Are loot boxes gambling?

Eurogamer: Sin City is the global capital of gambling. Casinos with colourful chips, well-postured croupiers and automaton pensioners plugged into slot machines. At first glance it might not seem sinister, but strip back the glamour and Las Vegas paints a sad picture - its denizens cogs in a billion-dollar machine fuelled by potentially addictive gaming. The novelty of the place can hide its true intentions.

[UltraNova]

If this article isnt a super analytical, fact based piece on a current gaming issue then I dont know what it is.

It even ends with the usual scientific way of concluding that more research/facts are needed.

[stuna1]

Loot Boxes is just like shooting craps and Blackjack! It's all in the luck of the draw or roll of the dice. Which are games of chance with two outcomes, you either crap out/bust or you win.

[CorndogBurglar]

More like slot machines! At least in blackjack there's some amount of skill that goes into it along with the luck of the draw.

I would consider loot boxes gambling, most definitely. I don't see how it could be anything else.

[yomfweeee]

Can you win real money in loot boxes? No? Then it isn't like those things and it isn't gambling.

[ocelot07]

It's even worse. You put money in with zero chance of money coming out.

Slot machine - Just one more pound I know I can win the jackpot.
Loot box - Just one more pound I know I can win that loot box exclusive skin for my in game weapon

[psyxon]

Up your reading comprehension.

[zerocarnage]

Gambling isn't just winning real money you know. Stop defending or trying to justify how wrong this is and how bad it's gotten.

This gen has completely become unfunny for many people because of publishers and developers greed. There tactics to make progression In games harder so then they offer an alternative in purchasing lootboxes that aid you in making that progression copable again is really taking the pee. Not only that but gambling entails chance and just because money isn't won, other prizes are.

Take fortnite for instance the game is good, I would of enjoyed it even more but they added llamas ie loot boxes. Now these llamas have schematics locked out, you can not find them while playing the game and going round maps, instead you have to gamble your very own money and often when you do you are given very dissapointing odds at gaining the golden llamas. If you do manage to get a golden Lana you are still not guaranteed to get a schematics that you find usefully and the odds of decent legendary schematics or certain schematics are clearly at the lowest % compared the the rest of the graded schematics that clearly can not take you very far within the game.

By the time you reach half way through the 2nd zone in fortnite your in need of legendarys, there are only 4 zones. I myself have had a few gold but for what I spent I physically felt sick and realised I had gambled on pretty much nothing yet to progress through a game I consider good I felt I had no choice but to buy fortnites out rageous loot boxes.

I have been on Twitter and said to the devs that locking schematics out of the games is just wrong, that once the game does go free that free player will put the game down by zone 2 because they can't go any further without purchases. Fortnite publisher/dev along with many others are forcing people to purchase content that should be obtainable by playing the game and if you do not your screwed, they are basically saying we don't care about you unless your dumping more money into the game/games.

Back to loot boxes, what makes all this gambling is the fact that you are made to feel there is a grand prize to be had if you buy. Really loot boxes are no different than scratch cards, you buy a card and its sealed you do not know what money is under the silver scratchable surface and the odds of winning are next to nothing but the enticement is there and because it is gaming it's actually worse that enticement is. Were being sucked in and can't do a thing about it. The feeling once you have opened a loot box is also the same as a scratch card, if you don't win your emotions take over with a sick feeling that you didn't get anything for the money you have spent and the money you just handed over to support the devs and if you win something that can be put to use then your filled with joy. There is also the fact that if you do not get anything from a loot box the addiction in opening more comes into play, somehow a feeling of I need to find something in these loot boxes as the previous ones didn't unveil anything which leads to even more spending.

There is no ifs and buts about all this, those who defend this either must not be spending on loot boxes or what they have spent they have gotten exactly what they wanted with lots of luck, either way it doesn't warrant a defence, what about the many others who have been sucked in and there pockets dried out because of the greed and this gambling tactic by publishers and developers.

[yomfweeee]

Yes, gambling literally is spending money for a chance at more money definition you turds. If real money isn't involved, it is just a game of chance.

[yomfweeee]

@ocelot

Worse or not, it's your decision to waste your money on it.

[JackBNimble]

Well if I can't cash out then it's not gambling... just a really stupid purchase.
You're buying a digital loot box plan and simple.

[nitus10]

The definition of gambling is as follows: http://www.dictionary.com/b...

1. to play at any game of chance for money or other stakes.
2. to stake or risk money, or anything of value, on the outcome of something involving chance:

In the case of "loot boxes" you aren't gambling for money but for other stakes hence "loot boxes" are a form of gambling.

It is one thing to have a game were due to the natural progression of the game or skill of the player random items or "loot" is picked up but that totally different when the player has to pay real-world money as a shortcut to getting those items.

