Sony Computer Entertainment Worldwide Studios President Phil Harrison told GameDaily.biz that he has "no regrets whatsoever" about Blu-ray and the PS3 launch and that Sony does not feel any pressure to drop the PS3's price this year.
...or is putting out proverbial fires all this guy does anymore? He's a firefighter, not an executive! It seems like the fire is starting to get out of control on Sony lately. They just can't seem to stay on top of it.
They aren't under any pressure until MS makes a stink with price cuts. Then they will be under pressure. (Except Japan)
"Microsoft's approach I think is far too built around a single game IP, one IP, and they could learn the benefits of a killer catalog rather than a killer application. And having the broad software support in multiple genres, in multiple categories, in multiple age groups is what really propels a platform for the long-term. So I think those are the differences that we see between the platforms. " As of today....about 8 months away from the release of MS's "one IP" (he obviously means Halo 3).... the 360 has a FAR SUPERIOR library to the PS3's. If you compare exclusives, Sony has really lost a lot of leverage from last gen to now; the PS3 simply doesn't have the dev support, because it doesn't have the installed base. Keep talking, Phil...maybe you'll finally reach an audience that's foolish enough to buy what you're sellin'.
I agree with sony's decision on their price, just look at what you get. For $600 you get more than you got with the XBOX 360. Sony: PS3 $600 60 GB HDD compatiability to upgrade to larger hard drive BLU-Ray Optical DVD Drive (Storage medium of 25 GB up to 50 GB) Internet Browser (Doesn't effect the cost but still nice) HDMI Output (sure its not necessary for HD right now, but maybe soon) Swappable OS ( ability to completely customize your operating system) PS3/PS2/PS1 system software backward compatability MS XBOX 360 $499.00 (premium System) 20GB HDD (5GB used for operating system miscellaneous files) Componet Cables for High Definition output Limited Backward Compatability to XBOX software Standard DVD Drive (Option for HD-DVD drive costs $199.00) Why should sony drop the price they built the better system, everyone is quick to jump the gun and hate the new-comer to the ring, but when the games that you desperately want to play come out on that system, you will buy one. Everyone is a fanboy, I am no different, but I am a Game fanboy, I love all systems.
Even though you are spreading lies. It is not 499.99 for the premium. It is 399.99. Plus you forgot it is HD ready out of the box, Which PS3 is not (Only composite cable packed in). No standard Headset packed in like the 360 has. Which leads to over half the people online not having headsets and talking. Yes Blu-Ray is an advantage, but the problem is you are paying for it, you just don't have the option not to even though it is not needed for games. Sure it can hold a CGI heavy RPG on 1 disc but the same game can be done on 360 with 3-4 discs which is fine by me when it saves me 200$ But anyways I disagree with your post, Double check your facts before you make yourself sound stupid again....I said good day sir. Now be gone
It is not $499....it is $399. Not a fan bois, just need to keep facts straight.
Yah! i'm sure somebody will come in here and tell me why ther was two price drops in Japan already!.
Indeed Phil, indeed! You're only making the prices higher nice dude! UK pays too much, Ireland pays too much, Australia pays too much... Plus the whole of Europe get the retarded PS3 version. Talking about an overpriced BetaBluRay player... My god Phil be quiet, just like Ken
Wait a Minute Wait a Minute... Ok ill beleive them when they say they are not intrested in price drops ok ... But PLEase DO NOT start upping the price at least! 790!!!! in Australia! Wow that is sad... I dont like the whole thing Sony is doing right now... at all... Ohh ya and your whole pricing category Devestator....Your hdmi Cable does not come with your ps3 thats another what 40$ unless you get a pathetic brand like Monster then what 100$ PS3/PS2/PS1 Software playback... Wasnt their a news post about how Sony was stopping the BackWards Comp being a Top priority and they were going to do an emulation like the 360??? So guess your in the same boat as us :) Plus if you live in Australia How much is that ??? 790+ HDMI Cable would make it 800+ That does not include any games.... so thats close to a grand before you leave the store... XBOX360 420$ has everything you need in the box plus a vast library of games.. Their is even some platinum Hits which is 25.00 so what 440+ hmm I can really see the DIFF now...Plus Component Cables are ok for High Def I really dont see Mass Complaining about the Componet Cables... Soo goood Job DEvestator of the Weak ... Seems like your INFO is pretty weak to me..
Sony should drop the price of a gaming system if they want to sell a gaming system. And oh they will. But it would be oh so so so wrong for Phil Harrison to say "yeah we'll drop the price soon" because nobody would buy it now would they! They would wait! The more a company says "we won't be dropping price until 2008" the more consoles you are going to sell now at a bigger price. Ha. I think it's amusing you think they would say they were going to drop the price. They will...in 6 years time you'll be able to buy the ps3 for about £100 like the ps2. It'll drop loads.
I agree it would be suicide for Sony to announce a price drop this early on,unless, that is, they have an excuse to do so. I wouldn't be at all surprised if this BC thing is a way for them to introduce a price drop sooner rather than later, but still keep face.I think Sony knows it needs a price drop and this is one possible way they can achieve it.They simply say the price drop is a result of cheaper production costs now they don't have to include all those extra chips.
