An image of a police officer that contained the slur has been removed from the game.
I'm sick of this weak pc generation where everyone is offended. I wouldn't apologize for anything.
It's one thing to be offended at something that was clearly offensive. It's another to search high and low and manipulate something just to be offended such as this instance. The numbers aren't even remotely close to representing letters.
Yup people go searching for something to be offended about just for self pity.
Define "clearly offensive". Depending on the person you're talking about, they exact opposites could be what is offensive. If you go down that road, entire subjects will not be allowed to be discussed, at all.
I can't tell if you're showing how young or simply how ignorant you are to various aspects of internet culture, but I encourage you to look up 1337-speak.
Are you telling us that “FA6607” is just coincidental? Is that what you're really saying? I can't tell if you're joking or not.
LOL What? It's very clear what those numbers represent.
You're joking right? Look, I am not offended personally, seeing as my generation used the word daily. It's what guys called one another when breaking balls. However, as an adult I do understand why it is offensive now because the discussion has been brought up and I now get it. To pretend that leet speak doesn't exist and that someone tried to manipulate the above into being offended, is to alter reality. It was put there with a clear purpose.
Holy shit N4G is a cess pool of the worse kind of people. It's clear what it says and the fact so many people upvoted you is insane. This place sucks.
Apparently, they have an image screening process to look for offensive material, and likely copyrighted material. I guess the "leetspeak" translation isn't so widely known that it got caught by the people who are supposed to be looking for such things. But, to me, anyone that uses leetspeak should really be shot, and I assume anyone who could recognize it enough to be able to pull this one out of the triggered bag probably falls into that category. @Jeki It's also the hex color for safety cone orange. Maybe the artist just really likes safety cones, or the vest that police wear which is the same color. I don't think that's the case here. I think the more logical conclusion is the artist slipped it through. I personally am not offended, and not sure if I should feel offended with others who feel offended by it. I find the representation of a cop being a donut eating....not sure what really...and I assume the slur was used to cast shame on the police, which the signage actually does, and such a term would be derogatory and even common vernacular in many cases. So, I assume it refers to the cop/s, as opposed to the group of people who would be traditionally classified under the term in it's definitive context. @averagejoe It's clear what it says. Just no one cares that other people are offended, because the people that get offended, seem to do so so much, that they have become the modern day equivalent of drama queens, or that ex-girlfriend you eventually kicked to the curb because you got tired of listening to all their whining about their lives, and how unfair everything was, when most of their problems were self induced. Don't mistake people's lack of empathy as anymore more than just being tired of hearing people such as yourself cry that you are offended, and that we are somehow moral degenerates who have no redeeming qualities. There's a distinct reason why people now treat much of these issues with such hostility, and it has nothing to do with them being discriminatory
Oh come on. I agree with the first part of what you wrote but "The numbers aren't even remotely close to representing letters." It's pretty obvious what it means. That is 100% intentional (which is fine, it can fit into the context). It represents a slur for sure, even if it is a nod to Police Story or whatever.
Yeah, they do represent letters. Come on. Artists have a tradition of hiding messages that would never pass muster if they were obvious. The problem here is that the message hits a very sore nerve in current times. "Sticks and stones . . ." was the wisdom of my youth. That obviously has changed now, for the worse.
I'm sick of people acting like only the offensive have freedom of speech. Its just that simple. You don't want to lose the ablility to say when you don't like something. Again I'm warning people overtly what they are advocating is brainwashing. Everyone, the offensive and the offended have the right to express themselves.
completely agree but they're not legislating the offended.
This isn't a first amendment issue. No one is seeking litigation.
Except in this case the offended demanded the stifling of offensive speech by demanding it be taken down, censored. Has nothing to do with whether it was litigated or not. The developers gave in because they don't want to be labelled homophobes.
