Sony Executives talk about the shift of the business model from hardware units to monthly active users, and the possible exploration of microtransactions.
So are they going to stop reporting units sold or report both?? Please don't ruin the developers good work with badly implemented DLC. Especially the single player stuff!
Yeah, I agree. Like my previous comments , microtransaction is only work in Free to Play game. Just don't put it in AAA games. Hopefully, Sony report both Hardware and Software.
They are already in place in their AAA games, what are you talking about? You can buy items in Uncharted like pirate hats. One of the worst offenders ever was Little Big Planet and all the items you could buy. @ninsigma "So are they going to stop reporting units sold or report both?? Please don't ruin the developers good work with badly implemented DLC. Especially the single player stuff!" Those NPD numbers stop being public because of Sony last generation. You guys think they are always transparent? We still don't have any idea how well Playstation Now is doing, how many people use that per month? http://controversy.typepad....
SOE, the former Free to Play developers that made games like Planetside, are sold off to another company by Sony. So what other type of games does Sony make besides games like TLOU 2 and GOW4? It is coming people, and I surely hope the people that hold their own standard on their opinion of MC in games will feel the same for Sony when that time comes . I, myself have no issue with it if it doesn't affect gameplay and are optional.
You can buy pirate hats, that add nothing to the game, or you can get them simply by playing the game. I think I have all pirate hats unlocked, and not a single one equipped.
Nopeace_walker- your part of the problem. MT always effect game play and more and more are not optional. You know why people love that word or phrase "optional" because it alloes them to say "oh well the free market blah blah blah" when all they really mean is "we know people are lazy and stupid and casuals will just fork over money for stuff". Look at Forza, Shadow of War hell Ac orginis. In AC Origins its an unlockable Skill, in the damn skill tree, to purchase crafting materials from venders and unlockable skill to use a vender how a vender has always been used before, then venders carry very small amounts of the crafting materials requiring you to travel across the map, which is very big, to get enough to upgrade you health, arrow ammo and other things or you can spend 20$ on a "time saver" to get enough to max out you gear. Thats BS. Your additude leads to an eventual colapse of the gaming industry or market as people will get tired of paying 60$ then getting nickled an dimed to death while paying. Its so bad now there are advertizements in the damn game menus for these game telling you "hey we have MT".
@Knushwood Yeah and the majority of other MT's are optional also and only cosmetic, but that doesn't stop people from bitching about them.
Of course they didn't say that "Hardware sales are still important", I don't see anything that throws this question up.
I can understand why any company that has services to offer would want to look at MAU's. It's a good metric for measuring potential. However, selling more hardware will also increase MAU's, particularly for a company like Sony which doesn't have as many outlets to bolster their numbers like MS does in Windows. As far as MT go, it's not like it's new ground for Sony. They've had them in quite a few of their games to date. The important thing is how they're implemented, and overall, I don't feel that Sony exploits MT as much as some of the other publishers do, and if they kept doing what they're already doing, I don't really see the problem. Overall, all I care about is if Sony keeps providing me with the kind of content that I already get on the system. If they shift to more GaaS to push this shift more, then I'll be upset and say something then. It's hard to say if they're doing that now, because they only have one major game right now which I consider to be a GaaS type game, and that's GT:S.
Yes yes, that's it. Follow Microsoft into the abyss. I hear it is wonderful. Give it another ~20 years and we'll start hearing how Nintendo are beginning to track monthly active users over hardware sales as well.
Like my previous comments, every publishers like Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo and others will follow the suit.
Hardware sales are important to fans that want to feel better about their purchase. Active users generate more profit and is the metric platform holders use to better measure success since it’s a stream of constant revenue.
@Death Hardware sales are very important, too. But I'm just concerned about Sony maybe ignores it in the future which I'm not okay with it.
Of course hardware is important to Sony. What else will their "Active Users" be playing on? PSNow? I don't think Sony are going to throw all their eggs in that basket just yet so you've got nothing to worry about. By the same logic, you can understand why hardware might be a less important metric to Microsoft.