I was not talking about announcing a price-drop, as they will announce one when there will be one - and that is christmas. But there is no need to say beforehand...yeah we'll probably price cut around this point in time...because that would go against business. If he said - yeah we'll price cut soon then noone would buy it now would they...well only the fans will. Those like me would hold on a bit longer for the price cut. If you say 'no we don't intend to price-cut' then I'm gonna bite the bullet and go and buy one now cause I don't want to wait... That make sense? It's simple business. You don't announce a price-cut until the new price sticker is already on the peice of equipment. Imagine...I have a $4000 HD-TV... I'm going to put it on sale next week for half-price. A customer comes in today to say...oooh I'd like to buy that $4000 HD-TV. Do you say as a member of the company..."well actually next week it's going to be half-price so why don't you wait until then?". Clearly not. Harrison is a clever man.
the price will eventually go down with it..
Confidence or arrogance? You decide.
...I'm going with stupidity. :o
O.k you got my vote.
PS3 sales are on par with current 360 sales (monthly figures), and with upcoming titles like Lair and Motorstorm they'll probably be neck-and-neck with Microsoft in terms of install base figures by next year. I think dropping the price by $100 this holiday season however would be a wise move, just to make sure they take advantage of the system's popularity.
"you realize a year old system is outselling a NEW system that had a fanbase that was five times larger last gen. i mean we are talking 40 million Xbox owners and 200 million ps2 owners and STILL the 360 outsells the ps3. ok now say well the ps3 hasn't launched everywhere yet... ok they still have europe... but if people wont buy it here in america or japan when we have the "good" version what in the world makes anyone think that europe will do any different especially know that they all will be paying more for less. i mean ps3 fan or not that stings no matter how you spin it. ok so now you say well we get motorstorm too as a launch title. ok well tell me this, when has a dirt track racer ever been a system seller? you know that the same game was already launched in japan (minus multiplayer)... and it didn't help there and that is the most SONY loyal place on earth. oh well we got FF and MGS and Lair... ok you got two games that won't be out until 2008 and a game about flying on dragons... again when has a dragon game ever moved systems? NEVER. games that move systems are as follows. RPG's, FPS's, FIGHTERS, and of course GTA games. All of which have already dropped on the 360 and all of which have been as good on the $200 cheaper machine if not better. how is this a winning formula for sony? why do you defend them like they pay your mortgage/rent each month? what are they doing for you that someone else isn't doing better? oh and don't say blu-ray, because if it WAS needed for games the PC market would have picked it up already or at least have PLANS of using it in for games in the near future... but do they? no, thats right NO games other than ps3 games will "NEED" blu-ray none. why you ask? because shipping a game on 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 DVD's is still CHEAPER than 1 blu-ray disk. and you know what DVD is a proven format, every-freaking-body has a drive. ok i'm done now, ps3 fanboys feel free to send negative feedback and take my bubbles for shooting your precious sony all to hell."
PS1's usage of CD-ROM was seen as risky since previous consoles had failed using that format, despite it's growing popularity in PCs. PS2's usage of DVD-ROM rather than a CD-based format like GD-ROM was seen as arrogant, expensive, and poorly planned since the format had been around for years but never picked up steam. PS3...well as soon as it came on the market Blu-ray started outselling HD-DVD on a week-to-week basis instead of the other way around. Now it's almost 3:1, Blu-ray to HD-DVD, with Blu-ray's install base already surpassing that of HD-DVD, despite launching months later. Multiple discs just isn't an option for many game genres such as racing, sports, free-roaming, FPS, etc.
I just thing of ridge racer when i see that ugly head
or is Phil Harrison sounding more like Bagdad Bob? Everything is great with Sony/Bagdad... Couldnt be better...Consumers are gonna love this...Resistance is futile... :/
...that's a perfect comparison!
From someone that is bald that kind of comment is interesting.I guess that Phil was ripping his hair when the ps3 lunch,so the only choice he got was to stay bald.Thats why he said "we are under no pressure to drop PS3's price" knowing he cant do that anymore.
A news post about ps3 and xbox boys don't even care about there own system. there so into the ps3 just go buy one if that all the news you read and cut it down your i did not know your own news was so boring. Your focus is like your company to the hd-dvd not on there game. Yes it is good news a sone you will not have much to say. Stick to your own post on what your system is going to do after blue ray wins the format war it is all over you will have to go buy a new system soon and be spending more after all. TRUTH HURTS SORRY
You do the same crap on sites pertaining to 360 news ya hippocrate......shut it and smoke your corn cob pipe biyatch!
exactly... i wouldn't be talking games if i was phil harrison right now. how can he say they are under no pressure to drop the price when the product isn't selling and the biggest reason for that is that it is too expensive?
