Final Fantasy VIII and the beginning of Square's fall

Or how to ruin the theme "love".

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FallenAngel1984180d ago

By saying the beginning of the fall are you implying FFIX is a worse game?

kalkano180d ago

I actually think it is, even though I'd still put 9 (barely) in my top 10 games of all time.

179d ago
solideagle179d ago

I m pretty sure he is not in minority. I didn't like FFIX as well and I have played all FF(s). FF VIII, on the other hand, was pretty good.
1. FF VI
2. FFX

kalkano179d ago

Uh, yeah. Definitely not the minority. Look at polls all across the internet, and the favorites in the series are pretty consistently:

7 > 10 > 6 > 8 > 9

ShadowWolf712178d ago

VII had objectively worse pacing and nowhere near as much character development as IX, but that don't stop polls from wanking it. And it's CERTAINLY better than X in every way.

Not saying much there.

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Godmars290179d ago

It was when plot holes became too noticeable to ignore. From Squall's death to a 3rd party with time powers just showing up to give them up.

solideagle179d ago (Edited 179d ago )

@Godmars: that's the beauty of it. I love when there are conspiracies/theories around stories.
Squall is dead or not?
is Riona the magician from future?
etc etc

Godmars290179d ago

Again, its that plot inconsistencies - lazy writing - in that game's story lead to lazier writing in later games in the franchise.

In many ways in fact, it more that things done in 8-bit didn't translate - at all - to more developed, realistic, graphics yet were still done in the transition.

-Foxtrot179d ago

Not lazy writing at all...more like red herrings and leaving things open to the imagination

Do you think the ending of Inception, that final scene is lazy writing? Course makes you think so people keep talking about just like FF8

Godmars290179d ago

I think having your main character get stabbed through the shoulder then fall thirty plus feet on their head only to wake fully healed in an anti magic prison with all their weapons - able to use magic a scene later - is damn lazy writing. Plot gaps caused by production issues, compromises, that was an ever growing crutch in the franchise even before this game.

No one questions is Aerith is dead or Cloud died before FF7 started. They do ignore that Tifa was apparently killed. And people really wonder how Red 13 had pups as both a male and only known surviving member of his species.

Again, its that there were small plot issues while striving for greater and greater detail that's become the issue. That's how we got FF13 where weapons were literally being pulled out of character's @$$es.

ameliabaz179d ago

Squall was stabbed in the shoulder and fell off a parade float onto his back. Sure, it would hurt, but it was hardly a deadly "30 foot drop into his head".

Sure, FFVIII has some funny writing (e.g. There's no radio communication in the world, but a highly advanced space program exists?) but I never thought the end of Disc one was a plot hole. Edea obviously healed Squall to interrogate him. The dramatic fall from the parade float was nothing more than a dramatic moment to make people hastily throw Disc Two into the tray and find out if Squall survived.

Princess_Pilfer179d ago

He didn't fall 30 feet and didn't fall onto his head.

But lets assume he did both of those things, just for the sake of argument. They would probably kill a normal human. Squall can use his renzokouken to tackle flying giants and leap well over 30 fete into the air. He's not a normal human. He's JRPG/Anime human (aka, super human.)

Further, healing magic exists. It's powers obviously aren't limitless, but it's *perfectly* reasonable to assume that he was quite literally healed by magic.

(Ps, you the key word in "the only known survivor" for the purposes of reproduction is *known.* Just saying)

Godmars290178d ago (Edited 178d ago )

So... People are trying to defend FF8 by dismissing the very plot hole that suggests that he died?

And still, how many times does it need to be said: the small - relatively anyway - narrative issues in earlier games lead to larger - gaping - ones in later series entries. Nevermind how current franchise entries are being sub-divided into their own franchises at this point. Making main story lines pointless or redundant.

Godmars290178d ago

One more time: its not that FF8 has what amounts to minor plot inconsistencies, its that plot inconsistencies have become standard in every later game in the series. Except for FF9. That things happen because they happen, fail to be built upon anything within the context of the game, are explained via outside media, has become Square's go to crutch.

Princess_Pilfer177d ago

He *didn't* apparently die. And even if the damage he would have taken would have killed a normal human in the real world, this is a world where humans leap several stories, have healing magic, tackle giant dragons, ect, so that it would have killed a normal human in the real world means essentially nothing.

Those other complaints *aren't valid criticism of FF8*, they're of the 13 trilogy and 15. And I'm pretty sure you're nostalgia blind, because "this thing happens because it happens" has been a recurring thing all the way back to FF4. (the earliest I've played.) And in JRPGs in general.

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kalkano180d ago

8 was fantastic, and X-2 was the beginning of Square's fall.

Shiken179d ago

Yeah 8 was not that bad. IX was great, X was great, and XIV A Realm Reborn is great for an MMO. Honestly X-2, the XIII trilogy, and to a lesser extent XV is where they have faltered if you ask me.

Princess_Pilfer179d ago

X-2 had good themes and a fantastic battle system. The actual delivery of the story needed some work (which could also be said of FF10 because Tidus is supposed to be sympathetic and he's the least likable person ever concieved by mankind.)

It's really just the 13 trillogy that's bad, though 15 messing up it's story so hard (like, it's actually incomprehensible without a bunch of prior knowledge and sketchy even then) in a story focused series is a pretty big no-no. But for some reason people really like it's discount Dragon's Dogma combat so it's getting a pass.

Let's not pretend all the old FFs are great either though. Do you remember what 2 or 5 are about? I don't.

Shiken178d ago

Yeah, I did like the job/battle system in X-2. It just did not click to me story and exploration wise.

Never played 2 or 5. I played IV, VI, VII, VIII, IX, X, X-2, XI, XIV, XIII 1 and 2, and XV.

Rippcity179d ago (Edited 179d ago )

8 is probably my favorite FF game just for nostalgia purposes (and the gunblades of course!) but I agree, X-2 was definitely the beginning of the end. Although, I do have to admit the battle system X-2 had was pretty fantastic, but the game itself (story, characters, etc...) was trash. And it's a damn shame that they are so focused on their AAA titles being ARPGs now. I'm literally dreading them remaking FF7 if only for the fact that it won't be turn based 😔

Godmars290179d ago

Eight wasn't bad, it just had major narrative issues which were ignored or otherwise went un-criticized. That lead to further narrative issues till X-2.

instantstupor179d ago (Edited 179d ago )

I like both VIII AND X-2. I didn't really love the story of X-2, but I didn't hate it. I actually thought the active battle system and Garment Grid was an interesting and fun set of systems. And as divisive as XII was, it is probably my favorite, followed closely by VIII and X. I didn't like the XIII series due to the fact the characters were terrible and also what in the hell was even going on? But I didn't actually hate the battle system. XV had the makings of a great game, but that story really fell apart, especially in the latter half.

There's a lot to still like about Square. I'd categorize them as having a lot of missteps and stumbles - some more egregious than others - but I don't see them as having truly fallen quite yet.

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DarkKaine179d ago (Edited 179d ago )

Tbh, Square's fall started with X-2, not VIII.

179d ago
akuarius87179d ago

Of all Final Fantasy games, 8th was the one i enjoyed the least, but it wasnt a bad game. About FF9, i think it was a really good game, classic stuff and more easy to understand mechanics. Then FFX wich is a really good game, ffxi was stupid, 12 was a great game, 13 was a meehhhh in the series, 14 got everything ok that wasnt ok in 11 and 15 is a fantastic game even with all the problems it has. I dont think it was the fall of the series after 8, it has its ups and downs.

zelent179d ago

This is far from true. Square's fall started with X-2. FFIX and FFX are among the best of the series.

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