TankCrossing, you're missing the point. If active users are the only metric they go by, then the hardware gets marginalized. If the service side of the business trumps the hardware side, then they start doing things real gamers don't want, like publishing on other platforms, including mobile, or streaming games to any number of devices, and charging you piecemeal for every little thing they can--games as a service. *Shudder* The PS4, PS5 etc won't be their main focus anymore.
@Cobra they aren't gonna take down the walls around the playsration garden. Not unless the money they'd make would be greater than the money they make as a platform holder, taking their cut of everything published to the platform.
If I may interject. Hardware sales are no longer a proper way to measure the actual number of people who game. I will explain it like this. Since the last few generations it has become rather popular to double and triple dip when it comes to the hardware. Either people want the newer design or they are replacing a unit that has issues or they just want to have a 2nd or 3rd in the house (one for them, one for the kids). They have to look at game sales and MAU's to understand the size of the user base (and even that is not 100% accurate). I'm pretty sure everyone knows this but hardware is usually sold at a loss because the real $$ makes is from software (and now GaaS and MT's and subscriptions)
Console hardware hasn't been sold at a loss for at least a decade, and multi-console owners/homes is nothing new really. Active (online) users is a better indication of the more lucrative and valuable audience, and the tools to measure it are there so it it makes sense to track the metric they care about.
Yes we all know Microsoft is the only company that implemented microtransactions when other company's have been doing this for years especially on the mobile side of gaming. Microsoft is to blame for everything negative in gaming. Sony and Nintendo has never used microtransactions or online passes in their games.
I think people don't understand you are being sarcastic or you be getting barraged with down votes because, people actually believe that the evil of everything has it origins at Microsoft.
Is it too early to say "fuck Kodera-san"? I already bought the god damn game I don't want to pay more to unlock the rest of it!
it's because hardware sales do not bring profit. Monthly active users say more about profitability than hardware sales. Microsoft is a business it was just a business decision, A smart one seeing that Sony Is going to do the same now. People on N4G think they know business better than these companies.
I'm sure they all track it in some way. In fact, it's a regularly published metric within their quarterly publisher reports which give out stats like software sold, number of active users, number of online user, engagement numbers, and tons of other metrics which may be used by publishers to decide to release a game on the system. It's important information for publishers. The problem comes in when the MAU is the primary and only metric which seems to be focused on, and many of the services and games seem to be centered around increasing those numbers by making software which is directly related to increasing said numbers, as opposed to making software which just lets them grow more naturally by increasing user base by providing more for more people. I felt MS shift to MAU's was more due to the fact they were trying to make Windows into a service over an OS. XBL helped bolster those numbers, and eventually, making XBL part of windows bolsters XBL numbers thus potential revenue. Ultimately, it all comes down to what happens to the software as a whole.
Let's see how this turns out, i really like the House approach he seemed like a very kind and soft guy.
House is the type of guy you don't really care for when he's there but miss once he's gone and someone worse takes his place.
Yes. And if this story isn't just a one-off fluke, that's exactly what I fear may have happened.
I feared they would do this in a matter of time just like they followed MS with MP paywall. Hopefully they don't include MTs in SP games. maybe Nintendo is getting back up for a reason...maybe it is time to go back to them. I am not supporting MTs from anyone
I could understand the following the paywall because that was shown to be successful, and make a ton of profit. So far, services, which is really the only reason to track MAU to be able to gauge potential as well as just make more money because the more you have the more chance to make money, has not really been shown to be successful to gaming. Overall, It's easy to track software sales and pure revenue from what services they do have, and ultimately, that's going to be the most important. but when a company talks about shifting focus to MAU's, it implies that they're going to focus on ways to increase that, which may cause concern that they're going to start doing things which push this idea beyond simply providing what people have come to expect from them. I can understand why that is concerning, however, at the present time, there isn't a whole lot there to show that Sony is doing something different from what we've come to expect from them, so it's hard to have some knee-jerk reaction like when MS says SP games have less impact when the last two big games they're marketing are both GaaS type games.
