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Mario vs. Sonic in 2017: Why Odyssey worked but Sonic Forces failed

Nintendo understands Mario's core mechanical appeal, while Sega keeps trying to push Sonic in directions other than "going fast."

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FallenAngel1984112d ago

Because Nintendo is passionate for their flagship franchise while Sonic Team has become very dispassionate and cynical about theirs

111d ago
PhoenixUp112d ago

“The war between the pudgy Italian plumber and the spikey blue hedgehog continued, decades after it began, with the 2017 release of both Super Mario Odyssey and Sonic Forces.”

What ongoing war? It died 16 years ago when Sega stopped being a hardware manufacturer.

-Foxtrot112d ago

I think what these games show you really is Mario can get away with gimmicks...give him Fludd or a magic hat and it works. Give Sonic a sword, alien wisps, a werewolf form etc and it dosen't work. I think that should tell Sega something...stop trying to be like Mario. Only thing Sonic should have is abolities from the item boxes like faster speed, special shields or short time invincibility.

You want to know why a 3D adventure like Sonic Adventure works...no gimmicks, it was it's own thing.

PhoenixUp112d ago

Wisps didn’t ruin the Sonic experience

-Foxtrot112d ago

No but they were stupid and not needed...I mean yeah that's what Sonic needs, more characters.

PhoenixUp112d ago

They enhanced Sonic’s basic moveset in most cases and weren’t as introsive as the other examples you mentioned.

Other characters would be welcome, but that doesn’t make wisps a terrible idea unto itself.

-Foxtrot112d ago

But the point is they can't help putting something in whether it's small like the wisps or a game changer like the werewolf form.

Sega always feels the need to add something and it's getting annoying. I mean even in Sonic Forces they thought about wasting time on a custom character creator. Who asked for that? I mean seriously? Polishing the game and making it better then it was would have probably been a better option,

PhoenixUp112d ago

I’m specifically talking about the wisps. They weren’t even as egregious as past power ups Sonic’s had in 2D games or the Adventure games.

So no the wisps in particular aren’t an example of bad game design, especially when they were implemented to a nice extent that didn’t dramatically change the gameplay style.

Adding in new things is what most platformers do.

Travis3708111d ago

Wisps and Boosting ruined the games for me.

Teflon02111d ago

I like boosting. I hate wisps though in forces I don't mind seeing the way they're used works fine for the avattar

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Neonridr112d ago

I wouldn't say that Mario relies on gimmicks. Just really, really great gameplay. The root of fun really.

-Foxtrot112d ago

You're making out I'm saying it as a bad thing...I'm not

I'm just saying when they add a feature which COULD be considered a gimmick, it works so well that it's not

Unlike Sonic where when something is added it feels like it is

Neonridr111d ago

@Foxtrot - fair enough, I see what you mean there. Thank you for clarifying.

Outside_ofthe_Box111d ago (Edited 111d ago )

"You want to know why a 3D adventure like Sonic Adventure works"

Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 was the reason I got a Dreamcast.
I haven't played any other Sonic game since those two, but if they haven't done so in the past, I don't get why Sega doesn't just put their focus on expanding the Sonic Adventure series. Just stick with that story-driven/action-adventure Sonic. They can even make it open world. There is a lot they can work with.

gangsta_red111d ago

In all honesty I don't know why Sonic games don't work. What is it that he's doing that's different from what Mario is doing or has done?

Its almost to a point to where Sonic has tried everything in terms of gameplay and design and it just doesn't work.

I think Sega needs to hand the title over to Nintendo's Mario team and see what they can do with the character. One, lets see if they could actually make a game that is well received by gamers and two lets see if there's just any type of bias against Sonic if they just do the same thing that was done before but now it's the greatest game ever.

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DillyDilly111d ago

Perhaps Sega should let Nintendo make Sonic games

SickSinceSix111d ago

They should just let the Sonic Mania devs make future Sonic games instead.

Teflon02111d ago

It took them that long to release mania. I'm not trying to wait Square Enix Long for the next Sonic game. Forces had its problems but it's not bad. Just need to go back to Unleashed and Gen type stages

vj27111d ago

It's because for the past decade Sonic team has just been playing it safe with Sonic ever since unleashed. They did a few things differently here an there but the game was basically copy paste unleashed which isn't bad since the day time levels in unleashed was the fastest Sonic's ever really gone which as a fan its fun an cool but not much you can do besides going left or right and avoiding the occasional obstacles. They need another Sonic adventure game. Forces was a little innovative with it's character customization so kids can have a part to play in the story, I understand the reasoning behind that but still. The unleashed formula needs either an overhaul (mind you I find nothing wrong with it, it's actually quite fun it's just been done to death) or a removal. The whole boost mechanic let that stay but running in a straight line while holding the boost button isn't fun anymore. When it first happened you was like holy shit Sonic is really taking off but now it's just meh, just hold x.

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