Epic’s new store has started a war with Steam, representing two titans duking it out for dominance.
If Epic want to be competitive, then that is fine, I have no problem with that and have always said that. What I don't like is them buying out people to have their game exclusive on their store. All this says to me is "Download and sign up to our store or you can't play the game". I also don't like that devs use Steam for user feedback and beta testing and then pull the game from Steam just before they are about to release the game. That is a really crappy move. About the launcher. When people say they don't want to download yet another one, they have valid reasons for not wanting to do that. We keep saying competition is good, but when you have a market over saturated, it becomes annoying and very frustrating. Look at it from this point of view. We have Steam, Uplay, Origin, Discord, GOG, Epic and a few others. That is multiple accounts and passwords to remember and your bank, credit card or paypal details that you need to trust these people with. It's gotten to the point where people are saying "how many is enough?" and they have a good point. In 5 years time are we going to have to sign up to 20 different companies just to play games? 20 different accounts to remember, 20 different passwords to remember, 20 different places to store our payment details on (and that means a higher chance of having your payment details stolen) 20 different places for your games, friends and achievements. So yeah, it's not that we just don't want to download another launcher because we see it as bloatware, it's an issue, but it's a minor one amongst all of the other concerns we have.
That's an understandable reaction, but you have to understand that modern game development is incredibly expensive and risky. Valve taking 30 percent of a games profit is way too steep in the modern era, where game prices haven't gone up but the value of the dollar has gone down tremendously, and the cost of game development has also gone up exponentially. I get that people are weary of Epic, but honestly, I feel very passionate about the success of Epic Store, as it stands to help all developers. They aren't making a proprietary launcher like EA, this is for us, the game developers, and really will force Valve's hand if Epic succeeds. Epic lowering their cut also stands to lower the price of games if the developer deems it reasonable. Hence why Epic Store's Metro is 10 dollars cheaper than Steam's.
I'm not so sure 30% is too steep a cut for Valve in all cases when often times because of Steam's ubiquitous install base these studios reach more consumers than they would anywhere else. Regardless, competition from EPIC is ok if done in a manner which is not seeking to create a new monopoly by paying studios to *not* publish their game also on Steam. What I really dislike about the EPIC store is that there are no user reviews currently and they are adopting an opt-in review system for the publisher. Steam user review can be very informative especially since they correlate play time with the user comments. I think publishers are afraid of their customers and would often times like to stifle or silence negative feedback. By opting out of user reviews, publishers can hide poor game decisions and keep that all precious sale. In an age of live service games, consumers are best served by having user reviews alongside the product being sold. Anything else is not very consumer friendly. What EPIC seeks to do in cozy up with devs and publishers by limiting user feedback. Devs are not the enemy here but when they implement poor design choices in games, consumers need to find out. It is not really about the inconvenience of another launcher. That argument by EPIC and their friends is just a red herring. Now if EPIC store implements real parity, feature-wise, with Steam then I am all for competition. But currently for me, I am just not buying any games from EPIC and that includes Metro Exodus. And it's a shame too because I think Metro Exodus looks good but I can't bring myself to help EPIC. I'll wait for a year.
Steam allows publishers/developers to sell an unlimited number of steam codes. Steam earns no commission on codes sold this way and can be offered on any website and for any price the publisher/developer chooses. So the argument that Epic store somehow better for developers is kind of bull. And it's certainly not better for gamers with their crap return policy, walled-in exclusives and scare features.
"Developers usually make approximately 50% of all sales in retail stores (about $30 per game sold). The other 50% goes to distribution, vendors, and the retail outlet takes the smallest chunk (5-7%). Steam cuts out all of those middle men and only take 30% giving the developers 70%." Also, big games net devs 75% after $10 million, and 80% after $50 million.
@soulclaw Who cares, you're in Germany.
They aren't making a proprietary launcher? The only game they've released in the past few years is only available through their store. It's a proprietary launcher.