@rainslacker "I can understand why that is concerning, however, at the present time, there isn't a whole lot there to show that Sony is doing something different from what we've come to expect from them, so it's hard to have some knee-jerk reaction like when MS says SP games have less impact when the last two big games they're marketing are both GaaS type games." Because Sony is not marketing CoD, Destiny and Battlefront. Smdh. Never lose you chance to throw some rocks at MS and sugarcoating Sony´s crap even when you know you´re screw! Go on! Suck it up! Sony is pleased.
Well time to hit them where it hurts...used games here I come.
Been doing that since the start of this gen. Regardless of Sony or MS's policies, I love gaming but paying $80 CAD per game is insane.
As a fellow Canadian, I've come to ignore games in their initial release window. The initial price is a complete joke (especially considering it arguably gives you 3/4 of a game if you're lucky).
That is certainly a good way to push them further along the GaaS path.
Remember at the end of the day they need us (Consumers)to survive.We dont need them.
So Sony are also shifting to Mau’s and looking to implement more MTs or “in-game purchases”. that’s interesting. This would align with the new direction they went with GTsport and i could see them adding MTs to it to provide free DLC and keep the userbase up....how deep does the rabbit hole go?
Except GT Sport doesn't have micro transactions so try again.
which is why i suggested they could possibly add them....
Not one bit. It is a dirty media spin on the topic. When talking about revenue, microtransactions are only available digitally. Sony was talking about making psplus more attractive. They were stating data that was collected on how users use the ps store currently
“Therefore, according to Yoshida-san, the axis is shifting from hardware to user base. On top of that, after the purchase of a game, users can purchase items or content within the game itself, and the proportion of those sales is increasing.” “We also hear that third-party sales of in-game items and content is very significant for Sony as well. On the first-party side, compared to other companies, the proportion for Sony of in-game sales is still relatively low, but under Kodera-san’s leadership there will be “appropriate exploration and decisions taken in the future.”” i don’t see sensationalism in that
@Kirbwalker The whole conversation is about psplus and making it more attractive to consumers to sign up. Your quotes are the reasons they see the benefits and where the money is going from consumers to the digital purchases. THe point of the conversation is what can Sony do to better entice the subscription to its players. If you want to downplay what i am saying, quote Sony on the focus of mt.
You have to read between the lines krib. Sony are probably talking about... Er... Donating to charity. A charity that campaigns for the happiness of Playstation fans. Yeah, that's it.
So Sony are also shifting to Mau’s http://www.pushsquare.com/n... "This would align with the new direction they went with GTsport and i could see them adding MTs" https://www.gtplanet.net/gt...
Sigh... Sony follow that crap and ppl will leave to play classics oh well thank god I got GCN.
brother why are people acting like this is something new when TLoU and Uncharted already have Microtransactions?
Because nii san it's going to be in campaign of SP games!!
They didn't have single player microtransactions
lol Jesus.... "gaming" just keeps getting better and better. Thank god I don't have to deal with this bulls**t. F**k all "AAA" bullcrap.
Hmm Sony i think your best course of action when thinking about this is to.. TREAD LIGHTLY
Yes, very very lighty.. I for one will not accept it. Then it will become used games for the exclusives and full PC for the rest. A big F-u for MT
I agree Dude if they are doing that I'm on the same path as you. Don't know why they would go the MS route I can't it.
Explore MT's by doing a survey and see the overwhelming negative response you will get Sony.
Yeah, I think it's blown out of proportion as well from an opinion peace from a quote “appropriate exploration and decisions taken in the future.” That means research and see what works and what doesn't.
WTF??? Why would they be doing this??? So they can be like MS? It makes no sense for them to change face and become shady about sales for hardware especially when they are doing so well. I miss Andrew House already this new guy might be full of shit like Phil and Co. and is trying to infect Sony with mau's and MT in games......the success of PS4 will be tarnished big time by this crap if it happens. What is wrong with being proud of hardware sales and not forcing micro transactions down people's throats??? This shit has me worried cuz that's how everything good comes to an end when crap like this suddenly for no reason just starts happening cuz some greedy asshat decided it was what he felt was right for him to line his pockets with.......
