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PS3 Stuck Behind Xbox 360

The console wars are as alive as ever. While the days of Nintendo 64 vs PlayStation are long gone, the three current generation consoles are constantly vying for new demographics, domination in specific regions, and all around sales and revenue.

The Wii from Nintendo has asserted itself as the console to beat this generation, and while many in America may prefer a PS3 or Xbox 360, the Wii has dominated the market in overall units sold. While no one is content to be #2, the Xbox 360 has a very strong presence in the West, outselling the PS3 3-to-1 during the post-Thanksgiving Black Friday sales.

A year after many were calling the PS3 a shoe-in for #1 worldwide, the Wall Street Journal is calling it quits on Sony, claiming that the PS3 will be stuck in the bottom slot forever.

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SonySoldiers3187d ago (Edited 3187d ago )

Anger management is critical at this phase!

Just WAIT.. don't be so sensitive

WANNA GET HIGH3187d ago

How many of this articles are we gonna have before the console war is over and y the FVUK dose it keep getting approved... :/

IQUITN4G3187d ago

A wonderful start to my morning.N4G has got off to a good start this year

Mini Mario3187d ago

I still think there are too many consoles. Two consoles was the way to go...all them years ago...

TheTwelve3187d ago

Again, another article that's just a repeat of the Wall Street Journal report.

Holiday are over, news is getting slow, and so now people aren't even being creative anymore.

12

ravinash3187d ago (Edited 3187d ago )

lets count them all up in about 8 years time.
By then i think all the chickens may have finally came home.

negative3187d ago

Yawn? Personally I love anti-PS3 articles. FTW !!!!

Alvadr3187d ago

Dont care.... Killzone 2... 27th Feb :D

Sergeant Osiris3186d ago (Edited 3186d ago )

seems as if someone at MS really believes the crap they read in the "art of war" and machiavelli's "the prince". let me explain:

they believe by controlling the perception you can ultimately control the reality. Keep saying something often enough and sooner or later people start to believe it. There's a little problem with that strategy.
The belief being imposed has to have SOME basis in reality, something the retards at M$ seem to be in short supply of. In this instance the only thing this constant FUD spreading on their part is gonna do is create a backlash of massive proportions from people disgusted with the way they "do business".

For you young kids out there, these are the kind of tactics that made M$ HATED in the computer industry for 20+ years leading up to now. now the gaming console world and a whole new legion of people will have a new reason to hate M$ with a passion.

Ultimately anyone trying to BULLY their way into an industry and at the same time shove it's main protagonist out of the way. DOES NOT HAVE GOOD INTENTIONS. There are legions of 360 fanboys out there who have fallen for the pied piper's in the media being paid to spread these lies about Sony. The sad truth is that ultimately those pied pipers will lead all these kids to a precipice of a discontinued console from a corporation that only ever cared about them as consumers and never as gamers.

cherrypie3186d ago

Wow. The self-delusion has no bounds at N4G.

You cannot be serious? You need to get professional help.

The PS3 had abysmal sales in November. Games are failling. Even the big 1st party exclusives are selling like arse.

Wii has killed PS3 in Japan. Xbox 360 has killed it in America. There is no space, no hope, no prayer or method or snow-ball's chance in hell that this reality is going to change, and here you are, saying that Tom's Hardware should be added to the list of the conspiracy members (gametrailers.com, TIME.com; wall street journal, cnet et al) -- because YOU sergeant osiris think that the PS3 is going to somehow climb out of the basement?

The generation is (roughly) half-over.

Wait until December's number's come in. JUST WAIT until the December numbers.

You -- and this site -- are going to be DROWNING in stories about the final failure of the PS3.

MARK. MY. WORDS.

The "retail musings" thread at NeoGaf is *FILLED* with this message: Absolute retail failure for PS3 this month. People are talking about not *seeing* a PS3 sold for *weeks* at their retail shops.

Mark. my. words. You sir are in absolute denial of massive proportions.

+ Show (7) more repliesLast reply 3186d ago
shadowghost7523187d ago

Another day another anti- ps3 article

colonel1793187d ago

Only time will tell. The PS2 got bashed every single day for like 2 years after launching, and like 1 year before, and we all know how that ended, so it could be the same for the ps3

karlostomy3187d ago

yeah lots of woe in sony ps3 news.

