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RX Vega's Rapid Packed Math Could Narrow The Power Gap Between PS4 Pro and Xbox One X

RX Vega is about to launch. Its new Rapid Packed Math feature is already available on PlayStation 4 Pro, though, while it is absent on Xbox One X.

With upcoming games like Wolfenstein II and Far Cry 5 announcing support for the feature, this could translate into more games using it even on console.

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KaiPow43d ago (Edited 43d ago )

I hope Wolfenstein shows a good performance difference between the Pro and X.

Septic43d ago

Secret sauce- PS version!

ocelot0743d ago

Pull your finger out Sony. I want a PS4 version of PAWAAAR OF DA CLOWDZ.

XMessiah23x43d ago

Yea this does scream of cloud secret sauce BS.

43d ago
bluefox75543d ago (Edited 43d ago )

The difference is, this is just some guy stating his opinion. Microsoft's secret sauce BS comes directly from Microsoft. Not to mention, they pushed the cloud nonsense way harder than anything that came from Playstation.

Rude-ro43d ago

Ha! I would trust a company that believes in and provides innovation over "da cloud" because we have no games to sell you.

There is no secret to coding and computing... there is innovation.
If there is an easy road map to follow for developers.., then it could be used and who would be better to push that? Sony.

Nobody said it is going to happen, but event and and are working together on it.

Games might look better on the xox... but come back when they make a game that looks better than a Sony produced game. Not going to happen because the core engine is a Xbox one.

Gamer5743d ago

Lmfao secret sauce doesn't even close the gap ( not even close ) and still has to be implemented here you go -1

Babadook743d ago

Lol at the ms fanboys reaction. Yah. This is Sony's version of power of the cloud except in this case it's a real thing that will actually improve graphics and when used properly narrow the gap to an extent.

IGiveHugs2NakedWomen43d ago (Edited 43d ago )

@Septic
Apparently, AMD agrees with Mark Cerny. Pay close attention to the * enclosed text in both quotes.

Mark Cerny - "One of the features appearing for the first time is the handling of 16-bit variables – ***it’s possible to perform two 16-bit operations at a time instead of one 32-bit operation.*** In other words, at full floats, we have 4.2 teraflops. With half-floats, it’s now double that, which is to say, 8.4 teraflops in 16-bit computation. This has the potential to radically increase performance."

AMD - "Next-Gen Compute Units (NCUs) provide super-charged pathways for ***doubling processing throughput when using 16-bit data types.1 In cases where a full 32 bits of precision is not necessary to obtain the desired result, they can pack twice as much data into each register and use it to execute two parallel operations.*** This is ideal for a wide range of computationally intensive applications including image/video processing, ray tracing, artificial intelligence, and game rendering."

I don't claim to know much about computer engineering, but I do know how to read. It's not secret sauce if engineers working at two different companies make similar statements.

AmUnRa43d ago (Edited 43d ago )

Septic you are wrong, that secret sauce, hidden gGPU, that power of the cloud making the Xbone 2 times stronger, that DirX12 lie was al sayd by Microsoft.

This is NOT Sony saying this, but AMD and developers.
Nice try but no...🙄

Unspoken42d ago

Kind of like the PS3 cell proc that was going to revolutionize gaming?

indysurfn42d ago (Edited 42d ago )

I'm a software developer (not games) but I know enough that I could go through a games software and simply change all the 32bit objects to 16bit manually in a day (much faster if I have development tools to do it) then have people test it(which is where the real cost will come in). This is NOT some secret sauce. I change objects around all the time for precision in NON game coding. This is VERY REAL. If you read the article it has TEST results. 550,000 at 32bit and 1,200,000 at 16 bit. I bet 95 percent of most game objects will not need to be 32bit.

Unlike Microsoft's Cloud secret sauce this is something that is chipset dependent, and something that has TANGIBLE results. Sony did not pay AMD for secret sauce. RX Vega is not using Secret sauce people can do a FPS test to see results.

