Did the Xbox 360 Reach its Limit?

A lot of people say that Xbox has a wide selection of games and has the top quality line ups year after year but if you really think about it, they don't.

[Xheratuul]

yes

[II Necroplasm II]

So when you started to be a developer for XBox 360 games?

[Dimitri]

In an interview with Gameplayer regarding Red Faction: Guerrilla, producer Rick White claims that they have maxed out the power of the Xbox 360 and have already starting looking towards the Xbox 720 for their next projects. Full interview through the link.

http://www.n4g.com/News-253...

Enough said.

[blackbeld]

Agree... Veraegic. They maxed out too the limit's for Gears of war 2 but as you can see..... There is no difference in graphic's with Gears of war 1..

That is the truth... I know i will get many disagree from the bots..

But it's the truth..

[n to the b]

sure it is /sarc. lol what about how no 1 anticipated Shadow of the Colossus or Okami graphics on PS2?? yeah I'm sure we'll never get a better-looking 360 game, it's totally maxed /more sarc.

and of course let's not forget that this is a poorly-written blog by someone with a 5th-grader IQ (u did read the actual 'article', right?).

I think the word they use 4 this on n4g is FAIL?

[Consoldtobots]

"They maxed out too the limit's for Gears of war 2 but as you can see..... There is no difference in graphic's with Gears of war 1."

yet we have to listen to ignorant kids talk about how the 360 GPU pwns the RSX seven ways from Sunday. One is producing hype generating visuals and the other is being read its last rites. Silly wabbits, talking about console technology isn't for kids.

[NewZealander]

has it? well ask sony fans, as usual they have all the answers.

but i guess we will find out when splinter cell conviction and alan wake get released.

[MasFlowKiller]

their is always ways to make your code more efficient

until MS get some serious 1 first party support, that will continually work on making the tools for 360 games better,

then we wont know wat the console can and cant do

[DJ]

And Microsoft claims it has the best Dev tools in the industry that immediately tapped the console's power. So you're saying they mislead us all this time? That it's capable of a lot more. But that developers are just incapable of utilizing its "hidden power"?

[thats_just_prime]

Its just a dumb a$$ fanboy talkin crap there isnt 1 thing in that article that is true.

There always new way to code and new software to take advantage of hell their are only 2 games out that use euphoria and only 1 game that use DMM. That gives you an idea of how much they can still push both the ps3 and the 360

[BRG9000]

NEWS does not:

-Have a question mark in the headline.

-Have the phrase "but if you really think about it..." in the article.

I could go on. Doesn't belong here, or really anywhere people might accidentally read it.

[KarIostomy]

Has the 360 reached its limit?

Huh?

The 360 improves on the limits of its nearest competitor with nearly every Multiplat that is released, including the most recent ones.

It really looks like the 360 limits are just a little bit better than the competition.
So I guess, no, the 360 hasn't reached its limits, if it continues to outperform in so many areas.

But that's just my 2c.

[majorsuave]

Why was this blog even approved?

History thought us that no console reached its limit and stayed on a plateau after a short bit.
PS2 games are still getting better after 10 years and 360 games would if a single 360 remains in working condition in 7 years from now.
Same goes on all platforms.

[Lifendz]

can anyone say that they weren't impressed? Seriously, if the limit is Gears of War 2 then that's a pretty darn good limit. But I doubt that's the case. Alan Wake looks like it'll raise the bar for 360 games and then some game will come along and raise the bar even higher. This happens every gen. Heck, look at MadWorld and you can't help but be impressed with what devs are doing with a glorified gamecube aka The Wii. (Couldn't resist).

[UnwanteDreamz]

I don't even own a 360 and I can tell you games will get better and so will gfx. Like how long have you guys been playing games? Take the last 4 or 5 major consoles and compare thier first gen games to their last.

[ActionBastard]

I dunno. With the 360 going into it's 4th year and Gears 2 looking slightly better than Gears 1, I'm unsure we should expect the types of leaps we've seen from Sony going in it's 3rd year. Year after year, we've seen 1st party PS3 games get better and better looking, while 360 UE3 games relatively remain the same. Fable 2 isn't a graphical powerhouse. Halo 3 isn't. Ninja Gaiden 2 isn't and the only screens we've seen from Alan Wake are PC. Multiplatform games are always going to look the same. MS published/1st party games don't come close to what we've seen with Heavy Rain, Uncharted 2, God of War 3 or Killzone 2. Until then, IMO, it's peaked.

[Stubacca]

This stuff is just ridiculous. IT'S A BLOG!!! I'm no fan of the X-box, but this aint really news. These silly "R.I.P 360" and "The PS3 is dying" articles are lame blogs. Not news. This stuff is makin this site so crap I think I might go back to IGN or Gamesradar for ACTUAL gaming news...

[FrankenLife]

Yes it did.

Another article that could have been shortened to a single sentence.

[No Way]

You gots lots of disagrees nd by from what you said, I would say they came from the PS3 fanboys..

But, I guess you rally can't push the PS3 anymore. =)

Jokes.

[pixelsword]

That game is all kinds of sick.

[MNicholas]

The article is utter rubbish but miraculously the premise is correct. The reality is that the 360's performance is pretty much tapped out. The benefit of using a straightforward and familiar architecture is that developers can quickly max out it's performance. The few challenges with 360 development were overcome within the first year. The two big ones were tiling (compare PGR3 and PGR4) and using all three CPU cores without causing horrendous cache misses due to tiny 1MB cache. That's about it. The other bottlenecks and hang-ups are pretty much uncurable. For example, there's only so much you can do with 1MB of cache, particularly if part of it's locked up for streaming.

That's why there has been no improvement in 360 graphics since year 1. What I'd like to see is a 360 game based on the ideas and art-style of the Wii's MadWorld.

[phosphor112]

Just because something is easy to program for doesn't mean its prone from having syntax errors. Java is one of the easiest languages to program for, but even in a small program, it is easy to lost during all the debugging. And no..MS never has the best dev kits. I've used every visual studios, the NXA and I've always found open source dev kits to be so much better, because they don't need to follow MS's always strict rules..

disagree if you want, but you try programming. It's not easy.

[Helghast Slayer]

Yep it's way past it's limits. Several devs have spoken out loud and said the 360 has been maxed out. Lets face it, if the 360 was able to churn out graphically superior games it would have done so starting with Gears 2 but that turned out to be Gears 1.5 even with a dev (EPIC GAMES) who knows the ins-and-outs of the 360 hardware.

The 360 has been out longer than the ps3 so ask yourself why hasn't it seen a substantial amount of graphical growth? Why is the ps3 devastatingly widening the gap when it comes to quality gaming? Why has the ps3 grown so much in such a short amount of time while the 360 has been on the market for nearly 4 years?.

The simple answer is the ps3 has more power and quality devs who know exactly how to develop for the ps3. The 360 isn't going anywhere anytime soon but don't expect the quality in gameplay and graphics of future titles to see an huge lift.

