Shuhei Yoshida has acknowledged No Man's Sky and its failings. Gaz from Gameondaily discusses whether Yoshida is correct in excusing Murray for his game's shortcomings
I don't think Sony are completely blameless in the controversy, after all, they're the ones who do the QA testing etc. and helped market the game
That's true. Some of the blame does go on Sony since the two companies worked close on this project, Sony provided their E3 stage and helped Hello Games market NMS. But what Shu said regarding Sean Murray is absolutely correct, he understands some of the criticisms Sean Murray is getting, the man over promised since the first reveal. ↓↓↓ I agree↓↓↓
Oh yeah, and to hell with anyone criticising Shu for this, it's rare an exec actually tells it how it is instead of PR spin
As far as I remember, Sony only promoted actual footage of the game, even if they only took the best bits. The lies all came from Sean Murray himself. Most aren't even that bad or things that can simply change during game development... but claiming there would be a chance to meet other players was one something you can't excuse.
I like his reasons,"he didn't have a PR person." Which in English terms means don't talk so much and be as vague as possible during questioning.
This is my first time ever commenting on this whole fiasco, and I'll share my two main gripes with the whole thing. Firstly, and just by looking at most comment sections when it comes to this game. The majority of people commenting negatively about the game don't actually own the game. And of that majority, you can also see that a bigger portion of them don't even own a PS4. Which leaves us with the question of; "Why exactly are you so passionately bashing a game, you don't own which is on a console that you don't own, at every opportunity you get? I can only think of one possible answer to the question above which is that this is still one industry and that we shouldn't allow deceptive marketing practices to get a foothold in our industry. This is something I want to agree with wholeheartedly, but then my mind quickly goes back to the XBox 360 days where people in this very thread have bought multiple skus of a console they knew would fail. Where people in this very thread defended Project Natal (later named Kinect) even though they were shown undeniable proof that Microsoft hired actors to mislead with the stage demos. Kinect NEVER came close to working like advertised, yet I don't remember this very group of guys in even attacking it, let alone as passionately as you guys seem to do it for this game. Moving on to this current gen, you guys bought the Xbox One on the promise that it had cloud capability that would make it 3x more powerful, (LIES). You guys were also told that the Xbox One cannot work without Kinect attached (MORE LIES). You guys were also told that the Xbox one would NEVER be sold without the Kinect (EVEN MORE LIES). Yet, you guys spent $500 (launch prices) and happily came up with excuses for not getting features you were all promised. But here you guys are lynching a developer who at the most has only done what your lovely Microsoft has been doing for generations now in the gaming industry. And you guys know exactly who you are.... My point here is not to say that this Sean Murray guy is beyond reproach. It would be nice though if the criticism was coming only from those who actually bought the game and played it. Anything else feels disingenuous when you that it comes from people who have willingly bent over and got on their knees for far worse. I bought the game, I played it for about 10 hours and I haven't touched it since because I'm waiting to see if there will be a VR patch for it. If not, then I'll be quite disappointed because I paid $80 for this game (Canadian prices) but I've only ever wanted to play it in VR since I first saw footage of the game. But this disappointment will be my own doing, though, because although he kinda hinted at VR when asked about it and had good things to say about it, he never really outright promised that it would be part of the final game. Anyways, this is getting way too long already... rant over.
@Cupid_Viper_3 "The majority of people commenting negatively about the game don't actually own the game. And of that majority, you can also see that a bigger portion of them don't even own a PS4. " first off, this IS NOT a ps4 only title so stop acting like it is. secondly you have no idea what it is you are even talking about. http://store.steampowered.c... see those reviews that are negative, see the time above of how much they played? now what? what other words of wisdom are you going to share with us now? the rest of your comment totally went off-topic and was about the xbox, why? you obviously have a position in the whole console war madness so do everyone a favor and stay on-topic and most of all, make some sense. thanks.
You are praising Yoshida for not taking any credit as the marketers of the game, and the failings therein? Umm, Sony was Sean's PR. Yoshida seriously slammed the developer, but then said it didn't hurt the Playstation brand because they made off with a ton of money. Pathetic.
