Richard at GameSpew: Loot boxes have changed the way games are designed for the worse, but still, I struggle to see how anyone could seriously class them as gambling.
The Battlefront 2 system absolutely is if the contents are random and the chance of winning the big prize is small. To not be gambling games should present a menu of the items and a price for acquiring each item. Take the random aspect away.
It is gambling because you're making a risky bet that buying a loot box will pay off, knowing that they will have minimal returns and you probably won't get the item you want. Although some may consider it not gambling because you are still getting something in return even if it's complete trash. The difference with casino gambling is that you can walk away with absolutely nothing. In the case of loot boxes though you could also argue that getting complete trash = nothing anyway. And there's no way to get your money back. Actually I would call up and say my kid bought these without my permission. Charge back FTW
hmmm, interesting take. so, all casinos need to do to not be clasified as "gambling" is to at least award trash! brilliant! (casinos near near have free drinks all day, everyday. they should do away with that and have the cups as trash awards.)
by definition loot boxes are gambling. There is no way around that. The problem lies in that we, as a society have become to view a lenient stance on the word. When in fact what we say isn't gambling in fact is. I personally think it's somewhat of a gray area and understand both sides of the argument. I've dealt blackjack and poker at a Casino for well over a decade. Just because at Casinos you're wagering money on a game of chance for a monetary return is gambling doesn't make that the only form of gambling. Gambling Defined "noun 1. the activity or practice of playing at a game of chance for money or other stakes. 2. the act or practice of risking the loss of something important by taking a chance or acting recklessly:" Playing at a game of chance for money or other stakes. Key words, chance and other stakes. You are putting up money and playing what is essentially a slot machine, RNG, which determines the outcome. Just because you get something every time doesn't mean it's not gambling. People are buying these for those chance items with low probability. And to further prove this point. The legal definition of gambling "A person engages in gambling if he stakes or risks something of value upon the outcome of a contest of chance or a future contingent event not under his control or influence, upon an agreement or understanding that he or someone else will receive something of value in the event of a certain outcome."
@hellothere have you had the free casino drinks before? they're watered down to nothing and take over 20 minutes to get when you're busy gambling and typically losing well more than what the drink is worth. So yes you're getting trash and waiting a long time for it. And they offer domestic beer which is also trash
Remember folks 85 percent of ALL news 'articles' are PAID FOR.
There are some places which classify gambling as anything that you spend money on(or something of value), and the return is unknown, whether it be a complete loss, a return of value less than you put in, or the return on value is greater than put in. I think lootboxes are a gray area. The return value is kind of subjective, and entirely personal. Some people may consider what they get to be more valuable than someone else does, even though they get the same exact prize for the same price. I suppose the reality is is that we could find anecdotes and allegories which both show it as gambling, and show it not to be gambling. I feel this is more an issue with the definition of gambling by the rule of law, more so than if these are actually a gamble. @hellothere In some states you actually can get around gambling laws by offering a prize of some kind to everyone who plays. Those, "everybody's a winner" type things. In those cases, it's likely that those kinds of things wouldn't be legal in those states without said compensation. Gambling laws in the US can be as varied as they can among other countries in the world. @Seraphim Kudos on discerning the difference between the dictionary and legal sense of the word. I think a lot of people don't look at it that way. What's more pertinent here is the legal definition. While it's easy enough to say it's gambling by the dictionary, it's questionable when looked at on the legal level....and that can vary based on venue.
Here is the definition of gambling: "Gambling is the wagering of money or something of value (referred to as "the stakes") on an event with an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning money or material goods. Gambling thus requires three elements be present: consideration, chance and prize." https://en.wikipedia.org/wi... Yes you can look up the word in a dictionary and you will more or less get the same result. No matter how it's spun "loot boxes" are basically "consideration, chance and prize." This is "gambling" although I am quite sure that some will point out that the prize in the case of loot boxes is immaterial so I will also point to US law. https://definitions.uslegal... (pay attention to the first paragraph). Of course, other countries have their own gambling laws so if you don't live in the US I suggest checking what your countries legal laws are and even these are open to legalize interpretation.
If it's a game of chance (which it is) it's gambling.
"Gambling is the wagering of money or something of value (referred to as "the stakes") on an event with an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning money or material goods." Yes they are. Now delete your useless article.
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Of course they are. You pullbthis handle in a game of slots and you have no idea how the pictures will line up. You open a loot box and you have no idea what's going to come out of them. If you use real world money on a chance of good rewards then it's gambling.