I can understand microtransactions for "fluff" such as clothing, skins and items which don't give the player an advantage in multiplayer or even singleplayer but when you are enticed to pay for the so-called "loot crate" with randomized content than that is gambling

Sure some people state that "It is the player choice and it is their money after all". That is fine if they are an adult and are willing to take adult consequences such as a gambling addiction but it is also possible that children will get involved as well. Basically, you would have to very naive if you did not believe that children would not get to play a game with real-world money gambling even if that game is rated as adult only.

[Kosic]

The activity or practice of playing at a game of chance for money or other stakes.

That's from the dictionary , you do not need to win money or use money to make it gaming.

Loot boxes are gambling as you are paying the odds to win prizes. To make it not gambling. You would be able to buy the item out right without the chance of getting something else.

[psyxon]

Except for a lot of games, you have a better chance of beating the House in LV than getting legendary content in loot crates/boxes. Cough *Gears 4* cough.

[AizenSosuke]

Yes like drinking and driving to gamble with your life.

[DJustinUNCHAIND]

Well, that got needlessly dramatic.

[opinionated]

That’s actually a great comparison and shows how ridiculous people are by making this comparison. Even getting to the point where they are contacting gambling officials. People hate microtransactions so much that they form their world view around their belief.

People can gamble with anything, people do gamble with everything. The only things that are certain are death and taxes. That broad view of “gambling” isn’t what we’re talking about though. I NEVER thought I would have to defend microtransactions, I loathe the practice but it’s not gambling.

The constant retardation is driving me insane lmao. If this were a troll I would have finally been bested lol. It’s not a troll though, people are just dumb.

[zerocarnage]

Was funny though and in some ways there is a little truth to it.

There are those that are spending everything they have at the time and gambling on a chance to be above others, so really while drinking and driving is dangerous it still probably offers better odds at one or the other in the way of life and death than actually coming out with something worth while on these games.

[Sonic_Vs_Mario]

Are trading Cards gambling that's aimed at children?

[CorndogBurglar]

Thats an interesting comparison...

[ocelot07]

Thing is can you sell trading cards? Yes

Can you sell in game skins? No

[opinionated]

That has nothing to do with if it’s gambling or not.

“Currently, the Gambling Commission does not class loot boxes as gambling because, in its view, the items obtained from them cannot be exchanged for real-life money.”

So under your logic cards ARE gambling and loot crates aren’t. You’re wrong though, what they mean is like chips in a casino. You gamble with chips and then trade them in for cash. If I go sell casino chips at a gas station down the street it’s not gambling.

I love how the genius that wrote this article lists source after source of gambling officials saying it’s not gambling but still “finds it odd” and lists dumb counterpoints by taking regulation out of context.

Whoever thinks lootboxes are legitimate gambling, they have a very sheltered view of what gambling really is. Which is like 99.99% of the idiots in the media that started this “serious gaming industry issue”. The only person who agreed with this nonsense is the “behaviorist” that says it imitates the addictive nature. “I need to have that overwatch skin!” is not the problem of the gambling authorities, that’s a personal issue. Seek help.

[zerocarnage]

It's not always skins though or just them.

Fortnite locks out weapon, hero, defender, survivor and trap schematics to loot boxes. You need those schematics to progress from zone 2 and up especially legendary schematics. To get a gold llama is very rare as well I mean you have to whack it 3 times for it to turn to gold. You can get schematics in rewards but not buy farming in the game, I mean they even have chests and safes in the game and when you open them you don't get these schematics, free players next year will struggle on fortnite after zone 2 a d even half way though that.

I actually stopped paying/playing because I could see how much I'd of had to pump into fortnite. You do get a legendary schematic if the llama turns gd if lucky up to 3 but that is proper lucky and because there are so many different schematics to the game the chances of getting what you were Hoping for are real low.

[NarooN]

You CAN sell in-game skins for real world money in games like CSGO. Or at least you could, it's been ages since I heard about it. But there was a big controversy over people losing money and whatnot gambling for skins in CSGO not too long ago.

Hell, on Steam in general you can sell virtually anything in your inventory, whether it's games, trading cards, wallpapers, game skins, etc for real money for your Steam wallet. Or even paypal payments outside of it with private trading.

[zerocarnage]

You can play games with trading cards or should I say power cards like magic the gathering that make it gambling, all you need to do is verbally agree to the rules. A whole graveyard could be yours in magic the gathering if players agree to the rules that cards that get sent to the graveyard are won by the player who wins the game. There is always a way to turn pretty much anything into gambling.

[opinionated]

Yup, you can gamble on anything and legally it’s different for every state. Should these card games be penalized like a brick and mortar casino or an online casino? Raid the comic shop and start arresting people like a mafia speakeasy for their magic showdown?

For example, in my state it’s still illegal to play a game of poker at your house. Is it gambling (punishable by law) in games where there is no “house”? I don’t think so. Of course it’s not enforced and they are in the process of legislatively separating “recreational gambling” with industrial gambling but just the fact that it took this long makes the stupidity personal.

[Bga22]

Can we stop it with these bandwagon whoring articles already? They are gambling, I don't need eurogamer to tell me that.

