J Station X: Neil Druckmann, the director of The Last of Us and Uncharted 4: A Thief's End says that diversity is as important as graphics and gameplay.
For me, I don't mind Diversity of gaming, but I do know a lot of people hate it. And I agree that. It is something that make people scare of it. There are some people willing to support diversity and other people don't want it. Story, characters and gameplay are very important to me. I'm still neutral about this. Year and year, video game have slowly evolved in good way and bad way. That's just my opinion really. One more thing, it is something that I have to think about it.
I'm a bit surprised, out of all people on here I thought you would have been in full support of that. Nothing is wrong with reality. The reality is.....the entire world is not made up of buff white dudes and any game that depicts someone other then that and shows real traits that are rarely seen is cool to explore. Its why I liked Nathan Drake's character so much. He wasn't some buff action hero, he wasn't some ex military, he wasn't some master gun shooter or anything like that. ZERO reason to not support diversity. Screw those that don't want it, so fight for more of the same standard? I was for one happy that in MGS4 Snake was OLD! They showed him not only age, but all the issues that came along with it, his memory, sight, physical abilities etc People can't cry about wanting something different in gaming, then cry when something is different in gaming.
Um, Nathan Drake is no body builder, but he is buff and an action hero. Plus he's got a great shot.
The amount of strength you need to climb stuff like that? He is buff, it's just his personality that makes him different from say the Gears of War cast. Diversity is only a problem when devs like Bioware shoe-horn it into their games, it can end up feeling forced.
People are not afraid of diversity, they just don't want it to be forced in.
Here's the problem. How do you know if it's being forced in? Does the character for Mafia 3 seem like it's being forced in when previous characters were white? Or is it okay because of the time period? Does that mean, a black character like him can only be in a game that's related to racial issues in a specific era? Is it alright that we have an everyday guy like Nathan Drake instead being a black guy?
This "diversity" often feels forced. That's one of the things that turns people off I think. It should always be appropriate to the setting and narrative of the game.
I mean they are forced in to make all protagonist white males almost so shouldnt you be for diversity if you "dont want artist to be forced in"? All of them I bet are 90% time not allowed to have a main character thats not white or a female except a few games. Thats not so true now though, its pretty good right now and we have a good mix of characters. Also like sunny D said you cant really tell when its "forced in"
100% agreed. I think that goes without saying. No one wants any feature, characteristic etc forced or there just to be there. I feel many marketing reps help ok characters JUST based on what statistically sells and don't care about creativity, I feel the ARTIST DO! If someone wrote that story with a certain race, demographic, gender etc, I want to hear what they have to tell. Give rhyme to the reason as they say, I think we all want that about all games and art. We will never really know if it was "forced" so I find it a bit irrelevant as it will likely remain unproven. I do want reason behind all characters though. edit- to fries great point, most don't bring up that white buff males have been for the most part forced as this default to market games. We've had way too many times where someone has come out and stated someone was changed to this to that simply based on sales. Those higher ups want to make games that are like OTHER games to get those sales, gamers want this change, publishers are too scared it. They want to look like other games, market how other games market etc. THUS if a game has MP, what have we seen? If a game has over the shoulder....what have we seen? So if a game has a white male, what have we clearly seen many times over? To a degree I get that many of those games would have always had a white male do to the nature of the story, game etc, but we honestly can't say the same for ALL games, we all know that games change things ALL the time to appeal to a crowd. Look at all the before and after from Japanese games? From removing characters, changing gender, race, names, enlarging breast, making breast smaller lol etc. We've seen it too many times to really not factor that.
Notice it's only forced in when it's not white guys like us America is racist lets just admit it. There is no good reason games shouldn't have more diverse cast just look at overwatch and take notes
@Sunny_D Like bruce755 said, you don't always know but it's pretty obvious when certain groups are always getting upset and pressure devs to change a character because they don't like something and that was my point. @Theguardianwave "America is racist lets just admit it" I don't live in the US but I'll tell you what i think about a statement like that. Okay there is racism but saying something like that without giving any proof doesn't do anything to help, is there some law that creates a disadvantages or are you just generalizing all people as being racist?
@Sunny_D - Forced, such as say, an all-female Ghostbusters movie remake for 2016. Nothing screams diversity like having no males and stereotyping the only black woman in the movie---- wait...
