Ben Kuchera writes: "Xbox Live isn't known for the social graces of its users, and one gamer was harassed for outing herself as a lesbian... with Microsoft then banning her account. The company tells Ars that gay or straight, discussion of your sexual orientation in your profile is verboten, but "don't ask, don't tell" doesn't work too well."
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This is the same situation as a company getting seud for racism for firing an ethnic minority.
And later on it turns out that the ethnic minority sucked at his job, and was fired legit grounds.
It's just that Microsoft is a bunch af friggin retards that think sexuality is "ewwww!"
a company is not a living breathing entity.
A company is a stack of policy's that enforces its rules trough roles.
Live does not have a minimum age specification, so children can get on it as well, which means sexuality has no place on live.
MS protects this girl from getting herassed, and makes sure that no children get exposed to sexuality, this way Live remains a clean platform that can also be enjoyed by minority's.
I think their wallets and bank accounts say otherwise bud.
Edit*
Microsoft and 50 cent is two different worlds. MS don't make rap music for kids and wannabe gansters they make software.
'To throw that in your point is simple and cheap
But with the story, first of all her homosexuality should have not been brought out into a gaming community online cause it will not go well with the rest... Then MS will have to deal with the harassment complaints. and who knows she could have been preaching her homosexuality to others.
You know they do have community management policys they have to work with..
And do you REALLY believe that MS saw this and said "Guys... this poor girl will be harrassed if we do nothing. Let's ban her."
@ II Necroplasm II
Yeah well I guess 50 cent is a genius too
Fact is sexuality doesnt belong on Live, doesnt matter wether your straight or homo or asexual, it doesnt belong on live, its a video game service, not a meet and greet for people wanting to get sexual.
Oh, and i dont give rats about the pope either, i believe in a creator and an afterlife, but religion is crap in my opinion.
I've been thinking about this. At first I took the stance that everyone seemed to take, the "Bah, who cares, shoulda read teh polisees..." position. But then, I realised something. Why should someone being gay offend anyone?
Now, the usually first resort tactic is the "Think of teh childrunz!" otherwise known as the "Soccer mom" approach. Thing is, by agreeing to those terms of use you are *certifying* that you are 18 years old (or the age of majority, dependant on country or region), otherwise known as a discerning adult. Those little kids shouldn't be there in the first place.
As well as this, perhaps it is this aversion to exposing children to homosexuality that is the problem. We have no problem showing them heterosexual emotion and love, and they find it normal. I believe it's when you shield them from it until they're older that it becomes an issue. At that point, it's considered abnormal behaviour by someone, as they've been very accustomed to the idea that romantic love only truly exists between men and women. Might just explain why this girl was harassed so vehemently.
The second defence that is usually is usually brought up is the big brother tactic, the "saving them from themselves" idea. What a load of crap. They should have to hide or change aspects of their personality to appease the disagreeing and harassing masses? Remember the 18 years old certification, that means that they are discerning adults, willing to accept the responsibility of deliberately outing themselves via their profile. This is often a significant aspect of their lives, it is a character defining milestone. They had the guts to tell everyone how they really think, which is something that should be celebrated, not silenced and banned.
At the end of the day if your gay then cool you have a sexual choice and a brave one at that. But does that mean you have to tell 10 year old children about that sexual choice instead of just letting them make there own minds up in life no. There is no need what so ever to have "I am lesbian" in your profile its a gamer tag for gamers. Besides your only inviting your self to get stalked by extremely sad 16 to 22 year old gamers.
There's a time and a place for everything being gay in a gay bar or giving your partner a quick kiss down the street, Doing what the hell you want in private places is fine. Making out with your partner in the middle of a playground is pushing it in peoples faces that don't want there kids around it the same apples to xbox live. Microsoft are stuck between a rock and a hard place keeping Xbox live child friendly and having to cross messy area's of human rights.
If I had that choice I would of asked it been removed and explained my reasons behind such actions. If they for some reason felt to get petty over it and demand it remains for some foolish reason I would of taken the same action and banned them.
Are gay and want to run out in the middle of the road and scream your sexuality for all the world to hear but keep it at that and leave it off Live. I am on Live to game, not hear about your sexuality. It has nothing to do with your sexuality being "eeww", it's about respecting those of us that don't want/need/care to hear about it.
Just don't bring up sexuality at all so that as a parent, I don't feel like I have to filter for content. It's one thing to just mute an idiot spouting nonsense on a Live mike, it's definitely another to be told continually that a lesbian just killed you, over and over again.
