Scorpio is console hardware pushed to a new level

Eurogamer: "Opinion and analysis from Digital Foundry's Rich Leadbetter, based on our exclusive deep dive with Microsoft on the next Xbox's tech."

[darthv72]

You can only push the hardware via software so they must have something really special planned at E3 to show it off.

[Bigpappy]

Did you read the reveal. It is even pushing existing games to the next level. Of course newer games will perform even better. Exclusive or not.

[christocolus]

You should read all the Eurogamer articles. This thing is amazing. DF says Scorpios GPU could pose a challenge to Nvidia's GTX 1070 and AMD's Fury X-class hardware (performance wise)

http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

"The bottom line is that Scorpio's six teraflops will almost certainly go a lot further than an equivalent PC part. I asked Microsoft about this specifically, and they raise a number of good arguments that make the case strongly. Firstly, that their shader compiler is far more efficient than PC equivalents (think of shaders as native GPU code). Secondly, addressing the hardware directly via their API and with access to console-specific GPU extensions again adds to the advantage of a fixed platform box. And finally, they point to their optimisation software - PIX (Performance Investigator for Xbox) - as a tool that provides the path to console-specific optimisations that PC simply cannot get.

From what I've seen so far, there is some evidence that Scorpio's true 4K performance could pose a challenge to the likes of Nvidia's GTX 1070 and AMD's Fury X-class hardware. I've seen Microsoft's new console running a Forza Motorsport 6-level experience locked to 4K60 on the equivalent to PC's ultra settings - cranking up the quality presets to obscene levels was one of the first things developer Turn 10 did when confronted with the sheer amount of headroom it had left after a straight Xbox One port. Out of interest, we tested Forza 6 Apex with similar settings at 4K on GTX 1060, 1070 and 1080. Frames were dropped on GTX 1060 (and a lot of them when wet weather conditions kicked in), while GTX 1070 held firm with only the most intense wet weather conditions causing performance dips. Only GTX 1080 held completely solid in all test cases."

[thekhurg]

Hitting target framerates is nice.

[darthv72]

I read it and watched the vid. What I am meaning is that while this hardware will push the existing software... it is new software that will need to push the hardware. We will get to that at some point and really see what it is capable of.

[OpieWinston]

Maybe it'll fix Just Cause 3 on X1. God that games barely playable at times.

I'm very pumped to see what devs will be patching their games if it only took 2 days for Forza to do this...

https://cdn.gamer-network.n...

[himdeel]

Two thoughts.

What games are Xbox 1 people buying this year that will pushed to the next level on Scorpio?

What games that have been released before 2016 on Xbox 1 that people are going back to play again with this new power?

Generally speaking lack of console specific exclusives to the mid gen upgrades, PS Pro included, will always limit the scope of games and depth of these consoles. But oh man the graphics.

[PistolsAtDawn]

"...but I don't WANNA believe it"

[christocolus]

Lmao XD

back to topic..... DX12 is now inbuilt into the hardware also porting and updating games is extremely easy. That is forza 6 running native 4k60fps on ultra settings with much more room to spare. MS did an amazing job with this thing... https://pbs.twimg.com/media...

"Microsoft has made a commitment that (unlike PS4 Pro) all improved Scorpio modes for games must be available regardless of the display that's connected. So even with a regular 1080p TV, you'll be able to choose between performance modes that make the game run better, or resolution modes that will then "supersample" the 4K image down to your 1080p display, which should give you superb image quality - basically, a fantastically smooth and pretty picture. It's like having the ultimate anti-aliasing solution..... Eurogamer

More below..talking about performance

"smashed it. At the same graphics quality settings as Xbox One, the demo ran at a full 4K resolution, at a perfect 60 frames per second. For Xbox One to do this at a standard HD resolution of 1080p uses about 90 per cent of that console's power. Scorpio was only using 60-70 per cent of its resources to run this demo. The graphics settings were then ramped up to the equivalent of the ultra settings on the PC game Forza Motorsport Apex, and Scorpio still didn't break a sweat.

So that means...