The people who are offended aren't having to spend 10 grand to Sony, and 5 grand to MS, to issue an update because of a piece of art. They get to sit on their soap box on the internet and be offended, when the piece of art doesn't affect them beyond their own triggered emotions, which are really only their problems in cases like this. Not saying they don't have the right to express they're offended, and Ubi is free to feel that it isn't proper and remove it. Just that freedom of speech is usually a one way street nowadays, because even lack of action can be a press release nightmare if it's not handled right, and can cause lots of money lost to a company due to an innocuous comment or some piece of art slipping through like this, while the offended don't have any recourse against them for spurious claims, or damages to the company for their own actions and comments through said free speech. Oh.....and this isn't a free speech issue. Ubi isn't forced to censor the content. That's their choice. The people who pointed it out aren't being censored, just people are hostile towards those groups now. More people are offended by the offended people, than I think are offended by the original content. But that's where we've gotten to in today's society, where every molehill is a vast mountain range....with an erupting volcano in the center....which was really just put there by the patriarchy or something.
I hear you im sick of it too
I'm sick of this weak PC generation where everyone is offended by people apologizing because they feel they should and they have the freedom to do as such if that's what they want.
This in a nut shell.
I'm sorry you feel that way.
You would if your business model depended on it and people began boycotting your games. Personally, this would have completely escaped me had it not been brought to my attention. Then again, I don't play Ubisoft games anymore and I only read the article out of curiosity.
The people who unapologetically offend any group they don't agree with are so easily offended.
Yes that's the ultimate irony. Those who are so "sick of apologizing" are the most sensitive of all. Rather than pondering why something may be offensive, and trying to better themselves and make the world a better place, they fold their arms and cry foul.
You miss the point.
No, he really doesn't. The offended of today's society have diluted the meaning of "being offended" to the point of it really just being a socially acceptable way to be a drama queen, and actually have people continue to listen to you longer before they get tired of listening to you or putting up with your crap. By you and your, I'm referring to the people who are offended. We're currently at the point on these forums at least, where many of us are just telling these people we're tired of hearing it. If all goes as normal, then those people will eventually be ignored, will have to conform to fit back into society, or continue being offended to the point of being social pariahs, which they already kind of do by forming safe spaces for themselves. It'll help when companies stop pandering to them, because as of now, they're just being enabled to feel like they're achieving something meaningful.
Looks like you may get arrested for wearing this T-shirt now. Heck I might get banned here. https://images.app.goo.gl/z... But then you ll probably miss the point anyway.
Sounds like you're outraged at the people who are outraged at the outraged.
I would have never noticed it other than that I'm enjoying The Division 2.
me neither. i don't speak or write that leet crap so it definitely would have went over my head and i would have thought that it was the stereotypical portrayal of a cop eating a donut that would be deemed offensive. which i wouldn't understand since the simpsons do it all the time.
I didn't recognize it, even when they called it leetspeak in the article. I have seen leetspeak enough to recognize quite a few words, and I always found it annoying when people use it. When I saw the FA letters at the start, I thought maybe it was some reference to some hex code, so looking it up, it's safety cone orange. A rather specific color to just randomly be chosen out of millions of possibilities. Although I think the term the article posits, and that people are offended by, is actually more likely.
I don't care about this "controversy" but Division 2 has TONS of great little details, its really worth exploring every nook and cranny.
I firmly believe we should only focus our conversations on this mural and the rainbow flag found in the game and never discuss any other aspect of th division 2.
The game is about shooting/killing people but THIS is somehow offensive? GTFO
Haven't played the 2nd, but if it's like the first one, there are quite a few socio-political topics relevant to today which are brought up, or at least referenced in some way throughout the game. Some subtle, or even barely referenced, others more detailed.
Sorry, but this logic is very silly. I don't even think the graffiti is a big deal but the argument you are making does not make sense. The comparison simply doesn't work. By your logic, you can't have text/image that is offensive if it is in an FPS game. I mean, come on lol.
Anybody that's opinion means anything doesn't care and they should have left it in.
