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Red Faction Maxes out Xbox 360 - Volition turn to Xbox 720

In an interview with Gameplayer regarding Red Faction: Guerrilla, producer Rick White claims that they have maxed out the power of the Xbox 360 and have already starting looking towards the Xbox 720 for their next projects. Full interview through the link.

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gameplayer.com.au
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BRACHATTACK3268d ago

And this game doesn't even look that great IMO.

I'm sure they haven't even covered 60% of the ps3's power.

NewZealander3268d ago

big claims, but considering ive seen better looking games then this allready it just looks like another case of a dev trying all too hard to make there game sound like the best thing ever.

Sucks2BU3268d ago

he does say they had to downgrade the graphics to make the destruction work smoothly. I bet they could refine that over time!

Carbide73268d ago (Edited 3268d ago )

"Gameplayer: So you’re saying that RFG is pushing the hardware as far as it can go? Squeezing every drop of juice out of the Xbox 360?
Rick White: Yeah, we’ve got it to the point where we can’t even put an extra vehicle into a world, because it’ll blow the memory. Every little change we make we have to be hyper-critical about it because it could just bring the whole system down. We evaluate every little change in the game, and then we run our tools on it to make sure it isn’t going to break the game and then we move forward, so it really is about pushing the engine as far as we can, and pushing the hardware as far as we can, and then looking at what is the next set of hardware that’s going to come out. Where can we take it then? You know we’re already thinking about if we had XYZ X number of years from now, what would we do with our engine?"

The 360 is basically average PC hardware of today, developers know a lot about it, and they can be sure when they've pushed it, but with the PS3, it's new stuff, they're discovering new ways to use that incredible "number crunching" ability and utilize that for graphics/ physics etc.

MNicholas3268d ago

He says

"We’re pushing so many polys with the destruction system it’s not going to look like your Gears of War 2. Part of what we’ve had to do over the past four years is not only come up with this tech – which we’re calling the Red Engine - but figure out the perfect balance."

This is what's been said for ages by anyone who understand how unified shaders (the 360's GPU's design) work. The more polys you have the lower your pixel pushing ability. It's always a trade-off.

The PS3's strength is that it has atleast as much pixel shader performance as the 360 when running a game with a very light polygon load. However as your polygon load increases, the 360's pixel shader capacity decreases (because it uses the same hardware component for pixel and vertex operations) while the PS3's shader capacity remains unaffected.

Now, having said that, increasing polygon count can cause problems for RSX in other ways. Luckily, there's a little something called the Cell which can outperform RSX in pixel or vertex shader operations by itself. The Cell can kick the polygon count into the stratosphere, cull unused polys (so RSX doesnt have to shader hidden pixels) and you have graphics that are not only more complex in terms of polygons, lighting and textures but also resolution and frame-rate.

GT5 Prologue vs PGR4

Number of cars: 16 vs 8
Polygons per car: 200,000 vs 100,000
Resolution: 1.38M Pixels per frame vs 0.92M pixels per frame
Frame-rate: 60fps vs 30fps

What you're seeing is a massive difference in performance that's not just obvious when viewed on a 60" 1080P TV but even on tiny low-res web-videos. The photorealism of GT5 Prologue is obvious at any resolution.

gamesmaster3268d ago

very informative, i think we can see developers really getting to grips with the technology. the further into this architectures life cycle the better it will get. this is a good time for gaming.

StephanieBBB3268d ago

So I can see where this guy is coming from. But graphically it's far from "09 standard".

Sergeant Osiris3268d ago

great to see someone else on here with some knowledge. This is the kind of stuff the fanboys hate because they are completely out of their element. Those in the know, KNOW the 360 can't touch the PS3. It's just silly to see trolls trying to mislead the uneducated.

patterson3268d ago

That was a good read.
Very interesting.

Bubbles for you.

meepmoopmeep3268d ago

wow, good informative read, mate

+1

mikeslemonade3268d ago

360 is already maxed out since Gears 2. Epic knows the 360 better than anyone else. The Red Faction developer is 3rd party.

meepmoopmeep3268d ago

well, Epic knows best for UE3
and technically, they're 3rd party.

that's why no one can get to Gears quality besides the makers themselves using that engine.

solidsnakus3268d ago (Edited 3268d ago )

lol volitions saints row 2 has piss poor graphics. dont blame the hardware cause other devs have alot better looking games.

phosphor1123268d ago (Edited 3268d ago )

You'd think it would take a lot of horsepower. That's kind of sad that he is saying it's pushing the 360 to its limits.

@MNicholas
Great to see that someone else at least knows something about technology. I didn't know many games used culling though.

