In the new Persona 5 artbook, it is revealed that project director Katsura Hashino said "all female characters need to look cute" - and this is a problem.
There are a variety of personality types out there for developers to use.
Ugly feminists should seriously mind their own business and do their own games to catter to their "target audience"(or themselves). #ToxicFemininity
Your comment is more toxic than anything I have heard from them. NO: even if you don't agree with them and they are wrong, they have the RIGHT to have an opinion. That is not toxic. When we overreact like they have some power over us, it becomes a problem. Learn to not blow up when a opposing opinion pops up. I could easily tear this article apart while accepting Beth's right o her opinions.
"they have the RIGHT to have an opinion" Never said that they don't, that's exactly why im all for their right to create whatever THEY want, why should we care if you like to hump rocks or prefer to date black chinnese blind albinos transgender in a wheelchair? just create a good product and peoples will be interested in it if its THAT good to beggin with, if you like to shove cactus up your butt..... then whatever float your boat, just dont try to act virtuous and try to control what others should do or not do in THEIR game because it make you feel more virtuous.(and when i say you,.... it doesnt mean YOU Eonjay, it just a figure of speech) Should we blame florist because they don't sell ugly flowers? Should we make them feel bad because of it? NO, im all for their right to sell ugly flowers that smell like rotten meat if they want to(weird analogy, i know), yet peoples shouldnt alienate peoples who prefer selling beautiful flowers. so now i guess its just a matter of time before this comment is flagged as innaproriated, because you know, its not a beautiful text. #UglyTextDiscrimination
All I see is outrage from both sides. I don't see any real debate. For example, in her peice, she is saying that the devs don't have the freedom to make what they want. She is saying that they don't have what you want them to have. So, just stop there. When you are responding, why can't you respond to her? Why are you responding to an idea of feminism? See my problem. The point isn't about supporting people who like to hump rocks or prefer to date black chinnese blind albinos transgender in a wheelchair. The point is about supporting devs in whatever they want to make. That is something we should all support. She is saying they don't have that. Edit: florist sell flowers I think are ugly. Your analogy is harsh here because no one is going to alienate you for having cute girls in your game other than the people who don't care about that (or don't like it). The point is that you don't have to lose cute girls because others (treads lightly) are in their as well. What is up with this all or nothing mentality. And if you are claiming that this is how some feminists see it then point me in their direction so I can break it down.
The problem is they say their 'opinion' is a dictation, as in what they say has to be obeyed and cannot be objected against.
@ShockUltraslash I mean we both know it bull. I don't even have to believe half the stuff I say lol.
@trumpwonstopcrying i would even dare to say that today feminism stopped to be about equality and is now hijacked by misandry ideology, toxic avenger.
Have you ever heard of a male arguing things like this ? exactly lol. Almost every game has ripped, strong males yet we ain't bitching about it because its a ------->GAME <---------, its not REAL, we don't have to RELATE to it. Its there so we can have FUN, something feminist don't know about.
It's not really a problem if that is what the creator wants. If anyone has a problem, it's the people that takes issue with creational freedom.
Exactly... if this person wants ugly characters, then pick up a pencil and draw the ugliest thing man has ever seen on this quadrant of the universe.
For clarity, she is saying that because its hard to get the female characters, if the devs want them, they HAVE to be beautify or troppy. She is saying quite plainly that they DON"T have creative freedom. While she does claim that things have gotten better she fails to point out that the same thing has happened to male characters. And I am not talking about serialization as this would actually be something different lol. I am saying that both men and women have been regulated to troppy roles in games. This is not a feminist issue.
yeah, i mean, when did we last had a male fat protagonist? the protagonist in AC origins is HEAVILY sexualised, he has a buff body, and you can make him wear nothing but a towel, and no one complains.
@doughnutsfan Exactly! She misses this completely. And lets not pretend that you guys are all a bunch of hot cut dudes. Its fine to say we don't care, but if she wants to make this about girls only, we have to speak up.
@doughnutsfan Mario is a fat italian plumber, getting 'played' by a princess over and over and over for how many years again?
The problem is how easily people are offended by a creator's artistic freedom.
hard to believe I got silver Lexus IS 350 Sedan only from working part time off a pc at home... why not check here............. http://tiny.cc/-online-jobs
You know what else is hard to believe? The legitimacy of that link you posted...
Gamers are obsessed with looks over substance
I prefer to have both, but thats just me. =P
If looks is your preference, substance is secondary
Who ever said I favored one over the other? I said I support creative freedom in my OP. You do realize that works both ways, right?