@DARK_WOLF your not being REASONABLE. This is not a time machine they arent because they was not made with this software technology. Game program code would have to be implemented after RX VEGA firmware is installed. And it would have to be done for EACH game. Not likely for most since most of them will have already gotten 95% of their sales. This is for mostly going forward.

MagicBeanz42d ago

This is tech from a third party that Microsoft chose not to add to their design. This isn't the definition of secret sauce. Try again.

EverydayGuy42d ago (Edited 42d ago )

Sony's 1st party is their secret sauce

dantesparda42d ago

I love how MS fanboys are trying to ridicule this as some kind of Microsoft like secret sauce/PR bullshit, when this is a real performance booster and even AMD cant shut up about it and advertises it all the time as a selling point. Fanboy just dont know how to tell fact from fiction anymore, eh?

Angeljuice42d ago

It's AMD , I don't think anyone reads the article, this is a part of the AMD roadmap, it's proven technology. If a game is programmed to support RPM, the Pro will increase hugely in performance (IF).

+ Show (13) more repliesLast reply 42d ago
IGiveHugs2NakedWomen43d ago (Edited 43d ago )

This is what Mark Cerny was talking about when he discussed the PS4 Pro potentially being capable of 8.4 teraflops of performance;

"One of the features appearing for the first time is the handling of 16-bit variables – it’s possible to perform two 16-bit operations at a time instead of one 32-bit operation. In other words, at full floats, we have 4.2 teraflops. With half-floats, it’s now double that, which is to say, 8.4 teraflops in 16-bit computation. This has the potential to radically increase performance."

After reading the article, it doesn't seem so far fetched now does it?

https://imgur.com/mlMvloN

jasonpugh43d ago

No secret sauce with PS4 Pro. Xbox X will hold the crown for best console until next gen when something with better hardware arrives.

jasonpugh43d ago

It seems very far fetched actually. PS4 Pro isn't going to be a 8.4 TF machine no matter what you want to see. This is as bad as the Xbox being a cloud beast. Neither is going to happen anytime soon.

DARK_WOLF43d ago (Edited 43d ago )

Mark cerny also said you need 8tf for uncompromised 4k on games.

So by your logic all ps4 pro games should be native 4k and then some on this 8.4tf beast.

So why arent they?

Because its 4.2tf

Dragonscale43d ago

@jasonpugh, a console is judged by its games not its powah. Based on that scorpio is nowhere near being the best, not even close.

Bolts43d ago

Completely bullshit. 8 teraflops machine can easily crank out 1080p 60 fps in any console game that the consoles struggles with like Fallout 4 for example. The PS4 Pro is not a 8 teraflop machine or else Horizon will be 60 fps easy. As with all things the proof of performance is in the frames per second. Either you have power or you don't.

rainslacker42d ago

The 8.4TF was just a simple example to explain what he was talking about. He didn't mean to imply that it was now an 8.4TF machine. There are too many things which require 32 bit operations. But in a real world scenario you could see a 10-30% increase or bump at times for certain things withing the game, which in itself is significant.

It's not even that out of the ordinary to use 16 bit floats to conserve memory before this became available, so it doesn't require much change in the coding process outside of handling the putting two operations in code to run in parrallel.

indysurfn42d ago

I'm a software developer (not games) but I know enough that I could go through a games software and simply change all the 32bit objects to 16bit manually in a day (much faster if I have development tools to do it) then have people test it which is where the real cost will come in. This is NOT some secret sauce. I change objects around all the time for precision in NON game coding. This is VERY REAL. If you read the article it has TEST results. 550,000 at 32bit and 1,200,000 at 16 bit. I bet 95 percent of most game objects will not need to be 32bit.

Unlike Microsoft's Cloud 'secret sauce' this is something that is chipset dependent, and something that has TANGIBLE results, reproducible results. Do you think Sony paid AMD for secret sauce? RX Vega is real it will release August 14th, and people will be able to call true or not, do you think Sony would put themselves in that position just for the benefit of ONE DAYS hype?