[Christopher]

No, they just feed off of gambling tendencies which is just as bad.

[CorndogBurglar]

I don't know though.

I suppose you aren't winning any real life currency, so I doubt any law would ever be passed to restrict it. But when you think about it, you are opening a box with unknown contents and getting some type of reward. Its no different than slot machines.

[ocelot07]

True they are like slot machines. However, You must be 18 years old to play on a slot machine. Now if the gambling commission ordered publishers to slap an 18 rating on there games due to loot boxes. That would sure change the tune from publishers. Could you imagine if the likes of Forza where rated 18 due to loot boxes. It was heavily impact sales and Microsoft would patch out loot boxes instantly without a thought. Same goes for other publishers.

[zerocarnage]

Gambling doesn't need to be real life currency, casinos have many other games with many different none currency prizes up for grabs. The more variety of prizes on offer the more crowds they can pull into there games whether it's a car, bike, speed boat, caravan or holiday I've seen all sorts of gambling games without real money prizes.

What makes gambling gambling is addiction, enticement,agreeing to rules, trading off something that is yours for a chance at something that isn't yours with % and odds all thrown into the mix and a chance at a return whether it's a small return, medium or large all makes it gambling.

[thatguyhayat]

Yes it is, if you pay for it and get shit stuff you'll get encouraged to try again hoping for better loot.

[Cobra951]

If they involve real money, yes.

[opinionated]

Should these articles be locked due to duplicate posts? I find it sad and pathetic that this is even being discussed. Do we need government regulation? Are we too retarded to decide our own financial decisions? Apparently so according to the business and gambling experts in the gaming media.

[zerocarnage]

When you go to a casino, there are and they have games that can be played that arnt just money prizes you know. You will see all sorts just to entice you ie cars, bikes carribean cruises and holidays even a house for prizes, are you saying those who are trying to defend loot boxes that they are not gambling.

If something has a chance of a win it doesn't matter the prize it is exactly that chance that makes its gambling along with enticement. In fact because it's gaming gambling is actually going to be worse than a casino by a thousand to one because it's what we love to do and its infected most of our loved franchise's.

There are many way to put the gambling tag on loot boxes. Locking out certain stuff in a game that is used normally to advance the games Then putting in a very low % of obtaining or winning said item that suddenly allows that gamer to start advancing again is just wrong at every level.

As long as you are made to pay in someway with something in order for a chance to win something back of equal or higher value then it is gambling. Then theres the fact that most of the time what you have handed over often brings the result of something coming back that is of worse value or a worse prize that is also gambling.

[opinionated]

It is gambling but we’re not talking about a broad Webster’s dictionary definition, we’re talking about specific legal guidelines and whether or not it needs more regulation. Our opinions don’t matter, only facts matter. Adding a car into a jackpot doesn’t take away the money factor. Many places use prizes as currency. Even states that have made gambling illegal allow “charitable gaming” is what it’s called. It is more like a donation with a chance to get something back, which is completely legal and not really gambling. Stuff like raffles or bingo for example. Is it gambling? Kinda, yes in a very broad description. In a specific legal way that requires regulation? No, thats stupid.

To compare loot boxes with something like a slot machine you would have to say “I will give you a free spin if you carry this slot machine up and down the stairs 3 times. Or.... you can say f**k that and give it a dollar. It can guarantee at least one rare prize every spin and it yours to keep, use, dismantle however you see fit.” Paying for property isn’t gambling, the randomness of the transaction does not constitute a penalizing action. In that case buying a one punch man keychain with the blacked out wrapper is gambling. A happy meal toy is gambling.

[GameBoyColor]

Make the games be rated 18+ for loot boxes just like all other forms of gambling and i swear most of them will go away.

[opinionated]

So lie and twist reality to get the desired result? The end of MTs? As much as I hate MTs, it’s not up to me or us to decide their fate. It’s a market thing and I’m a “I don’t agree with what you say but I will fight for your right to say it” kind of person.

[Flipgeneral]

Of course it's gambling.

Hence why they have laws in Japan which regulate how heavy-handed the gacha mechanics are from game to game.

Western devs are catching on and it's a scary thought

[PlayableGamez-]

Loot boxes are amazing.
Love them.
Keep them coming strong amazing AAA gaming companies.
EA, Activision, Bluepoint, Blizzard, and WB Games are great companies.

[Amyellevivv]

Welcome to game Vegas where the % of winning is 0.01...

[Cy]

If they are, then so are all those coin machines where you can win one of an assortment of plastic crap and temporary tattoos.

[Wrex369]

It's a chance based system that will draw "whales" and gambling addicts. It's predatory and yes, chance based gambling.

[The_Jackel]

yes.... simple

[xtheblackparade]

Loot boxes are as much "gambling" as pinball machines. You don't get any real life currency from playing it so it's not gambling in the traditional/popular sense of the word.

[2600Thunder]

Is a frog's ass water tight?

[Warshade]

They are more like those little gumball machines with the plastic eggs with tiny toys inside them at grocery stores.