The issue of pure hardware sales and Microsoft’s likely dismal showing this generation, does draw into question what the company might have planned for the quickly approaching shift to the next generation of consoles.
I already knew this from beginning. They use the software numbers to make sure that they don’t feel embarrassed by their hardware numbers. Even The Wii U have a low hardware sales numbers, but Nintendo have their gut to show it. The reason I want companies to show their production software and hardware ? Because I want them to be better competitors. The Switch was a big improvements from Wii U, because Nintendo learn the mistakes, not hiding it.
Showing the numbers doesn't make them better competitors
Must still be in little league, no scores taken... we’re all winners here... pffft
First thing I learnt in bussiness uni, that being clear is the best way to gain trust and to show integrity for both cunsumers and market. Number always matter because its bussiness.
It does actually.
It makes it known that it was a meh selling system and it makes it a cautionary tale of what happens when you mess up an entire generation. Phil might not be able to do much if Nadella's not giving him the OK, but I'm sure he still wants Xbox to succeed and to maybe even, one day, beat Sony and Nintendo. It's that drive that got Ford to create a racecar that was better than Ferrari's back in Ferrari's golden era. They were embarrassed by their losses and they weren't gonna have it anymore. MS needs that moment and that moment won't happen unless they first hit a low point that makes them reflect on their mishaps. Letting the whole world know how his product is doing and taking it personally because he's the head of Xbox should spark something in Phil Spencer if he is who he tried to present himself as. If it doesn't, then either he's okay with mediocrity or he just doesn't care as much about Xbox as he should. It doesn't give me much faith in Xbox if the guy running it doesn't have faith in Xbox. It sure lit a fire under the asses of the guys and gals at Sony and Nintendo, now look at them. They both flaunt it proudly but they don't brag too much. They obviously take pride in their successes and they don't plan on slowing down. That gives me faith in their brands, that they're not just gonna give up and let my investment in their consoles go to waste.
Initially it doesn’t, but you have to stop and think about it. Showing numbers puts the truth out there. If you don’t like it then you’ll work to change it making you a better competitor. Hiding the truth does more harm than good. You’ll never gain the trust of consumers this way
Why not? They were so adamant about parading around before.
Let's be honest here, if they were good enough to brag about, MS would absolutely be flaunting them.
@Trooper Truth. And they still do brag about sales or numbers when they're able to deliver it in a context where they're winning, like when they bragged about having their best sales Dec. 2016 and being the only current gen console to see year over year growth. A petty nonsense statement that put Sony's business out there. It also showed their love for numbers that mean nothing without context. Who cares about what percentage growth there was without knowing the numbers those percentages are based on?
but last generation it did though
If Sprint has the balls to report their failings for years, Microsoft can show how many units they're behind. Transparency.
No but it shows integrity MS f up royally this gen and have done a lot to save a sinking ship but like others have said even Nintendo released it's numbers with the WiiU.
Microsoft have themselves to blame. They started this NPD sales importance non-sense when it benefited them. Now that it doesn't they're ready to move on. I guarantee you if they release a game and them numbers go up they'll walk this shit back like a moonwalk.
Simple reason is that it looks bad when their competitors are doing better, and they don't want it to affect their share price. So as long as they are making a profit from the business, that's what they want to try and focus on, because the sales numbers are atrocious compared to last gen.
"We are continuing to look at engagement as our key metric for success and are no longer reporting on total console sales," Gotta keep the illusion up, but trust that if Xbox One sold well, even for one month of the 12, they'll share that they're the "best selling console of the summer" or whatever bull that the Xbox die hards keep falling for. Remember, if you do not learn history, you are doomed to repeat it. So I expect no real positive change for the Xbox anytime soon to be anything dedicated to a gaming flourish like old times and you die hards shouldn't either. Going to be another E3 with a majority being 3rd party deals and some service enhancements. Phil's honey coated words won't be as effective this time around, especially with what Sony and Nintendo has to show. They only need to show Last of Us 2 gameplay & some Metroid 4 to put in some nails. It really looks like Xbox's movement is a scattered clusterbomb mess the amount of times one employee contradicts the other. I'll show the truth since they're too scared to. PS4 - 78.2M Xbox One - 37.2M Switch - 16.7M, came out in 2017 and soon to overtake Xbox One
@MakoD Showing the numbers didnt make Sony a better competitor this gen. Showing numbers doesn't matter at all. It's the people invested in the company who want more of the market share. How do you do that? By providing a sought after product.