Elven63268d ago

Isn't that another way of him saying they used the ram to it's limits? Add more to the processor and the frame rate drops, add more then your ram can handle and your program fails.

Sarcasm3268d ago

Ah my god, after reading MNicholas there is hope for N4G afterall. Good post, everybody give the guy as many bubbles as possible.

3268d ago
LinuxGuru3268d ago (Edited 3268d ago )

Hey Lord Vader - ignoramus - yeah, you.

Killzone 2 and Uncharted 1 and 2 (you know....pretty much some of the best, if not THE best looking games this generation) have no install. Now shut up and go away.

Rhoic3268d ago

Lol.. this guy is full of it.. Far Cry 2 beats this game in graphics (definitely) and (probably) physics.. My friends are playing it right now, and it's one of the nicest games ever created.

Also, EPIC never stated that they maxed out the 360's capabilities. They even stated that they could do nicer stuff than Gears on the 360. But I guess a fanboy would say something like that, especially when a game like Alan Wake looks nicer than Gears of War 2, and hasn't even come out yet. But no, totally! They totally maxed out the 360 (sarcasm).

plain rice3268d ago (Edited 3268d ago )

Lord Vader, you are very, very misinformed. Streaming data off the hard drive will NOT, I repeat WILL NOT IMPROVE graphics. LOL. The only benefits to installing/loading off a hard drive is to minimize texture pop-ins and to decrease load times.

So what your trying to say is that loading data faster off the hdd will push more polygsons on the screen, have better lighting, better textures, etc.....? LOL
-----------

"So when is the PS3 going to "Max out" = when it can run a AAA graphics game WITHOUT streaming off the HDD ?!? "

Why are you calling other people fanboys, when that right there is the very typical ignorant fanboyish comment? Please dude, don't be a hypocrite.

3268d ago
LinuxGuru3268d ago (Edited 3268d ago )

Dear god RHOIC, stfu. Far Cry 2 does not even begin to touch the physics in Red Faction. Sorry. It can't. Not at all, don't even bother trying to defend that, just watch this video, and then shut the hell up.

Edit:

Go to the open zone POG, for crying out loud GO TO THE OPEN ZONE-------------------------- -->>>>

LinuxGuru3268d ago (Edited 3268d ago )

And then watch this video and shut the hell up even more:

Then this one too:

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

power of Green 3268d ago (Edited 3268d ago )

Didn't mean to make you guys mad just wanted to show *MNicholas* Praising PS3 is overrated.

Just wanted to show him the game he is boasting PS3's supposed might with, looks like it has plastic toy cars with virtually no complex prossessing in the back ground or on the surface on objects in comparison to a game on a supposed inferior platform, despite the 360 whooping PS3's ass in every comparison.

I'm sure if devs spent more than half an decade(give or take) on games for the 360 they would blow PS3 titles out of the water.

The sad thing is all this dancing around is going to come back and bite PS3 fans in the ass. I fear the reason they only mentioned the 360 version is because the 360 is their primary platform/fanbase and is the best version to boast and they're comfirming support at the same time. Remember Devs know 360 fans in large don't react like PS3 fans when it comes to what is said about their platform good/bad.

mynd3268d ago

@ Mnicholas. The Cell cant help out with pixel shading at all, only vertex massaging,. The PS3 has a very fixed VS and PS horsepower this is true. But you supposition that as polygon count increase pixel shader power decreases is wrong.
You still put through the same amount of data each triangle, you just doing more triangles.

The only way you VS shader can chew through more horsepower and thus take away form the Pixel shader is if the the vertex shader does more ops than usual.
i.e. You vertex shader is suddenyl doing twice the amount of ops on the vertex, for some weird reason.

Same goes with the pixel shader, if you do some really complex math sin you pixel shader, you use more ops.

i.e. 4 ops for the VS, 16 ops for PS=20 ops per polygon.

Doesn't matter how may polygons you put through, it's still a total of 20 ops.

So. Your completely and utterly wrong.
Nice try.

thereapersson3268d ago

Quit spamming that link in every article GT:5 is mentioned. You're being reported as such.

lowcarb3268d ago

Since the PS3 uses much more integer and less general purpose than the 360 I can easily see it being the console with much better physics. This type of game just works better on PS3 and if they wanted to really to do something with 360 then they would try something different. It makes know since at all for a developer to come out and make a huge claim like this even if true.

thereapersson3268d ago

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. There is insurmountable evidence from many different sources that the CELL is a number-crunching, physics-calculating monster. Games like Killzone 2 and Little Big Planet (among others) display powerful physics-based interaction, Little Big Planet especially. That game is like one big, dynamic, customizable physics simulation.