Even GOW3 is proving that the ps3 is a beast with it's (god knows how huge) gigantic titans and what not as a moving level in it self. Now that is what you call EPIC. That is what you call innovation people.

EDIT: To the childish troll who disagreed with my logically correct rant, why don't you post your disagree so we can have a logical debate? ooops.

[NaiNaiNai]

why not post it in the gaming zone then? plus does it matter if the 360 is maxed out, the ps2 hit max after year 2. yet it still continued to sell well. correct me if im wrong, wasn't last gen "graphics don't matter gameplay does" but now its all graphics even if it plays like crap.
-nai-

[N4PS3G]

its called better devs and new engines ..something MS does not have right now..or maybe is not showing at the moment ..and Sony apparently has too many

and about Gears 2 not being a big jump..neither was Resistance 2 from the first one.. anyways.. Sony does have better 1st party devs...won't argue ..thas why uncharted ..killzone and God of War look good... but don't go so fast .. lets see what the competition can do when they show their guns.. oops

[Helghast Slayer]

Unfortunately you'll be playing that "lets wait and see" game for a very long time. Deal with it, the 360 is at it's peak.

[hippo24]

Coming from a man with Helghast in his name means very little.

[N4PS3G]

i'll be playing wait and see ..because the 360 is at it's peak? really?? how do i play with graphics??

[Droid Smasha]

Did you really just call out Gears2?
The game that smashed Waitstations entire holiday lineup. You really are retarded.

[Helghast Slayer]

Hahaha the 360 butt buddies are in full deploy. Looks like a hit a sentitive nerve or two, or three lol. Calm down children there's always hope for Gears 2.5

[ps92117]

is that so, the only reason 360 sold well was because price drop and a hell lot of advertisements, subsequently gow2 also sold good but kill ps3 lineup, lol don't joke around.

[outlawlife]

for such a logically correct rant you should know that statement isn't logically possible

you also need to straighten out your "its vs. it's"

the fact is the article sucks, just because a console has supposedly peaked graphically does not mean that it cannot produce amazing games

the guy who wrote it is a idiot

[N4PS3G]

@ helghast slayer

Oh! Didn't you want to have a logical debate with those who didn't agree with you?

and now you are calling butt buddies? whats wrong? this times your butt buddies are not here to help you?

you don't even seem to understand that consoles are not the reason of maxing out graphics... thats where game engines come in///do you think Gears 2 jump in graphics wasn't tha big because of the 360 being maxed out? Didn't you stop and think that the game is running on the same engine as the first game that they updated it a bit?? that was created years ago ?

Do you think Left 4 Dead looks so outdated because the 360 is maxed out? or maybe because Valve's source engine is old..and was created for Half Life 2 on 2004?

reply to me while you keep searching for your buddies pal ;)

[Helghast Slayer]

*sigh* it's been more than 5 replies and so far not a single one of you 12year olds have been able to answer my questions above. I'm really starting to believe you 360 loyalists are a bunch of rabbid 12year old baboons that roam this site.

So much for thinking otherwise.

[N4PS3G]

what a nice way of wasting your last bubble after being proven wrong.... you can reply to my last post if you want ;)

[lokiroo420]

@n4ps3g

yeah right, it was the gears engine that was maxed, right. then where is there another game that surpasses that? an extra year hasnt done squat, what does that point to? the hardware or software? like what was said where is the growth? ps3 is accelerating forward, 360 is coasting and not much is showing that looks like it is going to change. yeah i know, i know, wait until e3 right, see you then.

[Droid Smasha]

LOL

[ambientFLIER]

Gears 2 was limited by the engine, not the 360.

[ps92117]

halo wars amazing game? l&d amazing game? GeOW2 amazing game? yeah very amazing, anyway, as far as I am concerned M$ does not own Naughty Dog, Team ICO, Santa Monica, Polyphony and Zipper.

[N4PS3G]

@ lokiro

please show all the big games that came out after Gears 2 running on new engines that prove the 360 is maxed out?

That way you could show me how bad and outdated it looks.. oh yeah ..you can't because there isn't any ...when a new big game comes out ..from a good dev ..and a new engine ..and it looks like crap..then come back here ... see you then

[lokiroo420]

come on 360 had over a year head start, is that all you can say, their progression should be ahead of the ps3, yet all you can say is the engines are dated. over 3 years into the 360 and nothing? the 360 hardware didnt change from the original xbox the way the ps3 did, so whats the excuse? whos to say gears 1 didnt top off the 360, how do you know, maybe gears 2 is as refined as the engine can get, which is more likely since all the box boys suckle the gears ball bag so devoutly.

@below
faulty logic, whos the one going on what ifs and wait and see? who is looking at killzone uncharted god of war and others. an extra year is extra time, doesnt that play into your wait and see argument? really i think you have confused yourself from the walking and talking in circles. is that hard to understand? like i said progression where is it you disgruntled little box boy?

[N4PS3G]

Ill give you my last bubble..for you.

what the fuk does a 1 year of head start means??

Blame the devs for using the same rehashed engines..on their new games..instead of creating something new..if thats so hard for you to understand ...refining an engine is not the same ..as using a new one.. built up from the ground.. when the Unreal engine 4 gets out ..you will understand. Can't try to explain this if you don't wanna believe...whatever..use your faulty logic and amaze the world with your stupidity.

[Godmars290]

God of War 2 says hi...

And I know you probably don't know the game, but the differences between Super Robot Wars OG and Z are pretty major.

[Graphics Whore]

N4PS3, no offense but you got some really weak arguments.

[n to the b]

Helghast Slayer u have once again proven yourself to be nothing but an ignorant turd. N4PS3G is right u say want to have a nice logical discussion and instead counter his well-made reply with nothing but name-calling. bubbles down 4 u and bubbles up 4 N4PS3G.

[edgeofblade]

Don't try to pass your opinions off as "logically correct". That's an insult to both logic and correctness.

[outlawlife]

this is 3 paragraphs of nothing

seriously, i've seen better articles come from hiphopgamer

[Lelouch V Brit]

Agree, This Article is Trash.

[IdleLeeSiuLung]

That is a complete waste of time. I wish there was a feature on this site similar to how you can ignore users, you can ignore clicks on links to other site like this one.

Complete waste of time....

actually, it looks like hiphopgamer approved this article... lol

[outlawlife]

no surprise there lol

[lokin]

yawn. here is my take(blog) on it. 360 is a wonderful gaming machine (as is the ps3). and i rock. end of story

[Lifendz]

maybe he wrote it under an alias. You know, just to see if people are biased against him and not his articles.

[hippo24]

What???

Wheres the rest of the article...it was like 3 paragraphs and cited glitches as the major problem for the 360.

Dont worry about hardware or supported titles, glitches are the new measure of a game.

