AMD Ryzen has some performance problems

AMD has finally released their most anticipated processor lineup. Latest tests revealed AMD Ryzen processors have some performance problems.

[ShadowKnight]

Intel is better than AMD Ryzen 😂

[ARESWARLORD]

No Intel is not better than new AMD chips and this is coming from a guy that owns a 6700 k and a 4770 and my two builds. Amd's new Chips are fantastic once all the bugs are worked out

[freshslicepizza]

better at what, price gouging? yes we all know intel makes higher clock speed cpu's that gamers appreciate but for dollar value we can thank amd. it is also great to see ryzen become competitive again and computers are more than just for gaming.

[Lon3wolf]

Then why didn't PS4/Xbox One use Intel chips? ;)

[ShadowKnight]

Too expensive

[Ashlen]

The problem is not that the windows scheduler is working improperly it's that it doesn't understand that Ryzen is two four cores tied together. What is happening with some games is that the graphical workload will split into multiple threads and when the threads are split across the clusters it causes problems. But it's not a problem that can't be resolved. Microsoft could still create a scheduling update that keeps certain workloads together. But most likely what will happen is newer games will just be programmed to lock interdependent tasks to a single cluster. AMD has stated that they are already working with developers for upcoming projects.

That said Ryzen still performs fantastically in gaming performing on par with Intel on many games but it seems that mostly the games where it has problems are what gets highlighted most often. And even then the performance gap is only around 10%. And it still outperforms Intel in most productivity related workloads.

Ryzen is a brand new technology nothing has been programmed to work with it. As programming matures around it things will improve.

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

[Zarock]

You obviously don't know what your talking about.

http://www.techspot.com/rev...

[Ashlen]

Do you have anything specific to say about what I said that was inaccurate?

You link an article that is basically a bunch of benchmarks.

In the article they say this.

"Fixing SMT support should be a relatively easy first step and it will help improve many of the results."

I said this was a fixable problem and even went into detail explaining what the problem was and how it could be fixed.

They also said this.

"When gaming at 1440p things even out considerably as the GPU becomes a bigger factor in the equation. Here the Ryzen 1800X was just 4% slower than the 6900K and disabling SMT actually put the 1800X on par with the 6600K and 5960X."

And this.

"Based on the data above, Ryzen 7 1800X is on average 12% slower than the Core i7-6900K on gaming titles, which seems in line with what we found originally at 1080p."

So I said there was about a ten percent difference (this average says 12% 12% rounds down 10) between Intel with some games performing better. (based on how they are threaded)

So what I said was exactly what this benchmark average shows.

They also said this.

"No, this doesn't reflect real-life gaming scenarios for a high-end GPU today when you'll likely be gaming at higher resolutions and with a certain level of GPU bottleneck, but it does represent where Ryzen stands in raw gaming performance."

I posted a link that shows in game footage with side by side FPS and Core usage between a Ryzen and 1700k that shows nearly identical performance in real world gaming.

So I again ask what exactly are you basing your assumption that I don't know what I am talking about? Because I am going to tell you flat out I do understand quite well and have been reading many articles related to Ryzen.

So I encourage you to give a more intelligent explanation for my lack of understanding than just one sentence and a link.

[Zarock]

"Ryzen still performs fantastically in gaming performing on par with Intel on many games but it seems that mostly the games where it has problems are what gets highlighted most often."

Out of 16 games tested Ryzen still lost, no one Is cherry picking specific games to prove that Ryzen Is slower In gaming. The gap Is even wider with overclocked Intel CPU's.

http://www.gamersnexus.net/...

http://i.imgur.com/g4RIs8P....

You need to realize that this won't be fixed anytime soon If ever at all. AMD dug themselves Into a hole by adopting a brand new technology where no game developer has experience In. It all goes against the (KISS) principle of every programmer In this day and age. Basically they are creating more headaches and problems for everyone around them. New features have to be Introduced gradually In small steps so that It doesn't overwhelm developers.

I apologize for my previous comment, didn't mean to sound harsh.

[tyasia0]

There are games where the performance is nearly identical and others were it is less than optimal. It all depends on how the game is threaded.

Many experts have all agreed the only time there is a problem is when graphical threads are separated across the core clusters. This is in no way a problem that isn't solvable as many experts have agreed.

It can easily be solved in two ways. Microsoft can create a scheduler profile for Ryzen that keeps similar workload threads on the same core. Example would be to keep graphical workloads on cluster one while moving other things like cpu physics audio and other non-graphical threads on cluster two. Even if Microsoft doesn't create a default profile the game developers can simply program threads to run on specific clusters.

And as for your statement that things need to be taken slowly, there isn't anything that's all that different about Ryzen. This is the same as when multi-cores originally came to market. Single cores had higher frequency and performed better on the games that had been released prior to the early multi-core CPU's but over time software caught up. Software became threaded to support multi-core and then all the faster single core cpu's no longer were able to perform nearly as well as the multi-core processors that they previously out performed.

Several game companies are already working to patch their games to improve Ryzen performance. And AMD has stated they are working with over 300 developers working on future games to help them improve performance on Ryzen.

