Loot boxes are known for having an addictive nature. Experts online have already pointed out that the mechanics they follow are very similar to the ones casinos around the world use. The thrill of not knowing what comes next keeps people paying.
the world will be better place without lootboxes.
agreed I'm not even sure how this is a serious question
Certainly not needed in AAA games that have collector editions, DLC and season passes besides.
Certainly not wanted but whether they are needed or not, only time will tell.
No. Not needed in SP titles when tailored to effect progression. MP arena themed games when they can effect outcomes. Make them P2W.
Not. needed. ever. This is why developers and publishers nickel and dime gamers with everything under the sun (DLC, $70/80/90/100 editions at the start, loot boxes, microtransactions, etc.). Development costs generally have not gone up, yet the industry keeps growing, and we pay $40-60 A GAMER ALREADY. Why is this such a hard concept to fathom? Why do people want us to have to pay $100+ just to possibly get all the content? They get enough money already AND get more money than pretty much any major media/entertainment field per copy sold.
Loot boxes aren't actually bad, it's when you are asked to pay for them with real money, that is when they are bad. We have all kinds of different types of loot boxes in games for years, they only suck now because we are being asked to pay for them with real money.
Well to be honest most loot boxes can be purchased using some sort of in-game currency that's built up in the game in the first place.
Fk lootboxes /thread
Loot boxes aren't gone and they probably won't be going anywhere anytime soon. I also don't agree with having the government regulate games, because it may start with loot boxes but could easily transfer to many other things as we have seen with Trump lately.
(1) They're not gone, at least not yet. (2) If they were gone, it would be a very good thing--awesome, in fact, worthy of champagne and confetti.
You know a lot of people are going to jump on yes on the matter an while I am fully against micro transactions and have never paid for it, I do worry of what will take it's place, as bad as these things are I worry about how much worse it could get without them
Yeah, that's what people tend to forget, lost income has to be replaced by something else and am not too sure the alternatives will be better...
Gaming as a service has proven its value and will likely become more predominant.
“Experts online have already pointed out that the mechanics they follow are very similar to the ones casinos around the world use. The thrill of not knowing what comes next keeps people paying.” Who are these experts lol? Which mechanics? If that’s their conclusion then I would take it with a grain of salt. That’s the worst excuse I have ever heard. The thrill of not knowing what comes next can be applied to anything, that’s not a real answer. It’s human nature to seek the unknown. We all seek adventure and knowledge at the expense of our security because we are not happy with what we already know and already experience. It’s just how our brains work. If it’s predatory to appeal to human nature then what isn’t? Being a conformist robot lol? It’s ok to do what I say, everything else is a disorder lol. I agree with the article though for the most part. Do we really want regulation from supposed experts that use vague explanations like this to get their foot in the door? Why anyone want that is beyond me.. A solution to a problem that creates more problems.
If it's predatory to appeal to human nature, then other vices can be taken with a grain of salt as well. Despite the beauty in hearing that people should be free to do what they want, there are just some things that need to be regulated to protect common folk. The predatory nature of loot boxes is one of them. It's too much, and gaming companies have abused this money-making gimmick one too many times. Ultimately, there's too many surfaces to cover with the pros and cons of what you said. What's okay and what isn't? That's something we can only decide for ourselves. But yeah, you have a point in the last part. People are so desperate to get rid of loot boxes that they'll gladly accept anybody coming in claiming to have a solution. This might just invite more problems at the door.
