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Xbox One X Creates Quite a Flutter

The Xbox One X and the PS4 Pro are indicators that the early adopters are rewarded the least by manufacturers.

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PiNkFaIrYbOi36d ago

The devs don't have to do anything and most of them won't do anything as seen by the Pro really. It costs more money to bump up the graphics instead of going to lowest denominator which will also be the biggest install base on whichever platforms the game is made on.

ElementX36d ago (Edited 36d ago )

"It costs more money to bump up the graphics"... wrong! Developers create high resolution assets for PCs and downgrade them, it doesn't cost them more.

PiNkFaIrYbOi36d ago

Yes that is why so many great ports go to pc.

Aenea36d ago

Alrighty! If I were you I would apply at some dev. and offer your amazing tech skills! I mean, you can just flip a switch and the game suddenly runs in a higher resolution with higher quality assets, even automatically adds additional graphical effects without any effort whatsoever! Probably also figures out all on it's own what the optimum native or checkerboard rendered resolution is as well! Tech these days is so amazing, who even needs programmers any more?

JasonKCK36d ago

Aenea, maybe they can enrol in your school "Don't Know Nothin University".

BG1157936d ago

Pink is right. Let's follow a simple example. The higher is the resolution, the higher the textures are. The guy making the textures will have to work more ad harder to give the game higher quality textures. He'll work more time, more time means normally getting more payed.
Now imagine that with all aspects of a game in the making...
Bumping resolution makes games more expensive, it's just natural.

Aenea35d ago (Edited 35d ago )

@BG

Yeah but it's not just the graphic assets themselves that need to be made tho. You can't just go and change a few lines of code and hope the game performs well at native 4k with Ultra settings. You have to find a resolution and effects that makes the game still perform well, then it might need optimising in all the right places for these settings, and then it needs to be thoroughly tested.

This isn't something that you do in a few minutes, this is lots of time spent by more than one person...

@jason

It's always funny that the people that really do not know a single little thing are only able to hurl insults!

yeahright235d ago

@pink, that has more to do with optimization than creating the base game.

frostypants35d ago (Edited 35d ago )

@PiNkFaIrYbOi: >"Yes that is why so many great ports go to pc."

Huh? The issues with ports are almost always in the form of bugs, not graphical problems.

@BG11579: > "The higher is the resolution, the higher the textures are. The guy making the textures will have to work more ad harder to give the game higher quality textures."

Doesn't work that way. Is it harder for you to create a 4K file in photoshop vs a 720p one? The answer is nope. Devs create high quality assets and downscale them as needed. They may or may not use that resolution to implement more details, but frankly at this level it's a diminishing return. Bottom line is a high resolution texture doesn't have to take even a moment more than a lower res one.

JasonKCK35d ago

Aenea!

It's not an insult that you don't know anything, it's a fact.

rainslacker34d ago (Edited 34d ago )

Still cost money to implement that stuff in the game. Each version has to be tested. Testing can be costly.

@others refuting element

Most objects and textures in games nowadays are created at a rather high level that wouldn't be possible to use in the game themselves on any platform. They are then downgraded to a point where they can be used, and often times, you may not see much difference in some things if it is significantly reduced due to how textures work, and the ways that polygon objects are rendered on screen using various effects(or tricks) to make them appear to be a higher quality than they really are.

This is typical, and actually is a lot easier than making a lower quality model and adding to it, as you basically have to do twice the optimization on an object as you increase it's quality or polygon count. Going from high to low though, there is less, to no optimization in the higher quality versions of the same thing.

This however, does not mean that it's as simple as just using higher quality objects, as the objects or textures in question will still be made at a much higher quality than what any GPU could handle today. As it's reduced, each version will be moved lower to accomadate what would be possible on various versions of the game.

For the most part, on PC, there will only be a few versions of different quality levels of any individual object or texture....not unlike a Level of Detail model. The sliders which allow for a seemingly exhaustive selection of options only applies different effects to those things. This wouldn't be a good way to handle console games, as it reduces the efficiency of the build, and would lead to wasted resources for things that wouldn't be used.

Because of this, it's better to tailor make individual models, thus making ElementX's assertion that it's as simple as throwing in a different model even less relevant, because console programming really doesn't work like that, and each build will require it's own testing to fix problems that would arise due to the use of different models.

+ Show (6) more repliesLast reply 34d ago
porkChop36d ago

"Yes that is why so many great ports go to pc."

The quality of ports has nothing to do with the quality of the assets. Devs always create high quality assets as a starting point, before scaling down for each platform. It costs them nothing to scale a high quality asset based on the original. Will every dev do so? Maybe not, but it doesn't really have anything to do with cost.

PiNkFaIrYbOi36d ago

Or how about all those games that never even make it to pc and I'm not talking about exclusives either.

Death36d ago

You would have to look for the games on PC. With PC being mostly digital, not much is ever on store shelves.

By making Xbox One and Xbox One X Windows 10 devices, Microsoft is trying to change the way PC games are made. If devs target PC first they will make better PC games. Xbox in return will be better also since it is essentially a PC with the inclusion of Windows 10. The only one not benefiting as much is Sony.

BiggerBoss35d ago

@Death

Yeah Xbox is benefitting so much by having all its exclusives go to PC. It's only selling like less than half of Ps4 numbers right?

rainslacker34d ago

I wouldn't say it costs nothing, as fine tuning a down grade can be a time consuming process to make it look just right. The biggest reason for starting high is that it's much easier to scale down than up. On top of that, any future enhancements can be done much quicker as new hardware becomes available.