Still..... "if the shoe fits, then wear it!"

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/W...

MasFlowKiller3187d ago (Edited 3187d ago )

the PS3 has no game argument is no longer relevant, how does the console with the highest rated games of 08 have no game?

The world might never know.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 3187d ago
Graphics Whore3187d ago

Weird since statistics and numbers prove PS3 sold better in 2008 than Xbox 360.

Neoraf3187d ago

360 outsold PS3 in 2008.

The worldwide gap is increasing.
The gap in November 2006 was 5.6 million (One year lead for Xbox360)

The gap in December 2008 is around 8 million.

The PS3 is lagging behind.
Welcome to the reality.

ultimolu3187d ago (Edited 3187d ago )

Evidence of your numbers please. I want it for my reference and please don't show me VG Chartz.

Death3187d ago (Edited 3187d ago )

Microsoft announced 25 million by the end of November. http://www.gamesindustry.bi... Sony announced almost 17 million PS3's in late November. http://blog.us.playstation....

That was a differance of 8 million before December hit. I'm pretty confident the Xbox 360 beat PS3's sales worldwide in December. Once the numbers are released from both companies we will know who had the better year in 2008.

-Death

Lon3wolf3187d ago

@everyone claiming one console sold better that the other, can we have figures and sources please.

Oner3187d ago (Edited 3187d ago )

M$ = SHIPPED (that article above is a misquote/misinformation)

Sony = SOLD (have been using SOLD for quite a while now...)

But the real info is this (as of 1/1/09) for 2008 so far ~

Europe (missing 10 weeks) + Media Create (missing 1 week) + NPD (missing last month):

Wii: 4,754,000 + 2,880,069 + 8,021,000 = 15,655,069
PS3: 2,196,000 + 987,514 + 2,818,800 = 6,002,314
360: 1,566,000 + 317,390 + 3,295,400 = 5,178,790

I agree that we still need to wait for the actual numbers for the end year totals. Though I do beleive that the 360 might edge out the PS3 because of it's price drop, but not by as much as some people would have you believe...but the fact remains that the 360 & PS3 have not "won" even if they happen beat each other as all this Wii phenomenon is just crazy.

mint royale3187d ago

Sony SHIPPED and
Microsoft SHIPPED.

I've no idea why so many on this website have got the impression that sony use sold because they don't. I've said this a million times with a million reasons to back me up but certain fanboys just don't listen.

In financial reports (what death was referring to) EVERY company in the world uses shipped - there is no way for them to know exactly how many are sold at the thousands of stores around the world and thats why tracking firms such as NPD are relied on for their estimates. If the big 3 knew the *real* numbers how come they have never disputed NPD? Because NPD is the best info they get. Same for GFK in Europe and Media create in Japan.

I know many get confused because 3 years ago sony did change the way they reported numbers. They changed from shipped to warehouses (their own warehouses) to shipped to retailers in line with nintendo and MS.

Those are the facts. Anyone disagreeing will have no facts to back it up. If you think you do then by all means show me.

karlostomy3187d ago

yeah, thanks Mint. At least someone around here can tell it like it is.

I, for one, am sick and tired of Sony fans spinning Sony numbers every which way but the right way.

Won't be long now... we'll see confirmed numbers from MS and SONY. Then the SDF spin debacle will begin all over again. :)

Oner3187d ago (Edited 3187d ago )

WRONG Mint & Karl...
The only misinformation & spin I see here is you 2 BIASED liars.
.
.
.
.

"Oh, before you go, those who like to dabble in the odd bit of conjecture and speculation should note that it's been Sony policy for a while now to count "sold" as sold, not shipped."

http://kotaku.com/357883/ps...

"Sony has always had a strong belief and following of only counting actual consoles SOLD to their official numbers"

http://www.psu.com/PlayStat...

Seriously. STFU. Open your eyes, shut your mouths & listen...because you need to understand the truth and stop spreading misinformation.

mint royale3187d ago (Edited 3187d ago )

sony's sold and your sold are different things.

Sold to you is to consumers but to businesses sold is to retailers as its retailers who pay them the money. There you go easy. No need to come on so strong and I am not lying I am telling it fairly for all companies.

