Yesterday, it took all of about thirty seconds for the conversation surrounding the reveal of the Xbox Scorpio from “Wow, that’s a really powerful system” to “Specs mean nothing if there aren’t any good games.”
It's ridiculous how many people are actually treating Scorpio like it's an entirely new consolen unto itself rather the iterative console that it is
True! Scorpio is just an upgrade for the dedicated gamers and will be priced as a premium console, just like Pro. They are not meant to replace the base models, and not everyone will make the jump. And thus, Scorpio will face the same lack of first party exclusives as the Xbox One. This is an Xbox problem as a whole, not scorpio alone.
Yes good on Microsoft for being competitive and bringing the fight in terms of hardware.
That's less than half the battle though.
Bring the games. That's more important.
What PS4 has shown is that you don't even need massive power to have a successful platform.
Look at games like Yakuza, Persona 5, Nier, Nioh etc. These games aren't exactly the best looking visually or doing things tremendously in terms of visual fidelity or power. They are good quality games.
Yes having your gfx powerhouses like Horizon are good showcases for your platforms capabilities but it all comes to games.
So Yeah, all the hyperbole aside over Scorpio (aka THE BEAST...i will stop one day), Xbox desperately needs to bring the games.
This is spot on from the article:
"The problem is that Microsoft’s lack of excellent first party exclusives is a systemic problem, one that has taken root with Microsoft failing to water their own garden for years."
People keep talking about Microsoft's 'lack of excellent first party titles', which just isn't true. Many of the games people bring up in regards to Sony's "first party" . . . Yazuka, Persona 5, Nier, and Nioh, for instance . . . are Japanese third party games. I definitely agree that Sony's true first party content this gen has edged out Microsoft's, but people keep acting like those third party games are owned and developed by Sony themselves. Microsoft needs to court more third parties in order to thrive, (which isn't going to happen in Japan, so they'll have to court Western third parties).
I agree that Microsoft needs to do better with its first party output. But I don't agree with this narrative some are peddling that exclusives are all that matter. I think price, hardware power, features and ecosystem are other factors that matter to people.
The reality is, most games are multiplatform games. By far. And Microsoft does make first party games as well, even if not as many as Sony.
I currently do most of my gaming on PC and don't plan to get an Xbox Scorpio, but if I was in the market to buy a console and I could only buy one console it would probably have to be the Scorpio. Even though it has somewhat fewer exclusives the advantages in other areas would be more valuable to me overall.
Exclusives are too few in number to outweigh the benefits of having most of my games look and run better, along with backwards compatibility.
I guess that's a big part of why I prefer PC gaming. I love backwards compatibility and I care a lot about how good my games look and run. I do enjoy playing some Sony games on my PS4 Pro and the console is pretty great overall, but I can understand why some primary console gamers might prefer Scorpio. (Personally, though, I would just get both if I could.) Again, this is only what I would hypothetically do if I stopped gaming on PC and could only buy one console.
You guys keep acting like hardware was MS big problem yes their console is weaker than the Ps4 but that didn't stop xbox fans from buying the console, hell they even said graphics don't matter it's all about the games right? So tell me what's changed like seriously.
You forgot mention the attach rates for Recore, Sunset Overdrive, Halo Wars 2, Quantum Break, Ryse, Dead Rising 4, Ori and the Blind Forest etc. etc.
Anyway, individual attach rates for games mean very little because not each game appeals to everybody. People have different tastes and limited incomes. They cannot buy every good game even if they wanted to. Besides, the higher the hardware sales go, the lower the attach rates fall because game sales do not increase proportionately with hardware sales. A game selling 2 million copies at 10 million consoles would not suddenly sell 20 million copies if they console reached 100 million. Finally, high attach rates are easiest to achieve when the installed based is smaller and game lineup small. So you see it is a very tricky and skewed number which can mean a variety of things.
The only thing that matters to developers and console manufacturers is the absolute number of software sold. Attach rates mean nothing to them. Attach rates do not generate money; software sales do. Supposed there were only 2 PS4s in the world and both owners bought Uncharted 4 which means the game has an attach rate of 100%. That 100% attach rate does not makes it more profitable than a 10% on a 60 million installed base. That is why you would never see a developer talking about attach rate for their game. They reach their sales target and they are satisfied with it.