Scorpio potentially has enough power not just to run Xbox One games at 4K resolution at the same frame rate - it's got power to spare on improving their looks further, with higher quality graphics settings, smoother frame rates, and more."..................E urogamer

Day One...... :)

[DragonbornZ]

@Biggerboss
They talked about it way too early, as it's utilization was still in its infancy.
Even so it's finally almost here. I expect you to eat your words come E3, no? ;p

[Aceman18]

Great specs and all but unless MS 1st party studios, and MS higher ups are willing to take risks to branch away from fhe same 3 tired franchises these nice specs are not going to be enough for me to spend hundreds of $$$$ on a new system especially since im eyeing a Switch for later this year.

[KakashiHotake]

You call them the same tired franchises yet as PS fanboy you probably never even played them, yet you call them tired? If you want a switch over this then by all means do as you wish, but don't talk bad about something when all this good news is coming out. Your just being a hater.

[Aceman18]

@kak

Hey hurt feelings ive played all 3 franchises halo 1, 2; forza 1, 2 on OG xbox. Gears 1-3 on 360.

I thought halo 1 was meh, and part 2 was hella boring that i quit playing halfway through. Forza just wasnt the racer i thought it could have been for me.

Gears while i enjoyed the first one i just finished off the last two with my friend just to be done with its dumba$$ story. Nowhere im i being a hater, I want them to step up their damn game, games wise and stop being afraid to take risks with new IPs.

So you can take that fanboy bullsh*t elsewhere buddy, ive been gaming since old atari, nes days. Oh and if you want some kind of proof here's my gamertag on xbox

Zero Cool 108.

When you see everything ive played on these consoles please feel free to free as dumb as you sound right now. Always amazes me how quick ppl are to call others fanboy without fully knowing what said person has every played.

[PistolsAtDawn]

MS has actually been doing a very good job with exclusives, they get hit a bit harder by the critics, but there are some fantastic games there. More to the point, with this kind of power and flexibility....Scorpio doesn't HAVE to rely on 1st party games. It's now the UNDISPUTED best place to play multi-plats. Up until PS4 Pro and Scorpio, there was at least some give and take. PS had the better FPS/Res more often than not, but X1 could be argued to have the best network, controller, Play anywhere, and UI (software support). NOW the Scorpio maintains all the benefits X1 had, but adds most power for FPS/RES, Best VR options, and only AR option. So it went from a split in the categories of gaming, to now X1 has the top spot for all the categories of gaming for Multi-Plats.

I already have a Switch, it's awesome, but by NO MEANS would I get a Switch over a Scorpio. More to the point, I already traded in my Day 1 X1, a 360, PS4, Wii U towards my Scorpio funds...I pretty much have it already paid off (if it's $499).

[joab777]

I dunno how to feel. I was nervous about the Pro but it has done what it said it would without splitting the base. In an age in which tech moves exponentially, it feels like a simple improvement.

This does not! This is gonna be interesting because depending upon price, many may want to build a PC. Others will buy it and want it to be used, and not held by by an obviously inferior X1. At some point it would be insane not to. Oh, and the comparisons are gonna make all X1 players feel left out.

That said, I am finally excited about Xbox again. Unfortunately, unlike PS, it isn't because of the myriad number of amazing games which are sorely lacking. Exclusivity will help but ppl play where their friends play first and foremost.

I'll grab one, but I need a killer app and it isn't Crackdown. Maybe I'll just grab the best sp games for it.

And this is also interesting because it really throws next gen into flux! Sony could conceivably announce a next gen console next E3 (2018). I dunno anymore, but I am pretty sure that going forward it will be almost mandatory to be able to play the majority of games on all consoles for the foreseeable future, with particular games requiring the upgrade.

But consoles will hold software back until install bases are large enough, and only a true next gen leap forces ppl to make that decision.

[I_am_Batman]

Some interessting design choices. 1172MHz seems really high indeed. The cooling method must be very efficient to handle such a high clock speed. Other than that pretty much as expected it seems. I'm guessing It'll be 500€ which would be a very good price imo.

[LexHazard79]

He said pretty much the same you get on the 1080 cards

Edit: Im referring to the cooling method.