EDIT: Biased? You really should research before coming up with these accusations. I'm not biased against anybody. If I had to chose my favourite of the big 3 it would be nintendo as they do the least mudslinging. Good enough for you?

Oner3187d ago (Edited 3187d ago )

So in your eyes "SOLD" somehow doesn't mean "SOLD"...I guess somehow the money is different?!?!

Seriously. Give it up. All I see is more misinformation.

mint royale3187d ago (Edited 3187d ago )

Oh the irony!

And if you actually read what I said then yes that is exactly it and thats where most of your misinterpretation comes from. If what your saying is true and the numbers given are biased against sony how come sony have never called MS out and said so?

Answer: because they report in the same way - not just the big 3 but EVERY company in the world! Have you ever done economics or business studies?

To clarify oner: when a PR person says sold (unless he quoting quarterly figures) then yes he COULD be talking about estimations of sold to consumers. But in financial reports the figures given are ALL to retailers (shipped to us, sold to them) - this goes for ALL companies.

Oner3187d ago (Edited 3187d ago )

Easy. Sony doesn't need to. It is a well known fact M$ is the one who CONSISTENTLY compares to Sony in their financial reports EVERY TIME, that is not always the case the other way around. If you think that Sony has acted in equality to M$ you are SORELY mistaken.

Now that's not to say Sony hasn't EVER made some diggs but there is ABSOLUTELY no comparison when discussing how M$ acts....don't come acting like you are some sort of financial adviser with gobs of market experience, it doesn't help your point.

The fact is you got your PROOF and you continued to BS your way around...very weak & CLEARLY obvious.

mint royale3187d ago

just because you didn't like my answers you've called me a liar and a fanboy. I've clarified my position to you and your last point has no relevance at all. I could find quotes from all of the big 3 talking crap (although that Greenburg guy at MS is by far the most annoying.)

Sony has never said crap? How about 'the generation doesn't start until we say so'.

(comparing how the psp will fare against the ds as both were about to be released) - 'the comparision is not fair. not fair on them I should stress. I'm afraid the ds won't be anything more than a gimmick.'

How about a sony executive (cannot remember which one) telling people to get a second job to afford a ps3?

Or how about another claiming he would give $10,000 for any ps3 that is left on the shelves.

Of course I don't even need to go into the crap MS says that is numerous and well documented.

So there they both mudsling. And they both report in teh same way as its a set standard for PLC companies. Remember those reports are for investors to see how they are selling not for us.

Oner3187d ago (Edited 3187d ago )

THAT'S WHAT YOU CALL "MUDSLINGING"!?!?!

You SERIOUSLY should stop before you embarrass yourself any further...there is NO COMPARISON.

M$ actually DIRECTS their BS towards Sony (to say the least of what they do) whereas Sony just says some (albeit ludicrous) odd stuff.

mint royale3187d ago (Edited 3187d ago )

Your saying MS directs it at Sony - fair point they do but in the quotes I gave you weren't sony directing abuse at nintendo!? Are you blind? That is worse than MS pr because there the Sony person is predicting the demise of a competitior whereas MS are like the little kid trying to prove themselves against the established leader by comparing sales. If MS wins a month it is a victory to them so they shout about it. I agree that MS fixates itself too much on sony but its not like sony have never been guilty of the same thing.

Can we not just agree to disagree?

wii ftw3187d ago

but evidence either way is hard to come by.

http://209.85.229.132/searc...

although people 2 years ago seemed to have a consensus that sony had changed from warehouses to shipped to retailers.

IdleLeeSiuLung3187d ago

From what I can tell, mint royal, makes perfect sense and oner sounds like a Sony fanboy. However, if you look at the number of disagrees the majority is disagreeing with mint royal.

My observation from this site is that there are far more Sony fanboy's here. Time and time again, I see this develop. Perhaps, the reason why we keep hearing the outcry of why this site is so pro MS, is because mostly consist of Sony fanboys....

Just look at the disagrees above for mint royale. He makes a pretty darn good argument that makes sense, yet we get majority disagrees!

Oner3187d ago (Edited 3187d ago )

"Fanboy" this ~

From a previous "fanboy" assumption
http://img300.imageshack.us...
And another
http://img120.imageshack.us...