@DARK_WOLF your not being REASONABLE. This is not a time machine they arent because they was not made with this software technology. Game program code would have to be implemented after RX VEGA firmware is installed. And it would have to be done for EACH game. Not likely for most since most of them will have already gotten 95% of their sales. This is for mostly going forward.

Do you really think Sony would make themselves look bad if this is not real for the benefit of one days Hype? It comes out tomorrow! It can be proven to be fake on PC if it is secret sauce.

+ Show (4) more repliesLast reply 42d ago
InTheZoneAC42d ago

I hope God of War shows a big fn difference in performance between the Pro and X............................. ............................... ...

UltraNova42d ago

Nothing on xb1x will come even close for the foreseeable future. I have my doubts even MS's 1st party can do anything about it.

MadPandaSkills42d ago

“RX Vega's Rapid Packed Math Could Narrow The Power Gap Between PS4 Pro and Xbox One X”

Sounds great but PS4 doesn’t even need “Rapid Packed Math” to destroy Xbox One X. Microsoft doesn’t have a talented studio comparable to Guerrilla Games or Naughty Dog. They also don’t have any game engine that comes close to Naughty Dog’s proprietary engine or the Decima engine.

Power is nothing without the software and talent to push it forward.

PFFT42d ago Show
MadPandaSkills42d ago (Edited 42d ago )

@PFFT

“It will need more than just some cheesy will make no difference software upgrade and a handful of exclusive and Japanese Shovelware to kill MS. Especially when your company of preference loses money early while MS makes nothing but profit.“

I’m referring to Xbox not MS as a whole. Obviously. PS4 is over 30 million ahead of Xbox so those games you just bashed do actually matter. People like game diversity believe it or not.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 42d ago
Eidolon43d ago (Edited 43d ago )

I don't understand why Xbox One X won't get this? Because developers won't want to utilize it?

Oh, just read this "Microsoft didn’t opt to add this particular feature to their Xbox One X custom design".. interesting, i thought they were using the same architecture and that feature was just there, didn't know you could "opt out" as if it was an expensive addition.

BigWan7843d ago

@Eidolon...

Microsoft chose to go with a beefier gou & super fast memory to basically [brute force] & get to the same (or near slightly exceeded it)...

While the FP16 good and does work... they beefier ram/gpu combo will pretty much win out

DARK_WOLF43d ago (Edited 43d ago )

The GPU in the 1x is completely custom designed. ie not derived from any other card on the market. Itl have its own special tricks and features. Where as the ps4 pro is more like a declocked 480 but really its just the same ps4 gpu x2 in a butterfly design with added features and higher clock speeds.

Also FP16 is not what alot of people on this site seem to believe it is. Its nothing overly special and isnt some special trick to have the same gfx at half cost.

OpenGL43d ago

It's a feature of AMD's new Vega GPU and not included on Polaris. The PS4 Pro GPU for whatever reason has some Vega features like half-floats while the Xbox One X does not.

DARK_WOLF43d ago

I find it a little odd the one X wouldnt support fp16 but it as it has its own other features and raw power so i guess it doesn't need it. There are Vega features in the 1x gpu as well.

Will be good to get a final breakdown of the console once its released.

rainslacker42d ago

Both systems have customized chips which take out from the original, or borrow tech from other processors being worked on.

Cant say why MS decided to opt out. I doubt it had much to do with saving money or putting the tech elsewhere. This is more a control thing than a low level silicon thing.

indysurfn42d ago

@Eidolon Every option in chipsets cost more....Okay except when you have a slower memory option, or smaller memory/bus option those kinds of options they dont cost more obviously. But otherwise EVERYTHING costs. And if you dont EVER use it it STILL costs! Except firmware level disabled options, like memory, helper chips and server kind of options. They cost a licensing fee to enable them which would be paid before they where enabled.

Eonjay42d ago

The feature requires hardware that supports it.

+ Show (4) more repliesLast reply 42d ago
Xx_Pistol_xX42d ago

The PS4 Pro GPU has some Vega features like half-floats because Mark worked with AMD to build the custom hardware.

MadPandaSkills43d ago

Sounds like PS4 Pro is about to get a nice boost in performance.