@Cupid_Viper_3.... What does Shu throwing Hello Games under the bus have to do with Microsoft? Please tell me. Shu works for Sony not MS. People like u kill me.... those words came straight from a Sony exec. and you find a way to pass blame to another conpany who have nothing to so with the remarks... And then u gonna write a whole essay about it Not a good look on your part at all...
Not critiquing Shu for this btw. It was really refreshing to see him acknowledge the problems with the game. Decent bloke
Didn't Sony publish the game on the PS4? If so they must shoulder some of the blame for the PR...
@Tank That is something I admittedly did not consider.
Would denying it make the situation better?of course not admitting it was all they could do. Remember this is Sony, the ones being silent after a major breach in their network.So admitting that Hello Games did not do a proper job is not decent in my eyes.It's easy to blame someone else.
And you act like an authority on NMS, Septic, but you haven't even played it. NMS is flawed just as EVERY game is flawed, but it doesn't make it a bad game. People apparently would rather believe sensationalists like you than hard facts. NMS IS A 71 ON METACRITIC, it IS a decent game. It is NOT the awful, horribly reviewed game that ppl like this would lead you to believe.
Agreed. What makes me upset is that he's acknowledging this before the creators of the game and its starting to be really clear why Sony probably didn't put their own name on the box or why they didn't even purchase the intellectual property, maybe it's because they saw what the real game was...
Even though Sony did the marketing for the game, you are praising Yoshida for throwing the developer to the dogs? Sony can literally do something messed up like ModBlocking and the fanboys still defend them. Sony can slam a developer for the job Sony was supposed to do, and fanboys still defend them. Amazing.
They are not blames however Shu understands perfectly well what happened with the game that gave it so much negativity. I honestly don't see this as a bad thing as long as Sony learns from this. Most of the blame goes to Sean though. Edit: Im sorry that the first part of my comment doesn't make any sense.
And what happened that gave it so much negativity? Why did The Order get so much hate? Star Wars Battlefront, SFV, and soon to be The Last Guardian? I think it has more to do with than just Metacritic score. Tell me i'm wrong and then see if you can find dozens of hateful articles about the disappointing game called Recore, which by the way has a worse Metacritic score than every one of the games mentioned above. There appears to be a double standard, maybe it's just America, maybe it's just N4G, but it exists.
@i am tyler I don't think there's a double standard. Recore reviewed poorly but Microsoft barely marketed the game. The hype was non existent and the game is not that bad in my opinion... I had no expectations and no promises were given. With that game there's a huge disconnect between the reviews and what actual players are reporting in terms of how good it is.
Just curious, but do you even have any idea about how marketing deals work? Sony does not own the company and has little to no input on anything that goes on with development. They are given a demo and marketing materials from the company they are pair with and have zero idea what is going on besides checking on its development from time and reading the marketing materials provided. The trailers are even cut by the developers them selves or a hired company that has footage provided by the developers. Anything else going on would be "perks" provided with the contact. The only mistake they made was getting involved with them, but based on prior history and ventures it probably seemed perfectly normal. Sean Murray is a liar, he lied to everyone including PlayStation, which is why PSN started refunding the game, which is unheard of until now.
Exactly haha I don't know what these people expect. Sony was there to market the game so the mass market can buy it not the other way around. The marketing team really did their job since the game sold a ton. People are really going over board with this. If one dislikes a product then they learn from it and move along. Damn if only people were this critical with movies, food, etc. that don't meet their expectations.
So Sony is helping with marketing but not PR? If Sony was misled this hard then shouldn't some of that fault also be put on Sony? Shu even admits he played the game before it released, he had to of known what we all thought an hour into the game, that it's nothing what was shown at the demos or promised by Sean and crew. I wouldn't place the whole blame on Sony, but just like the technical issues of Recore a game that is close to MS's hip, some blame should be put on the publisher for marketing a game that turned out to be little to nothing of what was shown to the public.
Exactly. It was the Sony Hype machine that made this game able to sell at 60 dollars. No one in their right mind would pay 60 dollars for an indie game from a tiny studio normally.