foremost Sony's PS3 is a Blu-ray player and a gaming machine secondly. Sony's no longer in the frying pan, their in the burner! ];~)>
starting to pick up for the electronics giant. Sony Pictures is enjoying another banner year (it seems) with Ghost Rider charging out of the gate - Spider Man 3 will be unbelievable. SNE's partnership with Ericcson phones is nothing less than a pure cash cow, and they pretty much have the LCD market wrapped up hands down, despite the great Samsung push. As far as the PS3 in particular, VF5 is a surprise smash, Motrorstorm and Lair are on the way and we all know that KZII, FFXIII and MGS4 will put this system in a very coveted juxtaposition to where it's (SNE) has been for the past ten years. Number one in console sales, number one in games sold.* I really see no reason to lower the price of the PS3 on the showroom floor. As a basic analogy: Chevy Corvettes, Ford 500GT's, Porches, Mercedes', etc. often sell for more than the actual dealers MSRP. (and easily) So, why should a AAA piece of electronics hardware that can do so much more than it's counterparts be any different? I'll admit, if you're looking for less (cost), then that's what you should do and just be satisfied. But if you're not buying a SNE product -- then why or how does this bother you? I beleive despite the naysaying by ruthless haters and handicappers...it's back to biz as usual for the 'ol PS brand. =]
If he said - yeah we'll price cut soon then noone would buy it now would they...well only the fans will. Those like me would hold on a bit longer for the price cut. If you say 'no we don't intend to price-cut' then I'm gonna bite the bullet and go and buy one now cause I don't want to wait... That make sense? It's simple business. You don't announce a price-cut until the new price sticker is already on the peice of equipment. Imagine...I have a $4000 HD-TV... I'm going to put it on sale next week for half-price. A customer comes in today to say...oooh I'd like to buy that $4000 HD-TV. Do you say as a member of the company..."well actually next week it's going to be half-price so why don't you wait until then?". Clearly not. Harrison is a clever man.
Yes I accidentally posted 499 and it should have been 399. I still think that all of the people here that regard the PS3 as a Blu-ray dvd player first and gaming second need to wait and see what is going to happen. If you think back not many people had high hopes for the 360 when it came out, matter of fact people were comparing it to the Dreamcast. The PS3 is just coming into a worldwide install base, so basically its still in the infancy stage, just as was the 360 until it hit with titles such as Dead Rising, Gears of War, Call of Duty 3 and other such titles that started to take advantage of the hardware. To sit here, all of us and bash or berate the other console is just insane. I have the 360 and love it, I have a PS3 and love it, have not gotten the Wii yet but I'm sure it will be the same. All this hate for consoles different from one another started so long ago. i can think back to the argument that was between Sega and nintendo over the whole Mortal Kombat issue with blood, how the die hard fanboys of those systems flamed one another not through the still to be developed internet, but through magazine articles writing into say what they thought was better. To all the sony haters I say this, if you want to try it then try it it may surprise you, then again it may disappoint you. I give the same advice to the 360 Haters. realize this that all systems will have exclusives that can only be played on their respective systems, the only way you'll get the chance to play them is by purchasing those consoles. I do not in my mind think that Halo was that great, Nor was resistance a Gears of War killer. I do believe there will be some great titles on both systems. As for the price drop, realize that Sony is consolidating the interal hardware to avoid losing so much per console on each sale. I forsee a price drop maybe in the holiday season, but possible not until next year. The 360 has a good install base and a wonderful online service, I hope that Sony can pull it together and make their online service something great like Microsoft. Competition is what makes everything better, without competition you get Madden games! LOL
funny phil, most people aren't buying one BECAUSE OF THE PRICE YOU MORON. once again showing how sony execs have lost touch with their fanbase...
Boink boink bonk...and I'll say it again. "If he said - yeah we'll price cut soon then noone would buy it now would they...well only the fans will. Those like me would hold on a bit longer for the price cut. If you say 'no we don't intend to price-cut' then I'm gonna bite the bullet and go and buy one now cause I don't want to wait... That make sense? It's simple business. You don't announce a price-cut until the new price sticker is already on the peice of equipment. Imagine...I have a $4000 HD-TV... I'm going to put it on sale next week for half-price. A customer comes in today to say...oooh I'd like to buy that $4000 HD-TV. Do you say as a member of the company..."well actually next week it's going to be half-price so why don't you wait until then?". Clearly not. Harrison is a clever man."
Deep Brown, I am afraid that we have exactly the same situation here. By saying there will be no fall in price soon, it could mean that something is up. Why then, does Sony feel the need to say so? Microsoft has never talked nearly so much about a fall in price...I went back to check the old articles from last year. The problem here is that Sony has done something that most folks would argue was extremely risky....they placed a consumer mainstream product in a game system which has not yet reached critical mass. But Sony, you gotta love the gutsy play unless you're betting all your money on one format. So, the problem is that you have several dynamics at play (let's look at this carefully): 1) Blu-Ray is a new technology, and it has to be adopted to a critical mass level before it really sells to the mainstream (that means when your mom and dad say that's nice I am thinking I need or want that). Until then, it is a LIABILITY and not a NET BENEFIT to the PS3! I own a PS3, but I haven't purchased a single Blu-Ray. I rent. Why? Sheer economics and I haven't been convinced that HD-DVD or Blu-Ray won't go the way of Laser-disc (flash drive and downloading are both rising technologies). People want to see ubiquitous adoption before they jump over the cliff. If enough folks come back up and don't hit bottom, they will jump in as well...and not a moment before. 