Rapper 2 Milly accuses developer Epic Games of "unauthorised misappropriation" of a move he created.
This is getting out of hand.
I see I have the unpopular opinion on this, but this games dance moves dlc is built entirely on cultural appropriation. Which is a problem because Epic is profiting millions from it meanwhile the creators of said work are not seeing a penny. Regardless of how silly it is, some of these rappers have made their entire career (and I use career loosely) based on a dance craze. The milly rock is a decently popular dance craze so it would be common decency to pay the man and all other artist a SMALL royalty for Epic profiting off their creations. It’s no different from a professional choreographer suing someone for stealing their dance routine, and said thief making millions off of it. Give these guys 5% royalty profit made specifically from the dance emote being purchased or make them free for gamers. Epic is making $5 million off these emotes, 5% aka $250,000 back to the creators is not asking for a lot. That being said legally he has a huge uphill battle, and it’s unlikely to end wel for him unless multiple artist legal up.
Yeah but anyone can say they were doing the moves long time before the rappers. What's next start suing nfl players?
Good points. "That being said legally he has a huge uphill battle, and it’s unlikely to end wel for him unless multiple artist legal up." From my reading of the article, it seems there would be a legal case if they used the whole dance, or maybe even a combination of steps used in the dance, but not a single dance step. I haven't played much Fortnite. How much of these dances are being used?
This isn't cultural appropriation. Epic and those who play the game, live in the culture in which this dance was created and released. 2 Milly is not his own culture, and everything he created is just adding to our culture. It is part of our culture. Cultural appropriate is taking the culture of someone outside your culture, and making into your own. Cultural appropriate tends to be done in ways that forgo its original place in the culture it originally existed in. In Epic's case, they simply used the dance as anyone might if they were trying to look cool after doing something, somewhere, where they felt dancing was appropriate. I'm not sure what 2 Milly has done to think that his dance is somehow not appropriate for that, to label this as appropriation. That said, based on the article, this case will never make it past the preliminary hearing in its current form. A dance move itself can not be copyrighted. Lets say MC Hammer created that sliding thing he did...which he didn't, but just for an example. If he had, that single move could be used by anyone to create a full dance. That move itself would be free to use. If he had quite a few dance moves in sequence, with a specific rhythm assigned to them, then it would be choreography, and that choreography could be copyrighted. however, changes to that choreography, make it a new and distinct work, and as I recall, this dance had some added steps to the actual dance.
There is no such thing as cultural appropriation. It's called white guilt.
@rainslacker It is cultural appropriation in the sense of what the definition of that word is because it is specifically apart of hip hop culture. New York hip hop culture to be exact. This guy also blew up off of the dance move as well and made a hit record about it. Its actually named after him and is called the Milly Rock. Its very popular in New York and among black youths. This case isnt about cultural appropriation though. Its about if he came up with the dance move, which he did, and if they took said dance move and incorporated in the game, which they did.
Yeah you do have the unpopular opinion and rightly so. Making the claim that its "cultural appropriation" is massively arrogant but I'm not surprised by it, that ridiculous claim gets made a lot these days, looking for a quick undeserved buck wherever they can get it. We copy writing dance moves now?
