On the topic of loot boxes, PEGI's Operations Director Dirk Bosmans stated that rating boards can't define what's gambling, only gambling commission can.
Everyone has been trying to warn the industry for ages now. They keep pushing their luck and a gambling commission will have to get involved.
I doubt they will do much. Big publishers will apply pressure...
They're all starting to get into it, even big devs. What is needed is a governing body that can stick by the gamer, one that is set up through law which can say no and by law can say no to these devs,pubs and company's. I said at end of last gen when noticed it happening slowly that the industry is to unwatched, we need watchdog or something to apply pressure through the press and tv. When unregulated developers/publishers can do what they want with no care in the world for gamers or comebacks and can't be fined for all this, what they're doing to make extra money out of us is wrong and unjust, it is time that these greed approaching devs get some payback. They earn enough off sales and season passes adding micro T's and lootboxes on full priced games is going to far.
I hope they do step in or this will get out of hand
It's a loophole in the industry that is now being exploited in most new releases which is a shame but greed is greed. Look how long it took Valve to take action with csgo skin gambling, and even now it still happens.
Gambling = lootboxes not too hard to see ESRB.
Yeah, it is gambling. Needs to be regulated. Loot boxes could be a trigger for ex-gambling addicts playing the game, don't get why it's not regulated at all.
Maybe when they have empty loot boxes, when you gamble you can walk away with nothing. Loot boxes always give something.
Nah man it's still gambling because your spending money to win million aka good stuff, while they'll give 0.50 cents stuff. Sounds like gambling to man.
I might not mind lootboxes because I never spent a penny on them, but have made close to $50 selling them on Steam.
So if i make a slot machine that every time rewards you with at least 1 cent than it is no longer considered gambling by your logic... Its gambling plain and simple. The only way it wouldn't be gambling is if every prize you received in the box had an equal value however this is not the case with loot boxes as most have "tiers" such as common, rare, epic, legendary and you are not guaranteed to receive any of the higher tiered loot. I wouldn't not have a problem with a gambling system in games IF the game also gave you the ability to buy the skin you want straight up but most games are locking their items behind this gambling wall and that is not OK. Heroes of the Storm used to offer all skins for a price and i liked that system now with 2.0 they have introduced loot boxes and the only way to get skins is to gamble or wait for it to be a "featured item" that you can temporarily buy for real cash.
Let's see here. I give money, on an undisclosed, arbitrary return that I'm uncertain of. Sounds like gambling to me. Rocket science to some I guess. Translation: "We can't define what's gambling, our pay cheques may get cut off if we do."
Anything can be gambling in that sense. If I buy a game, I’m not certain of what that game entails or if it’s actually something I want. If I buy a game I know I’m getting a game, if I buy a loot box I’m getting a loot box. Where is the relevant gamble? It “looks and feels” like a slot machine? It’s not a slot machine. The real question is do you want government regulation? Because that’s not rocket science, that’s ignorant leftist talk. Only a leftist would be itching for a government to get their foot in the door of video game regulation and pretend it would make things better. Do you believe your odds would be better if you regulated publishers like any other gambling industry lol. Not only would people still buy micro transactions, they would get crappier things (or nothing at all) based on very lenient regulations. Gambling regulation is not as “helpful” as you think. Unless this is just a ploy to make games “illegal” in some states in an attempt to ban MTs. It would never work and I don’t think people are that smart to even attempt it. They just parrot the dictionary and string of bullshit that flows from sites like polygon. “Predatory loot boxing” says the publication that absolutely benefits from this since they constantly go on record playing games without any sense of competence. They need loot boxes more than anyone lol.
"ignorant leftist talk" Why do c*nts always have to bring politics into everything?
The gamble is the enticement, the in your face approach and the locking of content in the lootboxes that makes gamers feel they have to open them, then there is the randomness and usually crap odds that your not going to even get anything good at all.
@clan Exactly! Why do leftist c*nts always have to bring he government into everything? Government regulation is politics is it not? @zero Enticement isn’t gambling and I have never had to urge to buy a loot box. The odds also aren’t that bad. Most games with loot boxes give you the chance to “liquify” your duplicates and buy more crates. They also make guarantees like “one rare in every package” or whatever. It’s nothing like gambling other than aesthetic. You can’t regulate a game because it “looks” like gambling, that’s stupid.
i agree wit the anything is gambling thing @ClanPsi1 blame the media, celebrity, virtue signalers (that includes gaming industry now unfortunately..)
I have already accepted lootboxes as long as they are fair. But I do think there should be regulations. China classifies it as gambling. I think they are right. Games that have lootboxes should automatically get an M or Pegi 18 rating for gambling.. That should deter publishers from using it. But they'll probably find another way and maybe find something even worse than lootboxes.
alot of Games that have these lootboxes are already M.