2)timmyp53 said this a while back in the post and its true, generally: "once the manufacturing costs goes down the price will eventually go down with it.. " Historically speaking this is generally true with any generally accepted mainstream technology that has undergone a development and commercialization cycle. First, let's debunk the myth DVD players went mainstream as the first PS2 sold. It did NOT! DVD had no competition and was well on its way to being mainstream. I remember owning a DVD player and buying the Matrix as my first disc well before I thought a PS2 was within my budget, and even then, I was disappointed in the DVD performance as time went on. I didn't do the links. There were so many to cross-link...it is was beyond the scope of this publication. If you want to compare....just look at the price histories for each device on any number of sites...pricescan has a good one if my memory serves me well. So, subpoint A) While the PS3 is a Blu-Ray, it is not the best Blu-Ray and future Blu-Ray players will likely make it less desireable as a player. The benefit of Blu-Ray is therefore limited to Sony pushing adoption, then high-capacity games to the extent developers push the envelope (remember this makes the games more expensive...how much more...who knows, but the games won't be cheaper...is there a buyer for such expansive games and content at $75 or $85 or more...but I would think a fully immersive Blu-Ray game of 50 Gigs right now, will be significantly more expensive and Sony won't be eating all those costs...so open your wallets wide!!!), and finally making money through its media division. Subpoint B) What is the true cost structure and marketing plan for Sony right now? No one knows this except Sony. Let's say that Blu-Ray won the format war tomorrow. Will Sony drop the price for PS3. I don't think they would in a million years. Currently, they lose roughly $240 per machine on previous estimates...even less when removing the EE chip (sorry, Europe...you're getting screwed a little). That cost is a loss that they are willing to give up on the idea that the cost will be recuperated in some fashion. In the short-term how??? By ensuring the viability of Blu-Ray, and hopefully, with a very long-term attrition in the cost of Blu-Ray players. You see, (I own a 360 as well), MS is actually doing Sony a favor and slowing down the rate of price reduction for Blu-Ray. If there were truly no competition for the parts between manufacturers, then China already would be developing $100 Blu-Rays faster than you can spit. The development costs borne in large measure by Sony would be instantly realizable (that is unrecoverable as the cost return would need to materialize overnight!!). With the cost of the Blu-Ray drives going super cheap, a price drop would be expected post haste on the PS3...afterall, it is one of the supposed benefits and a primary reason for the units price. MS, no longer the loss-leader can and would match any price Sony throws down...this will happen anyways. In addition, you would have the added situation where Blu-Ray adopters who don't play games (way more out there than gamers in the world....let's face it, this isn't the Wii [everybody can play console] and we're just a small part of the global economy) would purchase other units and not assist unwittingly in helping to subsidize (ding, ding, ding, ding....) you guessed it, the Cell processor development costs....how much would one of those things make a PS3 cost with just a DVD drive anyways?? :-) You see there is a dual dynamic at play, and my description here is merely juvenille in nature to explain some of the forces at work. Subpoint C) Due to combining emerging technologies, the question is how fast will each cost fall in concert with how fast other manufacturers are able to lower the cost of their Blu-Ray units?? In other words, how fast will Sony's price of the CELL / Blu-Ray fall, and how will that compare with a China made Hanspree Blu-Ray (those guys just made and now sell a $500 HDTV 1080i LCD!!!)??? I don't know that. Sony doesn't know that and neither does any other talking head or blogger!!! That is the real deal here. You couldn't know unless you know how your mom or dad will accept the technology a year or two from now. #3 But...Sony has a huge (3 massive units!!!) media side of the house....SCE actually dwarfs the gaming unit....just check the revenues and expenditures. You will then see why they are willing to hedge their bets with Blu-Ray and throw PS3 gamers under the bus when necessary (no B/C for some, no rumble, no full-on effort for online, etc.). It (Media) is their real cash-cow!!! Finally, if you really want to know how PS3's will sell? Ask your mom and dad what they think about Blu-Ray, check the prices of Blu-Ray at discount stores and see what your less fortunate friends think about the prospects of making the plunge. I just checked Walmart, HD-DVD $398 and Blu-Ray $898....this bodes well for PS3 sales for the time being....be very wary if the bottom should suddenly fall out for Blu-Ray players or if the price should stay very high for too long.....what the Fanboi is looking for a gradual and moderate reduction in prices which shall allow Sony to execute a price cut in due time...which I am afraid may not be this Christmas unless MS sales keep pace or Ninetendo (I own a Wii, as well) so badly outsells PS3 that they are losing exclusives at a mile a minute. As an aside, the lowest prices that I can find for next-gen DVD is HD-DVD $299 and Blu-Ray $469.95....this is dangerous territory for Sony.....keep looking at those price trends on pricescan and in the Wall-Street Journal. Me....I am lawyer with plenty of income....I don't lose no matter what. :-) I just buy the game that I like the best on the console that I like to play it. For example, I love the Wii for baseball, golf and basketball....great fun and good exercise. MS is for driving games and flying games....gotta have rumble...without it you don't know how hard you're pushing your equipment. PS3...gotta love the FPS and fighting games. Everything else, and I mean everything else, if you're honest is a toss-up!!! I just happen to be fortunate enough that I don't have to decide. Happy Gaming!!