It’s always the uneducated that are the first ones to respond negatively because they are ignorant (by definition a lack of knowledge) of the definition of words because they take offense to anything that they were told is bad and offensive even though they can look up the definition and educate themselves. Cultural appropriation, at times also phrased cultural misappropriation, is the adoption of elements of a minority culture by members of the dominant culture. Because of the presence of power imbalances that are a byproduct of colonialism and oppression, cultural appropriation is distinct from equal cultural exchange. Particularly in the 21st century, cultural appropriation is often considered harmful, and to be a violation of the collective intellectual property rights of the originating, minority cultures, notably indigenous cultures and those living under colonial rule. Often unavoidable when multiple cultures come together, cultural appropriation can include using other cultures' cultural and religious traditions, fashion, symbols, language, and songs. This is exactly what Epic is doing, and the issue again is not that they are adding these dances moves to their games, but they are profiting off the creation of others. Give the emotes out for free and it’s a non factor, because no one is making money, but that’s not what’s going on. Anyone against this has NEVER dealt with royalties or contract negotiating them, because regardless of how small it may be when you create something or add to it, and it’s profitable you are entitled to those profits so long as you can prove it. Milly creates a dance, made a song for said dance, a hip hop video, and made profits from it. Epic is taking said dance and adding animations to their game based on said dance, and selling it as a $5 emote, and calling it an awkward name in order to not pay the original artist. It’s not right. Half of you would be angry if someone at your job took credit for cleaning the break room when you were the one who did it, and be ready to call them out. This man had his creation stolen and is watching as a company makes millions off of it, and most definitely aren’t donating that money to underprivileged urban youth (such as those portrayed in the music video). So yes he should be entitled to financial reimbursement and yes it is cultural appropriation.
My commit was specifically directed at solidgamerx
@ABizzel1 "It’s no different from a professional choreographer suing someone for stealing their dance routine, and said thief making millions off of it" Its totally different, a dance ROUTINE is hundreds of dance steps all combined to make a routine, a dance move is exactly that, a single move. Its like someone trying to copy write a single note as opposed to a song.
@shaggy2303 Someone coming up with a single tag line in a song (1 word / name / etc...) can be copywritten and so can a dance move associated to said song. If I'm making a song / instrumental / movie etc... and there's someone in room who recommends something and I use that persons idea even if it's a single line of dialog they are legally entitled to royalties if they can prove their contribution to the project. I work with royalty contracts ALL THE TIME. Regardless of how small it is, he is legally entitled to royalties if Epic is making money off of a dance / dance move / he created. It's not okay for a company to make millions off these dances and not pay the creators anything for them, once again 5% of the royalties is a fair payment specifically for the income made off the single dance emote.
How can he win? Dance moves aren't trademarked...
He cant. This is a publicity stunt...I really don't know much about the rap scene anymore...but I am pretty sure this guy isn't a big name...now hes going to get his name out there
Rap is pretty bad over all IMO. Nickle 9 is killing it though, last like 5 year this albums have been on a whole over level. Same with Yelawolf, his last two albums have been fkin dope.
Exactly. He is suing to get more hits and fans.
Christ, I must be getting old because I don't know who any of these people are. Milly Rock?? Nickle 9?? Yelawolf?? Never heard of any of them. Not that I'd be in to rap, but still.
Yeah, plus the dance move was in the season pass and was never sold nor do they claim any dance moves. He's wasting time and money hoping to grow his weak ass name
Did you have to pay for the season pass? If you did, that means they sold it.
@annoyedgamer He won't win but you are wrong and right at the same time. Dance moves aren't trademarked but the can be copyrighted. https://www.copyright.gov/c... I'm not sure if he copyrighted the moves but if he didn't he doesn't have a leg to stand on and will lose. No offense to you but I don't like it when people spread ignorance of our laws and rights. Everyone should know what their rights are in this world and not let anyone take advantage of such ignorance especially overpowered wealthy people and businesses. There is already too much ignorance spread over the internet without proof and then everyone starts believing hearsay over truth and facts.