Arbitrary exclusivity in general (including arbitrary console or pc exclusives) are really annoying, but there really isn't anything we can do about it -- it's one of those things that we unfortunately have to learn to deal with.
I agree with you, but people were hating on the Epic store before they did that. They chastised it because it wasn't as fully featured as Steam on launch, and weren't willing to give it a chance because, "I don't want to have another launcher on my system". Not saying that I agree with some of the things epic is doing, but the hate isn't just because of the exclusive deal.
Steam gamers doesn't like competition, it's all about not being on my favorite store.
How can you come to that conclusion when my comment above yours explains a lot of people's concerns?
Slot of people all I see is that's ur concern don't push your opinion on others or speak for others steam players are just cry babies plain and simple
I like humble bundle for my money goes to charity. Is the fact that Epic is not gamer friendly. No mod support, no game reviews, etc.
I'm more worried about their security, I keep getting attempted hacks (thank you 2 factor authentication).
Steam is more then just a crappy store , why do you think there are well over 100k users ?
Imagine defending the Fortnite Launcher.
Imagine being an Indie Developer and only paying 12 percent of profit instead of 30 percent, and actually being able to afford quitting your day job to work on your dream full time.
Thank god I'm a consumer and this has no effect on me.
Imagine being an Indie Developer & being so stupid that you think selling your game exclusively on a bare bones store with less users willing to pay for your game is a good idea just because they take less of a percentage.
We aren't here to fulfill your fanciful dreams! Make good games and they will sell themselves. All these indie developers think the world revolves around them and we should bow to their presence. Newsflash: You aren't a rockstar, as much as you want to think you are. GET OVER YOURSELF AND MAKE GOOD GAMES.
It's much more complicated than that.
Not really. They just want everything on their store. Steam is their team. So EPIC store is the enemy. Simple as that. We can come up with all the excuses and look from all angles but it just comes down to tribalism.
AnubisG This is a very simple outlook on the situation, i use Steam, Origin, Uplay ect no problem. Like others have mentioned i do not like the idea of any company throwing money at devs to pull them to their half baked store that has zero benefit to us, the consumer. There is definitely some that just want games on Steam but there is nothing wrong with that either, it's by far the best launcher by a mile and to my knowledge Valve have never thrown money at devs to pull them away from places like GoG ect.
Oh really? How about people that rely on steam big picture to play games in the living room? Not only that, but epic store is lacking in a massive amount of features that steam has, such as cloud saves, user reviews, forums, user-created guides, broadcasting, the list goes on. I'm all for competition, but having to miss on basic features jist to play a particular game and/or having to keep track of what launcher has what feature is a pain in the butt.
Cause its incontinent to have to deal with two different launchers and have two different accounts etc basically people are lazy.
Lol and most of them use more then one launcher and auto sign in lol they are all just cry babies
It goes much deeper. Steam has the big picture mode, it's own os, and some other features that epic store doesn't. I'm sure that epic store probably has some features that steam doesn't have too, but it's a pain in the butt to have to keep track of which store has what feature that I need right now.
Steam has a feature which is in Windows already, so that's why it's much deeper?
Timed exclusivity is bad regardless if you're on PC or console. I don't mind installing a launcher to play a publishers own games, but don't cheaply throw money at random games to stay off every storefront. Epic has just been giving even more money to people that don't need the EGS to survive. They let 2 of the fattest publishers in gaming sign with them. This goes against their end goal.
Um their end goal is to be a competitor to steam and get their launcher downloaded so seems pretty in line with their end goal to me.
@Shikoku Tim's endgoal is to get the 30% rate lowered across the board. Tim handing more money to publishers who make too much already doesn't make people attach to the service. It just pisses them off.
lol incontinent eh? Having no or insufficient voluntary control over urination or defecation?
Yeah, I misspelled man you sure got me....pathetic. I use Grammarly keyboard on my phone cause I'm dyslexic and it will autocorrect, sometimes I catch it sometime I don't.
