nagge has spent some time compiling some comparison shots from Race Pro and Forza 2. The shots from Forza 2 are screen captures while the Race Pro shots were taken from the recent high definition video of Laguna Seca. Obviously this isn't a contest about who has the best graphics, but it's more about accuracy and details of the environment.
60°
10°
20°
40°
40°
Ad 
40°
.
http://www.autogaming.net/c...
"i am whatever you say i am" - Marshall Mathers.
Do you guys even know who is developing it? This is the one game that will compete with Gran Turismo as far as physics go. But too bad no one will buy it since everyone has invested into thinking forza's magical physics are the bar.
One thing ALL developers need to work on: The tyre model. They are almost all complete rubbish.
Forza can't even evenly divide throttle/brake/traction
Its realistic to people that don't know what a tire does.
GTR2 Rfactor Live For Speed and Gran Turismo all don't allow you to go WOT and still have traction in turns, nor do they allow you to slam on the brakes while still turning as if you still have traction. Unlike Forza1 and Forza2.
You can get beyond unrealistic times doing hotlaps in forza2 because of this.
Don't pretend to know what you are talking about when you cant even use a decent steering wheel on the 360 to even tell.
They are good games, but good as far as arcade goes. If a person was to think that they could drive the way they could in Forza in real life, you'd have a population decrease due to people flying straight into walls while trying to turn and thinking carbon fiber bends.
Dirt is more responsive than Forza2 has ever displayed it could be. Forza is for people that love smashing accelerate without ever feathering it for deceleration/turning.
You and anyone else has amazingly low standards if you cant even use a 6speed Wheel with weight and force feedback , can't stall, and think that its anything close to bar setting. I'd go as far as to say without those things, you cant even accurately tell.
ALL tyre models on the ISI-based games (rFactor, RACE, GTR/2, F1 Challenge) use a Pacejka-like model for tyre analysis. This is fairly rudimentary and should have been improved since we are in a generation where CPU processing capabilities are very, very high. Live for Speed and iRacing (along with Richard Burns Rally) have their own proprietary tyre simulations that offer much more realism when it comes to slip angles and load sensitivities.
According to Dan Greenawalt, one of the Forza staff: "We consult with top automotive engineers and professional race car drivers to create the most complete racing experience available. Our advanced tire and suspension models were built to be future-proof. The tire physics model alone took us over three months to develop and tune for the original Forza Motorsport. They respond to heat and pressure changes as well as weight transfer and aerodynamic load."
The tyre model within Forza 2 was created in conjunction with Toyo (who you should know make excellent street-legal tyres)
There are discrepancies within the engine it must be said as some very peculiar setups create very fast lap times. Beyond realistic. I'm not sure if its the tyre model or not which is at fault as with a gamepad, it's hard to feel a lot of it (on PC I use my G25). But Gran Turismo cannot be let off the hook - its entire physics model is a crude evolution of earlier models and still fails to analyse many things correctly. For instance, aero-loading on GT5: Prologue is highly incorrect (as an aerodynamicist, I should know). It is particularly evident in the Ferrari F2007 where wing angle of attack changes don't herald much increase in drag.
Please, if you think you can dismiss me and bring up DiRT of all games as a comparison you Sir are ignorant. Enjoy Forza for what it is - a modifiers heaven. Race Pro does indeed look good but as a PC sim racer, I've played it all and more 2 years previous and with better hardware.
-nai-
Forza1 was better than GT4.
The Gran Turismo series has stagnated because it has practically been a big fish in a small pond.
Forza1/2 Dwarf GT4 when it comes to the stuff players really truly want. I bought my first Xbox thanks for Forza1.
Whether or not its better than GT5 full, is up to polyphony. The japanese are stubborn and Forza is definitley the well needed fire under Polyphony's proverbial ass.
But thats from a strict Feature standpoint. GT4\5 still offers an amazing carlist track rendering and vehicle rendering that Forza just can't match. Physics wise, people will go back and forth forever. I track my car, the best sims out there are the ones that I have mentioned. For me, and they just happen to be fan favorites as well.
Damage, and the GT series I feel is something that is definitely needed. But I do not believe that you will benefit from it. Most like PC sims with (real damage) the race is over, and you are done. You have to restart, and thats about it. I feel sorry for the people that think that damage means better online racing for everyone. Once you add that online elment, jackasses will be jackasses. With or without Damage.
Time penalties to me, are more important than cosmetic damage.
