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BeefJack - No Love For Ken

BeefJack writes: "It's been three months since the release of Street Fighter 4. Since that day, one of the characters, Ken, has become the laughing stock of the Street Fighter world. Unfortunately, I found that this distaste for Ken stretches all the way back to the original game."

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specialguest3067d ago

That flowchart is pretty funny. I'm a Sagat player and I wanna see one for Sagat, since there are a lot of people whining about Sagat being overpowered.

ExcelKnight3067d ago

One already exists. It kind of looks like this...

Tiger? ---> TIGER!
TIGER! ---> Tiger?

PELVIC THRUST ACTION3067d ago

Overpowered is an understatement. Sagat is like the Demoman of Street Fighter. Saying any of them is underpowered is likely to cause a fight.

McRad3067d ago

He IS powerful, and has a lot of low risk/high reward tactics compared to everyone else but he CAN be stopped. A lot of people resort to just b*tching and moaning about him being so powerful instead of taking the time to figure out how to counter or take away that power.

I main Vega and alt Gen and I USED to main Sagat so trust me, I'm totally aware of the stupid damage he can do and his (albeit small) weaknesses. Learn your character's strengths and weaknesses and learn your matchups and you'll be fine. Also if a character matchup is giving you issues, I suggest finding GOOD players with that character and fighting them every chance you get. It's the only way you'll get better so long as you learn from your losses.

What did you do that caused you to get punished? How did they punish you? What did they do against you that you didn't stop? Can you stop it? If so, how? If not, block :D. These are the things you gotta think about when you're fighting. You fight, you adapt, you fight some more.

Baka-akaB3066d ago (Edited 3066d ago )

Sagat got many advantages and few weaknesses , but he still got them . It's tiresome to see people come back over and over with that "broken" "imbalanced" argument crap .

Sagat biggest strentgh beside his damage , is his arsenal for everything . Still he cant use everything , and when he pwns you , it's either :

-you're not as good as you believe yourself

-You let that sagat player read your play , wich would usually get you killed with other characters , but is even worse here

-You keep getting sucked into his pace , wich shouldnt be that easy if : you're one of those hadoken/shoryuken spammers ...
if you're a tech char like dhalsim , seth , bison and a few others in wich case you should be the one putting out zone controls and setting up the pace ....
if you're one of the bulldog/aggressive kind of character , or one with a few cheap tricks like Akuma , in wich case , you disrupt the flow of an otherwise very slow moving sagat

Thing is Sagat is only the worst match up for guys like Zangief , Honda , and even then they got plenty ways around it .

Again the Sagat whining is funny , there hasnt been a single 2d fighting game in the last five years , possibly even ten years , that has been more balanced . There hasnt been another fighting game (probably except Virtua , but i'll stick to 2d fighting) with tiers than meant so little , and arent impossibl odds for the lewest characters .

People shouldnt care how many people play Sagat online , most sucked to begin with , as turns out he isnt as easy as one would believe to master , and imediately switched to Ken and still sucks , but at least with an easier character that feeds their hadoken obsessions .

MiloGarret3066d ago (Edited 3066d ago )

My problem with sagat is not that he's too overpowered (although I really do think he is, it's too easy to be good with sagat compared to every other character in the game), rather it is the fact that everyone plays with him. Together with Ryu, Ken and Akuma; Sagat belongs to the most overused characters in the game and I am SICK of playing suckass sagats.

I've learned how to beat average to good Sagats with Bison whom I main, nevertheless I find myself bored to death 90% of the time when playing him. Overall, I think SFIV online COULD have been an incredible experience, it's too bad the shoto characters and Sagat are so easy to use because the unfortunate consequence of that is that 85-90% of players online (in my experience) uses one of them. I have absolutely no respect for them unless they double perfect me.

Oh, and that flowchart is fücking spot on... SPOT ON!

Jinxstar3066d ago (Edited 3066d ago )

I have switched from Sagat. Too many people have their counter ryu/ken for him. It got old. I'm getting good with Blanka and E.honda

Truth is Sagat was not an easy character too play doing a fake forward low kick followed by a roundhouse tiger knee was always hard to connect with. Getting in close to people usually bought you a nice uppercut and keeping distance, If the opponent knew Sagats ranges, got tougn because his roundhouse didn't meet Ken or Ryu at the same height it does every other character because of their angles.... His ultra is ALWAYS blocked. unless you could master some throws and other stuff he was a tough toon.

you guys should read my review here on N4G for it.

http://n4g.com/reviews/PS3/...

Add me if you guys want a fight =D I'm not the best but I love to play and need my invites trophy.

@ Wengyong below. SSF2THDR was far superior in terms of balance...