You don't know a damned thing about me nor what I have done for the scene. STFU.

"Mint royal, makes perfect sense...Mint makes a damned good argument", but yet I provide ACTUAL links & proof that says otherwise over some false, baseless, fact-less statement or an equally weak obscure forum post?!?!? I think we can all see the real "fanboys" here...

Death3186d ago (Edited 3186d ago )

Here is Sony not comparing themselves to Microsoft. It's from a few weeks ago. http://www.mcvuk.com/news/3... Both companies do it. The differance is Sony isn't in a position to make comparisons since they are the ones in third place worldwide.

Shipped, sold and installed. I can see where these are tricky and easy to confuse. Microsoft claimed their numbers are installed. That means in customers homes. I'm not sure how that can be a typo since it came directly from Microsoft. Sony changed their way of counting units from Shipped from the warehouse to sold to retail. When Bestbuy orders a pallet of PS3's, they need to pay for them. These are sold units by Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft's standards since they were paid for. There is a differance between sold to retail and sold to customers (installed base). While it's impressive to count how many are sold to retail, the number installed as determined by NPD, Media Create and Chart Track are the numbers developers like since it indicates how many potential customers they have.

As for the "proof" you provided, it isn't proof of installed units, it is merely sold to retail like Mint is trying to explain. These numbers are more accurate than shipped from the manufacturing plant since that number includes units sitting in warehouses.

Here is Sony not comparing their sales to Microsofts again. They also use the term installed base as opposed to sales. As you can see both companies use this term when referring to consoles in peoples homes. http://www.ps3fanboy.com/20...

-Death

Oner3186d ago (Edited 3186d ago )

Go back and actually READ what I said in that Sony does do it but not in the caliber M$ does. So, yes all companies do it, but SOME do it with quite a bit of constraint in the way it's handled/addressed. Sony "comparing" sales and setting things straight is one thing..smear campaigns, out right lies and BS is another. That is the difference.

Hey "gameplayer"...so you take random unsupported comments over ACTUAL proof?...Uhmm, OK. I don't think I need to say anything more.

Amazing how I get labeled a "fanboy" when all I did was give proof...funny how that works isn't it ;)

I don't see anyone providing any FACTUAL links to these "warehoused units"? Plus if that is to be so why is it no one is discussing how they get replenished on a CONSTANT basis? Wouldn't that mean it is "sold sold" :rollseyes" therefore your whole basis falls apart? Whatever, keep the misinformation coming, we all know it will continue...

Death3186d ago

You aren't bringing proof. You are bringing a statement from a "journalist" that says Sony only counts sold systems. These are not the same as installed systems. Shipped, Sold and Installed are the 3 states that consoles are measured in. Sony and Microsoft both use sold as being , sold to retail. They also make comments on installed which is a referance to consoles in peoples homes. Sony can not track how many consoles are in peoples homes and how many are sitting on retail shelves. Once they sell their product to the retailer, the onlt way they can track installed (sold to consumer) consoles is through a third party like NPD. If you still can't understand this, please explain to us why Sony pays NPD to tell them how many consoles are sold when you think this is information they already know. The numbers listed on Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo's quarterly financials are consoles sold to retail.

Since you feel you are a good measure of proof and truth, please provide me with factual information that Microsoft's claim of 25 million installed is a typo and they actually mean shipped. You can't do that since Microsoft themselves claimed the 25 million is installed. I'm not sure how your third party proof from an online journalist is proof and a direct statement from Microsoft is a typo.

As for your claim of SOny being the good guys in the media jabfest, that is 100% your opinion. You are seeing things how you want to see them instead of how they really are. Both companies take a shot at each other from time to time. Sony completely dismissed Microsoft before the PS3 even launched by stating they determine when the next generation starts http://www.engadget.com/200... and also refering to the Xbox 360 as Xbox 1.5 http://www.engadget.com/200... Keep in mind this happened before the PS3 even launched so Microsoft clearly didn't start by comparing their numbers to the non-existant PS3 at the time. Both compaines make their comments. If you can't see this it is only because you don't want to see it.

-Death

Oner3186d ago

As this is my last bubble I will keep it short, since I feel I have made my point clear enough and I think I already answered most of what you said in my earlier posts. But I will add this...