Really ? PS4 is big improvement over PS3. That’s because Sony learn their mistakes, not hiding it. If you keep defending this, MS isn’t going to be better. I’m sorry, but you really need to understand more how business works. Show your production to the investor and consumer if it’s flawed. The company can improve themselves by listening the feedback. MS biggest problem right now is their lack of exclusive. Exclusive give console identity. Xbox One is Gaas machine, no longer a gaming console.
lol, "using different key metric for success" my ass... 1000% sure if they ever win that reason will go straight out of the window and treated like it never existed.
Sort of does already, whenever xbox wins ndp the few times it has, Aaorn greenburge uglyness is just around the corner to gloat
So true lol. You know damn well if it was 80 mil xb1 vs 40 mil xb1 ms would be shouting it from the rooftops and running commercials around the clock saying... "The most powerful and #1 selling console in the WORLD All the suit and tie xbox ppl would also be constantly tweeting and bashing than they already are.
They should have just said 'we're getting our butts kicked by both Sony and Nintendo .'
Maybe you're right
The only reason they won't release sales figures is because they won't be able spin the disappointing numbers in a positive light.
nintendo is incapable of learning. the past decades have made this very clear.
Microsoft has a platform not a system. Their platform destroys Sony's, and if you really wanted to count games being played on their platform, which you should because in the end it all about income, then you don't want to compare Sony to Microsoft. Consider yourself lucky they are quiet.
Nice spin! Keep spouting that corporate drivel and suckling on micro$oft's teet.
If you take away everyone playing games that aren't sold through MS store on pc. As in played on valves steam, battle.net, epic etc. Then ps probably would still beat em out. Cup head was a fine example of proof pc players barely touch the MS game store lol. I have pc and I was going to buy cup head on MS store because I thought it wouldn't be on steam but it was. MS is losing in any competition with Sony and Nintendo. Period, it's not opinion or debate.
If im not mistaken you are correct.
I mean why to this day despite Sony selling so many consoles over microsoft, do microsoft still have alot more subscription users/payers than what sony do. The Sony fanboys can preach console sales but the Microsoft fanboys can preach subscription sales and there platform does destroy Sony's. While Sony were still doing free gaming on ps2 and 3 Microsoft were busy building there service which has always been more stable and of a better quality. Microsoft can bring updates like the plague compared to what sony can also. Sure Sony has exclusives and that is great but because exclusives are risky business at any point those exclusives could spell trouble for a consoles and it has happened before. If it happened to Sony I must admit with the sheer amount of risk they do take that it could at some point impact heavily on Sony if it goes wrong, especially if fans do not support the majority of exclusives being made. Microsoft actually despite half the number of exclusives that what sony has on there console have done very well and it goes to show consoles can make it and survive without exclusives and they are not as gospel as what some on here say they are.. The way some on here go off about Microsoft and Xbox is crazy but believe it or not most people who are against them who have opinions always seem to base it all off exclusives, when really all it sounds is like a book being judged by it's cover and you didn't even a little bit think towards how much the millions who play xbox live and Xbox can see what you can not..
I actually Won't buy anything off the Microsoft store, I always wait for Steam or GOG to get it first, otherwise I just don't buy the game.
It's not even software sale numbers actually. it's "engagement" whatever this means ))
Since when was approaching 40 million units dismal?
From what I can see, Xbox One have 37 millions units. I think Xbox One won’t reach Xbox 360 hardware numbers. And I don’t think Xbox One will make a comeback like PS3 did.
By 5 years in PS3 was already well overtaking 360 with exclusives lol.. Took about 2-3 years for PS3 to start dropping bombs.
I don't even think the Xbox one approached 35 millions!
Oh I can say for 100% certainty the XBO wont reach the 360 numbers. It hasn't suffered from RRoD to cause consumers to have to buy multiple replacements. Some would say PS1 and PS2 also had padded numbers, but their issues weren't as prevalent as those of the 360. Both companies have had their bumps in the road and recovered. Some pot holes are there forever (like RRoD) and can not be avoided no matter how many times they try to pave the road.
“Since when was approaching 40 million units dismal?“ It’s dismal compared to the competition. Xbox 360 is outselling Xbox One at the same time frame.