It’s a Black Flag album cover except toned down a little . The donut replaces a gun and there’s an unseen person saying “make me come FA.... . It’s suppose to be a comic book cover called PoliceStory . I totally forgot about it until this article
Exactly. Someone just wanted to give a nod to Black Flag and, as usual, everyone is up in arms over nothing. Nothing like a bit of controversy to create clicks and free advertising.
Glad there are always those on the net who can put things into context. No matter how obscure, or how technicall something may be....someone will know what's going on, or what something is referring to. If some of these people who get offended maybe did some research, or at least discussed it before becoming upset and running off to social media, maybe they'd understand the context, and not find it so offensive. I know it takes more work, but that's really what I think normal people should do....at least more than half the time anyways.
It looks like pcgamer was the only one who took the time to look into it. The funny part is, if people knew more about the context here, a whole other group would be whining and crying about it. There's a certain level of irony in that. Meanwhile, I'm sure I'm not the only one wondering where those "offended" are actually at. Thankfully those types aren't on my SM, but I'm not seeing them anywhere. To me, it seems like once again two sides are just screaming into the void at one another without taking the time to think. And Ubi creates a bigger situation out of it by going on the defensive when they could have explained Black Flag and their own artist's rationale for including the piece in this game in the first place.
i don't think it matters what it's referring to. especially when it's an unpopular comic book. the world we live in today is a sensitive one and all mahor companies like to remain on the neutral side of things so as not to offend ANYone.... as an example, there are a lot of songs and tv shows that get censored today that probably wouldn't have 10 or 15 yrs ago. I'm not saying it's right, just that i understand why they do it....in this instance, leaving the word in this game is saying that Ubisoft is ok with the word and that may not be ok with it's shareholders.
No major corporation wants to be associated with homophobia. What is so difficult to understand about that?
So they want nothing to do with homophobia but they want guns and killing to be on the forefront as well?
What's hard to understand is why the corporation would be associated with homophobia, or any other -ism, in the first place. Particular in a game that references social issues regularly, and has lots of different cultures clashing against one another....a major part of the games context, and can take both sides of the issue with it's art to reference different sub-cultures of society, or through narrative devices. This is the disconnect that many SJW(A common term used for the people who are offended), and the general denizens of the gaming community(and most social media) have. The SJW(to keep it simple) are extremist, who believe that their way is the right way. No one else who disagrees with them is worthy of listening to, and they should be silenced or shamed into submission. That any offense is always the extreme of good or bad. There is no in between. There is no context(which jznrpg gives above) taken into account. It's just, "We're the victim because this game represents something we don't like, and it needs to be taken down, or we'll make sure everyone knows[thinks] your an evil company/person." If they want to feel this way, then fine....but they're constantly bringing this conversation to us by them lashing out, and the companies deciding they have to remove said content, or they'll be associated with some sort of discriminatory perception. Hope that's easy enough to understand. People, in general, aren't upset that people are upset. I think most people are fine with others expressing their opinion, even if they don't agree. They may not always show it, but realistically, that's how 90% of the discussions are had around here and on the net in general. What people are tired of is the extremist and rather vitriolic way it's done now, where its actually having a negative effect on the industry, and the content which we get.
Someone likes Black Flag...
This is taken from the art on the cover of the single "Police Story" from the legendary punk band Black Flag. Oh well... enjoying TD2.
Outrage is an insane hobby.
But the 'F' word is used by that community anyway so how is it offensive?
