Today's divisive comment comes from Forza 7 Software Architect, Chris Tector.
lol multi-thousand? Our deluded Microsoft comment of the day.
Sure 500$ won't get you a full PC but if you're smart you use an existing PC, buy a 300$ GPU, check for bottlenecks that you need to upgrade and you've outdone the BEAST with the same money. Not only that but you:
- have a system with a 10x bigger games library
- save the monthly XBL subscription
- save more because PC games are cheaper
- have ALL games in 4k / whatever FPS you prefer without the need for patches
- an actual all-in-one solution for your home entertainment if you just hook it up to a TV
But if you're really, really smart (like, Microsoft-"smart") you just wait until Volta comes out (GDDR6 Memory, HBM2) in the next few months and GPU prices drop to a level where Scorpio seems like a bad joke.
lol dude obviously he exaggerated with his statement. let's not get crazy now.
xox is great value is what is he saying
So you are fine with Microsoft "exaggerating" to advertise their products but I'm the one getting crazy for stating simple facts? You fanboys sure are a special bunch.
It's obvious to people like us who more or less know technology but the average consumer wouldn't know any better. These are blatant lies told by MS and their developers, "True 4K" is now apparently dynamic resolution and checkerboarding, ridiculous.
This is far beyond exageration. Exageration would be saying it's a $1000 computer. Saying multi-thousand is a lie.
You can count on ms to mislead and Deceive people with every little opportunity.and their fanboys absolutely love it
It's not exaggeration. It's a lie. He's trying to pass off the product as something way more than it is, it's dishonest, and everyone should call out this as the BS that it is. The amount of flat out lies and deception surrounding the Xbox One X reveal is staggering.
To be fair, if the shaders on the cars were as good as GTSport I'd have a damn hard time figuring out the difference between it and a $1750 PC. The environment and details looked pretty amazing.
At the end of the day X1X is much more powerful than the PS4 Pro.
We spent over $1000 on our computer a year ago and it gets roughly comparable performance to a Xbox One X.
Since then RAM prices and GPU prices have actually jumped. We also used a copy of Windows we already had and we didn't even put a disk drive in, much less a UHD drive. It's also about four times the size of an Xbox One X so if you're considering form factor that's an issue as well.
Doesn't matter if it's a great value. When you have someone in the industry being this blatantly ignorant about specs of a machine, it spreads false information.
No way Turn 10 can optimize to the level of a "multi-thousand dollar PC" while Coalition can only get Gears 4 campaign to run Native 4k/30fps...Both CAN'T be true!!!
That would mean every 1st party studio (343, Coalition, etc) NEEDS to get their games running to the level that a multi-thousand dollar PC would run the same game at
Guys first of all take a breath. Does the XOX match the quality of Multi thousand dollar PCs? The answer is yes. Can you build one for much less that also matches the quality? Also yes. But thats not the question he was asked.
And the downplaying is getting so aggressive its becoming sad.
NX said "Sure 500$ won't get you a full PC but if you're smart you use an existing PC, buy a 300$ GPU, check for bottlenecks that you need to upgrade and you've outdone the BEAST with the same money."
Check for bottle necks and have to build a whole setup (desk, monitor, PC, etc) and upgrade on a regular basis? PASS. I'll take the XOX (along with my PS4 pro), my 65" 4K tv, Dolby Atmos 7.2, and super comfortable couch thank you very much.
"Guys first of all take a breath. Does the XOX match the quality of Multi thousand dollar PCs? The answer is yes. Can you build one for much less that also matches the quality? Also yes. But thats not the question he was asked. "
Ehm have you ever thought about getting yourself checked for schizophrenia?
"And the downplaying is getting so aggressive its becoming sad. "
Yes it is actually becoming sad... how ridiculously non-existent your arguments are.
Playstation Fanboys Unite!!
Lol... MS telling Lies just like Sony with their damn Dynamic 4K. Yet you sit here and type your hypocritical comment. Both companies are lying to their consumers.
"lol dude obviously he exaggerated with his statement. let's not get crazy now."
So they are allowed crazy talk but cannot be called out on such matters? When they are not called out it only encourages more of these statements. Just look at the remarks history of someone such as Albert Penello and you will understand how tolerance equals permission, even advocacy.