How is that a problem?? He's a creator, has a viwion and he wants to create fictional females in a certain way. What's wrong with making characters cute?? There is no problem here at all.
This definitely brings up quite a few valid talking points.
No it doesn't. It's telling him not to make his game in his own way. Dude likes cute girls so of course he's gonna use just that. He also has a lineup of what Japan deems as "highly attractive males" but nobody cares to comment on that.
And in your book, all female characters need to be ugly and masculine. I will take their model over yours. And this is coming from someone who used to mock Japanese games/art incessantly. No more.
Well at least your admitting how hypocritical you are. Even if that wasn't your intention. And just for clarity I support creative freedom and disagree with the article.
This all makes sense when people realize that these "articles" are not merely an opinion, rather they are shaming tactics to strong arm developers into supporting their vision hence their takeover of western markets. They have not taken over the Japanese market yet though. She isn't just complaining about Persona, she takes jabs at every game including western games that have attractive female characters like Cortana. Use an ad blocker and skim the actual article, its alot more than the title lets off.
@annoyedgamer It's literally just consumer pressure. There's nothing sinister about it regardless of how you feel about it all. The fact is yes - "feministic" portrayals are becoming more widespread in western media. But this is only happening because companies realise there is profit to be made in it. Ironically, despite many feminists being statists and demanding regulation - their advances here have been made through the free market. Obviously some of these are garbage (GB2016 for example) - but even then I personally believe that the failure of those movies on a creative level, is far more to do with the corporate filmmaking style of Sony pictures than it's female protagonists. Holistically, it has the same problems as say, The Amazing spiderman 2. A good example I think are the women in the Witcher games who despite being sexualised - have complex and nuanced characterisation to back it up with. That's what the characters in Gb 2016 or TAS2 were lacking - female, male or otherwise. Frankly I don't care for representation one way or another. I have no stake in this. What i am bothered about is good writing.
The point is you don't actually believe in creative freedom. How many articles have you complained in when the issue was adding a minority or a gay character? You weren't supporting those artists creative freedoms. You might disagree with this article but you don't actually support creative freedom. Japanese art styles have been the same for years and you admittedly complained about them before. The truth is the only reason your saying this now is because the political right is seen as "championing" this issue so your whole view on it changed. Unlike other people who were supporting artistic freedoms when you were arguing against it. BTW what race do you think would draw the most sympathy for your argument here, Black, Asian or White? Please let us know what race you want to be counted as for this article since it seems to change every time you post. (yes folks annoyed gamer has claimed to be different races several times on this site)
I love how you resort to personal attacks as always. I am mixed Asian and you can see it in my comment history as you have clearly gone through already. How many accounts do you have? You sound strangely like the guy that called me a "Nazi" a while back and your comment history goes back to around the time his account was banned. I only care about Japanese stuff now because I started playing/watching their stuff recently. I did this because all western stuff if all SJW infected. You won't see me making garbage blog sites complaining about other peoples creative decisions because I have better things to do with my limited free time.
If your going to support creative freedom you should support it fully.
You full of crap, your just saying what ever you can to defend yourself at this point. Your just an angry white guy. You first said you were black in discussion about social services while you were trying to say black people shouldn't get services so you basically said I'm black so you should believe me. Then you said you were Asian in an argument where you were claiming minorities were getting special privileges right after the DOJ opened up a case against a school for supposedly not giving space for some Asian people who were qualified. You just lie in order to get your way or "win arguments". And I notice you didn't actually reply to anything I said. You only support this issue because the right would be just fine with exploiting women (not that I think this is a case of exploitation) which is why if this was an issue with an artist who wanted to make a game about inclusion and had a gay character or an minority you would be the one writing an article complaining against it just like this journalist has except your article would be written from the angry right instead of the angry left. Your just a hypocrite and a liar. And as for the person that called you a Nazi, well all i can say is it seems like your an unpopular person and I'm glad other people see through your crap.
If I made a game, I would make all the females look cute too. Anyone who doesn't like it can stick their opinion where the Sun doesn't shine (to quote the author of that article).
Why? Doesn't average looking people matter?
It's his right to create the character the way he wants. If you don't like, just don't buy the game.
Thats pretty racist bro /s But thats where all this liberal/feminazi crazy is going to lead up too lol, gender will be a race soon in the liberal mind because facts and reality have no say, feelings do.
Every creator has the right to design their characters as they see fit for the story they're creating. If they want them all to be cute and/or hot, as in the case of Persona or Growlanser, let them. If they want them to be more realistic and less sexualized, as in the case of Horizon Zero Dawn or Reboot Tomb Raider, let them. If you don't like their products, don't buy them. Imagine the outrage if they redesigned Aloy to be more "kawaii" for the Japanese version of HZD.