@Sunny When it doesn't seem to fit, it's probably forced. When it doesn't matter to the narrative, and it's prominent, it is probably forced. When it's openly admitted to being changed to be diverse, it's probably forced. If one is having trouble saying it's forced, because it fits into the game, or narrative, or with everything else in the game, then it's probably not forced. Forced is the wrong way to be diverse. Being diverse because it works and makes sense, means the dev is conscious of the product they're trying to make, and go to greater lengths to be authentic and understand good character design, scene set up, or story telling. There are times it's ambiguous. Say with the new Watch Dogs game. Black guy wouldn't be that out of the ordinary in a urban city. I feel the decision to make the main character black was forced because it's just the trend right now, but ultimately, it's not out of place, so whatever, it's fine. But lets look at Kung Lao(sp?) from MKX. His homosexuality wasn't really that important to anything. It was barely even covered in the story mode, and even left slightly ambiguous. So what's the point? Make him gay because????. That's forced, because it really doesn't matter what his sexual preferences are....and sexuality of the characters was never a topic of the series that I can recall....hence, it's forced. It didn't ruin the game or anything, but it's a prime example that forced inclusion isn't really helping anything, nor is it meaningful except to allow the devs or pubs to appear to believe in being diverse. But I'm going to throw this out there, because I see people say that people are overtly heterosexual often in reference to the ubiquitious nymphomaniac or sexy character that's in some of these games. Well, those are forced as well. It's common, but no less forced if it means nothing. In the case of kung lao though, it had nothing really to do with his character in context to the game, and even less to the overall narrative. It wasn't even a personality trait akin to those overly sexual heterosexual characters that people keep pointing to. If a game is designed around the premise of being diverse, one has to ask themselves if it's a game worth playing, because the make up of the characters, and structure/quality of the narrative is not going to take precedence over being good by including characters that actually have a meaningful role within that story. If one were to say look at Life is Strange. The game was written to tell a narrative. There was diversity, although mostly just preppy hipster white kids, but one of the characters was gay, and it had nothing to do with the story itself, beyond that persons relationship to another person, and possibly some narrative based on players choices with the players avatar itself. The narrative came first. The other obviously gay character in the game, never once had their sexuality mentioned, commented on, or in any way was part of the plot, but it fit given the setting of the game....thus done very well. @Saito below My bad. Got them confused. Cousins or brothers as I recall. I didn't get too deep into MKX, just the first simple example I could think of. Thanks for clarifying.:)
@rain its Kung Jin not Lao who is homosexual
Feminists and SJW don't care about Naughty Dog since they are the ones that attack the gamer populace. To support something that actually wants to bring you down and force you into doing what they want is pretty sadist of Neil Druckmann and Naughty Dog in general. Feminists hate gamers because they don't care if sexy girls are in the games, and they want developers to be forced into developing what feminists want which is void of anything sexual and to make females the protagonist regardless of of whether it adheres to the story or not. After being a long time supporter of the company, I honestly feel betrayed by Sony because they are catering to the whims of the feminists, hence the new crappy Ghost Busters movie and Naughty Dog going out of its way to change a gender solely because of feminist frequency. The BS they spew has gotten to the point where Neil Druckmann will literally change the original ending of a story they had planned for Uncharted 4 in order to make feminists feel better about themselves. This simply should not be. There have been plenty of main female cast of characters in games before that were put in because the developers thought it would be best and gamers loved those titles. This feminist and SJW movement has gotten so far out of hand that it is literally forcing us to live in a world they want where freedom of thought doesn't matter because it "might hurt someones feelings". Yeah the only feelings they care about is their own.
I've never felt that ND was one to have to worry about forcing anything into their games. They seem to try and make games(at least starting last gen where they went more real world) that have characters, settings, and stories that fit within their narratives. No character in UC is out of place for what it is. The one "sexy" character isn't even out of place, and even though she knows she's sexy, it's not like they objectify her, or make that in any way the biggest part of her character. Her sexiness is just a character trait, not the character itself. ND itself, made Elena to be fairly ordinary for a woman in video games long before the SJW starting complaining, and while she's "sexy" in her own way, that sexiness is something that is just kind of natural for a petite blonde who is as active as she would be. Druckman himself, despite saying he's looking at ways to diversify his games, just makes characters that work. So long as the diversity he brings works with the games, and the entire game isn't build around the premise of being diverse, I'm sure it'll be fine. There's nothing wrong with seeing what these people have to say, and using it to analyze what one could do better, or if they've been doing things wrong. Some people want to show that people are the same regardless of what affiliation may be attributed to them, and the good story tellers know that even if something is forced, there has to be a reason to explain their inclusion, even if it's not directly stated. When they do so, the diversity isn't for the sake of being diverse, it's diverse, because the artist themselves want things to be more natural. Even though these inclusions are borne from his beliefs on the subject, it's OK for them to include things that they feel fit, because a part of the artist exists in every piece of art. As far as ND goes, they don't go overboard, and they do make it natural so it still fits. When they're included to fill in check boxes, then it becomes a problem, because more often than not, it's extremely shallow and needless. If the artist can't naturally come to a way to include these things, then it's a problem. Actively looking for ways to be diverse isn't a problem so long as they remain true to the overall vision. Every game has it's design analyzed, and even a generic buff white guy is there due to decisions that it fits the best(or more often will be the most appealing to the target audience). There's nothing wrong with doing it for things categorized as diverse.