But I fervently believe that sims do not require accurate damage modeling, much like flight sims or any other sim. You are siming the actions and balancing of the machine. Not the destruction that happens when you make a mistake. Certain areas of damage definitely need to be in games as they are a part of controling the machine and often vary, Tire wear/Breakwear/Engine Temperature/Transmission/Aerod ynamics/Suspension are all something that you have to be able to manipulate/control while driving to be a better driver. Definitely mechanical damage is more important than cosmetic(until it changes aerodynamics) the vehicle should control and act expectedly.
Gran Turismo skates the line of being a SIM, but simulating competitive driving more so than Racing. There is a difference, and that difference is definitely where Forza excels. The ideas behind Gran Turismo have always been to take a car out for the drive of your life. Thats it. Picking an amazing car and driving it on a road. Forza one upped Gran Turismo by adding way more features, but until we see GT5 which will officially be the first GT thats been built in the face of a good racer, you cant know for sure. GT4 was pretty much developed by itself meaning there was no real competition out there to compete with. I think its only fair to stick around until we get a full game to start really truly comparing the featuresets.
But at the same time, Forza wouldn't be the game it is today, if it wasn't for Gran Turismo. Its easy to improve on something that already exists imo.
----
Scotracer
LOL.. well I'm right the hell out of place with that comment. I just assumed n4g didn't attract anyone of any real sense.
Everything you are saying is valid, but you cant sit here and pretend that Polyphony hasn't done the same things.You being a mechanical engineer has nothing to do with just stating that someone from Forza's staff said so. Polyphony has gone on record having engineers from the manufacturers to come in and check the physics of the game and the world in relation to the cars. Which with the Nissan GTR's relationship to the series, isn't just talk.
What im saying is beyond the tire model, Forza doesn't realistically balance traction/braking/acceleration. Which even if you have the best tire model, wont matter if you dont balance the inputs from the player to the vehicle accurately. Because I'm getting 100% braking power, and 100% traction while turning in the game. You can get stock car laptimes that aren't realistic by tens of seconds over even the fastest laptimes. For all we know, toyo could just be a sponsor.
Same could be said for all of Gran Turismo's endorsements. Thats why I leave it up to my feet and hands to tell me whats what.
EXCUSE me for dismissing you :) But as far as Forza is concerned as a 'simulation' Dirt provides accurate balances of your driving powers of braking/acceleration/traction more so than Forza does. And as far as aerodynamics go, please man. Forza2 doesn't calculate the SHOGUN WingsWest bodywork accurately. Which would even be a joke to bother doing, but lets not act like the 'driving simulator of Gran Turismo has to simulate Air perfectly, especially when forza2 doesn't even come close. Thats like saying 'well gran turismo doesn't simulate exhaust correctly' when again, its not even a gameplay issue in Forza.
Gran Turismo is far from perfect, but it gets right what most sims get right, and what Forza lacks. For car enthusiasts you've got second to none carlists, second to none tracklist, second to none visuals, and oh yeah.. some good physics.
Race Pro will more than likely be a better game, because I have absolutely no faith in the Forza team when it comes to the actual driving part of the game. When it comes to features, theres no contest. But im about the cars & the road, anything else is just a luxury.
edit: @ Scotracer
Sorry for insulting you if I did.. as much as a person on the internet can insult another person.
The best simulation I've ever played is iRacing but it's so expensive that I wont be renewing my subscription any time soon.
i don't know about everyone else, but i didn't enjoy forza 2 and felt let down by pgr 4, so this is the game i am looking forward to.
I can't tell, haha.
FYI the 360's Xenon is the 64-bit last-gen tech.
So I think you ARE being sarcastic.
Thanks but no thanks.. I have GT5prologue and Forza 2 to feed my Sim cravings and Motorstorm PR to feed my arcade racing cravings. I dont need Race pro and besides, in those Pics Forza 2 looks better
Pixelated shadows on 360, getting more obvious.
I'm sorry but forza2 just looks like a ps2 game.
There is no depth, just looks plain. horrible really.
Go and play GT5P, you'll be blown away.
Best graphics in a RACER EVER.
Forza has SURFACE damage not TRUE physical damage.
There is reason some car manufacturers do not want a true damage simulator in a game. It would highlight flaws in design. Like XYZ car is susceptible to Rear Right Driver Side damage more so then ABC comparable car. Surface damage is a visual representation no surface damage. It's useless eyecandy.
unfortunately.
works really hard to make awesome racing games. This should be kick ass, only i really wish that Atari would make another open-world racer because Test-Drive Unlimited was the game that got me into racing games.
GT5P Spanks any of those games.