Isn’t that because of the RROD? I see you guys conveniently throw that arguement around when it fits your agenda.
@Kun_ADR MS are the ones throwing that around when convenient. They justified Xbox sales early by saying it was outselling 360, then let it hang out there for the gullible to repeat years after it ceased being true.
@ Dark Yet that still doesn’t make XO’s 37 million an underwhelming number. It’s still sold more than many other platforms and is still heavily supported by various developers. If you want an actual example of a dismal performance this gen look no further than the failed Wii U & Vita. I’m not saying XO is a huge success, but to say it has a lackluster performance is pretty ridiculous considering we’ve seen various platforms, including two platforms within its generation, produce far less savory results in hardware sales and major developer support. A product selling slower than its predecessor doesn’t mean it’s automatically a failure. If that were the case then SNES, Game Boy Advance, PlayStation 3 & Nintendo 3DS should also be considered failures. You don’t have to continually break records to not be considered a failure.
The money spent on developing the Xbox hardware, and the amount of U turns does make the sales lackluster. More so when the Switch is on course to surpass it, despite the X1 having a 3/4 year head start. Once Pokemon releases on the Switch that will see it close the gap even quicker. For those reasons, make the numbers lackluster.
Doesn't matter how good or bad people label their standings. They aren't where they would like to be. Remember all that 1st to 10 million wins talk. . . ..operative word being 'wins '
The difference is, is that neither Sony or Nintendo are acting like those two platforms were exceptional. Nor are the fans. They both readily admit, or at least released numbers, that both those systems were lackluster. MS sales aren't really terrible though, but they seem to really be adamant about not mentioning them....except in those instances where they can make them look good....but even then, its only vague metrics which are the metrics people use, without any contextual numbers to make them relevant. They don't even report the numbers to investors....which is sad, as they focus on revenue, while hiding the profits in the process.
@ Mr_W That’s kind of black and white mentality. There’s never been a platform that’s sold more than 35 million that could be considered an all around failure. @ Wood And neither were those other systems I listed. You gonna call them failures too? @ rain SNES, GBA, PS3 & 3DS did have exceptional sales. They have nowhere near lackluster sales. You really do have revisionist history just to make XO sales look more terrible in comparison.
@phonixup But gaming isn't a none moving thing, it's getting bigger and bigger. Also when 30 odd million consoles equels less market share then again it is lackluster. When sales are slowing down, and your rivals sales are either going up rapidly (Switch) or consistently higher than yours (PS4) your market share will decrease. Not many business would be happy with 30m units sold in nearly 5 years, and after millions invested in "the most powerful console ever", you're not only falling being a rivial, you're also losing market share to another.. If Xbox had sold 60-65m, yes that would be less than PS4, but still very respectable. And yet, despite the release of X1X, MS won't talk numbers, because they know its not good, and I'm willing to bet that sales are slowing down. And have been for a long time.
It’s not so lackluster that major developers would just abandon it like they did with the Vita & Wii U. It’s still a major platform in the eyes of the industry. PSP is also an example of another platform that lost market share to its competition yet still sold a considerable amount. X1X wouldn’t dramatically increase hardware sales regardless. Iterative platforms don’t do that, cheaper slimline models do. Also in 5 years XO would’ve passed the 40 million mark, it wouldn’t be at 30 million.
Nice strawman. But you do know that developers and publishers don't run MS? Regardless of what they think, it's the money men at MS, who's opinion on sales matter, and if you think they will be happy with the sales, then why not share that? They won't because they're not.
Probably because the other console that launched within the same time frame as the x1 has managed to double the number of units sold in the same amount of time it took the x1 to reach almost 40ml (best guess as MS don't want to admit their numbers are so low)
It's not, but relative to your main competitors numbers it is.
There are a few reasons like its dismal compared to the PS4 and Swtch, its dismal because the Xbox 1x is out for almost 6 months now and its showing no signs of gaining momentum, its dismal because the Xbox 1 has fallen behind the PS3 and 360 in sales comparison by some margin.
Not dismal. Not great either. Obviously, Microsoft isn't very proud of the number sold. If they were then they would be telling us what that number was.
Since one of their competitors is more then double their console sales and the other is at half and gaining quickly with a much less powerful system and cardboard peripherals, pretty much since then.