@The 10th Rider
No one cares who or where those games were made the beginning and end of it is you can play them on PS4 and you can't play them on Xbox.
And it's not preferential treatment. It's a fact that this type of game will not sell enough units on Xbox. Xbox hasn't even sold 500,000 units in Japan. On top of the fact that Xbox owners themselves say they wouldn't even buy these games.
Basically you are saying...
MS is trying to compete with the PS4 Pro Hardware wise...Fact.
MS is doing a terrible job providing software to utilize that hardware...Fact.
MS needs to do better...Fact.
Yet people are down voting you...hmmm. Oh I know why.
"Look at games like Yakuza, Persona 5, Nier, Nioh etc. These games aren't exactly the best looking visually or doing things tremendously in terms of visual fidelity or power. They are good quality games."
Being good quality games isn't good enough, you have to say they are perfect. Sony sheep truly believe the gaming universe revolves around their platform. It's sad they have such limited experience in gaming.
Haha I know right! Complete submission is required 🙇
You know you hit the nail on the head when you make Septic and co blurt out whatever they can think of to try and fail at justifying the abysmal exclusives state of Xb1. Cut them some slack thu, it really is that bad
All I was pointing out is that people say that it's Microsoft's first party that is the problem, then count third party as party of Sony's "firsty party" lineup. I said that Microsoft needs to get more of those third party games on board. Basically people are pointing fingers at the wrong issue when it comes to the Xbox One's lack of exclusives. Without third party exclusives, the PS4 and Xbox One's lineups are fairly comparable. With third party exclusives the PS4 blows the Xbox One out of the water. There's no way Microsoft can build enough first party studios to counter the number of third party studios making games that never hit Xbox One.
@FallenAngel1984 Since the spec reveal 2 days ago, you think it would have sunk in with some of the slower people by now.
Yeah but it doesn't matter what it is if it doesn't fix the current problem. Honestly, the fact that it's so much more powerful is almost a waste as it has the capability of splitting an already frustrated base.
And the problem is that 4k is not a mainstream thing yet. It's getting better but why buy a new console to get better post production improvements? To take full advantage you need a 4k TV.
All I need is one killer app to justify getting this and I'll grab multiplat single player games for it. But even with a 4k TV I am not buying it just to play them.
When the pro was rumoured everyone was negative saying there is no point and it splits the install base. Why not the same reaction for this ? I don't get it.
Yes it is not a new generation console but it brings native 4K.
What exactly have Forbes said here that you think is wrong?
Xbox needs more software to grow, I made a comment earlier regarding this.
Septic you know exactly what I meant, there was a thread on the ps4 n4g community page about it two weeks ago.
Instead, I really do think the core appeal of the Xbox Scorpio will be that it can act as a supercharger for multiplatform, third party games. It wants to be the console you play those games on, given that it apparently can give you 4K 60 fps without breaking a sweat. The case being made by Microsoft is essentially "Do you really need those couple great exclusives on PlayStation or Switch when you can play all third party titles running at their ultimate maximum potential?"
Lol maximum potential will be on pc and I highly doubt a lot of the huge games like red dead 2 will run 4k 60fps on Scorpio
Maximum Potential Third Party Game = PC
Is this the same imbecile that penciled the moronic forbes article a day or two ago?
Alright I'll go with your pc is maximum potential, now you gonna give me $800 dollars to build the damn thing?
No. I do not believe in handouts for people that only want something for free.
Besides if you are either too lazy to learn something about inexpensive PC builds or else lack the talent to do a simple google search and thus begin your road to PC literacy then you are not worthy of the answer.
You do not need $800. You need $300 then combine that with the over $500 you were going to spend on Scorpio. There is your $800.
Do you want to go back and tell the individual at forbes to quantify their remark?
My bet is rdr2 will run on 4k 60fps scorpio
You obviously aren't a betting man.