This processor has been out for a week. give it 3-6 months and we'll know better where things are.

Here are some of the games in which the performance is nearly identical. Which shows that when threaded properly games can have nearly identical performance.

The Division 1080p 7700k 126/78 Ryzen 125/78

Civilization VI 1080p 7700k 79/62 Ryzen 79/53

Mafia III 1080p 7700k 109/98 Ryzen 104/93

For Honor 1080p 7700k 176/136 Ryzen 172/129

[Ashlen]

You chose the gamernexus review which is probably the most debated review. If you read up on this review you'll find out that his 1800x was unable to reach full memory clock speeds. If you read his update in the 1700 review which he did after his 1800x he didn't have the memory problem and he got higher scores using that CPU than in the 1800x review.

As for people who use single monitor setups, I'm not going to argue the value of testing at 1080p. I will say that if you take a deeper look at Steam Survey you'll see that the average computer is not the type applicable to the type of person who is buying $400-700 GPU's and $300-500 CPU's.

The average CPU is 2.3-2.9 Ghz with 46% of people using dual core still. The highest average Vram is 1 GB. This shows most people are not using high end hardware. Enthusiasts are much more likely to be using 1440p or 4k.

And on top of that the review shows that in productivity related programs Ryzen at stock performs as much as 40% better than a 7700k overclocked to 5.1 Ghz and that was using a a chip with lower than max memory speeds.

[Zarock]

Ryzen still loses at 1440p gaming, as for 4K It's all GPU bound from there on wards.

As for the windows scheduler Issue, the gaming performance gain from fixing that would be negligible.
There are many other serious Issues with Ryzen such as core latency Issues, and CCX thread jumping that are mainly related to the chips design.

Here educate yourselves both of you. Over and Out.
https://youtu.be/6laL-_hiAK...

[Ashlen]

No your wrong, the only problem is... if even you would even call it a problem is the latency between the two clusters.

The thread jumping is an issue with the design but that doesn't make it a flaw. Again it just requires it's own scheduling profile or more specific threading at the program level.

You keep trying to state that this isn't fixable. but I promise you it is. Many people including AMD themselves have stated it can be including in the video you posted.

This video that you link is one I had previously seen (and watched in it's entirety) . If you listened at the given timestamp they are talking about the fact that this can be patched. There disappointment is that it wasn't patched prior to launch not that it can't be fixed.

You talk about the performance gains as negligible but the difference between Intel and AMD at this point is only 10%

And as for 1440p gaming at that resolution the difference even with the current threading issues according the the very first set of 16 game benchmarks you linked is 4%.

Your trying to prove a point while over looking the fact that in many games depending on how they are threaded perform with out problems. If every single game had problems then I might agree. But that is simply not the case.

And even if it isn't fixed (which it will be) the performance of the chip is still fantastic.

[Zarock]

"Thread Scheduling
We have investigated reports alleging incorrect thread scheduling on the AMD Ryzen™ processor. Based on our findings, AMD believes that the Windows® 10 thread scheduler is operating properly for “Zen,” and we do not presently believe there is an issue with the scheduler adversely utilizing the logical and physical configurations of the architecture." (Take a hint there Is nothing to fix)

By AMD.
https://community.amd.com/c...

I'm done arguing with you.

[Ashlen]

"The problem is not that the windows scheduler is working improperly it's that it doesn't understand that Ryzen is two four cores tied together."

Did you read where I said this in the very first post?

"Going forward, our analysis highlights that there are many applications that already make good use of the cores and threads in Ryzen, and there are other applications that can better utilize the topology and capabilities of our new CPU with some targeted optimizations. These opportunities are already being actively worked via the AMD Ryzen™ dev kit program that has sampled 300+ systems worldwide."

"For the remaining outliers, AMD again sees multiple opportunities within the codebases of specific applications to improve how this software addresses the “Zen” architecture. We have already identified some simple changes that can improve a game’s understanding of the "Zen" core/cache topology, and we intend to provide a status update to the community when they are ready."

And did you read this where they talk about threading optimizations. I.E.ensuring that interdependent threads stay on the same cluster?

This is what I have said in every reply. That optimization is needed. Microsoft task scheduler isn't broken. But it also doesn't know how to handle Ryzen. They could update it. But as I have said the optimization will probably come at the programing level by game developers themselves, by forcing interdependent threads to stay on the same cluster as I stated all through out this discussion.

[bolimekurac]

amd has impressed me, you cant get a 1700x and a gtx 1080 Ti for less then a 6900k cpu or even a gtx titan on their own, you can get a 1800x for a 100 bucks more. thats impressive for the power that you get. gaming and streaming or any type of multi tasking is on ryzens side and gaming BM will improve as devs code for it, its that simple. it wipes intels ass in many things especially when you break it down by dollar .............

[Zarock]

You don't say.

[Dabigsiebowski]

I will never buy another Intel CPU let alone an Nvidia GPU. AMD is all around a better ethical company who actually makes stellar products. Ryzen smokes a lot of Intel CPU's in a lot of things just not gaming atm. But in all honesty, me being a gamer would still take a 1700 Ryzen over a 7700k.