Agreed, tbh ms have always been in 3rd place when sales numbers of previous generations come to a halt.
@sprinterboy uh the OG xbox was 2nd place behind the PS2 The last given number by either company had the 360 at 84 million and a month later the PS3/PS4/Vita at a combined 100 million (why wasn’t sony releasing the numbers for the PS3 or Vita alone?) when the ps4 was announced at 10 million 2 weeks later (and the vita was over 7 million at that point) . So off of official numbers that pegs the 360 ahead of the ps3 😉
@Krib Except ps3 sold almost 87 million units in less time than 360 sold 84..
@goldby and where did you get that info? Because the last released numbers for both systems was 80 million xbox 360 Oct 2013 https://www.gamesindustry.b... 80 Million PS3 Nov 2013 https://www.gamespot.com/ar... 84 Million Xbox 360 June 2014 https://m.afterdawn.com/art... 100 million PS3/PS4/Vita July 2014. https://www.gamespot.com/ar... That’s it. Without more official numbers from either side, the 360 ended the gen ahead. You can speculate, but you can present anything different as facts
@Kribwalker But let me tell you this, Xbox 360 didn’t end the generation with a bang. PS3 did ended the generation with a bang by The Last of Us.
@UCforce the xbox 360 got titanfall and Rise of the Tomb Raider to close it out. That’s a pretty good bang
@krib Article from Gamestop in July is quoting numbers from november. And. How is one exclusive a pretty good bang? And I got my numbers from VGChartz The only place where all the numbers are compiled. While not 100% correct it is the closest we have
It's a great tactic, simple shift the goal post so people think you're doing better than you actually are. Lest all be honest about it, they were getting destroyed, and their sales numbers made then look bad in comparison with the meteoric record breaking sales figures of the PS4 (and later on the Nintendo Switch). What happens when Nintendo start posting high growth attachment rates, or Sony start posting high revenue growth figures, will Microsoft change the goal post again to something silly like hours played online, or whatever the PR reps come up with to keep their jobs. It was Microsoft that created this problem in the first place with their braggadocious attitude during the 360 era, they would constantly parade numbers sold, I remember when Halo 3 launched, and it like broke sales records everywhere. Microsoft where only too happy to shove it down everyone throats. "But oh how the mighty have fallen."
"It's a great tactic..." In all fairness, if it were a great tactic, people wouldn't see right through it. It's more like.... a desperate tactic.
Wonder if they are counting all the times I turn my xbox off too and the time i am not using it🤔
If you have either a PS4 and/or XB1 and have an internet connection to either console then Microsoft and Sony will be capture statistical data. Of course, it is possible to limit data collection but not all. Basically, the XB1 runs the Windows 10 operating system which has been designed to collect data although it is possible to opt out to a limited extent. Yes, I am well aware Microsoft apologists will point to Google Chrome and how it can collect data, however, it is fairly easy to tell Chrome not to collect data or just use a different browser. The same cannot be said when the operating system (ie. Win 10) is designed to collect data and send it to Microsoft owned servers assuming your PC (with Win 10) or XB1 is connected to the internet. As I have already said before it is possible to limit the amount of data collection by Windows 10 although a normal user (this includes PC's) has very limited knowledge on how to do that.
It's not a great tactic at all, it's just business. What you are saying is nothing new. Pretty much all companies will, at some point or another, change the narrative to paint their situation in a more appealing light to their investors. Sony's done it, Nintendo's done it, Sega's done it. Hell... even Atari has done it (a few times) so Ms doing it this gen really is no surprise. And those are just the ones i can think of in the gaming industry. Just imagine how many other consumer driven companies outside of gaming have done this.
@darthv72 I agree. It's seems to be business 101 in Capitalism.
Exactly just change the narrative to suit. If sony were being outsold by Ms and Sony starred quoting hours of online play or laps in gt sport sweaty greenberg would be all over twitter since he is just like the fans boys. Over on twitter they are claiming a victory as black pather ultra blu ray is xb is exclusive. Truly sad adults
I thought this was already established? The Xbox One (as much as I love mine) got it's ass handed to it by Sony and soon possibly to be passed by the Switch (which already has sold nearly 20 million units) Microsoft hurt the Xbox at the reveal and it never fully recovered.
Um... because the numbers are embarrassing?
Because they are losing, that's why