[I_am_Batman]

Yeah They are using a vapor chamber. Vapor chambers have been used on premium cards with high clocks prior to the 1080. Even though it's a comparatively expensive method it probably saved them some money compared to a lower clocked GPU with more CUs that needed an efficient cooling solution anyways.

[Unspoken]

It's the power delivery which has been improved for lower thermals by increasing efficency and decreasing wasted energy in the form of heat thus allowing the custom cooling solution to to perform well.

[ABizzel1]

The cooling is the only thing I'm worried about. Those clocks are insanely high for a small console box (well generally speaking small console box). They have the right cooling option this time around so overheating should be less of an issue, the real problem is going to be cost.

[kneon]

I wouldn't worry about cooling, they got burned with the RROD and don't want a repeat, I don't think they are stupid enough to cut corners on cooling

[Kokyu]

I am impressed with what they have done and the level of preformace. Good for MS they have decided to shoot for the stars with Scorpio but all that exciting tech is going to cost a pretty penny in other words $$$$$$$$$$$ if this thing is anything less than 600$ Ill be really surprised.

[I_am_Batman]

Well it seems that they've achieved a lot of improvements with some clever and cost effective methods. While 600$ doesn't seem unreasonable it'll shock me if they go even 1$ above that. Keep in mind that the GPU clock is really high to achieve the 6TF. I'm sure that had a negative effect on the cost of the cooling solution however it also means that the GPU can get to 6TF with "only" 40 CUs. My estimate would be 500$-550$ considering this will come out in Q4 of 2017.

[Kokyu]

Your ignoring several things. 1 the mother boards are all custome balanced to each individual APU, 2 the chips are custome at the silcone level and the cooling solution is vapor according to DF which is going to add cost if this thing comes in below 600$ MS is eatting a large portion of the production costs.

[I_am_Batman]

@Kokyu: I'm not ignoring any of these aspects. In fact I've mentioned cooling in my previous comment and hinted at the potential cost benefits of an efficient cooling technology. Being able to raise the clock of the GPU to 1172MHz is a huge and probably cheap performance boost compared to the alternative of having a GPU with up to 50% more CUs at a lower clock.

[Kokyu]

there is nothing cheap about have a custome made GPU, while making the smaller core higher clock rate may save money you lose that savings the more custome you go.

[I_am_Batman]

@Kokyu: What do you mean by custom made GPU? You do realise that this is mass produced hardware right? They've just improved their production techniques to increase consistancy and efficiency. Most of this is R&D not production cost.

[Ceaser9857361]

If they release a 2tb model then that should be 599, and 1tb should be 499..

[rdgneoz3]

1tb will most likely by $599, won't be $499.

[Kokyu]

1tb will probably be 600$.

[brewin]

I really dont see how MS think they can sell this for more than $400usd. Consoles dont sell well above that as has been proven several times in previous console generations. I also dont think launching it holiday 2017 is a good idea. Should be a late summer release for 400. Around early september would be perfect.

[Bigpappy]

Actually I have been betting on an early launch. Late summer songs about right. Should get some on the shelves before Black Friday.

[OpieWinston]

Well thankfully RAMs cheap so 12 GB doesn't put a massive dent in production cost.
And going for a buffed up Jaguar CPU keeps the cost of the machine down.

[SierraGuy]

This thing will be 750 Canadian dollars at launch. Too expensive for a console that the PS5 will mop the floor with in 2 years.

[Kokyu]

2yrs is too long expect a price cut on Ps4 pro, ps4 base and the rumors about Ps5 specs probably by holiday this year.

[Lenrulesdaworld]

then scorpio 2 a year after that, this is the cycle right.

[XXanderXX]

Awesome, awesome

[Condemnedman]

let the downplay begin.........

[LP-Eleven]

Or the victim-claiming begin. Take your pick. Just be happy the damned thing has finally had a proper reveal instead of looking for someone else's opinion, that you'll never meet, to dictate your current day's feelings.

OT: The specs are, indeed, very impressive. I just want some software, and only available on the Scorpio, before I let hype take over!