That applies to choreography, not a single dance move.....which this article is making it seem like that's what he's suing over. Everyone should know their rights, but before you claim others are ignorant, read your own link. From the first page of the article. Relevant parts highlighted, and notes added in  Rhythmic movements of one or more dancers’ bodies in a DEFINED SEQUENCE[more than one move] and a defined spatial environment, such as a stage[full dance under protection because it was broadcast] • A SERIES OF DANCE MOVEMENTS OR PATTERNS into an integrated, coherent, and expressive compositional whole[not just random flailing, but expressive work which is repeatable throughout] • A story, theme, or abstract composition conveyed through movement • A presentation before an audience[valid because it was broadcast] • A performance by skilled individuals[subjective, but meets the qualifications] • Musical or textual accompaniment[if you can call it music, then sure] Interesting way to circumvent copyright protection, clipped in places to remove legalese. "A derivative choreographic work is a work that is based on or derived from one or more preexisting works, regardless of whether the preexisting work is a choreographic work, [snip] Typically, derivative choreography is a new version of a preexisting choreographic work or an entirely new work that combines preexisting choreography with a substantial amount of new material. [maybe not a substantial amount was added, but its not exactly the same] To be registrable, the new material that the choreographer contributed to the work must be INDEPENDENTLY CREATED [was done through mocap or their animators] and it must contain a sufficient amount of creativity. Simply making minor changes or trivial additions to a preexisting choreographic work, or adding movements to a socialdance would not satisfy this requirement. " This last sentence could get Epic. They did change the dance a bit, and what is considered minor or trivial is highly subjective and based on if the judge feels it changed enough. Regardless of what the judge feels, an appeal would send it to a pre-trial jury to decide if there is sufficient enough change to be considered derivative work. We, on here can only determine how we feel about that aspect of it, but it won't mean much once it hits the courts, as they'll use their own discretion on the matter.
@rainslacker I was commenting on whether someone can or can't. It would be up to a court of law to decide and interpret those laws and thankfully not the court of public opinion. I provided a way to find knowledge on this situation. Too much public opinions condemn people everyday without the whole complete and truthful stories. Gossip and hearsay should not be used to ruin a persons life without facts. I already see way too much gossip and hearsay all over the internet way more than actual facts. It's very sad when misinformation and untruths floods our information highway to become false truths. The internet is supposed to bring all the worlds knowledge to one easy place but it also allows for lies and untruths along with ignorance to spread just as fast. I don't expect anyone to take anything I say as fact but open your minds and find the truths and facts yourself instead of just taking what any one person says on the internet. Thank you @rainslacker for taking the time to do your own research. That's the way it should be done and encourage.
Might they have case for passing off? If these dances are well known for being attributed to particular artists, they may well do. Not sure - is it referred to as ‘palmed off’ in US?
He can't but he's certainly gonna try cause you know anything for a quick buck he did nothing to earn. Hopefully for his sake whatever money he's made on his garbage rap career was enough to afford powerful attorneys cause I'm sure Epic has that covered.
I think there might be something to this. Have you ever played a Just Dance game? They are very careful to not use the actual dance moves performed by the artists and I don't think it's because they feel they can think of something cooler.
Good luck with that
Basically committed career suicide... for those that heard of him/her.
more likely he'll get more people to know about him. Whether they appreciate him or not is another story. Dunno know about his music. If it sucks, then no matter how good his dance moves are, it won't matter. Seems a rapper would be more interested in his words, than how good a rug he can cut. If he's good, then there are better ways to get attention in today's world.
Cant really kill an already dead career.
So now we are "patenting" the way our bodies move...
I don't see how it's any different than Kim Kardashian insuring her butt for 21 million.
You can't see a difference between a person paying their own money to ensure something stupid and a stupid person suing someone for something? Um ok.
Been doing it since 1978. Knowledge is a strong tool of life. https://www.copyright.gov/c... Learn your laws and rights. Also just because someone patents something or copyrights it does not mean people can't make or use them. We can as long as it is not for monetary gain. So please don't go around saying you're going to copyright walking or a catch phrase and sue everyone who uses it. Doesn't work that way, learn your rights.
Learn the law before you start spamming the article.
Technically a copyright. Patents are for inventions. That said, I already copyrighted the sequence of typing you used to write that comment, so expect a call from my lawyers. Better hope you can prove you typed it with your left and right hands reversed....or else I shall take you for tens and tens of dollars.
what's funny is i never heard of this guy - and he supposedly has a dance move that BELONGS to him?
If you've heard of him, this would be the only thing you know... the dance
Who is this guy? He should be paying Epic for making him relevant!
Funny, I wonder if they would have named the dance after him in the game, would he's be suing?
he would be getting paid
this guy must be high, in demand.
