Neowin: Is Nintendo killing core gaming?
"I know this may seem a little bit overzealous, and maybe the title is a little misleading, but am I the only one who is tired of watching Nintendo's Wii and DS whore out games that are crap at best? Am I the only one tired of having some of the best franchises being dummy downed to the masses? Maybe it's not their fault, as it is, they are just providing the tools for developers to create content.

When you create a gaming console that is fun, easy to play and directed at everyone and not just the gaming crowd, they have to share some of the blame don't they?

Remember when being a gamer meant something?..."

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ChickeyCantor3496d ago (Edited 3496d ago )

O boy,
I hope they are hahahah.
Perhaps then we can go back to a time where "hardcore" meant something else. And you know what "hardcore" definition i'm talking about.

Ever since the PS1, "gaming" became more MAINSTREAM.
Those people, perhaps some of you, were freaking " CASUAL "to the bone. You guys kept playing those games, and now play KZ2 or Gears of War and call yourself " HARDCORE ".

L M A O.
If anything, you people seem more "casual" than hardcore if you consider the extra's you people demand as "gamers".

Chris3993496d ago (Edited 3496d ago )

You want hardcore, play Demon's Souls. It's a game that kicks your as$ and offers absolutely no compassion for doing so. Yet you go back, again and again, struggling against impossible odds. It requires a huge investment of time, skill and patience to eke out a minor reward. That is hardcore. Most games today, the reward vs. time/ skill ratio is definitely skewed in favor of reward.

Reminds me of Deadly Towers from the NES days. No continues, one life and about 100+ hours of gameplay. NOT for everyone. That is hardcore. FPS and third-person shooters have saturated the market because THERE IS A DEMAND FOR THEM. Because they are mainstream.

As usual, you are missing the mark and defending everything Nintendo. It is possible that other people don't share your perception, that they want a challenge and an appeal that is not universal (ala Mario, and to a certain extent Halo, Gears and Killzone). I think that's what the author is getting at, but he does come across as a bit abrasive with his message.

Personally, I enjoy my Wii, for what it is. But it will never consistently provide me with immersive, cinematic, challenging experiences. That's not what it's made for - specwise and thematically. It is made to have a massive appeal across a variety of demographics, and when you are catering something to everyone, you are definitely excluding people on the far ends of the spectrum. That's how you target the middle-market.

And yes, I'm sure you could rant off a few titles here and there that could be considered "hardcore". But for every one of those, there are 10 Cooking Mamas or EA Sports Interactive/ Barbie Dress Up/ Babiez Party Vol # 3. These hardcore gems are the exception, not the rule. I'll still be picking up Muramasa and a few other titles for the Wii this year, but most of my gaming time will be spent on the HD systems. (And yes, graphics DO matter. Video games are by definition a visual medium. Graphics aren't everything, but they are certainly part of the package. And while the Wii has some incredibly artistic games, 480p isn't visually as interesting or captivating as a well crafted HD game.)

EDIT: @ Sidar. Are you dense? The title of the article is: "Is Nintendo killing core gaming?" There's a big N logo right beside the article. This is clearly ABOUT Nintendo. Did you even read the article? And your examples are still erroneous btw. Those are mainstream games.

Your entire statement on "core" and "mainstream" stems from the article, which is about the author's perceived negative effect that Nintendo has had on hardcore gaming. Again, did you read it? You seem confused. Really man, you post on like every Wii article, almost always with a defensive slant. Is there ANYTHING that the big N can do wrong in your book? Quite possibly I've missed it, but it would be nice to hear something more arbitrary from you once in a while. Anyway, it's a lovely day and I'm gonna get outside.


ChickeyCantor3496d ago (Edited 3496d ago )

They were simple examples.

" As usual, you are missing the mark and defending everything Nintendo"

O this isn't about Nintendo, this is about the whole concept of HARDCORE.

As usual you take my stuff out of context, congrats.

Should you be reminded that i own a Ps3 also? Just to expand my gaming experience. So if this is really about Defending Nintendo then i have no idea why i own a Ps3 in the first place.