[raWfodog]

I'm all for improvements in hardware because no matter how well developed a game is, it's all for naught if your system can't optimally process the code. I want to get excited for scorpio but it's too early for me as I'm waited to see the games that they have planned for it. That's, of course, why we're considered 'gamers' and not 'consolers' :) I really hope they show some great games planned for the newest system.

[cfc83]

Great system. It really is next level stuff.

[Kokyu]

Not really its just highly customized. Its still very impressive.

[Str8Chaos74]

Sorry but true 4k 60 FPS on any game is next level stuff for consoles.

[BiggerBoss]

Why is this new system coming out though? Microsoft said the Cloud would make the Xbox One more powerful

[cfc83]

Q4 2017

[super_bruno]

@BiggerBoss move on man. Look forward.

[ScorpianKing]

Must say i'm liking what I see so far, for a mid-gen refresh, same CPU but highly customised is a good way to go, perhaps not the massive upgrade people were hoping for, but never the less impressive. If memory serves me correct a 27% boost in frequency giving an overall 43% compute power up !

Perhaps more impressive is the integration with DX12, were by draw calls that were in their 1000's are down to 11 specific calls (nice), a 60% jump in ram for games alone, with CPU render work load cut down by 1/2 when used with DX12, should make good for RPG's and the like.

In summary I think it will be a sweet machine, although will no doubt draw hate from many angles (is it exclusive games it will not have at the moment?). I think appreciation has to be given to the work gone in to this by MS, think less of the grandiose thoughts of Rizen etc (this would have made it a premium - premium machine and well out of reach to most) and more about the architecture. In this case what you get from the sum of the individual parts seem to be greater than the whole :-) gotta give credit where its due.

Nice one MS - I can't wait to down load my digital games library and smash them in 4K HDR from the start :-)

[cfc83]

They can't bring out overly expensive systems. It has to be at a price where gamers and chistmas shoppers can consider buying one.

[MegaMohsi]

as a PS4 Pro owner I must say this stuff is impressive. Might sway me to finally own both consoles.

[XStation4pio_Pro]

beastly. i love that it can enhance ALL xbox games (even 360) with no patch. thats a fantastic ROI.

[DragonbornZ]

Shame it's Jaguar, but it makes sense. The way they're utilizing it tho and the rest of the system does indeed sound very good.

[FlyingFoxy]

Meh I'll be enjoying my new 1080Ti soon which will be much more powerful than Scorpio & watercooled @ 1440p 165hz, 4k can wait.

[xenz]

I suppose you have a decent CPU, RAM and motherboard to fully ultilize your new 1080ti? Because GPU isn't everything if your other PC components are lagging behind.

[Prince_TFK]

You can't play games with only a gpu. Including the cost for other components your pc will be much more expensive than a Scorpio.

Heck, even your gpu alone would likely cost the same as a Scorpio (or might be even more).

[SirBradders]

If they bring new ip's at E3 I'll consider one if not I'll stick with my pro and wait for the ps5.

[super_bruno]

I wouldn't count on it. Xbox wont have console exclusives anymore.

[--bienio--]

As a Pc gamer I'm waiting Now for E3 2017 and what games M$ Can brings for Pc and Xbox Players!

[Gman32]

Sounds good to me

[Asuka]

I thought this thing was suppose to use a discrete gpu, or maybe i misread/misremember that from somewhere. It being an SoC makes a huge difference. Guess it had to be in order to remain compatible. At least now we know this is just a current-gen refresh, and not a next-gen machine. Definitely not the overhaul i was expecting. The dedicated instruction processor thing is pretty kool tho.

Need to see some games preferably something new

[Razzer]

Will be more interested to see how third party games like Witcher 3 perform in the future. More than likely had to focus on Forza as no other games are optimized for Scorpio.

[Einhander1971]

Fuck specs let's see the specs used in Amazing games. Until then not convinced won't be buying.

[Kokyu]

E3 is where you'll hear that stuff.

[Inzo]

So, DF just confirmed that the Scorpio is a next gen console.

[xenz]

But its not. It's a mid-gen console. They even said it themselves.

[Pancit_Canton]

You might as well buy a PC.