Doppy3268d ago

Graphics don't peak out a consoles. It's the whole package of physics, scales, graphics, environments, etc... Graphics is only a small part of peaking a system.

ravinash3267d ago (Edited 3267d ago )

"Devs know 360 fans in large don't react like PS3 fans when it comes to what is said about their platform good/bad"

Your kidding right!!!

No, they just openly go out and attack the PS3 like you do every chance you get.

eagle213267d ago

Blu-ray and CELL all day and forever!

soxfan20053267d ago

The GT5 vs. Project Gotham Racing 4 comparison in 1.4 is good, except that GT5 does not exist yet, except in demo form. PGR4 has already been available for over a year now. By the time GT5 does get released, PGR4 will be over 2 years older. PGR5 may even be on the market by then. This is like comparing Gears of War 2 vs. Mobile Suit Gundam. Wait until GT5 is released, then compare it to the latest 360 racer, either Forza 3 of PGR5.

Blitzed3267d ago

You should think before you type-

"I'm sure if devs spent more than half an decade(give or take) on games for the 360 they would blow PS3 titles out of the water."

Too Human says hi.

MNicholas3267d ago (Edited 3267d ago )

I would recommend reading about the fundamental laws of physics (such as conservation of energy) as well as how unified Unified Shader Architecture works before we continue this discussion.

@ Soxfan, GT5 Prologue has been out for some time now and it's a perfectly valid comparison.

I_am_rushin3267d ago

MNicholas copied his statement from a guy on Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/tag/v...

MNicholas3267d ago

Might want to check the time stamp on the posts first.

MUNKYPOO3267d ago

lol thats funny. guess your famous now

The Lazy One3267d ago

kudos

@ mNicholas

Why not prove him wrong then? Or are you just going to leave it with the "I'll pretend I'm smarter than you and not dignify your argument with a response in an effort to look like I'm not wrong."

Rhoic3267d ago

Here's the thing.. I was aware maxing out meant MAXING OUT. Graphics, Psychics, CPU usage, GPU Usage etc. Not just one thing.. "Oh we maxed out the capabilities of the CPU for the 360." Great! Good for you. Now how's about you max out the Xenos GPU that can perform 500 million triangles?

emitsomla3264d ago

I am not saying this as an insult, but I am saying this because you guys failed to do your research! VOLITION maxed out on the PS3 long before they maxed out on the 360. In fact, they were able to do a bit more on the 360 because it has more memory than the ps3. More can be done on the 360. Every time I come on here I see sony fanboys putting their foot in there mouths, because they are blind and ignorant, believing the hype that their system defies logic and is somehow more capable to produce more than what it's hardware will allow! (the ps3 has a weaker graphics card and 256 less main memory than the 360) open your eye's, refuse the sony cult... you guys are irrational, borderline crazy...

+ Show (36) more repliesLast reply 3264d ago
gamesmaster3268d ago (Edited 3268d ago )

exactly, 360 is known territory, max it out in no time. ps3 on the other hand its more unknown i think at least a year off maxing out, but its about the engines and the devs, i'm sure 360 will have more great looking titles to come. but i can see the ps3 pushing past.. killzone, uncharted 2, mgs4 gt5p we know theres more to come.

edhe3268d ago

Sigh.

Can't we all just get along and actually look at the technicalities of such things?

It should be interesting to see this year's porgression in tech as the ps3 should have it's codebase firm by now and the 360 doesn't have any custom engines powering it's blockbuster games, it's quite an interesting toss up of circumstance and the bottom line is that we have developers fighting for our money pretty damn hard. Bonus.

If the ps3 can get a price drop this year and not be overpriced for it's main purpose as a gaming machine [vs it's competition] then we could see some fantastic graphical innovation on both sides!

Good times.

Shadow Flare3267d ago

The xbox 360 uses dvd for goodness sake. Not only that but its actually the worst dvd player on the market. Red Riiiing!

kingboy3268d ago (Edited 3268d ago )

Well,that way quick but i think his words were taken out of context a little

TruthBTold3268d ago

Visualy the game isn't breaking records so what should be taking a lot of memory, and he said it himself, is the polys in the game. So while it might not be the best visual game out there it will be one of the most detailed games so far, according to what he's saying of course. We'll have to wait and see.

The whole 360 being maxed out wasn't correct. All he said was they are basicly in other words pushing the 360 to where they can no longer add anything which might make the system crash. Refering to the 720, it was just them considering what other things they might be able to do in the future with other projects using their engine, nothing more. Not that they were asking for the 720 already.

Too much system bashing this year. Mostly for the PS3.

edhe3268d ago

Yeah well it is n4g.