Many Xbox Fans accuses us from being overly protective of Sony, but this one they could've handled things better. At least, he acknowledges the missing features, but couldn't they update the game and add those features in the long run? What pisses me off the most is that Sean dodged the questions gamers were asking him right after the game came out and it felt like Hello Games didn't care. And now, it's Sony answering for them? get it together and take responsibilities for your mistakes Sean! Again, if the game was 30 or 40$, that would've been a great title for that price, but 60$...... in Canada, it costed me $80. I enjoyed the game, just not enough to justify the $80.
"... after all, they're the ones who do the QA testing..." Sony would not have been the ones doing the QA.
The perception that NMS is a failure is just that, a perception. It's a perception that's been forged through a massive campaign to see the game fail. I see tons of ppl who actually play the game loving it and still continuing to play. It seems like the mass majority of haters are ppl who have never even played it. I'm 20 hrs in and LOVING IT. Games like Recore are rated FAR worse on Metacritic yet i see hardly any negative articles on N4G. It seems like there certainly is an agenda with NMS. It's sad and embarrassing as a fellow gamer to see the mob like mentality of ppl. The same thing happened to The Order, which also has a better Metacritic than Recore.
Oh gtfo with that BS. MAJORITY of the people complaining are PEOPLE WHO BOUGHT THE GAME!!! How are people getting refunds if they never bought the game? You're just in denial. The game is not what it was shown to be. And obviously you haven't been on N4G in the last week if you say Recore hasn't received bad press on N4G. Just stop making up bs.
I love how with all your temper tantrums your throwing at the same time pointing your finger at Recore and yelling "look at them, look at them!". There have been many articles about the failing of Recore and I know you know this but then you actually admitting this wouldn't fit your "everyone hates sony" manifesto agenda. Recore also sits high above The Tomorrow Children...does it make Recore a better game? The point is, these games failed to live up to their potential and its obvious when even gawd damn SHU speaks on it! Or has Shu also not played the game? Your extreme defending of this game and blaming everyone else who doesn't like it or anything else is becoming a parody now. It's almost as if this is another alt account only made to laugh at how ridiculous a fan base can be. The fact that those accounts are banned is what makes the joke all to serious. @Vega275 Hilarious, in his attempt to try and pass off blame he actually shed light on how this game got a free pass from a lot of reviewers and critics.
IamTylerdurden1 You keep going on about a 71 metacritic score. But all that does is throw into question the reviews of the game. If most games had this many bugs and as repetitive as NMS. Would and have review lower. So how do this game get a pass.
One difference between NMS and Recore, is that Recore was barely talked about by the dev, MS, and almost nothing was really shown before release. There were no real expectations going in, except those built up by the rampant fan boy that it would be some killer app for the X1. Not that I think people are being reasonable with their hate of NMS, and it's gone well into the realm of rediculousness or double standards, but not many people really cared about recore, whereas NMS was hyped up to be some really fresh new and amazing experience, partially on the back of the developers own PR and marketing for the game. He didn't deliver everything he apparently promised, most of which was what people thought he was saying he'd deliver, and the game was partially broken on launch, and that gave the people who wanted to downplay anything about anything Sony exclusive what they needed to really go all out on the criticism. Recore doesn't have any of that surrounding it, because where are we going to say that MS, or the devs, did anything to actually promise anything. Realistically, you'd be hard pressed to even know much about the game before release, since the game play trailer was a compilation and extremely brief, and outside a couple CGI trailers, what was there to know or hype up? Personally, I was disappointed in Recore, which makes it 2 for 3 games I got my X1 for that didn't deliver, QB being the first. That leaves Cuphead. NMS was OK, nothing special, but I didn't build my hopes up to epic proportions, so overall, I'm content with what it delivered....which is the same boat I have with Recore, but recore offers nothing that is exciting or worth being excited for. Decent enough game I guess. There are actually good criticisms that are coming up in the wake of NMS sky release, and IMO, they should be listened to, and analyzed so similar things don't happen again. However, it's hard to discuss valid criticism with the rampant hate that surrounds the game which includes copious amounts of criticism which places unrealistic expectations on the game, and the final product.....some of which are not the fault of the developer, or Sony itself.
@rain- I want blood!
Couldn't agree more. Great game that just needs a few extras bits developed for it over the next few months to help with longevity. Seems like the hate campaign was perpetrated mainly by pc gamers, xbox gamers and just plain ar$holes...