"If you can't see this it is only because you don't want to see it."

That comment actually applies WAAAY more to others than me in the this situation and also in the overall grand scheme of things here on N4G. That is a true fact.

cherrypie3186d ago

You are really reaching new heights of ridiculous.

Have you ever heard of GAP? Or the SEC? Companies *dont* "lie" about their sales. They have to report all this stuff in the same methods, MS (nor Sony) cannot just make up numbers.

All this stuff is made clear in their financial reports -- if there was any "misrepresentation" (ie: the kind of nonsense you're talking about) they'd be sued by shareholders.

I mean get real, you're fantasy-land-wishes dont make your crap reality. Serious people, do serious journalism, who read seriously accurate data and report on these things *sersiouly* are telling you that the PS3 is failed in the market. These people do this because they are PAID to be SERIOUS about such matters.

The real world called, and they want you to STFU.

+ Show (21) more repliesLast reply 3186d ago
power of Green 3187d ago (Edited 3187d ago )

Sony has to do more than just lower the price...
Games gamers buy the Playstation for are leaving, a PS series/game/franchise a month is going to the competition.

Popular opinion is always underestimated yet it is almost as important as price/games sometimes more of an factor(Wii)Sony is losing that battle ontop of price.

Graphics Whore3187d ago

Lol You're just in every thread bashing Sony, let me ask you with FACTS, if games are leaving the PS brand how come the Metacritic rating for PS3 games is higher on average than Xbox 360? Not to mention a wider variety of games?

Oh that's right, you don't know how to explain this magic.

Bob Dole3187d ago

It's like trying to teach calculus to a cheeseburger.

WANNA GET HIGH3187d ago

Power of green i think u have to wath hancock in REAL HD Blu ray dvd not dvd in order for u to see the true CGI graphics.... :p

HDgamer3187d ago

Funny ps3 has a 20 million install base. Wait they aren't just buying movies they buy games too. Are you going to use the ps3 has no games excuse especially when there's a good amount of exclusives already available?

tonsoffun3187d ago (Edited 3187d ago )

You know, I have stayed out of the console wars since N4G got really bad with the titfortat flamebait articles.

But really, POG, all of this is nonsense.

WHO CARES WHICH CONOLE SELLS MORE? Multiplatform gaming is the way to go!!!!

THink of it this way, all the MS fanboys out there should not want sony out of the console business, think of it, competition breeds innovation, looked at what happened in he handheld market when it was only ninty: it took years, YEARS before we got a gameboy colour and years again before we got a decent handheld, hell it took for the PSP to be anounced before ninty pulled it's finger out of it's backside.

Same goes for Sony fanboys, only fools would want any platform to go out of business.

The market will stagnate with no real competition.

Some people just don't get it.

EastCoastSB3187d ago

It's never going to stop. Even though sales numbers and other bullsh1t have no direct consequences on ANY OF US(unless it will sink the company), people will still celebrate/whine about them.

tonsoffun3186d ago

*ABOVE* Bubbles for you
It's never going to stop. Even though sales numbers and other bullsh1t have no direct consequences on ANY OF US(unless it will sink the company), people will still celebrate/whine about them.

I totally agree, it won't stop, which is a real shame, because we are all gamers first. Not platform supporters.

Monthly console sales, Neilson (sp) numbers bear no meaning to a gamer. Play the game, not a bloody platform.

It doesn't matter who comes first, second or third, as long as they all make enough to ensure that they continue to produce great quality platforms with great games. If one disappears, you can expect there to be no real innovation, just the other trying to do whatever the guy in the lead is doing. So at this point all we would see (and it is happening already) is sequel after sequel with plenty of party games.

I myself have all the platforms and buy whichever is the best version of the game, that's the way we all should be like, that way you have access to all platform exclusives too.

We really need to knock this console war nonsense, and it is an utter nonsense on it's head.

cherrypie3186d ago

It's too late. Simply lowering the price of PS3 isnt going to work. Sony cant dump the PS3 on the market and make-up for it with game sales, time and time again, it has been shown that PS3 owners arent buying games.

Why? The Sony-MPAA movie format is a major audience for the existing PS3 sales.