Believe me as a parent, if I have to filter for stuff like this, Live gets cancelled the next day.
HE got insanely rich thu some investment deals. He made a sh*t ton of cash off Coca-Cola thru the Vitamin Water deal(about 400mil--100mil after the IRC took their share).
Not every wrapper out there ends up as broke as MC Hammer, lol.
If youre gay, good for you, but nobody needs to hear about it.
I dont get up in the morning and say "Oh my god....im soooooo straight, its crazy! I do chicks all day!" to every person I meet.
"if someone was declaring they were straight, would they be banned?"
"if someone was declaring they were celibate, would they be banned?"
"if someone declared they were Christian, would they be banned?"
if the answer is "no" or "probably not" to any one of those, then banning her was wrong.
Homosexuality is "filthy" and immoral, not to mix religion and our political debate here, the bible states that a man should love a woman. Not a woman and a woman, nor a man and a man. The facts are that this practice is out there and I don't believe for a second that it is right for a company to ban a person for expressing their beliefs. They need to accept the fact that some people who play their games are going to be of the homosexuality variety.
What Microsoft did was way out of line and I think that there should be some sort of reprimanding happen to them. They need to learn a lesson and not just say "oops, we did a bad thing, here is an 'apology' we are 'sorry'".
I personally don't have anything against people of a different orientation, although if someone just publicly goes out and announces this kind of stuff to get attention I might have a problem with them, but not the community as a whole.
Microsoft just earned some of my respect.
I would expect sony to be as strict with their service as ms. I think sexual preference falls in line with religious belief and should be a personal thing.
This same thing will happen in home you can bet on that.
no matter 'how much they want to defend this girl' microsoft is going against the law.. i cant remember specifics, but i think it is the sex discrimination act 1986.. they can legally be sued and it is very hard for them to come out on this..
@foxgod
you seriously don't have to defend microsoft.. microsoft is liable for discriminating against an individual over their sexual preference and they shouldnt discriminate.. i doubt you'd like it if you were gay and you were banned..
meh either.. MS is wrong here, and they shud put this right rather than defending such an action!!
Although wouldn't that law only apply to the workplace? An area where Microsoft is already on good terms with various HR groups including the LGBT?
I'm not sure if I understand what you said.
Basically, we agree but your first sentence says homosexuality is immoral.
Microsoft bans people when they have enough complaints about them. Gay people don't complain about straight people, so Microsoft doesn't ban them. It's that simple. Microsoft doesn't seek people out to ban. They are forced to do what the community demands.
On the PSN you can say whatever you want.
The difference is you're not paying for psn. Sony doesn't care. Paying customers on live don't want to be subjected to some kind of gay rights agenda, and Microsoft has to listen.
Read this:
http://majornelson.com/arch...
This applies to both Sony and MS. MS is known to be fair with the lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender.
In addition, the person supposedly banned was actually supsended. Banned means the person completely lost the use of account, but in suspension you can rectify it and use the account again.
I'm frankly suprised at the ignorant comments getting so many agrees. I'm wondering if it is fanboyism or just plain ignorance?
Is this really still a big deal in this day and age. Banned and harassed for using the L word. If you haven't heard what a lesbian is by now, you are way too closed off from the world and it is about time that you learned anyway. Banned for saying you are a lesbian is the stupidest thing I've ever heard and it should not be defended by ant means!
yes in deed that would be a very different story, however, from what i have gotten so far, is that such thing has not happened between people beside other people harrasing this girl..
@IdleLeeSiuLung
that still doesn't change the fact that MS is discriminating at a community.. may this be in the ToS or not, its still discrimination..
i guess MS knows what they are doing and that is why they're defending their decision..
Microsoft dont defends Lesbian banning.
They just dont want sexual names.
A person can be lesbian and write her normal or nick name and Microsoft wont ban her just because she is lesbian.
I have been asked by several people online if it is a gay reference. Several people have made fun (and trust me it rolls off me like water on oil) of my name and even kicked me off of some servers for having this gamertag (homophobs most likely). Why hasn't MS banned me?
I am not taking a stand one way or the other but I honestly don't understand MS's policy on this. Especially when kids runs rampant online screaming all types of sexual and racist profanity. Seriously who are they trying to protect? It's the kids on XBL that are usually the biggest Aholes spewing filth and talking trash.