Completely agree the fact that they had some publishing duties means that to a degree they are very much aware of the issues that are going on with no man's sky. Consider most of publishing is merely marketing and distribution.
Not sure he is throwing blame in the interview. It seems more like he is acknowledging the PR shortcomings.
Sure but...who knows the game better than Hello Games themselves? They knew they were shipping a shit product.
There's no excusing it. Everyone is responsible for their own words and actions. Murray knew what he did.
Did he though? His first big indie title with a team of 12 and had no actual PR person. You can tell from interviews he was never really ready for anything. It's seems like most of the time he had no idea what he was doing and just answered questions the best he could. It's questionable if he knew what he was doing/did. He's a game dev not a PR person.
I always got the idea that he was never really comfortable even doing interviews, he always seemed nervous and so much like the introverted type. That alone should've meant they had to let someone else do the PR...
I'm also not a doctor, so there's no way I would perform heart surgery if asked to. He may be only a developer but he knew what was in the game and what wasn't and it still doesn't excuse what he showed off in demos at E3 and other shows and what was actually in the game we as consumers received. And if sony was helping with marketing, why didn't they also help with PR?
Correct, Sony was doing the PR for the game.
Murray doesn't deserve the hate. Use that hate for actual crooks like Activision, EA, and Ubisoft. Murray was enthusiastic and overambitious, but not outright evil like ppl like to believe. Ppl bury him, yet Activision can charge $50 for a Prototype "remaster" that's actually a port. How many real bait n switches will Ubisoft pull before ppl demand a refund on their games? How many greedy practices will you allow EA to partake in before you do something about it? But by all means, destroy the Sean Murrays of the world and allow the huge greedy companies to lie and line their pockets.
Activision, EA and Ubisoft aren't "crooks". They also aren't "evil". They are companies running a for profit business model on something so stupidly trivial as videogames. They aren't making cancer medication or insulin. They make entertainment. Entertainment that ultimately has zero bearing on your day to day survival. Stop being so melodramatic ffs. If you don't like what they do don't buy their games although something tells me you buy games from all three of those companies.
Ohh my god, I figured it out. You're Sean Murray.
Murray deserves every ounce of hate for the bullshit he spun. I thank God every day I torrented nms because if I had bought it I would have been mighty pissed. That game was so disappointing it isn't funny. I will never forget the feeling of watching that e3 gameplay video then actually playing the game for myself. Tyler you defend anything ps related so this isn't surprising but open your fucking eyes.
Or crooks like PlayStation? Sony can charge $50 and have 100 pieces of day one DLC for a Last Of Us "remaster" that is actually a port. Sony and Hello Games knew they were lying about the game, but run away with all the money. So, why not use that hate for PlayStation?
I can not defend Sean Murray at all. Something about the smugness of his face as he lied through his teeth doesn't allow me to forgive it.
So you're saying he lied with malicious intent to deceive? I'm sure Murray knows what he said, but you seem to imply that he never intended to deliver the things people say he didn't deliver. No one's giving him the benefit of the doubt that maybe he couldn't get them implemented. I wouldn't really be this defensive of Murray if people's only criticism was that he should have been more transparent, but I feel that people have set it up so that anything he says will not be accepted, and I think Murray himself knows this as well. If he just came out and said he couldn't get some thing implemented, or if he had a plan to get them implemented at some point, we all know it wouldn't cause the hate to subside, and would just refuel this utter contempt that people have for him and the game. That being said, the lack of transparency, and the broken promises should not be excused. but at the same time, people also shouldn't be making things up to try and find more ways in which he apparently lied, only exacerbating the situation. People are acting like Murray committed some cardinal sin, and while what he is guilty of is frowned upon in general, the people mostly criticizing also spend a lot of time defending other games which fail to deliver. Trust me when I say that I could easily take any game any person on here is praising and show them how that game failed to deliver in some way, and then watch them try their hardest to say how it's not the same because of whatever inane reason they can think of. It would be so common, and so apparent, and not be able to actually be refuted in any reasonable way, that it's almost comical how hypocritical and unreasonable people are being over this whole situation. Not that I think people should be excusing anything, just applying their criticisms evenly across the board, preferably with facts, and not a bunch of made up BS, so the real lies and misrepresentations can be analyzed properly for the betterment of the dev, the industry, and ultimately, the consumer.
