions and which is just a novelty

pwnsause3420d ago

now the same question that i asked up there, it applies to sony's motion controls as well. since those motion controllers where prototypes, i expect analog sticks on the thing and of course make it affordable, not to mention bundle it up with the PS EYE.

air13420d ago (Edited 3420d ago )

make it affordable? what has sony made affordable this gen? dont expect anyhing, they didnt add another analog stick to the psp go like they should have so dont set your self up..

pwnsause3420d ago (Edited 3420d ago )

"they didnt add another analog stick to the psp go like they should have so dont set your self up.."

they didnt add another analog stick because that would make two platforms and gimp the people that currently have a PSP. Not only that, devs would start making games with that second analog stick and force people to upgrade. is that what you want? PSP2 will have it along with the touchscreen. and BTW its in development.

Godmars2903420d ago

Also going by the demo, they're probably going to have to pack/sell them in pairs. With either the Eyetoy in addition or give it a price cut, thought its already relatively cheap.

Omegasyde3420d ago

Godmar,

Perhaps that will bundle them like they did the Buzzers for "Buzz Ps3!".

Initial investment in either technology will probably be huge. Words to the Wise is to buy a PS3eye while its cheap.

Highatus3420d ago

I agree about the analogues. I think it would be badass if they used the same sorta nubs like on the PSP.

dalibor3420d ago

You might not like the way this comment sounds but what has Sony made affordable?
-Hard drives are cheap to upgrade if you want
-Controllers can recharge w/usb which saves you $$$, no batteries or rechargers required.
-Playing online is free of course!
Now MS has made the 360 cheaper than the Ps3 but their peripherals are more pricey than the Ps3, it's a catch 22 really.

air13419d ago (Edited 3419d ago )

yes pwny i would much rather have a psp2 at 250 then to have a ugly psp go. i hope you dont think that the psp2 will be out anytime soon.

could you imagine how much a psp 2 will cost?! probably 500 bucks look at how much they want for the psp ugly

@ dalibor

that was a good answere. but i think you miss the whole thing, you can buy a 360 for 200 and play a game in hd out the box. you ppl just assume that everyone goes online silver is free case you didnt know. i never buy the full year cause i never play year round online. so if i wanna play online ill pay 8 bucks for the month and go back to silver. you can find hdd's for the 360 dirt cheap on ebay.

look man all im saying is that you do not have to drop over 500 dollars to play great games day one with a 360. i would much rather buy cheap and upgrade little by little its just easier on the wallet and easier to explain to the wife. plain and simple if yoou had bills and i mean real bills like a mortgage you would know what i mean.

+ Show (4) more repliesLast reply 3419d ago
KionicWarlord2223420d ago

I hope they both do well. Can anyone imagine the games that could be made around this tech? Not just the casual the hardcore as well.

GiantEnemyCrab3420d ago (Edited 3420d ago )

So it sounds like if MS can deliver we have ourselves a winner.

If I was a betting man my money would be on Sony for getting the controller to market first.

Omegasyde3420d ago

MS should take a page out of sony's book and look how to not make crappy camera games.

All the PS3eye games on PSN sorta Suck. A FW update could however give the PS3 the option of hand movements to control the crossbar. I doubt sony would do this, and I would hope not since gamers need cross game chat first.

aldesko3420d ago

Yeah, if MS is serious about Natal they need to see what PSeye and Wii did wrong and right.