They are not compete fairly. Don't advertise ur game on front page of steam only to pull it right before launch Still will sell the most on steam compared to epic No user reviews unless developers allow Don't just run with the headline for clicks
Will the Epic Store have steep holiday discounts?
I`m sure they will, they give out 2 free games a month as is
From the point of view of a consumer, Steam doesn't need competition. Frequent sales, and a huge constantly growing catalogue. I think it's publishers that have an issue with it, and it's because of the cut that Valve takes. But yeah, I don't want like 20 launchers. I don't want to be giving my bank details to that many of them. The more of them there are, the greater the number of vulnerable ones. I also don't want to bloat my PC with all of them. Also, I don't want Steam to end up getting outdone by competitors and going bust. I have a lot of games, and I'd likely lose them all. These digital platforms just aren't able to handle a situation like that. I know it's not likely, but with Epic doing what they did with that Metro game, who knows.
Valve is the walmart of PC gaming. I'm glad epic is throwing some curveballs.
Because soon they will turn this into a monthly subscription and we are stuck behind Apple/epic/amazon/google’s pay wall. PC should not have exclusives.
After explaining this in another comment section. I'm not going to repeat myself. However, based on Tim's tweeting, I feel like he has barely done any research on why Steam is bad for devs since he says things and reads them back wrong to people. Doesn't seem like a good business mindset. Just good at developing.
Sweeny is a bit of an introvert. He isn't always good at expressing himself or what he's trying to say publicly. But he is very intelligent, and understands more than most. He helped build the industry into what it is today, and should never be taken lightly when he sets his mind, or his company, to accomplish a goal.
Cuz we're tired of so many damn installers. Plus Steam works just fine and we're used to it.
Because it is not a real competitor, it just pays devs to not release their games on steam instead of a healthy competition where they could offer better prices, better services, exclusive in-game content etc. Imagine if sony paid rockstar to release RDR2 on xbox one a whole year after its initial release, you think they'd be happy?
what exactly makes the Epic Store a "real competitor"? The store itself is inferior to Steam, inferior to GOG too, so what exactly makes it a "real" competitor?
Steam = 30% cut Epic = 12% cut It's not necessarily enticing to the consumer (yet), but believe me it is enticing to developers.
Because steam is better and this will fragment the achievement system, invite systems, save storage, there's no guarantee that these new stores will be around in 5 years (remember games for windows live?). The new stores are a benefit to publishers, not consumers.
A few of the major publishers don't even use steam, and the same could be said for any of them. Their ability to sustain themselves for the long term isn't a reason to hate them now. It's a reason to maybe wait and see, but not outwardly project so much hate towards them. I agree that the Epic store has a long way to go to match Steam's features, but Steam didn't start off any more ahead than Epic is now. In fact, they started off much the same way that Epic is now. A basic concept, from a very popular company. Biggest difference is, Steam didn't really have competition back then, and Steam was a pretty new concept....mostly started to distribute Valve's own games.
The problem I have with PPL defending Epic Store is the argument of the 30% cut, yes it's steep but Steam in return offer a robust architecture. Steam reviews that are made by owners of the game and are tuned to avoid sudden hate bash. Real forum and a place that does reach customers. Can you play Epic's game offline? Forum? Support? Review? Mods?
IMO, those features dont justify a 30 percent cut.
GoG has none of those things and still charges 30%. 30% has been the standard for the last decade. The only reason devs are making Steam out to be greedy with it is because they think since the market has grown that everyone should just magically lower their percentage ignoring any of the losses the company may take.
@WombBat Well my opinion is that your opinion is shit. Pete's offering legitimate reasons, and the only reason you give against them are 'duh 30 percent cut, duh'. People have already gone into the many reasons that 30% idea is a load of crap so I won't bother going into it here, but it's not a valid reason to piss off your fanbase.