This just seems really inconsistent on the part of Microsoft. I have seen tons of people on XBL with gamertags and personal information that are extremely offensive and insensitive. (Hitler, Bin Laden, racial, sexual, etc...)
If they are going to go down this road and take this stand they need to be more efficient and consistent at it.
that is exactly what I had in my mind, its either all or non :)
well i am not sure on this, but if enough people report you that name will get banned.
i don't know if people had reported this girl or what. i had a friend who's tag was pumpumstaber he got banned because of it.
anyway, i hear what you are saying and if they are just enforcing it like that then ya it is very wrong. if they only get informed by the feedback left by gamers then they would only know of the names that people highlight.
...it sucks that this happened anyway, because so what if she is a lesbian? Do you go on XBOX LIVE to play games or do you do it to harass the sh!t outta people? It doesn't make any sense...
She made her sexual orientation known to that community and I guess she shouldn't have(it was in the rules after all), but it just sucks that somebody had a problem with her and now she can't use her account anymore.
You wanna go online and play videogames with the world, you should be ready to encounter some people that live their life a little differently than you do. And when you do, just play the damn game.
That's what it's all about.
The way I see this it comes down to how much Live (or PSN, or Wii Online) wants to be a gaming portal and how much it wants to be a social networking platform.
I think we can all agree the sexuality has no impact or affect on your ability to play games, therefore as a gaming portal sexuality is irrelevant.
However the more Live (and HOME etc..) want to become social networking and interaction platforms, the more they will have to deal with these kind of issues. On a social level (see MySpace or Facebook) sexuality can be more relevant to interaction and personal identity.
I understand Microsoft's position, but as a service Live (and HOME) needs to define itself and it's purpose and not bury it's head in the sand over these issues.
As these companies move further towards social networking they are going to have to deal with these issues. However I don't think allowing sexual orientation to be used in Gamertags/PSN names is every going to be useful. It's just not necessary.
That's true, both Live and PSN need to make clear what kind of service they want to be, just a hub for game multiplayer or a complete social network with all its pros and cons, like facebook,my space,hi5, etc..
I was looking forward to playing UNO with my vision camera, her and a few of her Lady friends! ;)
Now problem is you dont see hetero people getting reported or banned for constant sex talk or harassement .
BOTH should be banned .
I don't stick 'Straight gamer' on my gamertag, so why does this person feel the need to broadcast? If a person wants to get in to a lesbian or gay clan/faction/guild or whatever, there are plenty of better ways to do that (try Google!!) than sticking it on their Live account.
I don't care if people in a guild/clan I belong to are gay or straight, or the people in the guild/clan I am fighting are gay or straight - I'm there to play games.
A persons sexual orientation is a personal thing - it's not a lifestyle choice (or shouldn't be) it's just the way we're wired up. It should have little to no barring on the melting pot that is society and make no difference at all to online gaming.
I don't think MS should have banned her, but perhaps a simple request to change her details would have sufficed.
Nothing wrong here , except that no one should frickin' care and it's not the time and place for it .
Kinda the same here , it's a place for gaming , for kids and adults alike , and not a place to proclaim your sexuality ...
If you seek pro activiely , black , white , indian , gay , lesbian , black lesbian , indian gay , hetero radio amateur fans ... there are hundred of chat and community for that .
and point out in caps: "I'm as straight as an arrow !! I luuurve girls !!"
And THEN, somebody else should report that person and we'll have a grand case of hemp fandango. Will Microsoft react in the same way they did to this specific case? The suspense, she is killing me. Anybody gonna try this?
That's what you get..
I don't remember any field for sexual preference on Xbox live, so keep your personal life your personal life. No one on xbl cares if you're gay. it's people that go out of their way to make sure everyone knows that get's burned. hopefully microsoft goes to her house, takes her xbox and smashes it.
wasnt there an option so only those people in your friendslist could see your profile??? im not sure but i think i saw something like that ( i never use such options )
so that would have maybe an solution for her problem...
If my profile had to say "26 year old African-American", could I be banned for racism?
This is just as stupid, I think.
Paid her hard earn money to be ban because she is not socially accepted...
a person made a great point..if she said she said was a christian would she be banned?
If she said she said was a serial killer would she be ban...?
Also I thought you have to be 18 years old to sign the agreement to to be on LIVE?
If she was in banjo kazooie proclaiming she was gay yeah there is some wrong with that...but if she was playing COD 4 or 5 which you should be 18 to play who cares...