“A few AMD roadmap features are appearing for the first time in PS4 Pro. One of the features appearing for the first time is the handling of 16-bit variables – it’s possible to perform two 16-bit operations at a time instead of one 32-bit operation. In other words, at full floats, we have 4.2 teraflops. With half-floats, it’s now double that, which is to say, 8.4 teraflops in 16-bit computation. This has the potential to radically increase performance.“

moldybread43d ago

Sounds like you will expect a lot of incoming remarks in the future much like how the cloud technology helped Xbox. Mark Cerny already talked about this last year.

Eonjay43d ago

The 8.4 Pro feature is already well known. It seems like it makes the Pro the more powerful GPU but the truth is not all graphical features can use 16 bit precision as far as I know. It helps explain why HZD looks so good. The 16 bit trick already works with AA tech so it's really free. If someone could get everything to run in 16bit, the PS4 would effectively destroy the X GPU.

FATAL1TY43d ago (Edited 43d ago )

The PS version will outsell the xbone version

God of War, Horizon ZD, Uncharted, SpiderMan, TLOU2 (Best graphics ever)

EASY VICTORY for Sony

CaptainObvious87843d ago

Really moldy? You have absolutely no leg to stand on when talking about future promises companies make to lure in new customers or appease the current fanbase.

The amount of BS microsoft has spewed in this gen alone, you're the last person that should be claiming scepticism after eating all MS's broken promises with a silver spoon.

Kingthrash36042d ago

So you admit the cloud was bs?

IGiveHugs2NakedWomen42d ago (Edited 42d ago )

You're right Moldy, Mark Cerny did talk about this last year and now, engineers from AMD are talking about it in the here and now. This situation is completely different from "The Cloud," "DX 12," and "Dual Lane GPUs" because no one outside of Xbox fanboys ever said that any of those things would make a difference with the Xbox One. Even Microsoft downplayed what DX12 would do, but Xbox fanboys kept on saying "Just wait! Just wait!" We waited and nothing happened. AMD is actually confirming what Mark Cerny said last year. Did you bother to read the article?

+ Show (4) more repliesLast reply 42d ago
kneon43d ago

Even if we take as fact that it can perform twice the calculations in the same time, that doesn't translate to a doubling of total power. It's not like the only processing going on is math operations or that there aren't some other bottlenecks.

Sure it will help, but it won't double performance.

BigWan7843d ago

So it can take 2 16bit operations and process them at the same time... okay cool i guess..
First its not a full 32bit Float, 2nd that negates it from being available in all instances of any particular game...

While it will produce better results (when it can)...
It will NOT close the gap [in terms of power] with the 1X

The super fast RAM & Beefier GPU just exceeds it in terms of performance

Rude-ro43d ago

And the life span of 3 years with brute force is going to provide what? If a console is available for $100 less that can provide a near identical 4k image in a market that still is not dominate such as 4k tvs...
I think the power of the Xbox x is too much too late.

81BX43d ago

Too much?? Yeah, you right! Xb1X is too much for you.

rainslacker42d ago

Not every float needs to be 32 bit. 16 and 32 bit floats refers to the amount of memory it takes to hold the value, and the level of precision involved in the significant digits both before and after the decimal point.

So, if you're rendering a screen(or doing any float functions which there are many), and you have a 32 bit float, you can have 24 digits after the decimal, whereas in 16 bit you can have 11.

While the 24 digits seems like it'd be better because it's more accurate, quite a few functions within modern gaming and rendering disregard anything after a certain number of digits because it's faster already. Quite a few variables are already stored as 16-bit floats, because it takes up less memory. Same is true on X1 here too.

The memory aspect only affects the game in terms of getting the info to the chips, however that has no effect on the rendering in the case of performance here, because the memory in the PS4P is already capable of handling 4K at 60.

X1X is still likely to be more capable in terms of actual real world results, however, the half precision floats does indeed benefit the games as it can indeed improve performance. This is a concept that is already known in real world results through testing, although I don't know of any game which is said to be using it yet.