Well maybe because we don't want all this shit installed in our PC's. I have Steam and Battle.net --> only for Overwatch. And I refuse to add Origin, Uplay, Epic or whatever other shit they can make up. To me Steam is the only thing I need. Everything else, I just torrent all single player games, Assassin's Creed. BF V, examples. And theres nothing that will change my mind.
It's kind of funny, because this is kind of what this whole subscription model will bring to gaming as well. Every publisher, or company with enough money to get into the market, can have their own service, and then everyone has to pick and choose, and end up losing out if they don't want to deal with all the BS.
My problem isn't competition, it's the splitting of friends lists that annoys me most. I don't want to have to check five different platforms to see which games my friends are playing. It's a pain in the f*cking ass.
If only epic had all those features that steam has. But it does not. So no, it's not really a competition for steam. And instead of improving their store epic starts making 3rd party games exclusive on their bare bones store(and believe me when I say this that pc gamers hate exclusive or any sort of thing that even resembles or hints at a closed ecosystem, there's a reason why Microsoft failed and still has not been successful on pc gamong market). So yeah no wonder pc gamers are mad. Not to mention we are getting tired of having too many launchers, it's too much of a hassle. Now the last biggest problem for me and others who are not living in USA..no regional pricing, steam has that.
It's not that competition is bad, I just don't want a different launcher for every game.
I think this article summed it up at the end. Steam caters to consumers and Epic cater to developers. Why should the consumer like that they are getting less so that the developer can get more.
Epic is a real competitor to Steam now? Last I checked it was all wishful thinking on Epic's part. It's going to take a lot more than buying exclusive PC distribution of a Metro game to get them to compete with a giant like Steam. I get that they're trying to pull out all the stops to get themselves to the point of being a competitor, but I don't like that they had to step on countless toes of Steam users in their attempt to get there...and they're still so far from being there it's not even funny. Competition for Steam would be a good thing, but I don't really like how this prospective challenger is handling things.
Its funny how the people who write these articles, really don't have a clue. Competition is great, but forcing people to buy a game on a platform that they don't want to buy the game on, is anti-consumer, and does nothing for gamers. Competition means, that you release the game on all platforms, and let gamers choose where they would like to buy the game. if it s self developed game that publishers want to release on their own platform as an exclusive, then that's fine, as it makes their own platform and product line differentiate from all of the others.
You can buy this game on all platforms, on your PC and consoles.
Steam is a platform.
Why do people act like Steam is just a store?? It has sooo many features that the Epic launcher doesn't, in fact most other "stores" don't have them. It's no surprise they take a larger % of sales, development/maintenance/infras tructure of their platform would obviously cost more. Let me know when Epic is on par...if it ever is.
And a new store, which doesn't have all the features, is a reason to hate it? I can see not wanting to use it until it becomes more feature rich, but since it was announced, people have been hating on the store. They can't claim it's because they are buying up exclusives, because the hate started from day one.
I am willing to bet half of the posters in here don't even game on PC
Steam lower your price!
exclusivity is monopoly not competition but if you make good revenue for dev and better price for customer than other store that a competition.
Steam has an incredibly robust system in place for tweaking and customizing all of the major controllers... for any game. No one else is even attempting to copy that. Origin has been around for 8 years, Uplay for 7 years. Neither do it. The Xbox app doesn't do it, the PS Now app doesn't do it. Twitch, itch, and GOG don't do it. Epic Doesn't do it. The consoles don't even offer this type of support for their own controllers!
Exactly!!! Its because they aren't real gamers! They are fanboys who are trying to shout as loud as possible about how they are real gamers. Real gamers would welcome competition. Real gamers would care more about actual games and less about what store the games come from!
I don't get it either, more competition is a good thing, all this stuff people are complaining about are non-issues, it's like whinging for the sake of whinging, Steam has been anti-competitive for a long time and no one really seemed to care much (now it's hard to compete with them).