The N word is used by black people. It's still offensive. Because context is important. When 'group' X uses 'slur x' that refers to members of their own group, everybody generally, *knows* that they're not actually attacking them for that thing. When people outside the group use it, people don't know that, and often have little/no way to know that, and that fact is very important because of the well established history of people using those terms specifically to attack them (and/or while attacking in some other way often physically.) If some black person calls me the N word, I don't exactly like it, but I don't fear for my saftey or think they hate me. If a random white person does it, I do fear for my saftey, and because the stigma is known and they chose to use it anyways I have *every* reason to think they're deliberately attacking me specifically because I'm black. So the short answer to your question is "context"
Context is important. But in this case, all context is actually ignored, and it's people being offended by something that wasn't likely to be inherently offensive, but rather a tribute to the source material it was inspired by. The 'F' word in question here is a common vernacular term used to denote a specific kind of persona that the person speaking it feels is relevant to the person. While the origin of the word is in reference to something to describe a group of people(although it's real root definition is something completely inane), the term itself isn't always used in a way to denote reference to the common group that it's attributed to. So....lets put your "N" word context example to the test. The "N" word is rather common vernacular nowadays. Mostly due to rap music becoming popularized within non-black communities through what I'll call cultural appropriation to keep it simple. Couple that with the media's use of the word in many popular movies featuring black actors, typically gangland style movies from the late 90's and early 00's, and this cultural thing where there were a large number of teenagers who thought being gang like was cool, and the term gets turned into something else. The context changes, as does most langauge. Yes, the root of the word is offensive, and it's been more offensive at different points in our history over the past few hundred years, but the term itself isn't always something that is said in a way to be be derogatory. You point out that if you don't know a person then you may be concerned without knowing the context in the situation, which is reasonable. But, in the case of a media production such as a game or movie, one's own personal safety isn't at risk, nor is the term usually being aimed at them specifically, or even the group in general that it may refer to.
You're assuming people know things they don't. If people see a homophobic slur written on a wall, they don't assume "oh that must be a reference." That's not how it works. And that can't be how it owrks, because it's not feasable for everyone to always look up everything, and always assuming the best serves only to let truly vile people fly under the radar and normalize their bigotry. The N word has *always* been common. And for the *overwhelming majority* of it's history, it's been used specifically to target black people (usually by white people.) The fact that black people use it in media/music to refer to other black people doesn't somehow change that if a non-black person uses it they're almost certainly deliberately attacking whoever they're speaking to."It might not be intentionally offensive" isn't like, actually a defense. Because we both know it almost always is when someone who isn't black uses it. The "F" word is no different. Lastly, no. If you don't know the context of the statement (and if it shows up in like, a game), the *only* context you have is the proven history of word-as-attack (often in tandem with other, more physical or political attacks.) There's *every* reason to assume you're being targeted. And the normalizing of bigotry is just as much an attack as someone shouting slurs at you in the mall. Arguably worse, because it's not 1 random jackass, it's a whole lot of people spreading an idea to a mass audience, and such things have been known to spark crimes/hatecrimes in response. And, again, I don't know what black flag is, or would I even have a way to know what it's a refernece to. All I see, and all most people will see should they see the leetspeak on the mural, will be a homophobic slur written on a wall.
why? you're conveying a real world. art like this everywhere.
Why would you apologize for something in the story of your own game? It's free reign at that point FFS. If GTA can get away with all of these things then so can you.
Yeah. How dare they do what they want, they should do what other companies would do instead.
They didn't do what they want they caved to pressure. Them adding it in at the begging was them doing what they want.
How do you know they aren't doing what they want? Stop making shit up.
Some individuals within the company clearly were disavowed. Nommers is right.
***Some individuals within the company clearly were disavowed. *** Individual want does not equal company want.
Fictional characters should be allowed to be racist, homophobic, misogynistic etc. That's what makes them characters, and a character does not necessarily reflect the opinions of the creators. Bad people should exist in fiction.
Welp there goes any respect I had for Ubisoft they've become PC betas like alot of other Western and European devs/publishers.
Homophobic? Even if this were actually a joke, joking about gays doesn't mean you have a phobia.
Obviously a bad joke from someone who made the art. Does not look like something to actually offend and removing it was the right move.
Seems more like a reference to an old piece of art, where it had the term used to express something different. I don't think it was meant to be a joke, but an homage.
Never apologize to the mob, sjw’s Are cowards and when they smell blood they go for the kill
1984 here we come
PLEASE...just one company! Don't apologize!
All this PC bullshit makes me resent these groups, not respect them.