It's not surprising that a geometry mashing FPS engine is maxing out systems, the code will be tremendously delicate and any procedural work done on realigning the geometry can have cascading effects which will run any system into a crash.

This is more about how efficient their codebase is at working their hook, rather than the system running out of the usual horsepower used in other games.

PLAYSTATIONGENRATION3268d ago

and Geow1.....basically show what it can do and still some of the best looking games

NipGrip3268d ago

As Epic themselves even stated this.

http://www.computerandvideo...

Denial.. it's a female dog..

TOO PAWNED3268d ago

Can someone tell me, why aren't they mentioning PS3 at all? Is this xbox site or is game exclusive, what? They didn't even say one word about PS3. Possitive or negative

Bob Dole3265d ago

Yeah it'd be interesting if it ended up looking better on the PS3. You get what you pay for. :)

jack who3268d ago (Edited 3268d ago )

yet again you can never max a technology in the 360 or ps3 out because sum one will alwasy find a way to get more out of it lean how to make it do more with less....

*on another note* this bla bla bla(ppl on the web) Xbox 360 has been Maxed out has been going on since 2006 yet better and better looking games keep coming out

Carbide73268d ago

"Xbox 360 has been Maxed out has been going on since 2006 yet better and better looking games keep coming out"

Errr, what?

jack who3268d ago

if you go by what ppl have been saying....this xbox has been max out crap has been on the web since 2006 so why do the games keep looking better?

ezcex3268d ago

same sh*t as the ps3 as having no games my friend

Godmars2903268d ago

Name a few titles that massively extend what's been out so far.

Even Gears 2 is only an improvement over 1.

Aclay3268d ago (Edited 3268d ago )

"yet better and better looking games keep coming out"

What better and better looking games keep coming out? Gears of War and what other games? Besides Gears, there really hasn't been an increasing progression in Xbox 360 game graphics. Gears of War 1 came out in 2006, but Halo 3 came out in 2007 and didn't look nearly as good as Gears of War, a game that came out a year before.

This guy wasn't just talking about graphics, I'm sure he was referring to technical aspects as well.

If developers like Guerrilla haven't come close to maxing out the PS3 with games like Killzone 2, then obviously the PS3 has a lot more to show in it's games graphically and technically.

This game may not really look that graphically impresive, but Maxing out a console or pushing a console to it's limits is more than just graphics because technical things like the amount of enemies on screen, destructibility, and physics all come into play.

jack who3268d ago (Edited 3268d ago )

sry i enjoy the way farcry 2 looks over gow2....as for other games Project Offset go look at the vid and tell me gow2 looks better than it

http://www.projectoffset.co...

@ rdgneoz3

http://news.teamxbox.com/xb...

NaiNaiNai3268d ago

and heres where you guys start going backwards, you bash the 360 for coming out a year early so it gets more sales, and so inturn of course its not going to be as powerful.

also it cost half the price as a ps3, so of course its still not going to be as powerful. but you people never mention this when the 360 is being bashed, when the ps3 gets bashed you say well the price is to high thats why its not selling, or so on and so forth. come on pick a side and stay on it, stop with the flip flopin. and so what if the 360 has less graphical power, i for sure dont care, and i find Geow1 & 2 to be horrible games, they dont play well to me, and i will stay by that. but graphics are not everything. pretty games suck to.
-nai-

cyclindk3268d ago

I agree and don't think 360 is yet maxed, but I wouldn't say the games have become SUBSTANTIALLY better by any means, Gears 2 isn't a vast visual improvement over Gears 1, mostly gameplay refinements.

That was my only disagree, but I won't give you a disagree :)

NaiNaiNai3268d ago

heres something else. look at source, it hasn't gotten massivly graphicly better over the years, yet people still love to play it. graphics are not everything. if anything they make it harder to make a good game.
-nai-

rdgneoz33268d ago (Edited 3268d ago )

Project Offset does look nice. But seeing as they haven't said any thing about a release date and Intel acquiring Offset Software, who knows when it will come out or if it will at all. Also, there was an article posted here a while back talking about the game titled "Project Offset to be a Larrabee Launch Title, PC Exclusivity Nearly Certain" ... http://www.n4g.com/industry... So its not really gonna make the 360 shine if Intel makes it a PC only game to show off Larrabee...

Rhoic3268d ago

Alan Wake.. 'nuff said. The 360 hasn't been maxed out, especially when games that look even NICER than Gears of War 2 haven't even come out yet but are in development for the 360. Seriously? Do people like spewing the same bs every day, even though it is 100% wrong?

thereapersson3268d ago

Uh, the link you posted is over 2 years old. What relevance does any of that have to this article?

+ Show (9) more repliesLast reply 3268d ago