[N4PS3G]

so he thinks..new games won't get perfect scores unless they have amazing graphics?

lame lame

[outlawlife]

i wasted 30 seconds of my life reading that milk carton of an article

at least he could have tried for a whole page

[nix]

i know why you go around with that name because lately all one can see is PS3 games mentioned in this site. q:

[OhReginald]

Theres still halo wars. Then Halo: ODST. Then Halo 4. Then Gears Of war 3, then Gears of War Wars.

[lord_of_balrogs]

At least those are console games. You know what's really milking? Mobile games and ipod touch games. What series does that? Oh right the Metal Gear series. There are like 20 installments compared to Halos 5 installments.

[ps92117]

sorry but how many mgs have been released for ps3, no matter in the end GeOWW will sell very good with its amazing 6th gen graphics.

[Miraak82]

just because some games are coming out doesn't really mean the system isn't maxed out considering there have been numerous developers that have stated that fact. the problem with the xbox is that since its release its capabilities were fully accessible from the start of for developers to use which is the downside of having a pc architecture that isn't upgradable . you can only fill a glass of milk so high before it spills . now it only has a smoke and mirrors effect that blinds certain people from the Truth

[Lelouch V Brit]

wow another antixbox article, I wasted my time reading this sh!t.

[ps92117]

What guns, the biggest gun they have been able to play so far is ff13 getting ported to 360. lol though to think about it they were big.

[OhReginald]

im kinda happy that it went multiplatform especially with square enix's reputation this generation....i rather have the game flop on both systems rather then on one.

[Miraak82]

its can't really eat more than it can chew in a metaphoric sense, hence why a lot of games from what I hear are very technically flawed. Even if they are enjoyable to play those technicalities will always hinder the game experience coupled with a very limited amount of space to work with. Development ambitions are getting higher and higer that developers will for the most part will venture to new territories to achieve those amitions that they want to set out to do. Whatever anyone says, PC games will always have a market and the PS3 will keep picking up stride for the simple fact it has 20 plus gaming studio to back the system up and will always garner more people to pick up the system even if it had a loss of 3rd party support in its first couple years but we can all see its starting to come back in full swing with alot of high quality 3rd party games. sega seems to be doing it . just give it more time before others follow suite

[Unicron]

Better, smarter, more efficient programming techniques will always come along as long as any system is supported. Please. This is just getting silly now.

What I DO hope more people do, however, is get away from the Unreal 3 engine. Halo 3 is one example of a clean looking, solid title not running on this wet plastic engine.

[outlawlife]

instead halo ran on the dry plastic engine...

im a 360 owner but seriously compared to other games, even those running on UE3 halo isn't very good looking

some points in the campaign look fantastic but portions of multiplayer, especially the environments are just ugly

[Unicron]

It wasn't ZOMG wow, but I felt visually it was clean, supported splitscreen well, and got the job done.

I'm just really, really sick of the wet, overnormalmapped, overbloomed U3 engine games.

[SpoonyRedMage]

Agreed, I personally think Halo 3 was much better visually than Gears of War 2, maybe not technically better but it wasn't as blergh inducing(I know that's subbjective), Halo 3 looked natural.

I also very much dislike the UE3, it's a decent engine but I don't like what Epic has done. They used hte money they got for developing the UE3 and instead made Gears of War and based the Engine around an inferior version of the Gears engine(or that's what Silicon Knights is saying), it makes it all the more apparent know that they have UE3.5 but only Gears 2 has used it, it's a kick in the nuts to the people who it was meant for.

[dkp23]

If you really spin it, they do....

[00]

people say this site is anti PS3

Anyways I was expecting more from this article.

[Socomer 1979]

yawn.
Anything else?

Mass effect is a buggy mess & bioshock?
We played that, its okay.

You guys must be really pissed about that gta4 lost & damned
full male nudity scene. Was it as meaty as they say? Did you savor it?

What games does the 360 have?
I want to know.
From where I'm standing you got jack & balls.
only 2 things you can do about that: 1 nothing & 2 like it.

Here's my killzone flag, I'm planting it right here. Feb 27, 2009.
multiplats make you think they look better because you have a SD TV.
that's not next gen & oh yeah I played that game on my ps3. I got the trophy right here.
I'm gonna talk about you in PS HOME & I leave you with this:
K I L L Z O W N E D

[lokiroo420]

xbot response: nu uh! just wait!

funny now that the tide has turned.

[hippo24]

You do know this is an XBOX article? Right?

[anubis12]

uncharted 2 is the ps3s limit and i cant wait

[DJ]

Moving on now.

[Godmars290]

So the question now becomes can devs make up for this shortcoming with gameplay?

Will MS stay out of their way to introduce new gameplay?

Game glitches say no.

[SlippyMadFrog]

I realy don't see the connection between game glitches and new gameplay. Perhaps you can enlighten us?

[Godmars290]

The manner in which you control your character and said character moves, reacts to their environment or how the environment behaves in general.

[SlippyMadFrog]

I still don't see the connection. You can have inovative gameplay with or without glitches. Glitches are dependant on the developers/engine being used, it's not tied to hardware.

[Socomer 1979]

its nice to see the xbums admit defeat to the graphical power of the ps3.
umm now its all about gameplay? Ps3 has that in spades.

Are you guys kidding me?
Tell us about the amazing gameplay you are thinking about.
gamesonsmash is turning this into graphics only contest right?
obviously , ps3 destroys all in design & technique.

Give us ps3 fanboys the gameplay experiences we can't live without & see how far this topic can go
or
get sensitive & call me a dhick.

Eventually, ps3 gamers will give too many stories of a variety of innovative gameplay.
So, what's next x-bumba-clot?

[hippo24]

buddy you've written more on this page then was present in the article.
Ironically you were able to cough up more bile.

Im beginning to think your an Xbox Fanboy with a Pro-PS3 account, because Im fairly certain people like you are hard to find beyond acquiring literacy. At every turn you spout the same nonsense and fanboyish dribble, and frankly its hard to believe someone with such passion and fervor for the PS3 would not be playing it 24/7.

[Consoldtobots]

looks like someone has started a one man crusade to defend an obsolete console. Its kinda like watching someone try to stop the sea from rushing in. lol

[hippo24]

Ok I cant tell if your talking to me or that other guy at the top.

[n to the b]

looks like someone has jumped on the ret@rd bandwagon to defend an over-hyped, under-gamed console. Its kinda like watching a bunch of lemmings dive off of a cliff. lol

[Omega6]

yes

[eagle21]

you really had to think about it?....lol

[N4360G]

Yes it has.

[creeture]

yesiree!

[NoxiousD]

As in hardware yeah. But games, HELL NO, there is still fresh ideas out there. How can the system reach its limit, its not like a dying car.. or exhausted person. Yeah, media wise but as in games no way, there is always potential plus its easier to develop on other than the PS3. I have both systems and none of the ps3 games are really in 1080 p only just a few,,, and the 360 is churning out games in 1080p..