When someone purchases a loot box in a game such as Overwatch then yes, you are correct. It isn't gambling because the purchaser knows up front that the purchase will contain cosmetic items only or in other words, the purchaser knows ahead of time that the purchase will not have any affect on game play whatsoever. The purchaser knows that there is absolutely no advantage to be gained by purchasing the loot box However, in a game like Battlefront 2, that is not the case. In Battlefront 2 there is a chance for an in game advantage. The promise of this potential advantage is like a carrot dangling in front of the rabbit and this is exactly the same perception that a person can have when sitting for hours at a Blackjack table or at slot machine. You can make the argument that not everyone who goes to a casino is there because they are banking on the big payout and that these people are there simply because they enjoy the game of chance and go there with the intent of spending "X" amount of money as a form of entertainment. But I can also make the argument that for every person that you can name looking for entertainment, I can also name someone who is desperate for the payoff. The PERCEPTION of getting that in game advantage is what companies like EA are counting on in order to sell the loot boxes. This is in direct contrast to a company like Bungee who are selling loot boxes because people want eye candy. Yes, both companies hype their loot boxes and create excitement over the idea of the new gun or Christmas outfit but the difference is that I could spend $1,000 on Overwatch loot boxes with you spending $0 and I cannot and will not have any advantage over you if we meet in game. And I know this before I even purchase the game itself. But there is a chance, a perception, that if we exercise the same scenario while playing Battlefront 2, there is a very good chance that I will have an advantage over you. That perception is my reality And that absolutely is gambling
It’s no different than Overwatch. One gives you a chance at cosmetics the other gives you not only a chance at cosmetics, but crafting parts, perks, etc. You trying to justify Overwatch over Battlefront 2 has to be one of the biggest hypocritical rants I’ve ever read on here.
You not understanding what you're reading has to be one of the biggest reasons to increase funding in education
Nawww my comprehension is just fine.
Apparently it isn't
Yea it is.
If loot boxes are gambling then buying a pack of yugioh cards is too. I hate em but its not gambling imo.
You can trade, sell or collect multiples at will. You can't do that with microtransactions. Try again.
When does reselling not make the act of paying for a “chance” to win not gambling? In a sense of you get duplicate cards in BF2 you automatically sell them for credits... so by your definition it’s not gambling. If I sold a used scratch off ticket that I bought does that negate it from being gambling?
I never said it wasn't. I'm pointing out that with card collecting, there is potential value in the stuff you don't want. With micros you can get stuck with shit you will never use and can't resell or trade. The OP said it wasn't gambling, not me.
I'm confused by your argument. Can you even begin to play the game without buying a pack or random set of cards? If you can't, then how is it gambling?
Starter decks were present where you would know exactly what you get and how many cards were in there. But if you buy a pack of cards, you get 7 (I think), and at least one will be uncommon. There is a chance of scoring an ultra or secret rare, though. It reminds me of buying these packs in these games. Where you are promised probably one uncommon card with a chance of getting a legendary item.
Can we please get these moronic retards off N4G. To the person who posted this, why don't you go bend over so EA can ram their corporate **** up you backside.
I think he/she already has
They've already taken that payload...
This debate goes further back then just loot boxes. Before lootboxes were booster packs in any popular TCG. Games like pokemon/Magic the gathering and this trend continues today with the numerous other games out now. Its never been catagorized as gambling. You know why, because they label exactly whats in the packs. You pay an amount and get a number of cards based on a rarity. The illusion of gambling comes from the fact that you want something good from those boxes, and when you dont get it, your view of it becomes warped.
Yep, but there's no way to swap or sell microtransactions. Huge difference.
Then that would only further set it self away from gambling. Cards in a physical game end up having a value on the items you get, thus you would spend $5 to get a card that could end up being $1 - $100. And thats still not considered gambling. Microtransactions and loot boxes that you get, you just get, theres no value on the items. So you spend $5 and you get what you get.
place your money on a complete randon chance of you getting something you want in game with bigger items less likly to turn up....nah dosnt sound like gambling...
i think the writer needs a dictionary and some critical thought. they should also check out the meaning of the word exploitation.
Define gambling and you got your answer. Not that difficult to see it as gambking
There's a lot of sites going on the 'do not touch' list today. Please don't click and read these stories, if you don't, they'll lose their ad revenue and readership. Corporate shills like this have been helping companies brainwash the market for a good few years now. So author, take this message on board... Piss off, we're not buying your lies.
I see that EA PR working overtime. Yes, they are gambling. Especially in SWBF2. That is why it's under investigation.
Yeah keep telling yourself that its not gambling and perhaps your delusion will become reality. Has the author had some "Harvey Weinstein" time with EA or what?
Yes, they are gambling. Nothing can change that.
Star cards are something of value. To some people, getting Luke is just as valuable as money
Who approved this? Its just rambling nonsense about how loot-boxes tick all the criteria to be classed as "gambling", but for some weird reason according to the author, they should not be because......of.......reasons. ....like.....like....ummmm....