“Despite the beauty in hearing that people should be free to do what they want, there are just some things that need to be regulated to protect common folk. The predatory nature of loot boxes is one of them.” How though? What kind of regulation? Are we talking bans? That’s not regulation, that’s illegal (at least in the USA). If you mean protections then from what exactly? Age restrictions, odds guarantees? I don’t see what the problem is exactly other than people who don’t buy them just not liking them lol. When I think of “predatory” I think of Bernie Madoff and Ponzi scheme type of things. Real scams that take advantage of people. I don’t see anything particularly evil or illegal about loot boxes. Saying “the unknown drives people to spend more” is not abuse and not entirely accurate in this context, I believe. The hobbyist gamers like you and me are not buying these things. The casuals that buy loot boxes buy maybe 2 games a year. Let’s say 120 for 2 games and 80 in loose change on loot boxes. We spend way more than 200 dollars a year in games and yet we can’t compete with these people in terms of spending. Thats the point of microtransactions, a lot of people paying a little opposed to the relatively few of us who spend thousands a year on many diverse games, consoles and upgrades. That’s why Microsoft is predicting a profit on their 10 dollar game pass. Instead of these casuals spending 120 dollars on 2 games (plus MTs) they will give it to Microsoft instead which is a great deal imo. They are stealing the casuals and the hobbyists. “It's too much, and gaming companies have abused this money-making gimmick one too many times. Ultimately, there's too many surfaces to cover with the pros and cons of what you said. What's okay and what isn't? That's something we can only decide for ourselves.” Abused how though? By being successful and making money? It’s not Madoff level abuse so what are we talking about exactly? I agree that this is on us to regulate ourselves and the content we buy. But in the end we have to realize the hobbyist gamer cannot compete with casual cash. It’s not our own little personal industry anymore, it destroys other media in terms of sheer profits and usage. But that doesn’t mean everything is lost. There are games that are wildly successful on the AA budget like nioh, persona, nier, kingdom come. There are at least 4 million hobbyist gamers and that’s enough to prop up solid innovation. These are our bread and butter now because these developers cater to the hobbyist. No amount of regulation would drive AAA gaming back to the hobbyist gamer. These kinds of things can’t be forced by law. We are not their bread and butter anymore and we are not protecting casuals by taking away their goodies. They save much more by only playing 2 games a year, they don’t need protecting. That’s just my opinion and curiosity though.
What kind of regulation, you mean? I can think of more than a few ways. What comes to my mind first is China's policy for Overwatch to display the percentage of probability a player can get by paying for loot boxes. That way, players at least know if they want to gamble for something they may or may not even get. Truth be told, I don't think I can properly explain why loot boxes are a gambling scheme. Take a look at Game Theory's analysis on the subject on what tactics loot boxes use that make them similar to gambling at casinos. It's a lot more educational and entertaining than coming from me. Regardless, I've used the word "abuse" in my reply because that's how I see it. Companies have the gall to charge full price for a game, and then go around charging more and more for what should be basic features. They want to sell something to their player base? Fine. At least give us what we actually want to buy instead of having it revolve around chance. Why can't they do that? Because it's more profitable to give people a mechanic that they can throw money into when they don't get what they want. They know this, and take advantage of it. And like sheep, people keep throwing their money at it. It sends a signal to gaming industries that it's okay for them to put in minimal effort for higher cash-in. How's that not taking advantage of people? Even if it's not a certain level of abuse, as you call it, that's still abuse on their part. Yes, it's profitable for them. But is it good for our part? No. The only thing we can do is call them out on it for this kind of shrewd practice. We keep getting half a game with microtransactions, DLCs, and Season Passes and then go on to complain about it. Why should loot boxes be given a free pass? That aside, I'm curious to see your stance on the subject. I'd rather loot boxes be gone for good, but I'm willing to just flat out ignore them provided they don't interfere with actual gameplay. You've said a lot of things, but I don't know whether or not you find them distasteful. Usually, when I hear a game has loot boxes, I pass up and avoid it like the plague. Truth be told, I think that this issue rely's more on the fact that loot boxes have gotten on people's nerves and they want it gone out of spite. They don't have to purchase the game. They don't have to buy loot boxes. It's just annoying seeing companies use it time and time and again to get more cash at a much lesser effort. If gaming companies aren't going to put that much effort into making a good game and instead use loot boxes to rack in the profit, what are the odds that's going to be a good game in the first place?