LightofDarkness3066d ago

To combat Sagat saturation people just need to learn how to abuse Sagat with their chosen fighters. These people are mostly newbies anyway who haven't really learned the ropes yet, so screwing with their ability to control the flow of the battle will create confusion and frustration. They won't be able to counter-strategize because they don't REALLY know how to play as Sagat. Its all just Fireball> low-high-low-high> (opponent jumps in) >Tiger Uppercut/Kneelift.

WengYong3066d ago

But one complaint i have is Akuma having 2 raging demons. Thats garbage cause they are both easily avoided. Ryu is the best chracter IMO. His shoryuken, cancel, metsu combo is overpowered. Did anyone see Daigo exploit that in the Worlds ? He destroyed everyone.

Sagat gets thrown off by Akumas Shakunatsu fireball. Every Sagat user Ive faced online gets thrown way off when you do it. And I havent lost to many Sagat users, to tell you the truth I dont see the big fuss about him.

For me I like using Cammy and Gouken, his grab-ultra works a treat.

On Topic: Very funny flowchart. I found myself doing a few of those things myself. IMO Ken should get a haircut, or grow it like in Alpha Series. His hair is what makes him a joke

Baka-akaB3066d ago

@Milo Garret

Thing is there is always too many people using XXXX characters in XXX games .

In tekken you got always the mishima , especially jin online . IN soulcalibur 4 , there is also a set of character like Mutsurugi , at some point because of lags Yoshimitsu or the bugged flavor of the moment .
Hell in Kof XII i expect a crapload of Kyo , Iori and Ash or anyone who might be broken.

What can you do about that ? Unless you make a game with a set of character that are so evenly matched it's not even fun or a possible win , it will stay that way .
Hell in every FPS scrubs keeps hogging the cheap weapons , and still sucks as well .

You can only go up as quickly as possible up the ladder for fresh air , play tournaments (online or not) and play with a list of friends .

Imo , while i'm very glad the game is that successful , half the owners of the game , on both platform , had no business buying it .

Many were lured by the raving critics , and didnt realise how deep or "hard" the game might actually be . many of them flew then , and sold their copies , while the remaining scrubs are stuck there in an endless loop of "suckage" with ken ryu or sagat .

PS : btw i disagree about Sagat being that easy . You kinda see him getting overwhelmed by numbers of ken/ryu , and it's only getting worse over time .
He got some essential moves and combos that arent that easy ... and by the time you actually master those , you'll fall upon folks that made a living of stopping those , and silly stuff like blind Ultras .

Marceles3066d ago

One Tiger uppercut = 5 hit combo with Ryu/Ken, his ultra takes a ridiculous amount, he's a character that can stay on the ground with how fast his tiger shot recovers after being shot, if he does need to jump it's low to the ground and his FK has incredible length, his Tiger Knee covers great distances and also recovers quickly...lol Sagat is definitely overpowered. The only disadvantage with Sagat is how deep you can get into him to do a big combo IF you're an expert, but any average SF player will turn into a god with Sagat with one well connected move.

specialguest3066d ago (Edited 3066d ago )

Sagat has always been pretty powerful in most SF games, but he does have his weaknesses. For me, it's those quick characters with the annoying poking moves that I often lose to like Cammy, Chun Li, and Gen. A good Blanka player is a b!tch to fight too.

I believe at the higher competition level, Sagat's god tier status no longer applies.

MiloGarret3066d ago (Edited 3066d ago )

Yeah I know, it's unavoidable that some characters are more popular than others, but I've found that SFIV is just nuts in this aspect. Yesterday I played for 30 min and fought only ryu's, WTF?!?! I was bored out of my mind.

I've found that after clearing the first level in championship mode Sagats decreased dramatically, but were replaced by ryu's who've learned the shoryuken, cancel, metsu combo, which can be VERY annoying. Overall the variety of characters has increased slightly in the second (from the bottom) level in championship mode, but the usual suspects are still overreprested. I used to main Gouken and Fei Long, but recently switched to Bison after realizing most players don't have a clue what to do against him since they only ever encounter shoto's + sagat.

I think the key online is to choose a really odd character, like Gen or whatever and master him, people won't have a clue what to against you since they've pretty much never encountered a good Gen.

And @specialguest: "I believe at the higher competition level, Sagat's god tier status no longer applies."

I think you're totally right, thing is, a VAST majority of players don't perform at the highest competition level. On a lower level I still feel Sagat is overpowered, although most of them are predictable and stupid. I understand that SFIV is a hardcore game, at least if you wan't to spend a relatively large amount of time playing it, but still. He touches you once... you have to beat the living crap out of him to catch up and it just feels like an uphill battle every time you encounter him for many of us "normal" players.

Dark General3066d ago

Sagat from what I played isn't overpowered. On most lower levels he's predictable. Once you get in close on him they get frantic. Now a rushdown Sagat that knows half of what he's doing is a different story.