Actually Sony was upfront about checkerboard rendering and even discussed it at length prior to the console releasing. On top of that Sony never said the pro was about "true 4K" gaming like the liars at Microsoft are still touting.
Right... just built a PC with a Ryzen 7 1800x, 32gb 3000mhz DDR4, and a Geforce 10 series GPU, and a 500gb M.2 hard drive with 3.9GBps write and 1.7GBps read speeds that would eat XBO:X for lunch. I paid a bit over $1,500 for all of it. This system is easily 2-3x more powerful than XBO:X.
Congrats you literally said nothing.
Hey, Frosty. I'm sure if you reread your comment you'll realize the problem with it. Yes, your system may be more powerful than Scorpio. Three times more powerful is debatable. But not you clearly mention it's three times the cost. I'm also aware that given your knowledge of what Microsoft did with X if they spent just $300 more in manufacturing costs they would completely kill your $1,500 computer. For that they could add RAM and Zen and go with more power on the GPU. X is pretty much unbeatable on price right now.
@nx-whoa slow down there with explaining facts
Them Xbots believe in cloud power, they'll believe anything Microsoft throws at them.
I won't deny that the XB1x (stupid name IMHO) has interesting hardware but for the author to state that it is as good if not better than a multi-thousand dollar (assume USD) shows he is out of touch although if you are going to compare against top of the line laptops then yes you may be looking at $2000 USD plus. Of course, he may be referring to the Surface Pro laptops which cannot be repaired since they are basically glued together.
If you build or get built (costs extra) a desktop PC for under $2000 USD you can get a "beast" of a machine including a decent 1400p or 4K monitor that will literally make the XB1x look like an abacus. That said the hardware of the XB1x is still very good value for the price although I have not factored in the price of a "decent" 4K display.
Most powerful console ever, can't wait for the XBOX!
console games are cheaper at the end! (they are a real thing for console gamers, its a real product like a TV, bed, washing machine, its a thing you own, it has a value, like gold, you can and must at some point sell it, so other dude can enjoy it....... its a fact, its like with cars, I BUY CONSOLE GAMES (I RENT PC GAMES!), I can sell them at the price I want, and they cost a lot when new, and keep value for many years...
We have multi-thousand dollar gaming PC's at work. They run about $4-8K each. They run circles around almost every elite PCMR system because they use development level hardware which isn't often available to the public yet.
So, when MS says this, I just have to laugh. For games built that can take advantage of them, they make the current consoles look like an Atari 2600. While they aren't Pixar level quality of graphics in real time capable, they're probably as close as you'd see in the next ten years.
I put together a spec build of all the highest end parts about 6 months ago, and it ran me about $3K without a monitor, which would be another $1000. It would run circles around the current consoles and X1X as well.
If forza 7 looks as good as one of those kinds of PC's, then they didn't do much to make Forza look better. Lowest common denominator and all that. The more power, the more they actually have to code and create to actually take advantage of it. If your build only uses 6 levels of shaders and baked lighting, it's not going to look as good as a game that uses 12 levels of shaders with full dynamic lighting. It just doesn't work like that.
what if someone doesnt want to game on a pc?
The headline is implying that x1x tech is comparable to a multi thousand $ pc, and nx is stating facts on why this is a obvious lie. This isn't about preferences.
Then you don't know what you're missing because of a narrow-minded view. It's literally the same to a console these days, only with MULTI-THOUSAND more uses.
Everyone is free to choose a system for its own reasons. But still the question remains, if a builder lies about the specifics of a certain product and people end up deceivingly choosing a product because of said lies, then there is deshonesty.
MS still continues in the same course, they have done it before, and they keep doing it now. They never learn.
then buy an xbox 360 LOL
Your opinion isnt fact, stop thinking it is. Some people have no wish to play video games on PCs - no biggy Princess.
don't be stupid we all got super powerful pc's next to our ps4's 😂
You "PC" fanboys are so sad. Let's just say perhaps someone does not want to game on a PC because they work all day on a PC and the last thing they want to do is be on a PC to relax at night. I have a very powerful PC at home for Graphic Design/Illustration/animation, but sure as hell don't' wanna game on it for gaming. I know that's hard to comprehend from your mothers basement, but there you go. Has nothing to do with cost or knowledge, it's just a NO Thanks!