[MONOLITHICIDE]

i believe it is like a dying car, i dont have one anymore.

[M-Easy]

I liked this quarter article.

[Bladestar]

Anyone with programming experience can tell you that there is always ways to optimize code. New algorithms and techniques are made that can improve every aspect of a game dramatically.

When you hear developers saying, "we are using 90% of the power of xxxx" they are basically saying, "we are using 90% of the power of xxxx when using our existing engine, code, and techniques"...

Take a look at the Javascript Engine used in all browsers and compare them with newer javascript engines... though they have nothing to do with hardware... one can appreciate the dramatic improvements as developers find new techniques.

This shouldn't be that difficult to understand but Sony leg humpers are simply stupid and dumb...

They've being saying that the xbox 360 was maxed out when Gears 1 came out... and as new games come out we see huge improvements in all areas... take a look at the graphics of Resident Evil 5....

arguably the xbox 360 version textures are more detailed: http://www.crunchgear.com/2...

It's obvious that the limit was not the one people were talking about when these articles started to appear...

[Consoldtobots]

the 360's problem is not in its software but in its limited hardware architecture. Basically when they saw that Sony was working with IBM on its new chip they went to IBM handed them a boatload of cash and said "we want something similiar". This was sooooooo out of place and unethical that the entire IBM team working on the cell with Sony did a collective "WTF?" If you don't believe me you can read the account in this months issue of Game Informer where they interview Dave Shippy from IBM. He tries to be nice about it but basically says that Sony knew how to properly implement the cell in its architecture while MS did a half ass job dropping the NEW PPU they designed into a LAST GEN ARCHITECTURE.

get it? comprende? do you fanboys MAYBE start to see how your bias has completely blinded you from the objective truth?

I doubt it.

[dustgavin]

Could not have said it better myself. You are a man of wise words.

Bladestar on the other hand.....

[buckethead_911]

Can some1 link me to a source where Epic said that Gears of War 2 uses around 90% of the 360's power?

[II Necroplasm II]

You mean 90% of the Unreal Engine 3 not 360.

[DJ]

http://www.joystiq.com/2006...

But it's more of "Pushes the 360 to its limits". They did improve the Unreal Engine slightly since then. But it would explain why Gears 2 looks pretty identical to Gears 1.

[buckethead_911]

No. I meant the 360's power because thats whats stated in the article. Search for it in the first para.

"The developers of Gears Of War 2 claim that it uses 90% of the Xbox’s power".

[Ldubbz]

Really? What is this crap doing on here...its not even written well at all. I love hearing a bunch of people that dont play Gears calling it glitchy. Gears runs butter smooth in single player and looks great; MP VERSUS was a bit glitchy at first (tho I never experienced this), but was patched. Horde mode never had any problems.

I still dont get it...360 games look great, and have looked great since it came out 3 years ago. All this talk of 'maxed' out is stupid; Im not a programmer, and Im sure as hell the genius that threw this piece of crap together isn't.

[SDS Gamerfiend]

Alan Wake will come out and WILL LOOK EVEN BETTER THAN KILLZONE 2! That's not saying that Killzone 2 doesn't look good so don't get me wrong. I'm just using it as a reference because everyone says that it's the best looking console game to date! The 360 isn't maxed out yet LOL! Just remember what the PS2 games started to look like when the 360 first launched! Some looked like 1st gen 360 games!

[BX81]

I think the 360 has not reached it's max. Sure they could have come a little further with the graphics. I'm sure the upcoming games will look just as good as KZ2. Think about it like this. Not all the PS3 games look like KZ2. Obviously it could be done but it just wasn't. The same will happen with the 360. Let's say it doesn't and the 360 games end up not improving graphically, are they not fun to play anymore? I didn't like the play too much of the KZ2 demo but it looks great. Does that make it a better game? The article was a waste of time, like much of the 360 hating comments. Hate all you want the system still sells and so do the games.

[Figboy]

i think Unreal Engine 3 has reached its limits on the 360.

i highlighted this in my article on my site, but in short, i think that if Microsoft dropped UE3 reliance, and made the HDD mandatory, developers could go much further than what they are currently on the 360.

the DVD9 issue is a big one, it is. Period. HOWEVER, by making the HDD mandatory from here on out, developers will be able to cache (or install), to the hard drive, and improve performance (and even increase texture data if need be).

the GPU and CPU of the 360 are clearly powerful pieces of technology. honestly, i don't think they are more powerful than the PS3's Cell/RSX combo, but the Xenon and Xenos are certainly able to produce things beyond Gears of War 2...IF developers weren't limited by the 7.5gigs of space available to them on a dual layer DVD9.

yes it sucks that Arcade only buyers would be left in the cold by a move to mandatory HDD, but it's either that, or start losing marketshare to Sony once the PS3 starts pulling away in the visual department because it's not limited by a lack of disc space, OR HDD space.

i've been playing games long enough to see how storage capacity has become increasingly important to game developers since the Legend of Zelda required a special cartridge with a battery to hold save data (and i think it also was larger than your normal NES cartridge space wise).

Ico on the PS2 was released on a CD Rom. Shadow of the Colossus was released on a DVD9.
God of War was released on a DVD. God of War 2 was released on a DVD9, but STILL had to have a second disc for the extra bonus materials.

GAMES DO NOT GET SMALLER.

i truly believe that Microsoft made an error when sticking to DVD9 this generation, BUT the HDD makes it so that it's not a big issue in the LONG RUN.

Sony isn't limited by such things. the PS3 is a b*tch to develop for, but those things are ironed out with EXPERIENCE (insert exibits Uncharted, Ratchet and Clank Future, MGS4, Resistance 2, Killzone 2, Uncharted 2, GT5 Prologue, Heavy Rain, inFamous, God of War 3, etc).

the 360 still has a lot of potential that is not being tapped because of the over-reliance on Unreal Engine 3, and the refusal to utilize an HDD to help game development.

i didn't buy an Xbox 360 (OR a PS3), so they can ride the status quo for an entire generation. 3+ years end, and we still haven't seen the 360 pull beyond the visuals of Gears of War. you can easily chart the progress of PS3 games visually. titles from 2006 do NOT look like titles from 2009.

Gears of War from 2006, well, it looks like Gears of War 2 from 2008 (with some improved lighting, but texture work is fairly even).

Uncharted 2 from 2009 completely BLOWS AWAY Uncharted from 2007.

it's not like the 360 can't do better than what it is. it has the processing power and the graphics power to do it, but UE3 is still being regarded with awe, when it's really not so cutting edge anymore. when people are saying that 50 Cent: Blood in the Sand looks good, based SOLELY on the fact that it's UE3, you KNOW you're reaching critical mass with the engine, and the plug needs to be pulled pronto.

Microsoft needs a game, built from the ground up to maximize the 360's strengths, and optimized for the Xenos and Xenon.