I'm wholly uninterested in entertaining bleeding heart routines. Sean Murray and anyone that defends him can cry me a river. He is an adult. He is capable of controlling his own speech. He is the lead of the No Man's Sky team, he knows what was going to be in the game and what was not. Just like Peter Molyneux, Sean Murray lied and has to deal with the consequences of those lies. Further, he remained silent about the removal of features when he knew they were not going to make it in the end product, he still sold the game for a retail price point despite vast swathes of content being stripped from the game, he delayed the game for what is now blatantly obviously no reason, AND he had a review embargo placed on the game because he KNEW he was releasing an unfinished game with a huge amount of content missing from the game. Everyone who says "we know that even if he was transparent, it wouldn't stop the hate" seems for forget that NO DEV has ever tried the transparency route. So fragile is their product that they must be as secretive as possible to maintain an image that will eventually be shattered anyway, and to a far greater degree. Sean Murray is undeserving of any defense. Whether malicious or not, he lied and has refused to own up to his lies. Needing a Sony exec to defend him is pathetic.
I don't defend the lack of transparency, and have often stated he should have reigned in the PR and how I believe he could have approached it better. But seriously? you think that a few interviews where he stated some features that didn't make it somehow warrants the amount of hate that the game is getting? Sure, now we have a much longer list of apparent "lies", but most of those have either been proven false, required combing through copious interviews or analyzing the game intently to be able to make such a list, but the biggest thing which set it off is one simple feature, which Murray himself has been adament on since the beginning was not going to be a major focus of the game. But, when all these other companies get free passes....which I understand you are vocal on as well....and Murray gets thrown to the wolves or crucified for going on a month now as if he is the devil incarnate, can you reasonably say that the criticism matches the actions of Murray who as far as I can tell simply was unable to implement a feature which through extrapolation of other features appears to have been intended but never implemented? Yes, he knew he was releasing an unfinished game. So does every publisher for 99% of the games we look forward to, or don't even know about. It's a shitty industry practice, and shouldn't be encouraged nor should we give it defense. All I'm saying is that it be applied equally, and not have one indie developer who did deliver something different be crucified to make some sort of example out of. Murray's failings aren't that he lied, it's that he didn't clarify well enough before hand what he was eventually able to deliver, and possibly having a bigger scope for the game that he and his team could manage. This isn't the first time it's happened in games, it won't be the last, but it would be nice if people focus on what is actually worth criticizing to improve things and make it so that critique doesn't come across as some unreasonable hate campaign, but rather, a constructive learning experience. Yes, no dev has tried the transparency route, yet no dev has received a months worth of hate, and thousands of articles about how they failed to deliver. All those other games get is the obligatory, "games suck because they release broken, what's wrong with the industry today" BS articles for a week or so after release when everyone moves on. So, that begs the question, what makes NMS so special that it gets more hate than the numerous other examples out there which are guilty of the same crime? I'll also ask the question I asked of art below. What could Murray possibly say at this point that would appease anyone, or allow him to own up to anything? Owning up would just bring more hate, and the people criticizing have made it very apparent anything he said will be met with criticism and hate....like after that first interview after the games release before all this was even a discussion being had. So, I'm not defending him per say, I'm calling all the people over-reacting to a common trend silly and ridiculous, and by extension, until they can get their own knee jerk reactionary behavior to respectable levels, I will continue to say that he isn't as evil or malicious or incompetent as many people seem to be implying. You mention molyneux. When has he ever received months worth of hate and hundreds of articles for failing to deliver in Fable? He gets some, then people move on, with a bunch of snide remarks about how he over-promises while people say how much they love his games. That's nowhere close to what we're seeing here.
No, Shu shouldn't make excuses for Hello Games. Sean went on multiple websites, talk shows and other media outlets and continuously promoted the game with features that weren't in there. Sean got caught up in there own hype and I'm sure it was overwhelming even for him how much attention NMS was getting.
You realize Sony was doing the PR for the game? When Yoshida says he should have had PR helping him... that was Sony's job?
It's Sean Murray fault. But I have to let his guilt go. One day, he will accept his guilt.