? I'm not sure what that statement really means I'm not sure any of that really matters.
At the end of the day when you hook your PC up to a TV and you put on a controller I'm pretty positive you're still playing a game like you would on any other device.
So when you say doesn't want , what do you actually mean? They specifically choosing not to? I mean in that respect your kind of answering your own question so I don't fully understand what you mean.
So I mean what if someone doesn't want to? well I guess they just don't want to.....your point?
@cd-that is not an opinion that the PC has more uses than a console
that is actually a fact you literally objectively can do more things with a PC then you can a console that is not a subjective View...
@kic-buddy no one understands what you're talking about because a game console in layman's terms is still actually a computer , it's simply a form factor with a specific operating system designed to do a set number of things.
Put it this way if you have Steam OS and you put on the steams home theater or console overlay you're basically doing the exact same thing you would have did when you turned on a console, select your games and pick up your controller.....
I'm not understanding what it being a PC actually matters you're literally arguing semantics.
I mean if steam came out and said they were making a console and they simply just put in the Steam OS overlay are you telling me you would turn it on turn on your TV and pick up the controller and feel uncomfortable because you find out it's a PC? I mean think about what you're actually suggesting? Have you not considered the PlayStation 4 and Xbox One are simply just form-factor PCs with a specific operating system?
So what about PC is going to make you feel uneasy? If you could explain that then sure but at the end of the day it just sounds extremely stupid.
Are you one of those Gamers that's so uneducated about PC gaming that you don't know you could hook it up to your TV? Do you not know you could also use a regular game controller?
Of course a PC has more uses - we all know that!
I was referring to "Then you don't know what you're missing because of a narrow-minded view", just because somebody else doesn't want to play on PC doesn't mean they are narrow minded but looking at it now the response was vague.
My point is still valid, people play on the platform of their choice because of a number of reasons, i use PS because I like the exclusives and all my mates play MP games on PS too, I've built plenty of gaming rigs in the past but right now PS4 Pro fits my needs perfectly. Personally I find PC elitists are the most narrow minded of gamers and are far more likely to dismiss console gaming as apposed to the other way around.
Devil's advocate: Volta GPUs won't drop to anywhere near the One X price anytime soon (much less an entire rig built around it). By the time they do, the One X will have dropped, too. Also, one benefit of the One X (and PS4 for that matter) is having GDDR5 accessible as primary system memory. A PC with a GDDR6 for the GPU is still likely gonna have slow-ass system RAM. Say what you will but consoles are definitely more efficient in fundamental design (because they are designed towards a single purpose).
What does Volta have to do with anything?
And if you can find even one instance where ram was any kind of significant bottleneck on PC I encourage you, to post a link. Most all textures can be loaded into vram and if there is going to be a bottleneck in any system it would be the storage because all modern ram is still faster than storage (especially mechanical hard drives with X still uses). But all that is irrelevant since for the past 15+ years basically all developers have figured out ways to load textures on the fly as people move though the world (in games where all the textures aren't loaded at level start that is).
You could've saved that comment literally by putting 1+1 together.
Once Volta drops the CURRENT GPU prices will drop by at least 30%. Noone said you need to buy a next-gen GPU to outdo the XB1X, a GTX1080 already runs laps around it.
As far as I am aware GDDR6 is not available yet although it is supposed to come out in 2018. Until then GDDR5 is the way to go. http://www.pcworld.com/arti...
Lol I love it😂
Dev say forza plays at the quality not that 1X matches. A $2000 pc would beat it but it would be hard to tell considering a $1500 pc vs 1X was hard to tell
Turn 10 are making the PC version of Forza 7. If they decide to cap it at 60fps and 4k, and only offer graphics settings up to the same level as the XBox One X version, then he's right; no amount of money spent on PC hardware will make a difference.
That's not something he should brag about though!