It's all about the context of the situation she should of not been ban...that is why I am not renewing my MS membership...and plus I have a PS3...I play for FREE
its common sense, you get on live or psn for GAMING...not to see how much attention you can get from guys or girl...we are all there for that purpose...i think if she is exposing herself or talking about it and somebody find that offensive then so be it, she would deserve it. im a girl gamer and i don't get on to see how much attention i can get from guys. i'm there to play, that's what a gamer does. there's rules and regulations for both live and psn.
as far as it goes for the whole 18 to be on live, your parents can sign up for it and let you play they have to monitor it. i know lots of parents that play and also let there kids play with there friends which look out for them when they are online, parents shouldn't have to worry about there kids getting on and having to go in a room with people that wanna be idiots and say obscene things that shouldn't be spoke of. think about it, would YOU want your kid getting in a room and having to hear someone talking about things little kids shouldn't hear? i wouldn't want my kids to have to hear something like that until they are old enough to know what that stuff is!
when signing up for live if you look in the rule and stuff that you agree to it does say in there that your aren't suppose to bring up religion and other personal preferences on live. there for if you are talking about that stuff you deserve all that comes to you, sorry i don't feel sorry for anyone that chooses not to follow there rules. i have been playing on live since the 1st xbox and never had a problem with any of it!! i have also met alot of great people online that i play with with no bs what so ever.
Ok I'll go on Xlive and say I'm straight. I'll see if I get banned.
Face it. MS is homophobic, just like half of the people here
so if than its safe to say the same for PSN then? you are just like all the other IDIOTS who would think it's ok to expose yourself to little kids that have no idea what it means. your pitiful, you belong behind bars. i feel so sorry for anybody that ever lets you around kids, being that they are looking out for the kids get on live and others that don't care what preference you like better, people that get on PSN and LIVE are mainly there for 1 thing, and that's for gaming...guess we know what YOU get on there for!!
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Shut the hell up. Why would they even have profiles, locations, chat etc. if it was all about 'gaming'?
You're clearly a total moron thinking that children should be shielded from the realities of life. I can imagine you think it's more appropriate that children play gore-filled, murderous games than to see 'lesbian' harmlessly pop up on the screen. If so, you're wrong!
Hahahaha at people trying to claim MS were 'protecting her'. Yeah, right. If that was the case they'd have offered her a change in GT. It's corporation policing peeps, get used to it.
I see that all the fanboys are the ignorant bigots. What's funny to me is I actually find the exhibiting of one's sexuality perplexing, yet I wouldn't care so much as to want them banned from a gaming service. Sure as hell aren't gonna raise as much of a fuss with my kids.
I'm not an advocate for homosexuality or anything and If a person was to tell me that they are gay or lesbian i'm not going to harrass them because that is how they are as a person and i have no right to judge them. But I think Microsoft knows good and well that people do get harrassed on Xbox Live. And no matter what ayone says, IT IS HARD TO POLICE SUCH A LARGE ENVIRONMENT. There are so many servers and so many games on Xbox Live that the expenses for moderating on such a large scale with be catastrophic. I play games on xbox live all the time and i get harrassed sometimes becuase i'm of African American descent and people for some reason have an urge to cal me the N-word becuas they have nothing better to say. Its not in my gamertage that i'm black, and its not in my profile that i'm black either but i guess i may tend to sound like what a "typical black guy" would sound sometimes. I don't go out of my way to let people know that i'm black and i don't go around yellign black power or some sort of nonsense like that. It just happens and I have to deal with it. Now concerning this lesbian chick. She should of known that if she was to do something like that that it would cause a lot of problems. I'm not saying it is right or not, but it is reality and it will happen. Xbox Live is an outlet to play your games online, not to promote your sexual orientation becuas it is irrelevent online. Just like me being black is irrelevent online.
And is it just me or are the ones say the most homophobic or racist things on Xbox Live are little kids??
The MS should ban you too, for your own protection.
See how DUMB this is?
the differnce is i don't go around procaiming my ethnic background like this chick did....no they shouldn't of banned her...they were completely wrong for that, they should of suspended it like they said they would of...but i was talking more about the initial actions she chose to took that led to this...i'm not justifying that MS should of banned her
That's what the likes of MySpace and FaceBook and even youtube are for surely?
My names bdvjhsdvb and i like to wear womens clothing!
Why?
Totally pointless...
The main problem is many of these 'kids' the censuring is for are the ones starting this... frickin' hormone crazy preteens.