On the flowchart ken I laugh at them. In fact I usually just practice my combo execution after they're landing from a missed medium/hard punch shoryuken. Or the advanced version when they try to cross you up but do the same combo with medium kick.

Ryu on the other hand gets me a bit frustrated. Now I main Rose with El Feurte as my backup. Once he gets his Ultra and the person is just standing back throwing hadokens and waiting with a light punch shoryuken ---> Ultra that's what gets me. Now I'm not complaining it's overpowered. It just gives me brief bouts of trying to get in range to poke him to death with Rose. Or in El Feurte's case try to bait his light punch shoryuken and TRY to punish him as he lands (which is difficult online due to the small window of opportunity).

Disclaimer: Yes I know Rose and Feurte aren't great characters but I don't mind working extra to win as compared to using other characters.

N4g_null3066d ago

This is weird you did not hear these complaints in the arcade, Most of you probably don't know the air techs either. Sagat is a dangerous character but he was nothing compared to the first M-bison in the arcade or SNES or sega genesis. Actually he is more of the less dangerous characters right now in my book.

The people complaining remind me of people who don't like quake because people can rail you from a mile away with out zooming. Online play is all about meeting your match and getting better right? If not you should find some kids to play against.

This character has been pretty much the same and he was even faster in turbo yet for some reason even the professional don't have a problem with him.

Keep on practicing you'll figure him out.

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McRad3067d ago

Ken got a bad rap from all the shoto scrubs who invaded the game and made him look totally lame. Don't blame the character though, blame the player. I admit though, I've fought SO MANY bad Kens that when I finally fight one who has an inkling on what the hell to do, I get beat down in the first round.

Then I think "oh yeah this guy isn't trying to fireball zone me continuously when it's not working and throwing fierce shoryus out FROM ACROSS THE SCREEN" and I adjust my tactics. It's all about the players man.

Shuya3066d ago

Almost all matches I've had online are against Ken it's like people don't see the other characters or something, pretty funny really.

N73603066d ago

Its like 3s all over again

Sangria3066d ago

That's what i hate about Street Fighter, the number of duplicate characters and techniques. Ryu, Ken, Saggat, Akuma, Sakura, always quart-circle front Punch, quart-circle back Kick, etc...

That's also why Street Fighter games will never be on top of my favorite fighting games. It's always about Ryu or Ken, hadôken or shôryuken. Of course there are people that choose other characters, but not enough, and when they see you've kicked their ass, they go back to Ryu / Ken.

I appreciate much more Guilty Gear and Tekken series, despite my lack of combo-knowledge with Tekken, because at least the character and technique list is eclectic and you really have choice.

LightofDarkness3066d ago

No KOF love? I think KOF is my favourite series, tied with SF, though I worry for the next instalment as they seem to have sacrificed speed and timings for extra animation frames and larger characters.

Tekken's good but the play really boils down to very limited strategies after a while. It's all dodge and duck until you get the first hit of a 10-part in. I miss the old ways of playing Tekken where non-strikers like King could go toe to toe with the Kazuyas and Heihachis of the world. Tekken 6 again seems to be leaning toward the jugglers and bouncers, and I don't quite like that 'dial-a-combo' style of play.

Baka-akaB3066d ago (Edited 3066d ago )

Really how is that different from 80% of the players choosing Jin mishima , Sol , KY ?

I love most of those gamers (g gears ecepted) and cant wait for KOF XII anyway .

Like said above , tekken is great but get quite limited at the higher level or after some time .

@LightofDarkness

I wouldnt worry much . They did a "back to basics" approach that will enrage some , but please many fed up by what happens to the serie after '99 til XI .
They seems to have taken a lots of caution to blance things out , and not turn into a "hey let's watch you do an infinite stupid combo while i cant do jack " like in a few games (arc systems Hokuto no Ken)

And yet they added quite a few interesting concept for cancels and clashes (like HP/HK repelling themselves with proper timing , and setting up a few nice things) . I'm quite happy with KOF XII so far , and could only lament the fact that my fav char isnt here (Yamazaki)

Sangria3066d ago

@LoD : Not yet, i've never played a King of Fighters of my life, and i think King of Fighters XII will be the best opportunity to start. I have high expectations in it.

LightofDarkness3066d ago (Edited 3066d ago )

Yamazaki was pretty kick a**, I never learned to use him unfortunately. I was always a pretty predictable sort of player, I've usually picked Kyo or Terry as a main, sometimes using Rugal (98) and Ryo. I'm pleased to hear that Ryo will be reprising his 98 style. Mature was a decent character as well.

@Sangria: I'd say to acquire KOF 98 with a neo-geo emulator to get a feel for the game. 98 was my favourite and it's a good place to start. You will probably enjoy it immensely.

N4g_null3065d ago

LOL you guys have never played a guile master then LOL.

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