If Sony start doing this micro transaction BS and loot boxes in their first party titles. I will start buying their games second hand like I have started to do with EA and Ubisoft. If it gets to the point where games become pay to win and me buying second hand becomes a bit pointless. Then ill simply quit gaming.
they already have been doing that, see the last of us, uncharted 4 to name 2 big ones the last of us was even seen as pay to win by some
Uncharted 4 I believe was just hats and cosmetics? Don't get me wrong I don't agree with them however those hats didn't effect the game or gave players an advantage. Last of us I believe they released a weapon pack. That everyone could use without buying. However, couldn't include them in custom sets unless you bought the packs? That is more scummy and I hope they don't do such things again. However, If it comes to a point where say in the last of us 2. You have to scavenge for items to craft a medkit. But they give you an option to pay real money to buy a medkit or buy the materials to craft a medkit. Then am out that is BS. This is why am buying Assassin'c Creed Origins second hand. You can buy in game currency for real money. That is just BS and I don't support it at all.
". . . according to Yoshida-san, the axis is shifting from hardware to user base. "On top of that, after the purchase of a game, users can purchase items or content within the game itself, and the proportion of those sales is increasing." Was that a Sony story, or a Microsoft story, because it sure sounds like Microsoft, or EA. I've been fearing this. At first, it seemed that Sony was going to hold the line against the shenanigans from the Western console businesses. Sony was responsible for Microsoft backpedaling on their initial anticonsumer plans for the Xbox One, after all. But I guess the lure of easy cash will eventually affect any publicly held corporation. This is even more likely when there's a changing of the guard, and new leadership itching to prove itself with profitability takes over. Hmm. Don't really know for sure yet. Let's see where this goes. Hopefully it all works out for the best, because I'd hate to lose both of these console makers in my future.
Uh oh...hope this is just a plan and won’t become reality.
Time for those God of War lootboxes
Sony don't screw up your good will with your Sony fans. MT's in full payable games needs a fine balancing act if it is going to be accepted, if it's pay to win then count me out and I'll head else where.
Misleading headline. They never talked about Micro-transaction. Just possible shift on business strategy. This usually happens, if there's a key role changed in the company. I can't believed Dualshockers would do this. Talk about Fake News.
"On top of that, after the purchase of a game, users can purchase items or content within the game itself, and the proportion of those sales is increasing." "We also hear that third-party sales of in-game items and content is very significant for Sony as well. On the first-party side, compared to other companies, the proportion for Sony of in-game sales is still relatively low, but under Kodera-san’s leadership there will be “appropriate exploration and decisions taken in the future.”" Those "in game items", yeah those are micro transactions.
"On top of that, after the purchase of a game, users can purchase items or content within the game itself, and the proportion of those sales is increasing." Possible DLC and In-game *standard* multi-player content. "We also hear that third-party sales of in-game items and content is very significant for Sony as well. On the first-party side, compared to other companies, the proportion for Sony of in-game sales is still relatively low, but under Kodera-san’s leadership there will be “appropriate exploration and decisions taken in the future.”" More like a Rumor rather than actual facts.
Damage control. LoL
"Possible DLC and In-game *standard* multi-player content. " #Banana We all know what this is because we have seen countless games add content and no one talks about DLC like this. You are just in denial.
I for one am not on board. You can take that MT, GaaS crap and stick it where the sun don't shine. I said this a few months back and it seems to be coming true, but games as a service taking over is probably what will drive me out of gaming.
OOOOH MICROTRANSACTIONS I CAN'T WAIT!!!!! Thanks Sony! I generally like your products but feel they could suck more, so this is a step in the right direction.
Make all dlc free,don't make us grind for unlocks and all make all MTS pure cosmetics..