Hey, no bet is a sure-bet.
4k 30fps I can see happening, maybe even a 1080p 60fps mode, but not [email protected]
Should be easy if Xbone will be able to run the game AT ALL. In fact, ANY game that Xbone can run should be very easy to get to 4K (not the 60fps so much with that similar CPU though).
Things like the animation systems or any oter super advanced tech potential will already be getting hit with massive compromises long before the game got into development anyway.
Scorpio is more powerful than a 1070
You wish 😂😂😂
@ShadowKnight He doesn't wish, he reads. I know it is early overall and much more testing has to be done but, DF did actually mention that in it's break down. They felt it was performing between a 1070 and a 1080 in power. Actually, where the 1070 showed some issues on the PC those did not appear to happen on the Scorpio; it did not suffer at the same level of issues and the Scorpio still had plenty of headroom left.
Just so you don't have to find what I am referring to I have copied over that bit here.
DF: From what I've seen so far, there is some evidence that Scorpio's true 4K performance could pose a challenge to the likes of Nvidia's GTX 1070 and AMD's Fury X-class hardware. I've seen Microsoft's new console running a Forza Motorsport 6-level experience locked to 4K60 on the equivalent to PC's ultra settings - cranking up the quality presets to obscene levels was one of the first things developer Turn 10 did when confronted with the sheer amount of headroom it had left after a straight Xbox One port. Out of interest, we tested Forza 6 Apex with similar settings at 4K on GTX 1060, 1070 and 1080. Frames were dropped on GTX 1060 (and a lot of them when wet weather conditions kicked in), while GTX 1070 held firm with only the most intense wet weather conditions causing performance dips. Only GTX 1080 held completely solid in all test cases. It's only one data point, and the extent to which the code is comparable at all is debatable, but it certainly doesn't harm Scorpio's credentials: Forza 6 Apex received plenty of praise for the quality of its PC port.
I read too.The only game he compared it too was Forza a racer. Lets see if it can outperform the gtx 1070 while playing Witcher 3 and Dues Ex LMAO. Forza really??? Just to let you know the Scorpio is still using an old laptop cpu. I can guarantee the performance would be different with Dues EX. Next time compare it with a different game instead of a racer. Signing off
I agree with you there. I've seen some people who believe most games will be 4k/60fps on Scorpio based on the fact they were able to get Forza 6 to run at those figures quite easily. However, I think these people are setting themselves up for disappointment.
Hardware demands differ greatly from title to title. We have to remember that Forza 6 was already a 60fps title. The CPU in Scorpio is the least upgraded part in the console, despite its customizations. The Jaguar CPU is more often than not the limiting factor preventing XB1 and PS4 games from reaching 60fps. Even with its customizations I strongly suspect that the Scorpio's CPU will still often be the bottleneck preventing many games from reaching 60fps. Although, at 4k resolution some games will be limited on the GPU side of things too.
it will still have the best version available for console owners throttled or not.
Absolutely. I'm not saying it isn't a well designed machine. I'm just saying that people should temper their expectations on the idea of 60fps in most games. I think some games will reach that mark, but I believe the majority will run at 30fps. You're right, though, that it is a very powerful console and will provide the best versions of multiplats out of all consoles.
"it will still have the best version available for console owners throttled or not."
And it will not matter. PS4 Pro was at no. 95 on Amazon for February.
The month before Horizon ZD launched. The same month Horizon was at no 1. People do not care about graphical power as much as the small circle of people on gaming forums think. Games matter more than power and unless the Scorpio has some Scorpio only games, not prettier versions but absolutely Scorpio only period then it will get a few months of sales and then fade out.
At a premium price, I'm not sure how important playing multi-plats is going to be that big of a thing. That would be something that may be more applicable at the start of the generation when it's more about the hardcore. We're at the point in the generation where console makers tend to shift over to the casuals and get them to buy in, and their biggest concern is price. In this regard, since X1S is actually going to be cheaper, it may have the upper hand.