[chris235]

all good and well but without games it could shit out jesus christ on a stick - it still would be a worthless brick.

[King_Lothric]

I can't just imagine how an even greater beast the PS5 is going to be. We will see how this plays out for Ms.

[2cents]

Phil and the Xbox Team deserve a pat on the back.

You won over DF! :o

[Trekster_Gamer]

Man I can't wait for E3,
Scorpio, the ultimate console power in the universe I suggest we use it!

[Trekster_Gamer]

Gotta love the PS4 fanboys disagrees and comments here!!

They are grasping at straws trying everything they can to downplay the power of Scorpio!

Can't wait for E3, this will go a long way into shutting them up at least in the fact of their baseless accusations.

[jlove4life]

Specs sound nice i just wonder will PlayStation lead nintendo switch momentum and current xbox 1 hold the system back for example will rockstar go out their way to make red dead 2 beastly on scorpio or will all scorpio power be used to upscale games; keep in mind i bought day 1 x1 at 499 with 900p and 720 p games i dont see scorpio being less than 499 love for PlayStation aside im pissed ps 4 pro games lacking [persona 5 great game i thought all ps4 games released after november 2016 has pro features persona 5 look the same on og ps4] at least it was 399 i'll be crushed spending half of grand or more on a nother console held back by software from greedy publishers and lazy devs

[jlove4life]

With 55 million sales for PlayStation and approximately 28million for xbox its Funny how last gen ps3 was the scorpio compared to xbox 360 and their componet cables for hd red blue yellow green and all i heard specs dont matter look at the sales now scorpio got hardware edge and sales dont matter look at the hardware hypocritical much :()

[ruefrak]

It's an impressive piece of machinery. It seems very powerful. Of course, The Order 1886 was also technically a very beautiful game, technically very advanced. The problem Xbox has isn't the hardware though. If you look at some of the amazing games that have come out over the last few months there is one thing they have in common. They are not available on XB1. Zelda, Horizon, Nier, Persona, Yakuza, Nioh, and on and on. MS's main problem is they took their first party studios and turned them into Halo, Gears, and Forza factories.

Nobody looked at Forza Horizon and said, "What an ugly game. If only a more powerful machine could make it look better." But sadly, that's all Scorpio is. It will make XB1 games look a little better. That's not enough.

[Trekster_Gamer]

Incorrect, running on Scorpio will make every game XBOX, One look better.
Third party games which is what the majority of what people buy will look a heck of a lot better than anything on PlayStation. It'll also make games that are already released look better on Xbox Scorpio, even games released for the Xbox 360 that are compatible with Xbox One / Scorpio will look and play better.
You act as if the Xbox one has no games, I have news for you third-party games are the biggest selling games not the few exclusives that the Sony PlayStation has.

Can't wait to see
Halo, Forza, Gears,Crackdown, Sea of Thieves, among others running on Scorpio the Beast!

[ruefrak]

Um.... yes. That's what I said. It will make XB1 games look better. But that's all. Better looking games doesn't mean better games. The Order 1886 is a better looking game but it isn't a better game. Meanwhile, the under-powered Nintendo Switch just launched with one of the best games of all time. So power only takes you so far.

[Bronxs15]

"In 2005, Microsoft launched Xbox 360: a piece of hardware at least a year ahead of its time from a technological standpoint, introducing multi-core CPU processing and state-of-the-art advanced graphics technology. PlayStation 3 arrived a year later - an absolute age in technological terms - but the Xbox 360 still shone through. It was the product of a company determined to do everything it could to create the most powerful games console ever made. After the media missteps of Xbox One and the loss of performance leadership, Project Scorpio is a return to that fierce determination to produce the best possible box. This is the result of an Xbox team with something to prove - exactly the reaction we hoped for."

how can people downplay this!?

and this is just the tech reveal..what will they say when we start seeing ps4"pro" vs scorpio face offs??

[Str8Chaos74]

"How can people downplay this!?" Easy it's called delusional fanboys. The system is a beast.

[Starman69]

Rubbish cpu. Console just as limited as the ps4 pro. Roll on next gen.