You're right, but $500 will actually get you a full PC, equivalent to the X1X even. You're right though, you can do much better, for way cheaper if you pick up an old office Dell off ebay with an i5-2500 or something, and just pop a nice gpu in there. But if you do want to buy all new parts, you can have yourself a Scorpio comparable PC right now for $500: https://pcpartpicker.com/li...
Edit - inb4 "what about the OS?" You can get linux, or if you must have windows, it's dirt cheap on ebay.
That processor would be awful for gaming.
@The 10th Rider It's not awful, it's quite capable as an entry level CPU (I've built a couple PCs using them already), it's almost identical to the older i3-6100 in terms of performance, at almost half the price. That being said, the CPU in the Scorpio is by far it's weakest component, which is why I chose a comparable CPU for this build. This one is actually probably more capable than the X1X cpu, which is probably closer to an FX-8300. The g4560 WILL bottleneck the GPU however, it would make sense to put a stronger CPU in it, but once again, X1X is basically a midrange rig, with a budget CPU, so I made the same thing in this build. It doesn't make a lot of sense, but that's what MS has done.
can a 580 do 4K @ 30fps? You can't just use raw numbers and claim equivalency, because consoles will always have more direct access to GPU power since they are all SOC design without ridiculous go-betweens that PC parts will always have.
But thanks for at least putting together the list, it definitely looks pretty darn comparable.
@Neonridr It depends on the game, frankly (and settings). Since there's no way to get "dynamic scaling" or checkerboard rendering on PC games (that I know of), it's hard to do a 1 to 1 comparison with Scorpio games. But yes, you're right, optimization is a huge factor that also makes a direct comparison difficult.
Edit - There's not a lot of examples I was able to find on youtube yet of the 580 (it's still relatively new), here is Prey running in 4k though, hovering around 30-40 fps. https://www.youtube.com/wat... Outlast 2 gets around 100fps at 4k: https://www.youtube.com/wat...
Crysis 3 gets about 30 in 4k: https://www.youtube.com/wat...
Pfff hahaha this would barely be able to play minecraft at 4K 60.
PCworld tried building the magical $500 wannabe Scorpio PC. It didn't work out.
If PCworld says they can't build it then no one can so stop with these pathetic attempts.
@The 10th Rider,
An old I5 wouldn't be terrible, but I swear you had an old 2-core processor there when I first commented, something that would probably struggle to even run Battlefield One. Numbers-wise it may have been comparable to the Xbox One X's, but that doesn't translate directly to the same real-world performance.
Wow, I must be getting senile. That should have said @bluefox755
Lol dude, instead of saying all that, just say that you don't want anyone to buy an xbox. You'd be saving alot of time to play the quality exclusives you own.
I really don't care what you guys buy as people on the internet can't be persuaded anyway, it's the constant lies from Microsoft that need to be exposed.
Please build a PC before running your mouth. I built a very nice i7 7700K/GTX1080 4K machine. It cost me close to $3000. You can build a pretty competent machine for half as much using less expensive parts and get pretty close to the numbers my build produces, but it won't be the same. The amount your spend will determine how capable your machine is. My CPU and GPU were $1000 alone not including system memory, HDD, SSD, OS, case, PSU etc. You kids saying you can do the same for $500-$1000 need to put up or shut up since you contribute nothing intelligent or relevant to the discussion.
I don't have to build a PC, people already did it and came to around 650$
BUT - I'm pretty sure that like 90% of the people interested in Scorpio already have some kind of PC at home - so they can save at least a few of the parts mentioned in the article. And any part you save including game costs and monthly subscriptions would enable you to invest more into the GPU.
Says the one not contributing something intelligent or relevant to the discussion....
"You can build a pretty competent machine for half as much using less expensive parts and get pretty close to the numbers my build produces"
This statement contradicts the entire point of your comment. Why pay an extra $1500 for barely better? The whole point of this discussion is that you can build a PC more powerful than the xox for $1500 or less which makes the multi-thousand statement a complete lie. Your senseless rampage is contributing a lot less than the comment you are replying to.
You are incredibly misguided if you think you are running 4K competently with a GTX1060. I took back my GTX1070 and exchanged it for a GTX1080 because I don't like playing under 30fps. The GTX1060 is a great 1080p GPU. Your link doesn't include the OS, controller, UHD drive or optical drive in general.