well written comment. I'll have to ring the bell on your bubbles. I agree with you on many points, especially the great "r&d - production - to market - to bottomline loop" analysis. Yes everyone continues to hone in on the hardware losses per PS3 sold; however the shiny lineup of SNE IP's is not only making the system irresistable to "'ol school" gamers, but also the SNE loyals...some of whom have been completely holding out (still clinging to the love that the PS2 emenates) until the PS3 unleashes hell gamewise. Look, PS has simply been known over the past ten years (if for nothing else) to pump out more titles (& hits) than Motown. Some games are just better on the PS3 than others. RPG's, Flight Sims, Racing Games, Fighting Games, Adventure Games, and the FPS's are starting to really get hot. This endears people to play the PS3 that have owned the PS2 and over time these people will migrate to the next level when it fits there budget, living room w/e. People are not going to overnight, completely change their tastes in games and go to an entirtely new platform. I personally thought that the 360 would have sold considerably more at this stage in the game considering its penetration into the Indian, Spanish and Australian markets where it was heavily lauded, but has still really failed to skyrocket or see steady, upward growth. I know that the games are there and still coming for the 360, but all things considered, the PS3 is looking considerably better at this stage in the game, plus there are no major hadware issues or circle of death stories with the PS3 all over the 'net that owners have to contend with in the midst of all the ballyhooed launch. Yes the Media arm of SNE does present a cash cow with which the co. as a whole can hedge bets on it's own ingenuity with loyalists and ordinary consumers as financiers, but isn't that hallmark of a risk taker? High risk = high reward. It works for me. I take very high risks and enjoy a rewarding income. I think SNE has wisely shifted the playing field by introducing the BD player in the PS3 to help supplant it's partnerships with the major Hollywood movie houses. Yes, it was a gamble, but really good things are difficult to obtain. This is a world where r&d costs are skyrocketeing, new science is not cheap and outsourcing to save your bottom line is the only way you can go if you want your business to survive. SNE had to deliver on the hardware and parts and they have -- They've succedded in creating a beautiful piece of hardware and AAA BD player. Now -- they MUST deliver on the games that made PlayStation -PlayStation. Yes the UK/EU/PAL PS3's are lacking the EE and full BC that the States and Japan recv'd but the system is made to upgrade the firmware seemingly for the life of the console. This can be corrected as it was corrected for me and I can enjoy Marvel vs. Capcom 2 on the Bravia, the way it's supposed to look. -- "what the Fanboi is looking for a gradual and moderate reduction in prices which shall allow Sony to execute a price cut in due time...which I am afraid may not be this Christmas unless MS sales keep pace or Ninetendo (I own a Wii, as well) so badly outsells PS3 that they are losing exclusives at a mile a minute. As an aside, the lowest prices that I can find for next-gen DVD is HD-DVD $299 and Blu-Ray $469.95....this is dangerous territory for Sony.....keep looking at those price trends on pricescan and in the Wall-Street Journal." I have to disagree with you there too b.z. Despite the difference in msrp of each player type stats show that Blu-ray is still outselling HD-dvd in both dept's. regardless of the Price* How do you explain that? Secondly the pace that the wii is selling is already faster than the 360 was at the respective time and the wii will not continue to sell the way it was. Just look at January in Japan. Almost a 50% decrease in overall system sells. MS will not be able to continue to ride the Halo tour bus forever (& I hope they don't - I want comepetiton...ya know anti EA sports) and will eventually have to come out with some very innavative, hardcore, immersive adventure game to wrap in the masses. Only if they want to wrangle more traditional old school gamers. A new shiny console with more memory will not solve this long term issue. I'm not trying to be crude, but there's a reason people are predcting the PS3 to win the console war by 2010. In summation...if people want the PS3 to fail, then they have to root and root for developers not to make any games at all for it. This is the only way it will fail. The hardware is: solid. The future proofing: brilliant. It won't go to the landfill on those merits. No...it will go if massive amounts of games are not produced for it. Like massive amounts of games were pumped out for its predecessors. --"Thus one who is skillful at keeping the enemy on the move maintains deceitful appearances, according to which the enemy will act. He sacrifices something, that the enemy may snatch at it. By holding out baits, he keeps him on the march; then with a body of picked men he lies in wait for him." Sun Tzu (the Art of War)
"I have to disagree with you there too b.z. Despite the difference in msrp of each player type stats show that Blu-ray is still outselling HD-dvd in both dept's. regardless of the Price* How do you explain that?" It is quite simple really to generalize but very difficult to understand and analyze fully. I am not arguing that HD-DVD will be the demise of Blu-Ray or PS3...indeed quite the contrary. All I am saying, (and I think if you guys think carefully about what I am saying) you will agree, at least in theory because it of fundamental economic theory the PS3 is facing some precarious conditions to ensure its viability. In the most basic statement, I would argue that the Supply-Demand curve of the number of PS3 sold and the level of adoption based upon early adopters does not provide the necessary historical precedent where one can declare Sony the winner and say they will win this round. If anything, I believe there will be no winner, because the number of factors aggravating the supply-demand curve also affect directly and indirectly the consumer's decision to buy hard media and machine (factors fully listed below). Further, in no way has the number of players sold reached the point of overwhelming ubiquitousness that lead to the untimely demise of the "Divx" disc which Circuit City touted so heavily....while the ratio is roughly 2.6 to 1 (approx. within