Makes me respect Alfonso Ribeiro even more. The only dance move other than the moon walk I’d ever recognize is The Carlton. As far as I know he never threatened to sue anyone and everyone uses it
He didn't own it though. The producers of the show did. Or rather the studio who financed it...NBC if I recall correctly. That said, I don't see the producers caring, and I'm sure Will Smith, who was the producer of that show, would probably love it. But he has talent, and isn't a jack-ass who needs to try and be more than he really is by acting like something valuable was stolen from him. That said....really miss that show and I can still recognize HammerTime.:)
That's because Alfonso never created the Moonwalk neither did Micheal Jackson. The origin of the Moonwalk was made up by hip hop dancers in the early 80's that used to break dance on cardboard for money on the streets of NYC. Alfonso dance The Carlton originated from a Post Punk/New Wave dance in the UK from the early 80's which they started to do a lot on the American Dance pop show American Bandstand.
The "moonwalk" was around even longer than that. I think both dances have their origins in the 20s or 30s.
This is going to be tricky...
Publicity stunt by someone who knows the average hip hop and fortnite fan is about 11.
He has no case
maybe if his dance wasn't a national hit.. then yeah
I hope he loses.
Hahaha! OMG! The subculture of sampling other people's work and trash-talking over it, now getting ruffled feathers over a dance move. Yeah, right. Good luck with that.
They have to pay money to those people who’s work that they “trash talk” over. It would be nice if these artists were paid for dances they made popular with their music. You know since EPIC puts that dance in game and slaps a price on it.
You do know you have to pay to get a sample cleared, right?
2 Milly? Lol what a douche
How much is he suing them for, 2 millyon dollars? *I'll see myself out*
LOL! Feel free to stay that shit was funny.
i fell off my dinosaur
Typical rapper that nobody knows wanting quick cash because his "music" is trash.
i don't thing any rapper wants to be in a court room in front of a judge if they don't have to be lol nothing typical about a rapper suing someone.
frickin Americans, they are out of control
dance move are coprighted? LMAO so people want to sue for human body movements?
A move he created? Dance moves themselves are not able to be copyrighted, so how does he even have a case? Only the sequence of moves in the form of metered choreography can be copyrighted, and wasn't this one of the dances that was different enough from the original to be more inspired by, than a direct copy?
If this guy didn't have a lawyer to file on his behalf and to make his claim sound like actual appropriate English, I'm sure his entire deposition would be: "They be stealin' my fresh moves! Cultural Appropriation! The crackas that make Fortnite be keepin' da Black man down!" His claim has absolutely no merit, but of course we all know this is all just a ploy to get free publicity; Just like that one rapper that "disavowed" Kanye West after visiting President Trump at the White House. And oh lo' and behold, that same rapper had a new song and music video ready to publish soon after he publicly disavowed Kanye West.
Yea.. because ya know, thats how all the blacks talk... _-_
These ghetto thug rappers certainly have a penchant for ignorant, broken English thug ebonic talk. What I love is how people like you who just assume that I was suggesting that All Black people talk that way really just expose their own prejudices and their own habit to project; You obviously didn't think on that level and you view this pathetic rapper as any everyday Black person, otherwise you wouldn't have made such a stupid and blind comment. You're just like those virtue-signaling liberals that had that ESPN commentator fired for using the term "Guerilla Tactics" while commentating during a Serena or Venus Williams tennis match... They all thought he said "Gorilla", therefore they thought he called her a gorilla, therefore he was RRRACIST! Funny how SJW NPC libtards like them are so ready to accuse others of being racist, yet they immediately think of apes and monkeys in association with Black people, at least on a subconscious level. So who were the REAL racists in that situation???
You could've done without the ignorance. I'm sure your foods are bland
This fool has an old interview video out where he admits that he took the dance from people in his neighborhood. You can't sue if you stole the shit yourself lol
You would be absolutely right if you suspected Epic to take legal action against someone trying to profit off of their cultural contribution which they think is protected under the almighty essence of "intellectual property." As a result, this guy should sue them all the way to the bank. Corporations never think it's piracy or copyright infringement when they do it.