What the "its just too expensive" crowd dont realize: The Wii and Xbox 360 can **ALSO** lower their price. See? Get it? The PS3 came into the market at its relative price-point, it will almost certainly stay that way.

My prediction: Sony starts a price-war in 2009 to try and save the PS3. It fails, and it costs Sony big big big dollars.

The economy and the better-value Digital Download services (Netflix for instance) have come together and killed the PS3 (and BR which Sony was *really* counting on).

And, when the December sales figures come in, this forum is going to be **FILLED** with Sony-loyalists -- spinning spinning spinning away their last shreds of dignity.

+ Show (5) more repliesLast reply 3186d ago
LastDaysOfHumanity3187d ago

When will these articles stop!?!

power of Green 3187d ago (Edited 3187d ago )

When PS3 does better?

As soon as the hype for PS3 returns to that of a normal console?

As soon as people forget Sony had just won a major format war and should have zoomed to 2nd place.

As soon as the gaming media is finished venting their frustration due to the media being forced to praise PS3 because of Sony's loyal fans as they thought PS3 would claim 2nd place soon(drinking the Kool-Aid)

Bob Dole3187d ago

As soon as you open your eyes POG.

Karum3187d ago

The PS3 has performed better in it's first 2 years than the 360 did. At a ridiculous launch price no less.

How much better do you want it to do?

Hot_tea3187d ago

You have been fudding here since day one. Does it not hurt your fingers?
You know Bill Gates hates you right? HE HATES YOU!
You think M$ will ever be innovative in anything they do at all?

MNicholas3187d ago

In fact, for most of 2008, the PS3 was stomping on the 360 in sales despite the premium price.

Microsoft's massive price-cut and complete redesign of the interface (including the blatant Mii ripoff) was the last ditch effort to regain the number 2 spot from the PS3.

Just as Kia outsells Lexus every day of the week, now that Microsoft is practically giving away the 360 at $199 so it's no surprise that it's selling better than superior (quality, features, performance) hardware that costs twice as much.

As the only next gen console available at the historically validated mass-market price of $199 the 360 ought to be doing a hell of a lot better.

Let's be clear about this simple fact: Until the 360 was being practically given away at literally half the PS3's price, it was being consistently and significantly outsold by the much more expensive PS3.

Being a distant number 2 in sales while being the cheapest product is a pretty sad spot.

AriesFury3187d ago

When Sony and "fans" like you realize that they need to make changes fast or they will be no PS4.

These aren't articles bashing the PS3, it's stating the obvious that you the "fans" and Sony don't want to admit too.

Doesn't it tell you something that something is wrong when so many different articles are talking about the same common thing that is wrong with the PS3 over the past 2 years?

BTW, they were plenty of articles bout the RROD and still are.

ultimolu3187d ago

Don't get me started. Just don't.

1. One article is fine. But when you get fifty different articles reiterating what the first article just said, it gets tedious. Everyone knows that the PS3 did not have a good November. It's obvious because there's a recession going on and people go for cheap things. They don't care about value or what they're getting out of what they're buying. People are scared to spend money over their limit. Even I had a feeling that the 360 would outsell the PS3 in November.

In other words, the obvious doesn't need to be stated fifty times in a row. And you're claiming that PS3 fans don't want to face the obvious. I have faced the obvious already-that the PS3 may not win 2008.

2. The RROD still exists but are you seeing fifty different articles in one day over the whole thing? Please, point me evidence of fifty articles in one day talking about the RROD.

Itrguy0013187d ago

When ppl like PoG get a brain and get their IQ's from -70 to 111

cherrypie3186d ago

"One article is fine. But when you get fifty different articles reiterating what the first article just said, it gets tedious."

Perhaps instead of yelling "its all an anti-sony conspiracy trying to hurt the PS3!!" perhaps you might consider that their are 50 articles telling you the same thing because it is **REAL**?

And, about the heat failures; the reason you dont have articles these days is because the problem was fixed last year.

See how that works? When something happens, it is dicussed in the news.

I would like to draw your attention to the **sources** making a difference as well. TIME, Wall Street Journal and other *big-name real world* news sites are saying "PS3 has failed".

Yet, it is always blorge.com with Yet Another RRoD article. See how that works?

+ Show (6) more repliesLast reply 3186d ago