reason), those sales are being made to early adopters. This group has not been historically more accurate at selecting the direction in which technology is headed. The examples are myriad and can go either way. More often than not I would venture (only by slight margin) the predictive skills of adoption by the mass consumer are not borne out by those of the early adopter whose spending habits are somewhat at a variance to the average consumer. You see, unlike us....yes, even the one's who say we are too poor to afford a console....average middle-age male with a family is probably making $35,000 to $38,000 (per household) based on latest world rankings of per capita income[from US News & World Report] (certainly that is average and not median....and I know the difference) with a wife and 1.6 kids. That is the middle of America....and that is the demographic that Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo all want to hit. That is where the heart of 300 milllion of the wealthiest people on the whole in the world live. Quite simply, that is there pay-dirt where the oil runs rich and the dollars come easiest. They aren't worried about the rich fat cats like me, the Sony fan (to a degree) or even Japan....what I have just described to you is pay-dirt central. After all some of these very tech companies pay me $275 per hour to do their patent work. So, that known, what are the factors that affect the PS3 in terms of sales, reduction in price, and will necessarily affect the decision of middle America to buy in wholesale. #1- Price a) Price is driven by SNE needing to either stem loses or make a reasonable return. The biggest factors are their component prices. This is why I argue above to watch what the price of Blu-Ray and HD-DVD players and the way they behave. 1. If the price falls too fast, Sony is forced to drop prices too fast and they lose money. 2. If it drops too slowly, Sony is forced to eat crow and wait till component prices fall. 3. Sony is utilizing two entirely different consumer classes to recuperate costs on two technologies...agree...both the Cell and Blu-Ray. In an ideal world, Sony would have full control of the supply thus keeping demand just marginally to the high side where as the price of the Cell and Blu-Ray fell they adjusted prices accordingly and made a nice profit margin....but THEY DO NOT!! 4. The entrance into the market of cheaper Blu-Ray players....Sony just announced they are making cheaper ones today....is going to have an effect on Sony's ability to sell Blu-Ray to non-game players. And if I hear that stupid argument about how great a Blu-Ray player the PS3 is....I will just bust a gut laughing, because it is already yesterday's technology. The players will get lighter, load faster and become more reliable over time just like all consumer technology since the dawn of time (the wheel being the oldest example that I can think of at the moment). :-) 5. Nobody knows what the effect of a $100 Hannspree (Chinese company) brand Blu-Ray will have on PS3 sales. Will Sony be forced to drop their prices in effect conceding that much of the value of the PS3 has been discounted? Will it knock HD-DVD finally out of the market? Will Sony begin adding new features in (more HDMIs, larger HD, etc.) to maintain a higher price and establish a reasonable profit margin? I don't know, Sony doesn't know, and neither does anyone else. Only time will tell what will happen in that respect. And if folks are so confident in that 2010 prediction, then I would expect HDTVs to be flying off the shelf as well....currently though, sales have slowed down. This point can't be overstated because it cannibalizes some of the demand for the PS3 which we know is artificial...how much...nobody truly knows...but it is a factor. Finally, how will Wii and X360 prices respond....only Sony knows what they will do and this is true for Nintendo and MS, as well. #2 - Need A wise business man once said this is the only thing that sells anything....it is need. Not want....but need. There are three types of need. a) Deep compelling emotional need - Everybody else (critical mass) has one on the block b) Future Pain - I want to fit in as well. Or, I am on a railroad track trussel stuck....I'll pay $10,000 for that 100 ft helicopter ride to safety. c) Gain or Advantage - In the airport, you try to sell me a black felt pen for $20. "No way buddy, I can pay $2 for one at Walmart." Bill Gates is about to leave on plane and says "Hey, I've got a $100 mill contract to sign for you. But I only sign with black felt pens." Back to the same guy selling pens, "$200 for black felt pen." Your response, "Sold!!" Those are what drive the normal consumer. And for them, this is a long-term expenditure. Buying a Sega dooms the kid or family to playing that system for a while so such decisions much be made with all due care and deliberation. But typically, they are mostly influenced by that critical mass effect where they can buy within budget, on impulse with the relatively safety of purchasing with the masses. #3 - Compatibility (or better known as- It's just gotta work factor) I don't know about how you guys are getting along, but does anyone have a 120hz 1080P LCD (as talked about on Gizmodo) with HDMI 1.3 inputs on both the TV and their stereo unit. Yeah, that's what I thought. I make a pretty tidy sum at the end of the day, but I'm not willing to fork over the money nor do I have the room to really appreciate 1080P. It is well known that 1080P is only appreciated in double-blind testing when the screen size is at least 50 inches. See: http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/... what-it-seems-179395.php Also see: http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/... Check out those fantastic prices on those units!! I make 155k before bonus and I'm not sure it is worth it yet!! So, what does 1080P do for PS3....not much, if you ask me. If someone actually has a full-on HDTV (I'm talking the real-deal, 50 inch or larger LCD with 120Hz 1080P and their PS3 hooked up through an HDMI 1.3 stereo with good sound system...let me know, I will fly out from Houston to check it out!!) Plus, I also have the sound signal problem every now and again. You know, where the HDMI doesn't handshake right. Usually, it just requires a reset, but it happens way too often for the average consumer....in my opinion. My mom and dad want to be able to turn it on and watch or play the thing....anything less and it ain't ready for