Sure the article is about Nintendo, Doesn't mean i can't take on a different matter what is actually related to this whole "CORE" nonsense.

" Those are mainstream games."
Only proving my point more.

" O this isn't about Nintendo"
AS IN MY COMMENT, are you dense mister chris? Were you not replying to MY comment? Thought so.
>" As usual you take my stuff out of context, congrats. "
Wasn't it obvious?

edit edit:
" you post on like every Wii article, almost always with a defensive slant"
Interpretation is key.

" Is there ANYTHING that the big N can do wrong in your book?"
Many, MANY things. And i have expressed them before.
But why repeat every negative thing if 90% of N4G, and i know you are one of them are doing it on daily bases?

And yes i did read the article, but it was another case of "Cry-moar" and "Doomsday" is coming. HENCE why i said something about the whole hardcore BS.

N4g_null3495d ago

The author fails to see that even the developers have become more casual. Gamers have become more casual.

Developer are more casual because they have to answer to even bigger publisher now. Gone are the days you could just work on a game and when it was ready then it was time to release it. Now hype is expected for every title. Developer don't even have to work as hard for this hype any more. Publisher know that SONY and MS have turned the industry into more of a movie state that one where people are addicted to game play.

90% of the gamers here are addicted to hype of any kind. Game play is an after though which has withered down to trophies. I blame nintendo for this also because the old mario where not about finding stars they where about not surviving the onslaught of these stages nintendo and co made. The secrets where cool once you had mastered the game but here is the trick, you still wanted to play the game and to play it meant you had to have practice because you would get rusty.

It's possible that game development got too complicated even for nintendo during the N64, and it possible they and many others are just waking up to a totally different gaming landscape because of that. I'm really missing the magical feel that game had and the feeling that even some new games have, but they are so few.

The movie gaming fad is running thin right now. The industry is not willing to invest in real writers and seriously I don't think we could afford them.

Gaming on the consoles have just become so convoluted and contrived these days and the few from the old days where not really as hardcore as they say they where. Gaming is a little different than other forms of collecting you actually have to be good at it to get what the hardcore got out of it back in the day.

Now a developer can just put some shaders in a game and some normal maps and every one cheers even though it was the same tired game they we got bored of last gen.

I think in 2010 we will see SONY as part of the solution though. It even took nintendo to fall as low as the GC for them to wake up again.

Oh yeah the main point of this rants is this is not nintendo's fault. This is simply the developer culture that SONY has left the industry in. All of this shovel ware was on the PS1 and 2 and in most cases it even looked worst and play even worst. The fact that some of it even sells just proves how successful the Wii mote is. The problem is 3rd parties believed the internet more than looking at the market.

Sure you can make the hardcore happy, I mean nintendo knows a zelda or mario will do that and the HD guys know you guys love sand boxes and normal maps etc. The problem is new comers may not, and if they do try these new set of games out then they are no longer getting hooked and becoming skilled players.

Many of us started gaming based on skill building game play, hell most people get addicted to games because of that very function. Nothing is more annoying to try and make it thur a boring easy game. I think the industry needs to pull back on the epic movie games and make more epic arcade skill based games.

This gen is not ready for the art that it's true talent can produce tech wise... maybe next gen. Oh yeah Zbrush 4 comes out in august get on the beta tester's list before it too late! I know you guys love mud box too!

Seriously there is a leader ship problem with in the industry and currently it just going to be slower for people to make the move to the Wii because of debts piling up for the HD games that went over budget. On the HD system a lot of people believed you could keep on making sub par games as long as the graphics where good and now a few of them are a shadow of what they use to be.

On the Wii there is no way in hell you can get by with this unless your art truly is worth the price of admission.

Argento-Nox3494d ago

@scissor runner

I agree that there's a lot of shovelware on the PS1 and PS2, but there was also more core games to balance it out. Both PS1 and PS2 had something for everyone, from singstar to 2D fighters, RPG's etc.

The Wii is seriously lacking in several departments while having a high proportion of shovelware. I check games at EB games practically every week and I never fail to see a wall of casual games I don't want to play on the Wii.