We see this kind of crap all the time where someone with no experience in a certain craft (Sean Murray in PR) is trying but is caught up in the fact his game is getting so much attention. A lot like Trump where he has no political experience and get all the media is on him because of the ridiculous shit he says . And he might become president because. Sean didn't know what he was saying and was probably in the hype and just wanted to sell his game to as many people as possible. That's why it's not a great idea to put such spotlight on an Indie dev. That indie dev needs to earn it before it's given to them. Look at Rocket League. They weren't expecting that much praise but they made a fantastic game and all the PR and praise came after. That's what NMS should have been like.
And probably was convinced they could add in all the stuff they had dreamed up... Do hope Sean will speak up soon as well tho.
except Trump has been pretty skillful at playing the media most of the time. He used it to grab all the media attention and starve all the other campaigns. Sean doesn't have that skill. And Rocket League isn't exactly the best comparison, that team did create a similar game in the past - "Supersonic Acrobatic Rocket-powered battle cars". And it wasn't all that well received. Rocket League was their second chance. Hello Games never made a game similar to this before, and it's far more ambitious than Rocket League.
He didn't know what he was saying? He is not a rookie in this industry. He worked at EA before starting his own studio and he knew very well what he was doing and saying.
I honestly get the impression he had ideas that he believed to be feasible, or ideas he was actively developing when he went on talk shows and the like. It's rare that an actual developer is also the PR "face" of the company. So I think he ended up talking about things he may have been prototyping or whatever, was ultimately too open about features without regard for the fact things were not yet finalized. He seems like a very good guy - I could be wrong, but that's the sense I get of him. I don't think he was bold-faced lying and I think an entity detached from the actual development of the game would have really helped keep things in check.
I don't think he has the strongest skills in PR. While I applaud his enthusiasm, one thing you don't do is promise features unless you are reasonably sure you can deliver on them. If some feature doesn't make it, you have to let people know that it was not included, and the reasons why(which sometimes is done with a lie). His ability to make games is apparent. There is technical skill apparent within the game itself. It isn't something that will appeal to everyone, but it seems to be the kind of game he wanted to make, and in many ways, delivers on what was promised. More promises were met, than were not met....just people don't really want to mention that. I don't think he went out to actively try and deceive anyone, and I do think those were likely features that he wanted to implement but eventually couldn't for some reason. His only failing, IMO, was that he didn't clarify those features exclusions before release through appropriate channels and within appropriate time frames.
Rocket league is a horrific terrible comparison. They have constant free updates and releases and have never lied about a single thing. It is quickly becoming a huge and popular esport. 10 years from now it will still be popular and no one will remember that trash nms. Terrible comparison and doesn't even make sense.
At least this game comes close to a concept i always wanted.Well technically it exceeded my idea of what it should've been but i guess they could've handled it better.By making the price to reflect the state of a game is in. $15 should've been the pricetag. (bought PS4 LE €69 and PC €59.99 so do not tell me i havent supported this game )This is why i blame Sony for the most part because they published it on their platform and you can't blame anyone besides Hello Games for the PC version.
Wow you spent 130 on a game that should have cost 20 you must be so proud. Sean murray is laughing his ass off at people like you.
lol i'm laughing at you.The circle is complete.
that comic in the article is pretty hilarious
I think that Sean Murray has to come out with a statement, and I bet he will once the first major content patch is released and probably not before. While I enjoyed the game, it could definitely use some additional content added to the game to flesh it out.
I agree,but these companies need to understand that the gross of a population judges on first impressions.Debating whether that's a wise thing to do is kind of pointless.They will out of free will let alone when they have to pay for it. lol *Stop looking at me lol*
Sean Murray is at fault for lying about game features, but Sony is at fault for pricing it with an undeserving $60 tag. The fact that Shuhei only talks about Sean's role in this disastrous game shows how honor-less Sony is as a whole.
No. Stop. AT LEAST SONY is speaking up! Someone has to! Sony believed in HG and the NMS property. Honorless??? How does this paint Sony in a bad light
Sean is the dev. Sean was the spokesperson. The supermajority of the blame goes to Sean. What Sony's fault is not holding Sean to his word, and not stepping in when they realized what was actually happening. Parading the game and charging full price was also Sony's error.