True. But personally is a factor too. They'd have to completely recreate the character.
Not a problem at all. It's his artistic vision.
Your part of the problem bro, must be a white male /s
The creator creates what they have in mind. It is not for you to decide if it's "okay."
Ohhhh this is an angry feminist rant. Don't click people, they don't deserve it at all. Stop telling artists how to portray females. If I made a game that had females in it they would look more like what Lara Croft used to look like and I don't care what feminist think. I don't want to look at a fat, ugly, purple hair, pig face thing that feminist would chear for when I play games. (Unless it fits the design). Feminists, here is an idea: If you are not happy with jow games portray woman than get into game design and start making games. Show us how it's done. P.S.: You mocked Quiet from MGSV, shame on you!!!
Yawn... Come back when you complain about the muscular unrealistic male characters in video games. Otherwise STFU
This more of a cultural difference than a design issue. Granted, it's similar to every other issue someone would bring up with design differences between US and Japanese Games.
You are entitled to your opinion, but i disagree 100%.
Hands off my P5 waifus! 😡
@Beth Meadows Cool now write an article about the male counterparts in Persona 5, one which clearly is androgynous (Yusuke Kitagawa) and how progressive the Persona series is when it comes to diverse personalities. Or how the character "Ann Takamaki" is dealing with the issue of being "cute" and "pretty". Sorry but using the Persona series as an example of female issues is poor, considering how much the series deals with actual real life social issues. Katsura Hashino clearly had an idea on how and why female characters are portrayed the way they are.
It´s not okay to depice tham as FAT (like that fat Princess game, remember that "controversey" ..). It´s not okay to sexualize them a la Lara Croft aka no big pointy bwebs. It´s not okay to depict them as male figures, strong fighters like the woman in Ucharted 4. It´s not okay depict them as whore, sexual objects in GTA ... what´s left? Imagine if we already had fotorealism in todays game, with fotoreal showing of genitalia and what not. Can you imagine the outcry? WE DONT WANNA SEE D!CKS! Or metrosexualized dipshits ... now we cant show them as cuties. Then how about we show the true nature of the woman? And her dark sexual secrets/desires ... oh boi, wish i was a developer my game would sell like crap, but it would trigger so many SJW-Feminists and other minorities ... #FUEUPHEMISM
Best developer for female character design is Team Ninja
lol her profile pic says it all.
If that is what the developer wants for their game, then I do not see a problem with it. I just do not care for agendas that developers have.
That one dude in the comment section though... "Your favorite games are all made by the gays! The industry is full of gays, trans, feminists.... Oh, and nearly the entire core industry is comprised of SUPER liberal Democrats." I have never cringed so hard in my life.
Why is that a problem? Male characters are often incredibly muscular and good looking yet that isn't a problem. The creators are free to make whatever they want.
The author brings up good points and game developers should have the creative freedom to create obese ugly male/female characters
Yeah, because we all want to bang fat chicks in Persona 5, amirite guys?!
Oh ffs. There's nothing wrong with this. If you don't like all female characters looking cute, then play a different game. It's actually a lot easier than people think to avoid things that bother you.
Do people not know about Japan's Kawaii culture that's been around since the 1970s? How ignorant because I see western society constantly bad mouth japanese ideology on the daily without any research being done. Just literal ignorance of the culture yet again.
You don't see anyone call the fat land lady in devil is a part timer "Best Girl". My 2 cents.
Why don't I see anyone complaining how Superheroes (or game heroes) are all buffed up?
Healthy people should look cute and scary. Cute in the sense of a little mis proportional here and there, and scary in the sense of visually powerful & alert to their environment.
The author's attitude and perspective is the only problem here. The developer is creating a game that the protagonist has the option to romance various female characters. Most people given the opportunity would like to be with someone they find attractive--cute. There are societal norms of what is likely considered cute and what isn't. Forcing or complaining to a developer isn't going to change those tendencies, though they may change slowly over time. The author is just trying to assign blame to others for the insecurities of her and others that may not easily fit into that societal standard and rather than try to improve their own lot by making themselves a more attractive person (not necessarily only physically), they point fingers. The girls in Persona vary in personality and attitude, internal strengths, weaknesses and goals. The author would be better served in calling attention to the work ethic of Makoto or the strength of Haru if she wants to talk about something worthwhile. By the way, I already don't find Tae that cute, I don't like how she dresses--but she is a great doctor!
I think I lost a few brain cells reading this piece of shit.
Lucky you. This article gave me cancer.
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