This week, Joshua Hyles from LoadingReality.com explains why Nintendo will never be able to break into the hardcore market with their current system, the Wii. Wii Shout is a weekly column by LR.
Really, it always makes my day to go to the zoo and laugh at all the people who think they know what they are talking about, but they don't. It's kinda like watching a fish that jumps onto dry land, thinking it can breath out of the water. Let's break this down, shall we? First off, he starts off with the holiday season. Okay...well, for the sake of his argument you would have to ignore the rest of 2008 (and admittedly slow year for us Wii owners) otherwise it wouldn't make any sense, right? Actually, that first argument doesn't even make any sense, since I think out of the games he mentioned, Animal Crossing was the only Nintendo holiday release. If he's going to mentioned Wii Fit and Mario Kart, he might as well mentioned Super Smash Bros. since Mario Kart only came out a month afterwards. Oh, but wait, that would ruin his whole "not a single one of them rated T" bullcrap. Sorry, when you're trying to make a point, casually omitting certain facts to prove your point is not how it works. He goes on to say that Nintendo will try to break into the hardcore market with games like Madworld, House of the Dead, and Dead Rising. A couple of fallacies with that claim. The first one is that Nintendo isn't making any of those games or really even publishing any of them. And you know what? Nintendo didn't go up to them and say "make some hardcore games for us kthx!" In interviews for Madworld, the lead developer said the Wii was chosen because the controls made a game with a new experience, in fact, the people behind The Conduit said the same thing, and Suda51 said the same thing about No More Heroes. Secondly, going back to his first paragraph-like monstrosity, he instantly clumps anything less than a T rating as "not hardcore". Excuse me, but that's also not how it works. Super Mario Galaxy is hard after you get passed the first 60 stars. Warioland's extra challenges are near impossible, and Fire Emblem is not a game any one not familiar with gaming can jump right into. Heck, even Animal Crossing is not a game worth the money if you don't dedicate the time to playing it, since it works in real time. It would be nice to think that Nintendo has forgotten about the hardcore crowd...but since they are bringing back Sin and Punishment and a new Zelda and Mario confirmed, it's kind of hard to go with that statement. Lastly, to answer this guy's last statement where they have better be more announcements for Wii stuff, they already have. The rock you're living under might be causing your internet connection to be slow, because there are a ton of games already announced that has Wii owners excited. Of course, it might also help if you take your hands off your ears and stop chanting "the wii is not hardcore lalalalalala the wii is not hardcore lalalala I can't hear you lalalalala"
Very well put and I agree with you 100%. Bubbles to you. Actually, that pretty much leaves me with nothing else to add or even to reply to really as you seem to have summed up the article as well as finding the faults it had along with it. So I guess I should just end by saying Agree & Bubbles :).
What hardcore games Xander? I need a list. Also, Super Mario Galaxy is ooooooooooooooold now. Warioland is not classified in anyone's mind as hardcore. Zelda and Mario are hardcore, but when are those games coming? They haven't said and even if they did, it would probably be a ways off. I'm not saying hardcore games have to be Teen or above, but most are and the ones that I exampled were not hardcore games in anyone's eyes. Also, I named those games because they sold incredibly well in the holiday, NOT because they CAME OUT in the holiday season. Don't try to read between the lines. I want the Wii to break into the market of hardcore gamers. I hate it when people say the Wii is catering to the hardcore gamer fine, and then don't have anything to back it up. How long's it been since a good, solid hardcore classified game came out on the Wii? Even if you think it hasn't been that long, the consistency is way off compared to other systems. You don't have to agree with me, but make a good argument.
First off, who suddenly made you the king of what is hardcore and what is not? What exactly makes a game hardcore and what doesn't? In my mind, Warioland is a hardcore game, why? It's a 2-D platformer. A casual game is something you can just pick and play, and while you can get through the story pretty easily, all of the extra stuff is incredibly difficult. A hardcore game is a game that is meant for the gamers right? That has always been my impression at least. I can rattle off some more (and I will), but it's going to be hard if you just shoot things off as "not hardcore" without giving a proper reason. So... Super Smash Bros. Brawl, No More Heroes, Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess, Metroid Prime 3, Super Mario Galaxy, Fire Emblem, Warioland, Red Steel, Deadly Creatures, Castlevania: Judgement, Animal Crossing (yes, it's a hardcore game, doesn't matter about it's premise, it requires time and dedication), Tales of Symphonia, House of the Dead: Overkill, Mario Kart Wii, House of the Dead: Overkill, Mushroom Men, Disaster: Day of Crisis (if you are in the UK and hopefully someday in the US) and Tenchu: Shadow Assassins. Those are the ones that are out now and they are all exclusive (you can count TP or not, I don't care). The only reasons I mentioned the older games from 2007 is because it's evident that Nintendo already went hardcore, a long time ago. Games to come: Madworld, The Conduit, Cursed Mountain, Dead Space: Extraction, No More Heroes 2, Red Steel 2, The Wii-makes, Sin and Punishment 2, Marumasa: The Demon Blade, Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: the Crystal Bearers, Overlord: Dark Legend, Punch-out Wii, Indiana Jones and the Staff of Kings, Monster Hunter Tri, Arc Rise Fantasia, and probably more that I can't name off the top of my head. Is that enough for you? Heck, you can disagree with me, but if you want to say the Wii has no hardcore games try opening a copy of Nintendo power...or looking about this very site. Oh and to answer your question about how long it's been since the Wii released a hardcore game. The answer is a little over 2 weeks ago when they House of the Dead Overkill came out.