You're throwing 40k 60 FPS around like it's some sort of baseline. Lol. Digital Foundry, the YouTube channel that covered the reveal already said in a recent video, and I quote, "Do not expect 60 FPS". He wasn't talking about 4k 60 FPS either but 60 FPS in any resolution.
Take away Sony's 1st party for argument sake and you still have a good amount more of third party on ps4 . This cannot be refuted. So if i like Japanese games im out of luck on Scorpio.. Right now Japan is making great games.
The XB1 failed - in part and technically - because MS wasn't giving it distinctive exclusives. If their focus this time continues to be multiplatform titles, 1st party IPs like Gears and Halo which are losing steam, with the instance of putting games on PC, the Scorpio isn't going to fair any better.
That's the PlayStation fanboy narrative. We shall see if you were right by year end. I know that in this world we live in, tech is a hell of a motivator to buy. Scorpio is loaded with innovation and is a bold move forward, not only in console tech, both efficiency across the entire PC industry.
So you're saying that you'd be happy with nothing but multiplatform titles and PC ports?
Though really, and sadly, this is more about how the system performs market wise than anything towards personal enjoyment. And if that is truly the case, then you've lost already.
I mean, as an RPG fan I've largely lost because much of the genre has become about cinematics sandboxes and loli J-pop. Still, even if it is loli J-pop, I've got Persona 5 and some Gundam games. Games in other genres.
But you and other as presented by many comments, you wont be happy until Xbox outsells Sony. And I hope there's more to you as a gamer than just these comments.
You mean the narrative that has been correct this whole generation I swear you guys get amnesia everytime Ms announces anything that you guys think can save them smh.
Its not a bold step if it doesn't have strong first party games to back it up.
No. You are creating all of that on your own. You said XB1 failed and that it failed because it wasn't given special exclusives. You said that if Scorpio does great any special exclusives, if will suffer the same fate.
First: I would like to say to you that XB1 did not fail, unless fail = not outselling PS4.
Next : All I said in response was that Scorpio's innovation will be what make it more attractive to gamers than X1 has been and we shall see how gamers react after it is released. But you might no have to wait that long. After E3, there will be pre-orders to use as a gage.
I never predicted anything about PS4 and I don't expect Xbox to catch PS4 anytime in the foreseeable future. You are the one spending to much time worried about how Scorpio will affect PS4 rather than looking at what effect it will have on gaming and brings to the tech industry.
The XB1 failed because of launch policies regarding DRM, being built around Kinect which itself didn't work, and not doing anything competent much less innovative regarding games. Again because on online policies, and Kinect.
The PS4 failed because it also was underpowered for what tech-obsessed devs and the vocal segment of the gaming community wanted, which bizarrely enough was competently made games. Sony delivered to a degree, but still needed to put out the Pro and re-do their console. Have idiots talking about like its the second coming of the PS2.
Or were they saying that crap with the PS4 while also complaining about it?
Going back to square one: it doesn't matter if Scorpio is innovative technically if all that's played on it are titles from half a gen ago or ones that look better on $3k and up rigs. When the next console after it comes along those games will look like crap on the Scorpio while what Scorpio title are worth carrying over will look better - and it wont matter. What will matter are the games that define the Scorpio here and now, and right now that's nothing because no specific games have been announced for that specific system.
lol Stop this delirium. Scorpio will not revolutionize gaming or bring wonders to the technology industry. It will do more resolution and frame rate compared to previous consoles
Look at what Sony offered vs Microsoft in 2013 and 2014. If it was about exclusives, no-one would have bought a ps4.
Then how did the PS4 outsell the XB1? So people bought it and allowed it to collect dust?
It *IS* the exclusives that's attracting customers.
Keep spinning though.
Consoles are a *FUTURE*investment not a 1-2 year invrstment.Thats why Sony is murdering MS on all fronts.
What did Ms offer in those years exactly that were good? Also, that was the beginning of the console cycle. This is the 4TH year that we have been in the gen. Devs tend to deliver much better and more experiences as time goes on, not less. This is exactly like the 360. Ms started off great at the beginning and then started sucking later. While Sony continuously bought more and more.