prime-time. The point is that to appreciate the full power of the PS3 you need to spend $600 on the unit, another $40 on HDMI, buy three extra controllers (cause everybody will want to play) and at least 5 games, if you're serious about using it as a game machine. Cost:$1180 Next you have to have a 50 inch, 120Hz 1080P....if you're playing with less then why worry about 1080P (might as well say you have Xbox resolution (HDMI/component doesn't matter...it's the signal) [for example, I like Sharp's new 52 inch] Cost:$5200 Finally, kick-ass stereo...we'll just use my home unit to keep costs down, but it's nothing to sneeze at: Onkyo Receiver TX-SR674/S Cost$699 Mordaunt-Short (100 true RMS watts) 10" Subwoofer Cost $499 Mirage Omni-Sat Surrounds (6) + Center channel (1) for 7.1 surround Cost $499 (bought from Ubid on-sale) Stero Cost: $1697 One could get by with less, but without 7.1 then the full lossless HDMI 1,3 would not be utilized. I hope you see what I am getting at. I have a Samsung HP-S5053 which cost roughly $2000, a $1,697 stero and spent $1180 on the PS3. Most folks just don't have a spare $5k sitting around to hope that HDMI 1.3 is all that it is cracked up to be. Although, I will admit that I am jealous of anyone who had the balls to buy a 1080P so early on (I know that I saw that somebody said that they had purchased one....please post a picture.) For the average person, it's just too much uncertainty without the requisite "it's just going to work." I often visit my local electronics store, and I wait until I hear them explain the technology correctly and then I buy.....because then I know it's just going to work. All this is said, in recap, to say that PS3's future is by no means given to being a run-away success. I haven't even mentioned the effect of being able to perform HD movie downloads on-demand. I know they are testing the system here for Time Warner in Houston as I have several friends in the tech industry and some who work as installers and troubleshooters for cable networks. They can't tell me when but they do confirm that it is no longer a question of if it is possible. Far from certain, much as last time, the system with the best specs does not always win...much as the system with the worst specs might not lose. If I had to venture a $100 wager, and I'll take only the first person to get back to me....I would say the factors indicate a tie is very likely in terms of console adoption. Three nice consoles fit nicely to three different types (Really sub-segments...didn't get into that here...not enough time or space) of places within the market. Remember that while the whole market is the world...the American consumer is pay-dirt!! We consume more than most and its how businesses are generally made or lost...by catering to us right here in the good ol' U.S. of A. Game-On. As a side note, I have all three systems and this was meant to be an intelligent discourse into the economic factors at play on a basic level. More complex analysis would really be required to make any conclusion. To that end, I am highly skeptical of any and all claims made by those given without the requisite study and care of performing unbiased market analysis to relay the various cause and effect factors which necessarily affect mainstream consumers interaction with the supply and demand curve as applied to the technology at the time. One final note: See: http://seattlepi.nwsource.c... As they said in Hustle and Flow, it's hard out here for a pimp (Sony), DVD payers are seen as a commodity and people will buy them when the Chinese sell them for $50 at Wal-mart. I predict a huge price fall into the $150s by next Christmas.
Sorry but I didn't get through all of your post. I will soon. Agree mostly, but just wanted to say that in the UK Sony would be making a profit on every ps3 sold, even if very small. And that's on original estimations. With optimsation of parts they will be making a significant profit on every unit. I think you guys in the US and the rest of the world have a pretty sweet deal. I think I bought the ps2 for £350.
I'd never even though about that Deep Brown. Everyone know Sony lose money on each machine, about $200 was a recent guess (although that could be less now with the cost cutting going on), but when they sell them in Europe on in Australia that might not be so true. PS3 is $AU1000 which is about $US750 at the moment I think (havent check my exchange rates lately.) We are used to paying more just like you and usually I think we pay the most, but you beat us this time. Its also cool the 1st party games are going to be the same price as the last gen titles. $AU100
As a military man, I recall my days in Europe fondly. I also remember that horrendous VAT tax....somewhere around 20% these days...I haven't lived there since 2000, so they might have gotten rid of it. Let's talk apples to apples here. I paid almost 9% tax on that $599 Xbox here in Houston. Plus tax on the games, extra controllers, and HDMI cable. But, unlike Europe the price shown is NOT the price paid here in the U.S. Tax is added at the time of sale. In Europe, I recall paying the price as posted which already included the tax. Am I wrong or have they changed the way they do business...(I was in Frankfurt in January and they still did business this way...not sure about UK- been too long)??? By my estimation, a fully loaded PS3 in the U.S. costs a person from Houston - $654. And of course, that can vary from state to state, and county to county as we have many different tax rates in the U.S. plus factors such as having or not (as in Texas) having State Income tax and the rate we pay in property taxes. So take out the VAT tax and other taxes in Europe and what do you get after adding in reasonable adjustments for different shipping distances (you don't expect to get shipping for free--Gas prices are up!! :-). I would suspect that the price with necessary permutations for various taxes, shipping and any customs charges are at their core pretty close....plus a reasonable cushion for currency volatility on the basis of comparing your country's currency to the Yen. Head starting to hurt....mine is. This stuff isn't easy. :-)
I live in the UK and i'm annoyed at Sony, one for putting in Blu-Ray, two for making us wait longer, three for giving us limited BC compared to US and Japan and four for making us pay a higher price. I feel ripped off by Sony, £425 is like $800, but there will always be idiots who pay for overpriced products.