Thus, it can close the gap, but I highly doubt it would make the gap next to nothing. Real world results tend to put performance gains between 10-30%, but it's highly dependant on the game, and of course the dev utilizing the feature in a meaningful way. Some of that is fluid without the need for dev involvement, other times it has to actively be implemented. I'd imagine as time goes on, particularly if this becomes a norm in new systems, that we'll start seeing more games which implement this feature.

trainsgofast43d ago

Why PS4 PRO will not pass XB1x "UPDATE 7/4/17 20:44: Microsoft's Andrew Goossen has been in touch to clarify that D3D12 support at the hardware level is actually a part of the existing Xbox One and Xbox One S too. "Scorpio builds on the Command Processor capability present in the original Xbox One," we're told. "Our implementation of D3D12 supports all Xbox Ones, and games have already shipped that use it. When a game using D3D12 starts up, we reprogram the GPU's Command Processor front-end. The 50 per cent CPU rendering overhead improvement was reported by shipping games. The amount of win is dependent on the game engine and content, and not all games will see that size of improvement. Scorpio's Command Processor provides additional capability and programmability beyond what Xbox One/Xbox One S can do. We plan to take advantage of this in the future."]"

http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...
You need CPU to PUSH 4k too the GPU.

rainslacker42d ago

Having the function at a hardware level just means less coding for the dev. It doesn't signifcantly improve performance on a low level machine like consoles are. It means less functions to provide the same result in code, because now the dev can just say -send these variables to perform this function- instead of having multiple functions doing the same thing at the software level.

While there is some improvement due to having fewer functions, it still take the same time to perform said function within the hardware itself, as each individual part of the function is still it's own process. It's just now the processor handles those parts, as opposed to the software level handling those parts.

PistolsAtDawn42d ago

Have you been talking to MrXMedia?

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 42d ago
KionicWarlord22243d ago (Edited 43d ago )

Absolute nonsense. FP16 is not reducing a 2 teraflop advantage and it cant erase a 320GB memory bandwidth.

You cant get higher textures with rapid packed math because it also lacks the memory thanks to Xbox One X 12GB PS4 Pro will not be able to deliver.

Mark Cerny is quoted in there with his 8.4 teraflop FP16 nonsense. PS4 Pro is 4.2 teraflops.

For people who dont remember that Mass Effect Andromeda already used FP16 on PS4 PRO. It was use to help the framerate by 30 percent.

http://gamingbolt.com/mass-...

End of discussion folks.

MadPandaSkills43d ago (Edited 43d ago )

@KionicWarlord222

“End of discussion folks.”

If it’s not Xbox related it can’t possibly be good. Right?

KionicWarlord22243d ago

Devs have said there are performance gains but no dev is saying crazy stuff like it can be pushed to the equivalent of a Xbox One X.

Bioware`s FP16 usage had gains to improve performance on ps4 pro but no nonsense about making it the same as a xbox one x.

http://gamingbolt.com/wp-co...

cartoonx143d ago

well if u see the upvotes on the comments that are against xbox on this article, seems opposite to me.

DARK_WOLF43d ago

If its not playstation being better than everything else it cant possibly be true right?

zivtheawesome43d ago (Edited 43d ago )

it will shorten the gap but not make it dissapear obviously.
also if you are saying it had done nothing mantis burn racing on ps4pro reached native 4k mainly because of that feature.

Bruh43d ago

Yeah cause that's easily one the most demanding titles on the market

Zeref42d ago

no it won't shorten the gap.

Bigpappy43d ago (Edited 43d ago )

Correct , using 16bit instead of 32 bit only helps to improve frame rates by optimizing some aspects of the game to run faster, but when it comes to moving things like textures and large explosions, the wider the bus the better. This will not make it match what you will see with X1X.

@KionicWarlord222. Let the dreamers dream.

MadPandaSkills43d ago

@Bigpappy

“KionicWarlord222. Let the dreamers dream.”

Dream? I’d rather be playing great exclusives than worrying about which 3rd party game looks better.

MrFisher2143d ago

Your not going to see developers push the hardware of the least selling console. Lol.