Forza Horizon 2
Ryse: Son of Rome
Little BigPlanet 3
Infamous: Second Son
MLB The Show
Doesn't look like MS did anything amazing at all in those years.
Look at how the PS3 slowly gained on the 360 rather than the 360 widening a sales gap with the PS3?
Don't remember what was being offered between 2013 and 2014, but if that included Scalebound and Fable Legends, guess who that doesn't look good for.
Who gives a shit about 2013 and 2014 in 2017? PS2 had more games than Xbox, so I guess Scorpio will fail.
Not to mention the fact that PS4 had just as many games even though you want to pretend they didn't.
"Then how did the PS4 outsell the XB1? So people bought it and allowed it to collect dust? "
Cheaper Price, better Performance. Remember Resolution Gate?
"Consoles are a *FUTURE*investment not a 1-2 year invrstment.Thats why Sony is murdering MS on all fronts."
Ye, I just wait a few years
Gotta love that incomplete list tho
Forza Horizon 2
Ryse: Son of Rome
Little BigPlanet 3
Infamous: Second Son
MLB The Show
ACTUAL LIST (Since you put in Knack and said worthwhile, you forgot a lot of stuff):
Forza Horizon 2
Ryse: Son of Rome
Dead Rising 3
Little BigPlanet 3
Infamous: Second Son
MLB The Show
Guilty Gear Xrd
In terms of Scale and Quality, Sony had nothing to compete against Forza, Titanfall and Killer Instinct (Maybe if we count that one remaster tho).
If you're using "worthwhile" as a qualifier, doesn't that invalidate the likes of Crimson Dragon and Fighter Within?
That's the problem with d**k measuring lists like yours and Sunny_D's as well: what's exactly in them are often worthless filler.
The truth of the matter is that when MS was pumping out games they failed to attract an audience, where often flawed and/or boring where Sony's were at the very least decent and entertaining. Not that, looking at those lists, I can honestly say that anything on the Sony side qualifies, at the very least I can say that Crimson Dragon, as a supposed spiritual successor to the Panzer Drangoon series butchered into a multiplayer military-themed Kinect title disgusts me as a fan of the series.
Said it once I've said it a dozen times: not really happy with the direction gaming took with the HD gens yet small minded - and yes, only going to speak frankly here - Xbox fanboys only ear what they want to hear as MS's DRM and insistence on Kinect crippled the XB1. Made it fail and be outsold by 2-1 where the Xbox 360 dominated in the US. Something else MS and their fanboys seem overly focused or concerned with to their own detriment.
" Crimson Dragon, as a supposed spiritual successor to the Panzer Drangoon"
Isnt it more like Crimson Skies? And yes, for the goof of it I added those games.
The direction MS is going is the same they always have -> Multiplayer first. I love it, I just don't want to play alone. Playing with friends is more fun and Halo/Gears/Forza/Titanfall/Kil ler Instinct are on top of their game when it comes to MP. Upcoming games are MP too Crackdown/Sea of Thieves/ State of Decay/ Forza.
This is what I want. Of course I would like more games and Im sure MS knows this. That is why I wait for E3 what they will show. If they don't show us a lot, im with you.
Yeah, that is my major bone of contention. That MP and community gaming - group mindedness - has generally supplanted SP gaming. You don't get attempts at interrogate or engaging gaming moments, just water-cooler or Twitter ones. Youtube and Twitch channel streaming fodder.
Also. can't tell if you're mistaking Crimson Dragon for Crimson Skies on purpose or as a joke.
Xbox One isn't a failure
MS only dropped or reversed everything about it, are putting out *TWO* consoles to compensate for its shortcomings and has been outsold by its competition by 2-1, but sure, it's not a failure.
Actually and honestly, if you enjoy the system and the games on it, it's not. You just have to accept that that you can't defend it in a public forum. That it only gives you something to defend it with when talking to someone who shares your view.
-How does adhering to what consumers want considered a failure? Doing so has resulted in it still selling on par with its predecessor so of course it's not a failure. It's much better than Nintendo that ignored plenty of fans consumers wants with Wii U which resulted in the console flopping.