“What comes to my mind first is China's policy for Overwatch to display the percentage of probability a player can get by paying for loot boxes.” That’s reasonable but I don’t know how much of a difference it would make. I would prefer a private industry organization like the ESRB implement this rather than the government though. We both can agree that it would be the foot in the door for more unwelcome problems. “Truth be told, I don't think I can properly explain why loot boxes are a gambling scheme.” Me neither lol. Casinos use the same tactics any other businesses use. The only difference is that it’s made for adults. There could be something in loot boxes that affects the psyche of small children with no concept of money yet. I would consider it reasonable to put games with loot boxes in a T for Teen slot automatically in the ESRB ratings but that ultimately is the fault of the parents imo. “ I've used the word "abuse" in my reply because that's how I see it. Companies have the gall to charge full price for a game, and then go around charging more” That’s fine I was just asking. I can agree with all of that. I have been disappointed by many games and I have stopped buying from certain companies all together. They did not feel my absence lol. Self regulation is the only real answer. There are still plenty of games and developers for me to support. Fight it if you want to fight it but I don’t see any way to victory. Unless one day casuals just decide they don’t like gaming anymore and AAA is forced to go back to their roots. “At least give us what we actually want to buy instead of having it revolve around chance. Why can't they do that?” Another reasonable solution but it’s not something we want the government to force even if they had the power to do so. I think the upcoming GDC is the perfect place to address issues like this. Try a real discussion like this instead of lashing out. “How's that not taking advantage of people?” Because that’s assuming the people buying these things were tricked into buying them. There is some sort of manipulation in place driving these forces. I don’t think they are, I think they just like MTS lol. The “2 billion dollars in a year” candy crush gamers don’t think about games like you and I do. The progression of technology, design, etc. They could not care less. “Yes, it's profitable for them. But is it good for our part? No. The only thing we can do is call them out on it” We can call out whoever we want but I don’t think it makes a difference. We have been complaining about season passes, dlc and everything for a long time lol. It hasn’t changed anything. People buy the stuff, how do you stop that? “I'm curious to see your stance on the subject. I'd rather loot boxes be gone for good, but I'm willing to just flat out ignore them provided they don't interfere with actual gameplay.” I echo your sentiment almost exactly. I don’t mind loot boxes as long as they are earned in game playing normally. I don’t aim for them or a specific item but if it happens I’ll open it lol. I agree with the rest of your post as well. People want them gone so bad it seems like they willing to do anything to get rid of them. That’s anti-productive and ultimately self-destructive imo. I would just say support the developers that are catering to the hobbyists. Jack Tretton just announced he’s heading a new organization to help AA indies with funds, advice, etc. AA indie is the only real answer for high quality innovation imo.
You know something? This conversation has just given me an idea. There is a way the government can help without technically "regulating" loot boxes. Why not tax games that use loot boxes? This has actually been discussed in the past since it's a major profit, governments around the world should at least get in some of the money. Companies might raise prices on microtransactions and loot boxes because of this and casual gamers will think twice about spending more of their money for a more expensive transaction. This would do well to discourage loot box practices. With this, proper authorities aren't technically controlling anything. They're just taking in part of the profit. There's actually been talk going around regarding whether or not "violent" video games are going to be taxed 10% higher than average. Why not transfer that instead to games that have loot boxes you need to pay actual money for? Gaming companies might think it's better not to include it if they're going to be taxed higher. Regardless of whether or not it's tricking people, I still say it's taking advantage. Companies know that people are going to pay for this. While it's technically not tricking them in any way, they do take advantage by forcing people to pay for something they want only to get a chance percentage of getting what they actually want, meaning they have to pay again and again till they get it. And no, I don't mean forcing in a way that pictures a gun held up to people's heads. I mean that they technically lock virtual items behind a pay screen that you just have to keep paying if you want it. You want the want a particular item? Too bad! You have to pay $3 for a chance that you may or may not get it. It's a cheap tactic designed to have people keep paying and paying for a steady amount of time. That's what it is. They take advantage of the fact that you don't have control. Personally, I don't mind microtransactions, as in DLC and Expansions. Take CD Projekt Red for example. They ask for a fair price for a quality product. They don't lock 80% of a game behind a pay wall of a game you already paid for. If the product is worth the price, then sure, I wouldn't mind making the transaction. I just don't see how loot boxes can ever have its own place in the gaming industry like this. I agree with you that this is something that people are rushing and this should be given some more thought. A few random posts around the net isn't going to change anything. But damn if it doesn't feel good to let it out. EA sense of "pride and accomplishment" after their Battlefront fiasco really rubbed everyone the wrong way. And I think it's affected loot boxes as a whole. Thanks for the input. I guess I wasn't quite aware of a few things till you mentioned them. All this time I talked about regulations but have no idea what those regulations should be composed of. I just completely left that for someone else to decide for me.