In this case, I'd imagine that the higher quality may be done first, then downgraded to X1X or PS4P, then again for the base consoles. But each part does require that time and effort to make it look good. Maybe less time on the mid-gens due to less work needing to be done, and a lot of things can be done quickly. Tweaking object models can be the most difficult part, and then making sure the textures still look good on those downgraded models can also cause tweaking in the textures.

It's a common task, and nothing new even for the stock consoles.

The bigger the game though, the more work that needs to be done, then the testing to make sure it all works, and the continuous cycle of tweaking everything to make it work good. I see less time being spent on the mid-gens because of the lower install base, and the penchant to just brute force marginal gains because it's the easy thing to do.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 34d ago
Bigpappy36d ago

Do you know that there are over 70 games which are already enhanced for the X? The X is the best thing that could ever happen for current PSpro owners. As they now stand to gain more attention from developers who found it so easy to do on the X and some will feel obligated to do something for the pro also.

Godmars29036d ago

Given that the Pro, by being an extent of the PS4, sells better than the X1X by further fact of being out first, wouldn't it be "easier" to build for it rather than a platform that's still months from release and only seems to exist as a mid platform for consoles and PCs besides?

rainslacker34d ago

Well, given that most devs enhancements on the PS4P haven't exactly been a huge strong selling point, I fail to see how it's going to benefit us that X1 is doing it now too. PS4P has shown me that most devs(or likely the publishers) aren't going to spend a copious amount of time making things significantly better just because they can.

Death36d ago

If devs target Windows 10, they also create Xbox One and Xbox One X games at the same time. Windows 10 will scale the game accordingly for each platform.

PlayStation Pro is different since Sony is using their own proprietary OS and development tools. For Pro devs are forced to create a different game, but many of the assets are shared withPS4.

Aenea36d ago

"Windows 10 will scale the game accordingly for each platform."

Stop that nonsense! This is false if we're talking about videogames (not small mobile games)!

Goldby36d ago

"For Pro deva are forced to create a different game"

I popped my battlefield 4 in and it worked fine, no pro game installed.

Death36d ago

@Aenea,

This is how PC games have worked for decades. When I play a game on my Surface, gaming laptop or dedicated gaming PC it's the same game but the fidelity/quality of visuals are based on the hardware it's being used on.

@Goldby, You are correct, you can pop a PS4 disc in the Pro and it will work perfectly fine. If you want it "Pro enhanced" it will need to be done by the dev and then patched in the game. The process will be similar on Xbox One X, but the assets will already exist if the developer starts the game on PC. If they don't, Xbox and PS4 are pretty much in the same boat.

XanderZane35d ago

There are already PC game developers who have moved their game over to the XB1X SDK and have it up and running in 48hrs. Microsoft has made if very easy to port PC games to the XB1X. Indie developers can now publisher their own games on Xbox as well. There's already 100's of Indies in XBox Store.

Aenea35d ago (Edited 35d ago )

@Death

No, this is not how PC games have worked for decades and it's not how they work now.
It doesn't work automatically, it has to be coded in and even then on PC, people are using the graphics settings themselves to find the best settings for their PC, nothing automatic about it.
Except on the Xbox One and the One X the fiddling with the settings to get optimal performance is done by the developers, not the end user...

IGiveHugs2NakedWomen35d ago

Death, all developers use PC's running development kit software. Your entire post is nonsense.

Goldby35d ago

@Death

but developers done need to create a PS4 version and then make a pro version from scratch.

You are implyign they need to make 2 games, one for pro and one for ps4. that isn't the case

rainslacker34d ago

If what you are implying were the case, expect the Xbox to not actually use that extra power without added overhead of the system itself. The reason that things on PC are fairly fluid is due to higher level code being used. What is available on a PC isn't what's in the Xbox across the board, which is why DirectX exists in the first place. DirectX was a huge step forward for PC gaming, and it was much needed, and is still needed because it removes the hardware from the equation, and the developer builds to an API, as opposed to building to the hardware.

This leaves some power on the table, as it's an extra step in the process, and even the new low level API's with DX12 or Vulcan do not run at the same low level as those in the consoles, although it is better than before.

Getting a game up and running from one system to another isn't really that much of a chore if you're using the right engine. I could make a game in Unreal right now, and build it to any number of platforms with the engine interpreting functions for specific consoles. But getting that game running well on all platforms takes more than a couple days, and the optimization(porting) process can be quite arduous as the dev will indeed want to spend as much time getting as much power out of the console as possible.

To put things in perspective, I write tools which help port games, and I have several tools which can port between PC, Xbox, and PlayStation platforms and the game will run almost immediately depending on engine used so long as there isn't any specialized low level function which is specific to a specific platform.

+ Show (5) more repliesLast reply 34d ago
Nu36d ago

I'm hopping that the X sells horribly and receives a price drop shortly after.

Goldby35d ago

Why would you wish that?

Bigpappy35d ago

I see why you would want to benefit from that. But that would deter console manufacturers from making powerful consoles in the future. They need to at least get the cost back and not loose money to then spend the rest of the gen trying to make it back will other aspects of the console space.

UltraNova35d ago

Or,i dont know, the console can be a success, which is good for everyone in the console business and you can wait for the price drop when the market is good and ready...

C02rEthgInDim36d ago

Lol... Xbox X games will be made with the highest console in mind first, and then much like a computer game that is made the same way, you'll have the lower settings for the Xbox S and Xbox Launch. It's so easy to understand. Not sure why so many online pretend this is hard to get.

rainslacker34d ago

PC games are made with the lowest common denominator in mind. It's easier to work up with the code, but down with the graphics. Those minimum requirements are the base that a game is built for at the start, usually not getting that point in the development process and then being optimized so that the game can sell to the most number of people. After that, about the only thing that really changes is the graphics.