- Two consoles? I know you're not trying to say Xbox One S is a new console. And Scorpio is just an iterative console like New 3DS and PS4 Pro.
- By that faulty logic that would mean PSP, despite selling 80 million units, would be classified as a failure because it got outsold nearly 2-1 by DS.
Nobody can honestly say Xbox One is a failure when it's still proven itself to be relevant in the face of Wii U outright become irrelevant.
1) Not just about customer satisfaction, but making return on investment. Turning a profit. And if you look at what MS has put into the Xbox brand, they are neither getting nor giving their money's worth.
Xbox1 was about putting Kinect into homes, making it a revenue source by way of ads and meta-data, just as DRM was about taking the whole used-games pie from Gamestop. All those plans fell apart with the reveal and MS had to scrap in-motion plans while also overhauling them while they were in motion. That's money gone they ain't getting back plus cash they expected to yet never saw.
2) If Scorpio and XB1S do things the XB1 can't, namely 4k, then they're new systems.
3)Yeah, the PSP was a failure. So is the PSV. Sony didn't know what to do with them, made them supportive rather than their own systems, the PSP especially was hacked early into it's life, so it (they) failed. Just like the original Xbox did yet - somehow - was significantly regarded as being #2 and ahead of Nintendo while the PS2 outsold it 5-1.
- That still hasn't caused Xbox One to become a failure akin to Wii U, Saturn, Dreamcast, Atari 7600. Those were legitimate failures while Xbox One continues to be a viable platform.
- They aren't new consoles, they are iterative consoles. Until a console has its own set of unique games that it can play then you can call it a new console.
- The PSP is in no definition a failure. It sold more than every Nintendo console except Wii. PSP received plenty of support, so Sony clearly knew how to handle it.
The point is just because a console doesn't come in first doesn't mean it's a failure. Otherwise consoles like Genesis, 360 & PS3 would be considered failures
Again, its a comparative failure considering investment and expected return. Likewise the XB1S and Scorpio are new systems since they exist to compensate for shortcomings in the XB1 caused by making it around the Kinect and under-powering from what Sony did with the PS4. And still both Sony and MS have put out interim systems because neither made proper estimates of what they needed.
It's not a failure is staying a relevant console, which is what matters.
Xbox One S is just a slim model. That's happens for nearly every console and handheld, so it's nothing new or something to make a big deal about. Scorpio is in the same boat as New 3DS and PS4 Pro. So it's not something you can single Microsoft out for when Sony and Nintendo do the same thing.
Neither Sony or Microsoft could've released more powerful consoles at launch because then it'd be a lot more expensive
What has it done to stay relevant? It either doesn't have any major titles coming out for it or they've been canceled. And usually, when a slim is put out it actively replaces the original model. Yet as far as I know the original XB1 is still being rolled out. Also slims are just announced as being the slim model. With no major advertising of it doing something the original can't.
As for Scorpio, it's just a placeholder name. Unless its called along the lines of XB1 Plus, XB1 More, or XB1 Pro, its going to be a new console. One that will be BC with XB1 while being forward compatible to the console that follows it. And that one wont be called the XB1 either.
If the XB1 is still currently relevant, its only because MS still says it is and game sites along with fans have to carry the banner. But as soon as they stop its going to be less talked about than the original Xbox.
Xbox One gets major games every month. You can find original models of any console or handheld months after the slim version comes out. Once again you're unnecessarily singling XO out to fulfill an agenda.
DSi can do things original DS couldn't. GBA SP could do things original GBA couldnt. PS3 Slim could do things original PS3 couldn't. Xbox 360 S could do things original 360 couldn't. Once again this is nothing new.
There's nothing that indicates that Scorpio is a successor. It's been reiterated various times this is an iterative console.
Companies do not release most of their games on a irrelevant console. You don't see anything getting announced on Wii U while you see plenty of games announced on Xbox One. It doesn't get any clearer than that.
OK so in your mind godmars, how does capitalism work? Because from what your saying burger king must suck since mcdonalds are beating them right? Damn sales figures doesn't mean a console is a failure, just means it's not in first place.