“Why not tax games that use loot boxes? This has actually been discussed in the past since it's a major profit, governments around the world should at least get some". “violent" video games to be taxed 10% higher than average. Why not transfer that instead to games that have loot boxes you need to pay actual money for?” • imo, that’s the foot in the door. Taxes are regulations especially when it’s a penalty tax. I can’t think of a single penalty tax on goods or services that hasn’t raised dramatically over the years. It doesn’t get rid of things, we don’t stop buying them, it just makes the quality worse and more expensive lol. States can do whatever they want but I don’t agree with that as a federal tax. A country can put in whatever tax they want and deal with the outcomes though. • I currently don’t pay any state or federal tax by buying digitally online and I like it lol. No complaints. I don’t see an adult content tax as a justified tax. I think that’s extortion and an attack on free expression lol. The costs will be put on the consumer. Games cost 80 dollars instead of 60 because Sony is still getting its 60 dollars. We are paying the government, not Sony. We don’t need to pay the government 20 dollars because the game is violent, we know it is lol. You are more than welcome to your opinion as well though, I just disagree. “Companies might raise prices on mts and loot boxes because of this and casual gamers will think twice about spending more of their money for a more expensive transaction. This would do well to discourage loot box practices.” • What if the casuals didn’t think twice and they spent even more money making us even more irrelevant? Now the government is getting rich too, not by creating things but by penalizing things and targeting popular games. I don’t like the government using penalty taxes to force economic, political or cultural outcomes. I think that’s the epitome of why I want them to stay away lol. • If you want a specific item and there is 1 in 1000 chance you will get that item then odds are you are going to play or spend a bit before getting that item. I don’t think the search for a specific item is why people buy them. The only way it makes sense to me is casuals liking MTs because it extends the life of the few games they play. There is always something new to get. Packs with a certain character, weapon, skin and goodies for 5 dollars is a good option to have next to loot boxes. I agree with you, that’s compromising and fair to me. • You don’t have to, we don’t buy them, it’s an option. The people who buy them are more in control than you think, they just have bad taste. Their bad tastes are being taking advantage of, I can agree. • Do you like how CDPR handled the loot boxes in the Gwent stand alone? I think it’s a fair system. It’s free to play of course but I like the odds and guarantees. It over-delivers. I also have no dispute on the value of the witcher 3 content. “Thanks for the input. I just completely left that for someone else to decide for me.” • Hey thank you. It’s always good to ask questions lol. I’m just trying to figure it out too.
A good progression system with unlockables are intimately more rewarding than random crap loot openings. A measurable goal that is impossible with rng rigged in favor of the publisher...
No....prices will undoubtedly increase 10 bucks on a 59.99 game and its more in other countries I am sure....I buy DLC I like for CoD and other games. I don't buy what I don't need or want. I say keep them.
That's a proven myth. The only thing those things fuel is greed. Infinite cash flow is the goal. Battlefront II, for example. If you were to take the 9 mil they sold, take off a whopping 30% for a licensing fee on all platforms (which that's not the rate but w/e) and even assume they spent 200 mil on development and another 100 mil on marketing (also absurd numbers) the total comes to, wait for it... almost $240 mil in pure profit. They make hundreds of millions off these games as-is, they just want -more- cash. On top of that, they stick these things into annual sports franchises which will be outmoded in a year anyways when they launch the next entry and you have to start all over.
Greed?? No, its called making a profit and all companies..ALL companies want their the bottom line to to make as much money as they can on their initial investment for as long as they can. Don't want the item...don't buy it. Wanna protest microtransactions, be my guest. I want the option.
I think Lootboxes and Microsoft is a match in Heaven
Yes, yes it is. If you have to ask, hang your head in shame.
It won't. The nonexistence of Loot boxes is good in any medium, but we also don't need laws to regulate video games more. A law isn't gonna stop a greedy company from finding ways to make more money, hell, it won't even stop loot boxes, they will only change what loot boxes they have so they narrowly fit within the confines of the law.
Yes, no question. If you're paying for progression it should not be a gamble, you should know what you're getting when paying hard cash. That's like going online to buy parts for your PC but instead of just buying the part you have to buy a mystery box with a chance their'd be a better part inside you were actually looking for.
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