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Ask the Dev: Killzone 2 and 1080p

Seb Downie of GG explains: "Ok, this is the deal: If Killzone 2 detects a TV that is set to 1080p or 1080i and cannot switch to 720p (our preferred resolution, for if your TV supports it), then it will render in 960x1080 and horizontally scale that to 1080i/p.

The advantage of doing this (over rendering 720p and then upscaling it to 1080i/p) is that you don't have *any* vertical scaling, and analog TV's don't even have a horizontal resolution. The result is a much clearer picture with much less artifacts for those who have a 1080i/p only set.

Killzone's adviced resolution is 720p, we just made sure that if you have a 1080i/p only set, it looks much better than the 'naive' implementation of upscaling 720p"

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Fishy Fingers3158d ago

Old news. Also for those unaware, 720p will give better results than 1080i even on a 1080p TV.

Kleptic3158d ago

yeah...considering that there is zero scaling whatsoever...other than what your television will do to a 720p image to make it 'fill up' your entire screen...its the ideal way to view the game...

olivia3158d ago

thank god i was afraid it wouldn't upscale since my set is only 1080p sweet can't wait.

phosphor1123158d ago

You are thinking of HD Channels, those output at 720p, thats why on a 1080i/p tv, they look pretty crappy, but if you were to play a 1080 native game (i.e. most PSN games) they will give you a nice sharp picture, while if you were playing Gears 2 or MGS 4 on a 1080i/p, there is some things lacking due to the upscaling(or the lack there of).

showmethegames3158d ago

if u have an old 55" HDTV that only does 1080i. i'm very happy about this news but i gotta get me a new hdtv pronto............ this bad economy is whats holding me off

andyo133158d ago

quite a big difference actually

the facts:
720p: just under 1 million pixels
1080 i: just over 1 million pixels
1080 p: over 2 million pixels

although looking at that 1080 i does have more pixels. How ever it flickers alot and gives a less solid image as only half of the screen is rendered, the other half is black

IcarusOne3158d ago

Why isn't Sony's powerhouse, flagship, saviour-of-mankind, chart-topping blockbuster rendered in 1080p?

TheExecutive3158d ago

those pixels, however, can only do as good as the source provides. If you upscale a 720p picture to 1080p it doesnt populate 1 million new pixels, it simply cant render brand new pixels. If the game is meant to play in 720p then the people who have a choice should play it in 720p.

However, this is great news for people who only have 1080i TV's. That is the only reason for it to upscale. If you have a choice between 720p and 1080i OR 1080p stick to the NATIVE 720p. Your TV simply wont make pixels appear out of thin air.

TheExecutive3158d ago

Icarus One...

What are you trying to say? That they should all play like crazy ken promised? Who really cares? Its by far the best looking console game to ever exist. Period. end of story. There is absolutely no NEED for the trolling. Show me a better looking console game ever produced and you can bring up false promises by an ex-sony executive. Until then sit there in silence.

solidt123157d ago

I noticed that most games look better at 720p on the PS3 and Xbox 360. They optimize most games to look there best at this resolution.

IcarusOne3157d ago (Edited 3157d ago )

For Sony to claim that the PS3 is the end-all be-all of HD gaming and media (which they and you have since before launch), it'd be nice to see it support the current peak of home theater HD, which is 1080p. With the exception of MGS4, every must-have title from PS3 has stopped at 720p. Argue the symantics of which looks better all you like, but this doesn't seem like a powerhouse to me.

If sensible questions are now considered "trolling", god help us all. (And who the eff is crazy ken? Crawl out from your Sony hole once in while.)

+ Show (7) more repliesLast reply 3157d ago
majorsuave3158d ago

Does this resolution makes it a half HD title?

960 by 1080 is half the pixels of HD 1920 x 1080.

On the other hand, it would've been unbelievable that someone managed to render this level of graphic quality at HD res on a glorified GeForce 7600GT (the RSX GPU inside the PS3).

Fishy Fingers3158d ago (Edited 3158d ago )

Actually it was based on the Nvidia NV47 Chip (7800).

Gue13158d ago

The native res of the game is 1280x720p, the other res is a quick fix for those that have 1080i or 1080p displays that don't output 720p.

Darkseider3158d ago

Huh? Maybe it's just me but I have never seen a set that can display 1080i or 1080p and NOT display 720p.

Satanas3158d ago

Older HDTVs exist which can only do 1080i and not 720p.

However I've never seen a 1080p set that does not do 720p.

720p is the best resolution for this game. I'm glad to see they changed the resolution for 1080 upscaling, but it is still best to play in 720p. All this article is saying is that you won't notice the awkward scaling many other games give when forced into 1080p mode (upscaling from odd resolutions).

Ju3158d ago (Edited 3158d ago )

I'd like the option to choose between 1080 or 720. Even scaled, 960x1080 carries about 100k pixels more info then 720p. Don't know why they insist on 720 (if available). Its just a personal preference, I think. Some games do 1080 even if 720 is on (like MGS4) and it looks fantastic.