I know it wasn't directed at me Loading, but if I might chime in would Monster Hunter Tri~ count? Even though a release date hasn't been set into stone as of yet, I feel that it would be classified as a hardcore game, not to mention Monster Hunter G and even Tatsunoko vs. Capcom. The majority of games that would be considered hardcore just never seem to be localized. For the most part I would say their are a few games up and coming that have some hardcore aspects; but then again may be seen as casual (Crystal Chronicles maybe? I'm not to sure) All I know is most of the hardcore games rarely get here, have to hunt for those things in different places :). [Edit] I see Xandar replied well before I did.
I have to admit, there are some nice, good, hardcore games on the Wii. I'm not saying there aren't. There are. I am just a little annoyed about the long times between some good games. You listed 15 games, and I know it's picky. and that's not all the great hardcore games that have come out on the Wii, but the system has been out for 27 months. That's a horrible game-per-month ratio. Also, it's been 27 months since the last Zelda game. I don't want to get into a huge flame war, and I love the Wii and the game it has on it. I actually do own Wii fit, SSBB, Super Mario Galaxy, and a few other games, but I just wish there were more. Can we agree on that? You made a good list of upcoming games, and I am looking forward to about 75% of those, but most of the rest of the world won't even care about many of them. They'll sell like crap and Nintendo won't do the games justice through advertisement.
Wind waker came out in mid 2003, Twilight Princess came out in late 2006. That's almost 4 years for the console Zelda's...why do you expect that a new one should come out in 2 years? (Phantom Hourglass for the DS is a great Zelda game, it came out last year, so technically it hasn't been that long since a Zelda game came out). And we can talk about marketing all-day long, House of the Dead and Madworld are getting a lot of commercial time, so I dunno. Sure we can agree that we want more. But I'm guy that can get maybe one game a month. I've saved up my Christmas gift cards for Madworld and Sonic and the Black Knight (forgot to mention that one), but this month, I had to choose between HotD: Overkill, Deadly Creatures, and Tenchu (I went with Overkill) so...I it's not like I need 10 epic games released every month.
Well said Xander.
Away from the whole idea of "hardcore" and "casual" all together. It reminds me of the marketing scheme Sega used against Nintendo back in the day with attempting to stigmatize their then competitor as the "Kiddy" system. I understand the distinction trying to be made but, I feel its just a bunch of politicos trying to get the ruler out. But anyway, I feel Xander did make a valid argument (on both posts) I see alot of fans of other consoles, cheifly the PS3, get pist off when an xbox fan tries to say PS3 doesn't have any games worth owning besides mgs4, or vice cersa for ps3 fans to say xbox is nothing but a shooter console. Then turn around and make such outlandish claims about the Wii. Its a tired merry-go-round as far as I'm concerned. I've said this since the Wii became a smash hit, it is following the same trend as the DS. The same phrases and arguments were being said about that system as well. Now I doubt anyone is still calling the DS a fad or a handheld that doesn't have any "hardcore" userbase. At least not if they're sane. And DS has a library with games like brain training and Nintendogs. I don't believe the statement that Wii will never attract the hardcore gamer. See in my perspective, the truly "hardcore" gamer follows the games, not the systems themselves. Sony is learning this the hard way this gen. Nintendo learned this two gens ago. The financial climate has exposed the broken business model of HD gaming. Many of these companies will be looking at the Wii for salvation (for lack of a better word). There are consequences for ignoring the marketleader. And don't give the tired attitude of "graphics and horsepower" if that were true the psp would be wiping the floor with the DS, and console gaming would have been way past destroyed by the PC gaming world by now.
Another wonderful post. It's also Nintendo's userbase, lower production cost on games, and unique controller scheme that is attracting third party developers (just like the DS). Remember when Sega said the Wii was a terrible idea? Looks who is publishing some of the most anticipated games of the year now.
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