MGS4 did that for the PS3 (as did games like Uncharted and R&C Future, but MGS4 was the first to truly get some respect from the gaming media and the masses), but i'm sorry, Gears of War isn't really doing that for the 360.

[Grown Folks Talk]

being all silly & using logic & reason. Are you sure you posted on the right site?

[tordavis]

"Uncharted 2 from 2009 completely BLOWS AWAY Uncharted from 2007. "

Oh snap! You got to play Uncharted 2?!?!!? How is it man? PM me.

"i think Unreal Engine 3 has reached its limits on the 360. "

Agreed.

"i highlighted this in my article on my site, but in short, i think that if Microsoft dropped UE3 reliance, and made the HDD mandatory, developers could go much further than what they are currently on the 360."

Agreed.

"the DVD9 issue is a big one, it is. Period. HOWEVER, by making the HDD mandatory from here on out, developers will be able to cache (or install), to the hard drive, and improve performance (and even increase texture data if need be)."

Agree and Disagree. The majority of titles on 360 are on a single DVD. It's not a problem. In fact, it's only been a problem for John Carmack.

"the GPU and CPU of the 360 are clearly powerful pieces of technology. honestly, i don't think they are more powerful than the PS3's Cell/RSX combo, but the Xenon and Xenos are certainly able to produce things beyond Gears of War 2...IF developers weren't limited by the 7.5gigs of space available to them on a dual layer DVD9."

Agree and Disagree. It's not just space that makes games great. Fable 2, Wipeout HD, Gears of course, Fallout 3, GT5P and Forza 2 are either on a DVD or can fit on a DVD. Space is only an issue when the spec for your game REQUIRES more space such as the case with Rage, FFXIII and Lost Odyssey before it.

"yes it sucks that Arcade only buyers would be left in the cold by a move to mandatory HDD, but it's either that, or start losing marketshare to Sony once the PS3 starts pulling away in the visual department because it's not limited by a lack of disc space, OR HDD space."

Disagree. Arcade only buyers never planned on using the harddrive, that's why they bought the Arcade and it's why Microsoft will never make the HDD mandatory. I don't agree with Microsoft not making the HDD mandatory though. I think they should allow developers to make mandatory use of the HDD for bigger and better games like you said. On the other hand, in a few years this gen will be over for MS and they can go back to including a hard drive with every X3 or even throwing in Blu-Ray or 100gb HD-DVD.

Also, I've never seen a company lose marketshare because of graphic capabilities. If you look at the history of games, it's always been the graphic powerhouses of the time that failed. Look at 3DO, Neo Geo, Atari Jaguar and even Dreamcast as an example of this.

"GAMES DO NOT GET SMALLER. "

Tell that to Media Molecule and That Game Company.

"i truly believe that Microsoft made an error when sticking to DVD9 this generation, BUT the HDD makes it so that it's not a big issue in the LONG RUN."

Disagree. I would agree if the 360 came out in 2006 but in 2005 when it was released, Blu-Ray and HD-DVD weren't finalized. I DO believe that if they included HD-DVD this argument would be moot and HD-DVD would have won the format war. Again, these are things for Microsoft to consider for the X3.

"Microsoft needs a game, built from the ground up to maximize the 360's strengths, and optimized for the Xenos and Xenon. "

Disagree and Agree. It would be nice to see but Microsoft doesn't NEED a game built from the ground up to utilize the strengths. It's doing fine. I'd like you to tell us why there is a NEED for Microsoft to do this. Again, I AGREE that it would be nice to see Microsoft make a game that fully utilizes the 360

[DJ]

In addition to Microsoft not making the hard drive standard in Xbox 360. Plenty of developers have voiced concern over DVD-9 (which really has 7GB of space), including Rockstar.
http://www.computerandvideo...

[Figboy]

i had a job interview at Naughty Dog last week Friday, and i got to see Uncharted 2 being played on the PS3.

yes, it DOES blow the original out of the water visually. trust me on this. the gameplay looks pretty awesome too.

i'm just hoping i get the job. Naughty Dog is a great company, and i'd be proud to be a part of Uncharted 2's development in some capacity.

[SlippyMadFrog]

"The developers of Gears Of War 2 claim that it uses 90% of the Xbox’s power, but it doesn’t look better than Killzone 2 which is on the PS3 and only uses 60% of the PS3’s power"

These percentage claims are very inaccurate. Kojima said they maxed out the cell, what does that mean?
And the graphical difference between Gears 1 and Gears 2 is immense, I have played both thoroughly. This "atricle" could as well been written by a poster on N4G.

We will see much more from the Xbox360 and the PS3 in this gen, thinking otherwise is ignorant.

[animalia85]

neither are going to peak anytime soon. games always look better towards the end, and that end is when Microsoft and Sony say it is. MS better stick it out and not rush the Xbox 720 or i'm gonna be pissed, but I would still buy it. They just better not ever go sissy mary on us and pull a Nintendo. Next gen I want to feel bad and throw up cuz it looks like I just butchered a real person.

[TheMART]

Well, the PS3 has. KZ2 is using all the SPU's and Uncharted 2 dev also said they will use 100% of all SPU's and all power.

For the 360 no game has confirmed to use the full 100% so I guess the 360 still can evolve in games and the PS3 is left to getting just prettier BluRay movies. MGS5

[dustgavin]

You are delusional. 360 games look nowhere near as good as Ps3 exclusives and the 360 was said to be maxed with Gears of war 2.

[lelo]

"Did the Xbox 360 Reach its Limit?"

LOL... i guess now everybody is a game programmer, and know the limit of the X360.

[LostDjinn]

The problem is that Microsoft can't exceed the storage of a DVD as it will stop people who have no harddrive from playing the game.
This would render the 360 Arcade useless.
That's why the 360 doesn't install anything from disk to the HDD.

[TOM]

you can install any game you want to.

[creepjack]

Who the hell runs N4G and what idiot insists on taking ridiculous articles written on stupid fanboy blogs and posting them all the time?
Seriously, this site has ZERO credibility now a days.

[MrJack]

However I do believe that the 360 is coming closer to its limits than the PS3, but only time will tell.

[maverick1191]

i thought the maxed out game on xbox was gears 2 sadly no other game pushes the limits on the console well alan wake might but i thought that game was made up

[peeps]

i'll put my hands up and say i probably prefer my ps3 games over my 360's but damn this is really lame. The article doesn't really make a point or have any facts to back up claims and also has terrible grammar.

Seems like an attempt to fight back all the negative ps3 articles recently but quite frankly i'd wish fanboys from both sides would just shut the hell up.

who on earth decided this was a worthy news article anyway?? Seriously N4G has been terrible lately. Wonder if theres any other gaming news sites that arn't full of fanboys (i highly doubt it)

[ikral]

Let´s be honest and say, graphics does not realy matters that much. If developers have enough creativity/time/money, and they actually use it, we can have some pretty great games on any sistem. Xbox was stronger graphcally than PS2 but PS2 had GT, GoW, MGS...which are great games, no matter there was not some pixel shaders or bump mapping in it. I have PS3 and i think PS3 has great future, but fear not you who have only X360, you will have your slice of fun too.