you're rebuttal in post #27.1 was brilliant. I was skip-doo-da-dooling until I got to: --"As a side note, I have all three systems and this was meant to be an intelligent discourse into the economic factors at play on a basic level. More complex analysis would really be required to make any conclusion. To that end, I am highly skeptical of any and all claims made by those given without the requisite study and care of performing unbiased market analysis to relay the various cause and effect factors which necessarily affect mainstream consumers interaction with the supply and demand curve as applied to the technology at the time." True bombzombie, no one is goint to be able to accurately predict the absolute rock soilid outcome of the PS3's success, mediocrity, or complete failure in the next 5 years. Not even Roger Riney has that kind of insight and I don;t beleive anyone with half a brain on N4G is serious about predicting such. No one can predict future market conditions(down to one/ for one specific product), consumer confidence and attitude changes toward a specific product don't happen in a vacuum. I know that certain conditions if aligned correctly could sway the PS3 into real danngerous waters if they ALL came to pass, but intelligence would lend one to think not. For all of the market conditons to go wrong for SNE -- many more are going right. BZ you stated yourself that SNE is a three headed monster and can enjoy somewhat of a Phyrric victory with the PS3 (this round) becaus the coffers are stacked full from the Media / Laptop/Desktop/Camer/Phones/LC D's side of the company. True SNE would not want to rely on those arms to stay afloat with the PS3, but this is all part of taking a high risk (albeit calcualated)for a great reward which is a western principle that works if one is prepared for the opportunity. SNE is prepard for the opportunity and is taking advantage of it right now with a very well designed machine -- and one that WORKS! Yes, you state that Hanspree could introduce a cheaper BD player on the market, but @ what cost to me and the discerning audio / videophile that wants the "best"? We all know that when you go cheaper overall cost, one is getting solid state as well as mechanical parts which are usually made in a substandard manner, by substandard working creeds and assembled with VOLUME in mind not Quality. If I want a turbo timer that works on my 2006 King Ranch, I could spend bottom dolla and just go down to Auto Zone or O'Reilly and pick up some Mexican made timer that will do the job no doubt, but will lack the overall structural integrity, engineering, and lifespan of one purchased at the Motrosport Authority Exchange or Blubonnet Ford. Theres just no comparison. So yes, the Hanspree model would definitely be cheaper and it's introduction into the marklet would greatly affect the pricepoints that the PS3 and BDPS-1 now enjoy (and the masses that don't care or know any better will eat it up), but discerning electronics consumers like myself won't fall for such cheap "no-name" trash. Besides whose to say that SNE or Toppan for that matter won't enjoy some of the royalties from this Chinese manufacturere for the distribution of a technology homegrown by the two from the ground-up? I'm really not sure about that to be honest. I know you think that SNE's dominance in the LCD market is fleeting and the co. may start to add incentives in order to justify it's sell price and and market position, but again this is all specualtion and not indicative of what's happening right now. My friend works at the most prestigious high-end electronics shop in the U.S. located in beautiful San Antonio, TX. The rooms, techniques and control boards and acoustical treatments were designed by some guy name Thomas Holdman (THX anyone?) My buddy sold the most SNE flat screen LCD's that he ever has last year and his Pioneer eleites were in a distant second, with Samsung coming in third. Since you are in the know -- I don't have to tell you that the Pioneer Elite (Plasma) comes in @ approximately $6 - 8,ooo depending on your connection to the seller. I also don't have to tell you that SNE's technology in this arena is not only exceeding it's much higher priced counterparts, but shames the competitiors with thingls like Tri-luminous technolgy -- which can best be described as an NFL sized jumbotron slimmed down to a 70" humdinger that looks like you could fall into it if standing too close. This makes and keeps SNE at the front of the discerning electronics consumer's mind, entiendes? People wil shop at the AutoZones of the world, but the quality, retention and strong customer service keeps Chevy, Ford, and Toyota on top. In closing bz -- I'' say that I make 155k in three months, sometimes four if things are a little slow, but I have a decent amount of overhead and expenditures, so things tend to even themselves out over the course of a year. If I may quote Patrick Ewing here, "We make a lot, but we spend a lot too...". I simply bring this up because of the components and other stereo equipment you have lined out in your home. I too run on high end equipment and will soon be purchasing a set of B&W speakers and replacing McIntosh standalones with integrated amps and drivers for each set of speaker stands in my house. I wish 1.3 was the standard right now (available ubiquitously) and that all channels wer broadcast in Hi-def. My amps and speakers cost out at nearly $7,500 and that's not even including the stands nor monster cable, nor the warranties! I will challenge you to come to my waterside villa here in the beautiful TX Hill Country to experience the best my friend. Or just check some of my photos and videos on N4G. =] All in all I tend to believe that most anti-SNE folks are taking a sky is falling position to the PlayStation 3 (because it's so much easier than rationale and analysis of real facts) rather than looking at all of the dynamics, history, and other majors (vested companies) involved -- to fully realize and appreciate what a wonderful machine it really is. The heart of the PS3, designed in Austin by people who know a thing or two about making things BIG and fast, the design continus a trend with PS which is to be a maverick, bold and different. Just like the PS1, just like the PS2, and Texas. The Hardware certainly is bulletproof and I know that. I have a good ex-Navy friend who lives in Westlake Hills in Austin and now works for IBM. He was privy to some of the CELL BBE development and theoretical discussions. He tells me that the CELL is one of the most powerful chips on the planet at the moment and will only get better and will see applications in some of our advanced war systems. Sure it will eventually be outdone, eventually by the quantum chip (allegedly) whenever it's full uses can be realized, but the CELL is now and in my living room. I have faith (almost a personal connetion) and a strong reason to believe it will succeed. That's all. Now get out there and game!
N4G is a community of gamers posting and discussing the latest game news. It’s part of NewsBoiler, a network of social news sites covering today’s pop culture.