Like FIFA and their Ultimate Team packs, in a game rated PEGI 3? Even PES 18 has gone into the act of slowing down MyClub progression compared to PES 17 and aiming for players to spend real money on MyClub coins, they've cut down on the daily login freebies (PES 17 freebies were generous especially with the MyClub coins, now in 18 they give sweet FA) and reduced the amount of free contracts and tactical boosts, trying to get people to spend money on MyClub coins to try and get the elusive Black Ball players and legends and to get high team spirit (chemistry - which this year is insultingly bad as a 90 team still gets beat by a crappy 75 chemistry team, definitely was not the case in PES 17).
I said a lot of games. Not e every game
There will probably be some kind of lobby group that big publishers will pay to say it isn't gambling and it isn't a problem.
Because it isn't gambling.
PEGI and ESRB are both funded by the publishers. Not sure why people expect them to change anything.
Any positive change, will have to come from the collective voice of the gaming community. As long as it remains divided or not entirely concerned, then these loot boxes aren't going anywhere. It sucks, but it's how it is. Government is the last thing you want involved.
The gambling commission does not classify loot boxes as gambling because you can not exchange the items for real world currency, though beyond that detail everything else is the same. If a 3rd party site gets involved with it like the CSGO skin thing then yes that is full on gambling. If something is considered gambling, it needs to follow a very specific set of legislation, which has all kinds of practical consequences for the company that runs it. If PEGI/ESRB would label something as gambling while it is not considered as such from a legal point of view, it would mostly create confusion. The ESRB does not consider this mechanic to be gambling because the player uses real money to pay for and obtain in-game content. The player is always guaranteed to receive something - even if the player doesn't want what is received. Like opening a pack of pokemon cards
Gambling elements in a system that's designed to coheres those with strong gambling personalities to easily part ways with they're cash Or Something along those lines
Yeah well it is gambling and if you look at there definitions of gambling, if they used there brain they would be able to define that themselves.
You always get something, thus, it's not gambling. You bought something and it just didn't have what you wanted in it.
If you think this is gambling, then you must also think that Trading card games are gambling. You always get something.
I don’t see this as gambling though. When you gamble, there is a chance that you will lose something, and there is also a chance that you will win something. With loot box, you are guaranteed to win something, no matter how crappy it is. We should, however, do something to contain this loot box/microtransactions disease from spreading even further. While I would love to say vote with our wallets, that isn’t effective anymore.
What a cop-out by PEGI. Gamers are not asking the gambling commission to step in, they want gaming regulatory bodies to! If or more likely when this loot box BS goes too far it is the government that is going to step in hard.
I understand many people choose not to use loot boxes,therefore they don't consider them an issue.But sometimes in life it's useful if we look after each other, not just ourselves. This is a bad idea for gamers, period. Is it gambling? I would say yes, some say no. That's suggests we need some level of regulation. Maybe a classification system would work. So any game that just contains cosmetic loot boxes has one classification, while a game the gives advantages through their loot boxes(therefore, effecting game play and consequently disadvantaging those that don't buy,) would receive a different classification. These could be clearly marked alongside ESRB rating etc. That way we would all be clearer on what we are getting. I never intentionally buy games with loot boxes,but it's not always east to be sure, and even them what form they take. Devs obviously don't want people to be aware, that to me, is an indication we need to do something.
I would love to see loot boxes banned. Bring back pay to play please. There's nothing wrong with a monthly sub for a MMO. The problem is that most MMO's follow the same formula of endless grind and RNG based loot drops that make the whole genre go stale and feel shallow. I'm tired of questing and raiding every day for months (or years) to reach the level cap. I'm tired of collecting the 13 different materials to upgrade my level 7 sword to the level 10 sword and then repeating the process over and over again to get the mediocre level 100 sword that is at the end of the crafting tree. When you craft something, it should be a simple recipe and not require the previous iteration of that thing to upgrade it. If I want to craft the level 100 spear, let me craft it from scratch with a handful of materials! While we're on crafting, just let us pick whatever mods we want on it from a list. Why not? We know what mods we want, and it's obnoxious to hide the good mods on super legendary raid drops with a 0.00001% chance to drop from the hardest boss in the game that takes 40 people 6 hours to kill and then they backstab each other trying to claim it for themselves. I don't like "gates" and whatever other obstacles thrown in just to make progression harder. Make progression fun and give us a bigger skill tree (path of exile has a nice one) a more expansive crafting system, lots of customization options, and let us group together to have fun instead of dinging the next level. Questing should be done for enjoyment and not to be an obstacle. Same for dungeons, raids, and PvP.
How is it any different than trying to get one of those mystery toy collectibles? You don't know which figure you will get and you could get a duplicate but that's the chance you take. The key here is... you ALWAYS get SOMETHING. In gambling, you just lose and get nothing for it.
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