DJ3158d ago

And those GPUs were certainly no slouch. Most PC GPU cards have only 30% of their power utilized by current games. The lighting is rendered on two different render engines for Killzone 2: one on an SPU (deferred pass), and one on RSX (forward pass).

Kleptic3158d ago (Edited 3158d ago )

the first set of HDTV's released back around 10 years ago where all 1080i for the most part...no 1080p...no 720p...just 1080i, 480p, and 480i...720p is sometimes called ED, as 'enhanced definition'...and as it stands with newer TV's, they actually only produce 'p' images now...as no current HDTV's support less than 60hz framerates...most newer sets are now up to 120hz...so basically...newer HDTV's are SD, 720p, and 1080p only...but will do what they need to in order to display interlaced video sources (be it 3:2 pulldown, frame doubling, etc.)

there are still some issues with some early ps3 games and the way the PS3 renders the games for different displays...most launch titles where rendered at only 720p...and people with older HDTV's that did not support 720p, where forced to view the game at 480p...the PS3, to my understanding, does not have a dedicated hardware scaler, which the 360 does...but the OS and development kits support an easy to use software scaler that is processed by the CPU of the PS3...it was just that most early games where rushed...and didn't utilize that...

this answer from Seb was addressing exactly that...letting people know not to worry; if they only have a 1080i set...I am not sure why anyone would be worried...as iirc FEAR (a horrendous port entirely) was the last PS3 game to have this issue, since then everything has been addressed...and all newer games support upscaling to 1080i if you need it...Fear, by the way, was released in March of 2007 i think...
EDIT:...the RSX is based on a 7800 like mentioned...but official specs have never been confirmed by Sony, as part of Nvidia's control on the design...its ALL speculation...but some stuff is known...

one thing to keep in mind though...Sony has pushed since day 1 that the Cell and RSX need to be used together...using the RSX entirely on its own...with the Cell simply feeding it instructions (a more familiar 360/PC like game code) results in it being outperformed by the the 360's GPU in most cases...not by much...but this is the number 1 reason that so many multiplat games are similar between the two consoles...as the GPU's of each system are relatively close...both with a few pros and cons over the other...

however...take Killzone 2 for example...in the tech interview that went up two weeks ago...the director stated that the Cell CPU of the PS3 can be rendering up to 40% of the game at times, usually when things start to get really intense...thats 40% of what you see on screen being rendered by the CPU of the PS3...not the GPU...that is unheard of with more traditional game code and standard '360 like' CPUs...this is clearly an illustration of where things can go with the PS3...as major portions of the development budget for this game where to pioneer engines that take advantage of the fact that the GPU has a major asset in the CPU's SPEs...that can basically do 40% more 'stuff' at once than it could on its own...

and there is no denying how this is most likely the main reason killzone 2 makes a major step forward in console graphics...

Ju3158d ago

FYI: The PS3 has a HW scaler. But it can only scale "lines" (horizontal resolution with a couple of fixed line lengths). For example, it can scale 960 pix to 1920 (x2 multiplier).

Using a 960x1080 buffer results in effort less (and distortion free) scaling from 960x1080 to 1920x1080 (ever horizontal pixel actually gets multiplied and displayed twice, while all 1080 lines are perfectly fine).

Now, this gives you the impression of a lower physical line res (960 vs. 1280, especially if no filters are applied, 25% less details horizontally), but it also gives you real 1080 lines instead of just 720 stretched (50% more info here). Over all a 960x1080 image contains about 1.04MPix vs a 0.92MPix for 1280x720. It contains more information and thus show a little bit more detail (even if rendered with an odd aspect ration, which you actually won't see on the screen).

BTW: 1280x720 scaled to 1080p does not (!) improve the image at all.

princejb1343158d ago

now everyone wanna play i am a develepor that knows what they talking about

Sehlat3157d ago

FEAR was not the last title to have lack of scaling support for 1080. There are many current titles that have been release for the PS3 which still fail to support 1080 resolutions. Off the top of my head "Little Big Planet" and "MotorStorm: Pacific Rift" where released with absolutely no 1080 support.

TheUsedVersion3157d ago

I believe you have it wrong. 480P is referred to as ED. I've never heard of 720P being referred to as anything but HD.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

+ Show (8) more repliesLast reply 3157d ago
Funky Town_TX3158d ago

Now I'm set 1080p,720p,1080i I'm set. Just need a PS3 now.

iHEARTboobs3158d ago

surround sound! Makes a big difference.

bee24273158d ago

a 1080p tv, surround sound, and some buttkickers in your recliners is the ultimate ps3 experience ... along with mgs4's cutscenes, u'll never leave ure house

thor3158d ago

Yes this is old news.

I knew about this from the original ask the dev thread.

The only reason he claimed native 1080i was because he's not a technical guy - but when he asked the tech. guy he said that they render in a lower resolution than 1920x1080 and then upscale to 1080p - which is exactly what this says.

Hellsvacancy3158d ago

Man it sucks coz i havnt got a HDTV i spend pretty much all my wages on pot

It wont b that bad ive got a 42 flat (wide) screen tv with a big fu<k surround sound system

But man oh man i wanna HDTV - i think ive just realised the errors of my way