Like I said, it's nice that you can try to find things to support your position, but until you actually build it and see for yourself you won't be able to form an intelligent opinion of your own. I built a 4K PC and know what it's capable of. The stats I'm giving you are the stats I can actually see and measure. My opinion is based on what I see from experience. Your opinion is based on what you want to see and you are trying to find things to support it instead of basing your opinion on reality.
From the specs people that know what they are talking about are seeing, the PS4 Pro is equivalent to a PC running a GTX1060 and Scorpio is closer to a system running a GTX1070. Direct comparisons are difficult because the consoles are running more efficiently then a PC with the AMD cards these consoles are based on. This is why they are using NVidia instead. PC's are less efficient than a dedicated console which is why Scorpio's performance is more inline with my 1080 based PC. It's impressive what both Sony and Microsoft are accomplishing with their consoles.
Your $650 PC build won't even boot up and once you add the needed components it won't touch a Pro or Scorpio in real world performance.
Like I said, don't take my word for it, build it so you actually know.
First, I didn't say barely. Second, I built my PC with SLI and pretty aggressive overclocking in mind. If you are content to run a single GPU at stock speeds you can spend less and get reasonably close to where I am. The additional money I spent was on a motherboard made for overclocking and optimized for SLI. I also spent over $500 on my water cooling kit which has a larger pump and reservoir for better themal efficiency and the ability to run coolant to my CPU and GPU's. https://us.msi.com/Motherbo... I could have spent more, but this was what I choose as a stopping point. You need to set a goal when building and stick to it or else you can go way over budget very easily.
@nx "Noone said you need to buy a next-gen GPU to outdo the XB1X, a GTX1080 already runs laps around it."
A gtx 1080 in Australia start from $730-$950 depending on the exact card. So minimum $730 for the gpu alone.
Xbox X is $639.
It is seriously not a good comparison.
Also the 1060 in your build comparison will not keep up with Xbox X. Swap it for a 1070 to guarantee equal and / or better performance. Plus due to Windows 10 you will possibly need 16gb ram.
Lol, a PC can easily murder the XBX with the right specs.
This exaggeration is hilarious at best.
Even gtx 1080ti is not enough for most games in 4k 60 fps high settings, 300 usd? You are delusional. And for such GPU you need a expensive cpu, you are even more delusional.
This is true i own a asus 1080ti overcloked.
lol and you are saying the Xbox One X, with an equivalent to a RX480, will do?
10x bigger the library what an absolute joke. If that's the case guess my phone owns pc. Has 20x the games of pc. The games are way cheaper . Dont have to worry about broken ports and beg for more console ports. Have even more all in one center and not have not worry about a behometh tower on my entertainment center. Don't have to build it, maintain it either.
Your phone doesn't play Xbox exclusives though, that's the actual KO argument these days. But sure... feel free to use your stupid phone as an argument.
If you downplay his argument as stupid, you're doing the same to your own argument you know?
Feel free to call your own argument stupid.
How this fanbase really think that a 500 dollar console will perform better than a GTX1080 like come on lets be realistic for a moment
They're not. The developer said to run Forza 7 at the exact same level of performance on PC would cost much more than the price of the 1X.
I don't believe that the 1X outperforms a 1080, based on what I've read, but given that I'm finding listings for the 1080 at $800aud and upwards, that solidifies my position that a $500 console that can achieve that Forza 7 performance is much more worth my money
Even if you build a PC that exceeds the X's power, at that price range, you're still going to get worse performance. While DX12 made great strides towards better optimization on PC, it's still nowhere near the level of optimization that consoles get. That's a fact. Having a more powerful PC doesn't automatically mean we're going to outperform the X, because much of our PC's power isn't utilized efficiently.
And as for your comment about that $500 PC playing all games at 4K at any framerate? You are full of shit, and you know it. You are not playing games in 4K, at decent framerate, with a $300 GPU. And certainly not without turning the graphics down considerably, medium at the highest. Again, just because a $300 GPU matches the X in power doesn't mean it gets the same level of optimization.