[SpoonyRedMage]

I totally agree and thanks for being civil. Graphics aren't everything is something a lot of developers and gamers need to learn right now.

By the way, have a bubble.

[maspi]

one word: YES!
easy to program so in 1 year from the release the xbox360 has reached its limits.

[TheMART]

What you're actually saying here is that the PS3 in contrary is so hard to program, it takes years and years to get on the same level as the 360 got allmost instantly.

That ain't maxing out or not. That is just a stupid way of 'keeping power' in the machine.

Every console should be as easy to program as possible, as it doesn't have 7 years to discover it. After 5 to 6 years the next gen of consoles launches. Thus: having it easy to program and discover the hardware within a year or so would be the best thing to have the best games (multiplatform best versions as well as 1st party exclusives) to make optimal use of that power during the 5 to 6 years untill next gen arrives.

[randomwiz]

The ps3 is not hard to program for. Its dev kit includes more than the xbox. Its just that developers have to make their own engines for the ps3 which takes a lot of work, because the old engines suck on the ps3.

[Gantrfaxx]

Well maybe it hasn't met it's limit but i doubt there will be some big jumps in graphics. Let's be honest, the only thing on X360 that looks amazing is Gears Of War aka Unreal engine, which as we know also works just fine on Ps3 'cos we all saw how UT3 looks on the Ps3.
Other games look good but not that amazing. Surely not as amazing as Uncharted, LBP, Kz2, GT etc.

[dustgavin]

Yea....I will have to say that the 360 is about maxed out. It is still a cool system, just nowhere near as powerful as the PS3.

[jlemdon]

show me 2 of the same genre games where PS3 truly excels.

u can put Killzone vs Halo up there but that's all you got???

don't get me wrong I tend to think PS3 is slightly stronger but not to the point of it being noticed.

[dustgavin]

Uncharted, MGS4, Ratchet and Clank, etc. etc.

The PS3 was making those games in only it's second year. The 360 couldn't even keep up then.

[alwayzbusi1]

Don't forget GT5p graphicly DESTROYS any racer on 360.

[greatjimbo78]

Where is your proof of that statement, "Nowhere near" you and I know that's just Bull.
It is not quite as powerful, but to say it's nowhere near is just making you look unbalanced.
Tell me! do you dribble a lot and have crazy eyes? because i suspect you do.

[Xbots play games]

Uncharted 2 developers told the mags they already maxed out the cell. Can't wait for those headlines when that game is released.
Karma is B!tch my Fan-botty friends! The 360 is far from maxed..hell it took 4 years to make Killzone 2 and their engine couldn't even handle split screen co-op even with all the suits at Sony spending their weekends making sure the game didnt take 50 years. People throw Gears 2 around like it came out 4 years ago. The game came out 4 MONTHS ago. Remind me four months after K2 drops and the hype bubble completely bursts when the final product drops. And we can make silly blog after blog about how nothing else on the PS3 looks as good. In fact keep showing GOW scripted cutscenes and pretend it's actually coming within the next 3 quarters...

EDIT

Sorry Dusty,

The internet is the 'magical world of denial'. I actually do have fun with the box in reality. Never wanted an HD-DVD from day one. but I hear Blu-Rays are crazy cheap these days. Maybe I'll visit Circuit 'Out of Business' City and get one really cheap. Try again..

[dustgavin]

Have fun in your magical, make-believe, land of denial. I am sure your 360 will be there to support you. You may even get a visit from good ole' HD-dvd add on. Yea!

[Xbots play gamez]

Im sorry i talk sh*t i cant help it.

[randomwiz]

your comment lost me when you thought you can get something at circuit city cheap.

you thinking that they don't have co-op because the engine does not support it is just proving that you're a 10 year old kid.
oh yea... http://n4g.com/dev/News-280...

"The 360 is far from maxed.." just keep saying that to yourself.

By the way... killzone 2 did not take 4 years, it was ready for 2008, but they pushed it back to not conflict with other releases.

Uncharted 2 devs say they maxed out the ps3, but its amazing graphically. Gears of War 2 almost maxed out the 360, and its graphics don't match uncharted 1's.

[Xbots play games]

you thinking that they don't have co-op because the engine does not support it is just proving that you're a 10 year old kid.
oh yea... http://n4g.com/dev/News-280...

LOl..If that proves I'm a 10 year old; then you must be 8.

Thx for linking to the same article that Guerilla tells people that because due to the HARDWARE' they had to balance graphics and making the game run smoothly. Meaning the axed split and are praying to the gods they can add co-op.

I was being generous when I said the engine. According to the developer's OWN mouth the HARDWARE was the limiting factor. Meaning, the PS3 hardware is MAXED out with Killzone 2.

By the way... killzone 2 did not take 4 years, it was ready for 2008, but they pushed it back to not conflict with other releases.

Let's do the math *shows trailer in 2005* So are you saying they showed a gameplay trailer for a game that was developed 2 days before they showed it @ E3? Sorry, you are the one living in a fantasy land.

Uncharted 2 devs say they maxed out the ps3, but its amazing graphically. Gears of War 2 almost maxed out the 360, and its graphics don't match uncharted 1's.

If you really want to compare what it takes to making a great looking single player Tomb Raider clone to what it takes to make a top of the line graphically intense co-op shooter like Gear 1 or 2, then we have absolutely nothing to discuss. I'll just keep pointing at the screen laughing.

[dustgavin]

You are calling Uncharted a Tomb Raider clone? That is reason enough to laugh at yourself.

The 360 has been out a full year longer than the Ps3. Why has it not surpassed or even equaled the PS3 in graphics? It is a simple fact, the 360 is just not powerful enough to keep up with the Playstation 3.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying the 360 is weak. Far from it. But to say that it can compete with Sony's machine is just ridiculous.

[Xbots play games]

Is it something I said? When you compare Uncharted to Gears 1 or 2 it's still laughable. Tomb Raider clone? Yeah it's a jab because if you deny the influence of that game then you are in denial. But even when they describe Uncharted gameplay they say:

Gameplay in Uncharted: Drake's Fortune is a combination of 3D platforming and third-person shooter gameplay elements. Similar to the Prince of Persia and Tomb Raider series,[3] platforming elements allow Nate to jump, swim, grab and move along ledges, climb and swing from ropes, and other acrobatic actions that allow the player to make their way along the ruins in the various areas of the island that Nathan explores

Why is Xbox trying to keep up when its far ahead. When a game is multi-platform, then it's considered inferior. When a game is a PS3 exclusive then magically it can't be done on the 360. Sorry, it doesnt work like that, no matter how hard you try to convince yourselves. Pretend our games don't have good graphics. Pretend Halo and Gears are PS2 level graphics next to Killzone 2. At the end of the day the games will speak for themselves. And from where I'm standing Xbox 360 is doing really really well.