Disney making money and getting kids hooked on gambling doesn't look good to me.
these companies intentionally hire people to do studies of how closely they can get this shit to resemble gambling and slot machines in general... bright colors, flashy sounds, rush of dopamine ... shit is very clearly gambling, now go and cash that check from EA or whoever paid you to make this ludicrous article to justify them being giant scum bags for implementing these types of business models and getting away with putting them into games not rated M too :/
That headline is all that needs to be said. Moving on... Oh wait no we’re not, we’re going to continue saying it until we believe it’s true.
You're getting a exchange money for something,imo it's more like shopping.It's not like you're giving your money away & you're not going to get anything back in return like someone does when they're actually gambling.
Gambling is based on paying for an outcome that is based on probability or chance. The problem you have is the legal interpretation of each county and so far gambling in gaming is a very grey area that has never been properly addressed by governments. When some governments start looking into the concept of loot boxes as a form of gambling EA pulled the plug (so to speak) so hoping a potential problem (ie. an updated legal definition) will go away. It must be noted that most governments have some sort legalized gambling which can raise a considerable amount of money via taxation so I very much doubt gambling will be outlawed in its entirety. Of course, there are secular countries where gambling is considered a "sin" and is outlawed.
not gambling? gambling is luck-based right? so i dont see any difference tbh. only that you pay ridiculous amounts of money for 1 try haha. its bad. more and more games do the smartphone game approach
Kind of off topic, but I thought I'd throw out an interesting bit of knowledge since you brought up luck. There was some discussion some time ago in a programming forum I frequented if random number generation(RNG), was actually luck based. Wasn't based on gambling discussion or anything, just some interesting topic stuff that came up. The way RNG works, it's actually very scientific in how it determines it's outcome, as it uses a mathematical algorithm which could consistently be reproduced. Side note: Almost all RNG algorithms are based on a time stamp created at a certain point in the program that creates it. Something that is called the seed. For when the seed is created when initializing the RNG, it will maintain the same seed. When a random number needs to be created, it "rolls" the dice in an algorithm which will randomly pick a number based on the seed, hence making it so said number appears random. But I digress. Technically, if one were capable of actually knowing the seed, and had control on when the outcome was determined(able to run the algorithm at a specific time), then it wouldn't be gambling. Maybe skill based, since you'd be talking about being able to discern something in the millisecond range, and an excessive capability to process a complex mathmatical calculation faster than a computer can, and knowing how long it'll take to actually process in the program. In this case, it'd also depend on if the result was determined when purchased, or when opened, but I imagine they're both determined server side. Anyhow, no real outcome came from the discussion, and for all intents and purposes it's just random to the user, and not really luck or skill. To me, luck would just be in the perception of the outcome.
Yes they are. You go to a casino, pay money for the chance at getting more money, more value. You play a game, pay money for the chance at getting a better item. Since that item has less chances of being unlocked than others then it has more value. Therefore you find yourself paying more money for the chance at getting a better item (more value). & this system encourages continuously paying more for the chance of getting more value. Gambling.
The problem with lootboxes is not that they're gambling, it's that they take advantage of the same addictive tendencies that make for compulsive gambling. I don't see a problem with them, though... AS LONG AS THEY'RE FREE and obtained through in-game effort. When you start charging premium for them, then it becomes pay2win AND worse than gambling, cause as infinitely small as it may be, at least gambling has a chance of return on investment. Digital goods have no real-life benefit at all.
I do agree in principle with most of what you said. Yes, there is no "real life benefits" for digital goods with the exception of ego, however, when you are playing a game "digital goods" such as weapons, protection, buffs etc are essential to even have a chance of completing the game. This has nothing to do with "real life". When I say "ego" I mean as an example a particular set of clothing or skins makes the player feel really good when playing the game.
The reason they put the items in crates or packs is so you keep having to spend more money on the chance of getting the item you want. If you could just pay for exactly what you want maybe it's a couple dollars to get the exact items you want. With cards and packs you could end up spending way more and still never get what you want. Plus they are doing studies on the psychology and addictive nature of creating a game of chance. It's absolutely gambling. I'm not into telling adults what to do but for kids it's a pretty twisted strategy if you think about it. Remember when you were young and you just wanted something so bad and you had to have it and it felt the like the end of the world. That is what these companies are preying on. Sucks to be a parent today and have to deal with all the scummy practices of mobile apps and games which are supposed to be fun not an addicting money sucking piece of crap that enforces compulsive behavior and uses psychology to make more profit not by adding good content that we would be happy to pay for but BS poses and emotes that are worth nothing.
Who really gives a s**t if it's gambling by legal definition? Get your head out of your a**. Pay certain price, for uncertain results = a gamble, and by extension, gambling. The fact "lootboxes are awful" is enough of a statement in itself to reject this garbage.
Loot boxes will soon to be available next to Roulette tables everywhere in Las Vegas. And it's not for gambling, just for decoration.
EA paid some articles with their loot boxes money, lol.
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