Most of the PS2 shovelware came out near the later quarter of it's life period, but the Wii has had it since day 1. Let's not forget it's greatest contribution to get to the casual this gen; the wiimote and nunchuk. My nieces were never into gaming, but they bought into the wii for it's games and it's casual control functionality (not a bad thing since I play Wii with them from time to time).

If your going to shift the blame elsewhere, you should be fair to say that Nintendo has not done nearly enough to support the core audience, while it's controller along with the games are a reason it's reached the casual gamer. Are you forgetting they announced Animal Crossing last year as their core game?

The light isn't completely out for the core gamers on the Wii; since I know Sin and punishment 2, Arc rise fantasia, fragile, Monster Hunter 3 etc. are coming. If, however, Nintendo announces another casual game to the core this year like the last E3, they deserve all the animosity that the core can muster for their stupidity.

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qface643496d ago

nope not at all i honestly don't know why people keep saying that?
i mean its not like nintendo is forcing you to only buy some of the more family oriented games on their systems
hardcore games are still coming out ON ALL SYSTEMS
no one is killing anything the so called core will always be there its not going anywhere

TheColbertinator3496d ago

Another one? The good scores of Punch Out and The Conduit must be getting the haters in a frenzy lol

Just ignore this site and report it as lame

IzKyD13313495d ago (Edited 3495d ago )

Did you not read the article? The writer mentions that every now and then, a title will come out for core gamers, but a VAST majority of Wii games are shovelware (Nintendo can only release so many games)
EA, Activision and Ubisoft have all realized that with the Wii, quality doesn't really matter. Ubisoft is the biggest offender IMO, lets see some of there Wii titles:

Gold's Gym Cardio Workout
Vacation Sports
Six Flags Fun Park
Imagine Fashion Party, Imagine Party Babyz
Petz Sports, Petz Crazy Monkeyz, Petz Rescue: Wildlife Vet
Circus Games

I can keep going on and on but i'm getting tired of typing. You get my point though. Companies will release any game with the word "Party" in it and the little kids and parents will buy them

N4g_null3495d ago

You know why those games are not on the HD systems because the development would cost too much. I mean really just look back at the PS2 and you will see way more trash, maybe less successful trash but it has always been here. LOL Ahhh man remember acclaim LOL! All of the smaller devs... boy guess where most of these guys got there start, the PS2 and 1.

Also name a few HD console games that where big enough to help EA float or fix the balance sheets for such a big company? Also why do you even pay attention to these games?

What is funny is after all of those baby games and what ever else they sold they finally had the money to motivate their artist to create red steel 2 and you have to say they had to do some thing to pay the bills because their HD games where not getting the job done.

Companies always do this. As much as I wish the hardcore could support the industry along I know they simply can not.

another thing is not many of these party games make it in the top ten or 20 at all. So why complain about them? If they where so successful then why make red steel 2?

Spike473495d ago

Just a question, honestly, just trying to catch your drift. I've played the Wii several times, I played DBZ on it, which wasn't that great, I played Wiifit, which was fun at first but then jus plain boring, and then Mario Kart, which was actually a great game.

ChickeyCantor3495d ago

`" do you perfer playing the wii over other consoles? "
No, neither the other way around.

ChickeyCantor3495d ago

haha, the disagree..really ? XD

Forrest Gump3495d ago

I don't think "Killing" is the right word,more like "ignoring" core gaming this gen.

D4RkNIKON3495d ago

If any thing it is bringing a wider audience into gaming. Hopefully the Wii will be a gateway drug that gets people interested in gaming in general who otherwise wouldn't be. Who knows, I don't think it is hurting the industry. But it does make devs lazy, easy money is pretty tempting.

N4g_null3495d ago

No one is getting rich off party games and if they are the trend will fall flat. People want games with real challenge and game play and those games keep selling on the Wii. Few games have been able to beat the casual experience of the Wii "title" games consumer know this now.

If you guys would just look at the sales you would see these games may have sold but they soon fell off because they may have sucked.

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