[alwayzbusi1]

RSX 1.1 billion vertices per second (367 million polygons per second) using 8 dedicated vertex pipelines with all 24 pixel pipelines still available for pixel shading.

Xenos 1.5 billion vertices per second (500 million polygons per second) using all 48 unified pipelines for only vertex shading. Leaving 0 pipelines available for pixel shading.

What does this mean? This means in order for Xenos to beat RSX in vertex shading, you must sacrifice basically all of its pixel shading performance, and in order to beat RSX in pixel shading, you must sacrifice basically all of Xenos' vertex shading performance. To find Xenos' true max simultaneous pixel and vertex shading performance, you must split the unified shaders 24 pixel/24 vertex which shows it falls short of RSX's total shader performance numbers. However, Xenos is stronger than RSX as far as AA goes due to the separate 10MB edram chip. This brings the two GPUs closer in total performance but I still give the slight edge to RSX due to sheer power over AA. Keep in mind this is without any help of Cell which explains the huge graphical leap you see in PS3's first party titles that take advantage of Cell+RSX.

[Cajun Chicken]

1.2 - Interesting...
Ages ago, I read of this report in an early 360 magazine; just took me a while to dig the quote out again.

http://www.gamepro.com/arti...

"To sway Microsoft into going with 512MB of RAM, Rein said, "what Tim did was actually send a screenshot of what Gears of War would look like if we only had 256 megs of memory." According to Rein, this screenshot bolstered Microsoft into taking the more expensive route.

Rein goes on to explain the crucial importance of 512MB of RAM in the Xbox 360, stating, "you couldn't do this level of graphics if you had to both write your program and do your graphics in 256 megs. Nothing would really look that HD."

-End quote.

This is why I honestly believe, highest graphics on 360 = Unreal Engine 3 running games, the 360 is pretty much UE3, Epic have already mentioned they maxed out the 360 in terms of using the power without any kind of data compression.

Nothing's proved me wrong yet, although I would LOVE to be proved wrong and get the 360 back on the road and variety of GOOD games that were built ground up for XBOX last gen that weren't built with middleware, because middleware proves nothing.

[bobdog626]

I think the 360 still has more to show this year.(just look at Ninja Blade).It looks like a Movie to me.They said the same thing about the PS2 then came God of War.Just you guy's wait and you will see very soon.(bubbles if im right)

[donalbane]

Has the writer reached the limits of his creativity? Look around n4g... there are already 100 PS3 fanboy articles littering up the joint with opinions dressed up like facts. Just because the author doesn't like the games coming out on the 360 this year doesn't mean that his personal feelings are representative of gamers as a whole. This is amateurish stuff that is best suited for a blog, not a news site.

[bullswar]

Did Xbox 360 reached to its limit ... is it gonna get over ... will xbox 360 become obsolete before its time ... Who the F knows ... damn B$ topics leading no where. One developer says one thing and other says something else ... and then there are those who try to justify Xbox 360 capability by pointing out different articles and stuff with no actual computer or mainstream gaming development knowledge background. Completely BS ... all I have to say there is no way to say if 360 has reached its limit, cause new methods or codes will keep poppin out and there will always be better games then what is available now.

[Power_Of_Flops_]

Actually, it reached its limit the day it was born, with its fantastic 33 % failure rate.

But hey, they still got 'Too Human', 'Banjo' and tons of crappy DLFC. (downloadable flop content)

[XDF]

Nice way to troll. How old are you, 8. Open Zone =====>>>>>>

[Ballistic Jay]

people would stop posting these "Is 360 dead?" or "What will save the PS3?"

[bigbomber]

JUST PS3 IS HARD CORE XBOX360 IS CASUEL U KNOW WII LIKE

[Morituri]

The 360 is probably not maxed out yet, but it is increasingly starting to look that way, at least from what we are actually seeing in the games that have come out. Or perhaps it is not that the 360 is maxed out, it is simply that the PS3 is progressing in leaps and bounds beyond what the XBOX is currently capable of doing. The 360 is supposed to have all the advantages in terms of money, developers and hardware. Every programmer says that the 360 is easier to develop for. The 360 even had a head start in the next generation race. Considering all of these factors I don’t think that gamers are seeing the level of graphical fidelity that should be expected this far into the life spans of the two next-gen systems.

Technical mumbo jumbo aside the 360 is simply not displaying the flashes of brilliance that the PS3 is currently displaying. You can spout specs at me all day. You can quote me numbers on RAM and hard drive space ad nauseum, but in the end you can not yet show me a game on the 360 that surpasses the best that the PS3 has to offer. I won’t mention the games, you are already quite familiar with them.

Before anyone goes off on a f-boy tirade, know this: I do not discount the power of the 360 at all. It is more than capable of producing some amazing graphics. Mass Effect and Gears come to mind from my library. That being said, I do believe that the PS3 is starting to outshine the 360 on a more consistent basis. Unless something changes in the way that games are made for Microsoft’s platform it is more than likely that this gap will continue to widen.

[UltimaEnder]

Big surprise, some no-name website comes out with another article about how the 360 sucks, great original idea!

[Droid Control]

time for a new one...

Strange though, on paper, they look very similar, the 360 and ps3 i mean...

[IaMs12]

This is getting just about as old as the PS3 is dead articles... There is always room for improvement look at the PS2..

[greatjimbo78]

"Did the Xbox 360 Reach its Limit?"

Have I missed something? did all 360s allover the world, die and were buried six feet under? because if no, and I know the answer is no, because mine is still working fine, then why the hell is the author of this article using past tense in the headline?

It Should read, Has the Xbox 360 reached it's limit?

So not only a article made up of utter tripe!, but a complete tube wrote it too.

[Sasanova]

it reached its limit when gears of war was first released...

everything after that will be slight minor tweaks to shine at small places, but overall, it will be the same thing

[Flewid638]

Because seriously. The PS1 was discontinued in 2006....that's 10 years. The PS2 is still selling.....that's 9 years.

Peak or no peak.....there aren't ANY systems on the market right now that are going away any time soon. (Although the Wii I'm not too sure about).

[Cynical-Gamerzus]

Since this Cheap 360Machine is a budget PC clone with outdated ATI chip, it falls to the waste side like the GPU it was based on.We now have Nvidia Cards that are 10x more powerful.
And since Crysis was the bench mark for PC graphics,that old tired Unreal Engine never even caught up to it!
So thats why it was never an issue on 360 if it had the best looking games!!!!
The ATI chip was the only thing 360 had going for it and more ram..
thats it!!!!
THAT is IT!!!RAM ..and a now old GPU..
But ATI is now AMD and is outclassed ,eating Nvidia's dust.
!Should of got a PC card last year!Or PS3 with Cell RSX/Bluray advantage...

DEAL WITH IT cheap bastards!!
you get what you pay for!!!

[Gamer_Z]

maybe it did, maybe it didn't...

[OhMyGandhi]

realistically, sort of.
But as time passes, you'll find that even when the graphics are cranked to the max, as others have stated, optimization really sets in.
For me, a good example was a game like "Black" for the original xbox.

Even now, the game looks damned good.

Microsoft will continue to bring about better tools for games.
But the quality of a game's aesthetics do not amount to great games,
Little Big Planet had a simpler look (although it did look great) and a steller online component.

I believe that the 360 still has a nice life ahead of it, and in no short time will it "retire".

[jontay]

yeah! black was awesome, i played it on PS2 tho!

[jontay]

just another sign of the times when games are judged/compared over graphics! bad times!

[-IronMan-]

360 reached it limit. Name one game better looking then MGS4, Killzone2, Uncharted 2, Gran Turismo 5, etc..

There isnt any on 360.

[2FootYard]

I really don't care if its maxed out or not as long as there are good games to play. And I don't just buy exclusives games so before every Sony fanboy attacks me be aware of that fact.

[randomwiz]

its just maxed out graphically, otherwise... you can't really measure how great a system is when its maxed.

[Morituri]

If you can tell me a time...ever... when games were not judged by their gameplay+graphics, I would really like to know.

[Graphics Whore]

Graphically yeah, gameplay wise, no.

[Stationfan]

What has been shown so far a console with less time on the market has already suprased whats been shown on the 360, even if the 360 does come out with something graphically better than killzone 2,

the ps3 has shown that it will surpass it eventually, Just look at what Naughty Dog was able to do in the ps3 1st year, Now imagine what theyre going to pull off in its 2.5 year or 3 year life cycle.

although Multiplats games are going to be the same on both, Sony has an exclusive for every genre which is going to probably be better than the multiplat, they already have a better Hack and slash game, a better baseball sim, a better racing sim, and pretty soon a better FPS.

[2FootYard]

Is it a fact that those games are better? I personally like Ninja Gaiden better than God of War. I haven't played Killzone 2 but from what I've seen I know I would like any of the Halos better because they aren't realistic and dark. I do think that Gran Turismo is better than Forza though.

[Speedobro]

I hate fanboy crap.

[No Way]

Stupid article.. Of course it hasn't. That's why, if you think about it, the games have continuously looked better since the release of the x360.

Besides, how many games do we have to go through to prove that good graphics do not make a good game?

[air1]

wow!

the sony fans came on strong with this crap story..

i dont get it though, last gen the ps2 was the weakest console even the frikin gamecube had more power. did anyone care? no.. no one cared that gta looked and played better on the xbox.

even if the ps3 has more power does that mean that it will win this gen? fvck no, the ps2 proved that you do not need to have the most powerful console, hell the wii is proving it this gen..

whats funny is that i still read ppl saying the price cut saved the 360. well wtf do you think ppl are saying that the ps3 needs?!

[LFC1EE]

The xbox 360 has entertained me so so much come to think of it so as the ps3 and wii and ds and psp lol.

[Nexy]

It looks like the guy lives in a different imaginary world where the scores of MGS4 (his example) are perfect whereas Xbox games are not. In the wreal world GeoW2 has better score than MGS4.

This was the basic assumption he based his "article" on and if it is so blatantly in disagreement with the FACTS he fails miserably to make any logcal point.

[deadie]

For sure - it wont look much better on the box.

Would be very surprised if ANYTHING on the box can deliver what GG managed to get out of the ps3. (Gfx-wise)

MS needs new hardware - xbox, soon to abandon you - again.

[kelvin22]

I am so happy that some person looking past all the bias of this media has seen that the 360 has maxed out on its capabailities and its gears of war and gears of war 2 are different at all they did not have to really improve besides changing the story line lets face it is gow going to be good enough for a gow 4? I have a 360 and I have seen many of atime when my 360 has stunned me and then i look at the rest of the games and there is nothing that blows me away. 360 is maxed out period otherwise we would not have people saying that it is a easier system to make games for. Also if you read the post on Tekken 6 going to the 360 you will relize that they said that the 360 version will obiviously be scaled down does that not make you think?

[thehitman]

I think the 360 is capable of more but is held back by flaws like using dvd9 etc. Im sure there is more power in the 360 that can bring out better looking games than gears. How much more power is questionable and Im pretty sure that w/e power it can reach is no where close to what the ps3 can do anyways. Since 360 release their best looking game was gears and still is. There is not 1 other game on the 360 that you can say wow like that game does. The ps3 has shown significant improvement throughout each year w/ first party games constantly out doing each other and they are still out doing each other if you look at heavonlysword/uncharted/ut3/mg s4/gow3/kz2/heavyrain and some really other magnificent looking games that all play well. MS needs to step their game up I prefer quality and quantity not just quantity. Stop spending 50mil on dlc on multiplats just to try to outdo your competitors and make some nice IPs that show what you can do if you can do anymore.

[bigjclassic]

Fact: GT5P, MGS4, HS, Uncharted, Ratchet and soon to be released KZ2, look better than anything CURRENTLY RUNNING ON 360.

Now will SC:Conviction or Alan Wake match these games? Well see but, looking at available screens from both I can say no. But GRAPHICS arent everything..

PS2 ruled last gen, Wii rules this gen. What do they have in common?
They are/were the two weakest consoles during their perspective gens.

Another Trivia Question?? What is the highest rated console exclusive this gen? SMG and (while its a pretty Wii game) technically 360/PS3 games looks twice as good as that game.

[Microsoft Xbox 360]

It maxed out in early 2008. You don't ever see beautiful games like the PS3 on the 360. FACT.

[Droid Control]

M$ will release the XBOX 720 in 2010/11...

Just as the PS3 starts to show its REAL power and the sales start to climb close or over that of the 360...

[cyclindk]

Upcoming games are already having to be scaled-back to work on the 360! That new game by id "Rage" is probably going to have poorer textures than its PS3 counterpart because of the 360's hardware limitations

For the unabridged version, bereft of fanboyst "exclusion," see below:\

Upcoming games are already having to be scaled-back to work on the 360!
That new game by id "Rage" is probably going to have poorer textures than its PS3 counterpart because of the 360's hardware limitations.The hardware limitation is disc capacity rather than processing power by the way.

[airforcex]

Games always get better; coders learn new tricks. GPU-wise the 360 is clearly superior to ps3. CPU-wise it's the other way around. The difference is that 360 games started looking good a while ago, while the PS3 is now showing its potential.

[OhMyGandhi]

Morituri.

You do know that judgment is always subjective.
So, what you think looks like a masterpiece, I could say looks like crap.

Although that's typically never the case.

Alan Wake will compete with Uncharted and all of them,
you have my word.