99% of everything we see in movies, tv, and games are white folks. i don't have a problem with it because it's all I've really known growing up in north america. why some people find it threatening, or feel that having a non white character is being in some way shoved down their throats, is amusing to the 1% that are told to live with it everyday. name five characters from 5 successful games that had to be white because the story called for it. Nathan Drake didn't have to be a white character, he could have been native american, no? unless you think native americans are still living in tepees. get my point? woman are getting a very small percentage of leading roles in games and movies. "This feminist and SJW movement has gotten so far out of hand that it is literally forcing us to live in a world they want where freedom of thought doesn't matter because it "might hurt someones feelings". Yeah the only feelings they care about is their own." remove "This feminist and SJW movement has gotten so far out of hand that it is literally" and add "white males are" to the beginning, and then you might understand how the rest of us feel.
What I think is a bit weird here is that there is little to no diversity in ND's games. At least not in the main characters. It's only the people you shoot that are really diversified
ND only has a few characters for any one of their games. The main character, a few supporting cast, a bad guy or two, and those bad guys henchmen. For the most part, given where the games take place, their "diversity" is pretty natural for the story because it either fits into the location, or the location of where the bad guy comes from. ND games have diversity beyond that though. Ellie was gay in TLOU...although it wasn't revealed until the DLC...but her sexuality had nothing at all to do with the plot in the game proper. Her friend in Left Behind was black, and also gay, hence diverse. The antagonist of TLOU was black, although she wasn't actually a bad guy in the classic sense nor were you gunning for her the whole game. The fireflies and regular soldier types you shot throughout the game were made up of what you'd expect in a game that takes place in America...and that's varying races, but mostly white. Beyond that, there wasn't much to be diverse about. People were just who they were. before that, their games weren't set in reality, so can't really say there.
SJWs aren't going to buy your games so you can stop acting like you care about them.
So why can't non Sjw's buy the games?
Thats because its not made for us.
That moment when believing that a further exploration of human diversity in an art form with so much untapped potential makes you a KRAZY SOSHUL JUSTIS WARYUR HARRRR
Is this a joke? This can only be a joke!
It's been confirmed. The Last of Us 2's main character will be an obese African-American female lesbian hermaphrodite.
Joel will be in a wheelchair for last of us 2 for disability representation
Not obese. ND doesn't want to offend fat people. Remember no donut drake? Also think lesbian hermaphrodite is an oxymoron. But so is African American for the vast majority of people who use it, since they do not have dual citizenship. You don't actually need to use female when referencing a lesbian, the lesbian part implies that it's a female. So, the main character for TLOU2, by your reasoning, and to make sure ND doesn't offend anyone with misplaced or redundant nomenclature is that they will be nothing at all....because all those things can't actually exist in conjunction with one another....unless the main character actually has dual citizenship....which wouldn't make much sense in TLOU, because I doubt citizenship is something that exists in the world, and travelling from Africa to America wouldn't seem practical in that world....unless they were there at the start of the outbreak.
This gave me a good chuckle.
@rainslacker I understand that some oxymorons may have been prevalent, but t'was a simple jest sir. One of which to not be taken seriously. Good day!
:) I didn't take it seriously. I was joking as well. Just trying to show how silly it can all be.:) More often than not, when i go into these over rational rants and exploitative analysis of things that are said, it's best not to take me seriously.:)
ND now drinking the kool-aid too... So sad. But graphics are not as important as gameplay either. That is nonsense.
Diversity allows for stories to be told that otherwise would have not been feasible or believable. Having a graphically immersive world allows to convey a world that otherwise would have not been feasible or believable. No one is saying its the only thing that matters, merely some concepts NEED to be able to convey an idea graphically just as much, consider Alien Isolation or Dead Space... I still need to believe I'm in such a space station to be fully immersed. If it looks like Minecraft, clearly I'm not going to have my mind in that same place. Some genres NEED it, using Minecraft as an example again, it can pass with that clearly as a open world do anything type of fantasy game, but many horrors need to be able to rely on making a believable world first before making you PLAY a horror. P.T is an amazing example, that game looks JAW DROPPINGLY amazing, added with amazing gameplay, you are locked in that world and it feels believable because it looks believable.
So why can't devs add a minority character just because and not because of some agenda? Can we get an everyday guy like Nathan Drake without having it relate to racial issues or a specific time period? Or nah?
We can. Thats the problem with these progressive types. They dont actually see how theyre regressive. They are more sexist and racist than those they accuse of being because the character must be black cause he/she is black. Someone mentioned mafia 3 earlier up, is it forced? Well if you listen to the dev walk through, im pretty sure he says 'hes a black vietnam vet" not a "vietnam vet". Why say this when we can see?
@Mopgeound...he says that he is Black because it is an important aspect of the narrative of the establishment of the Black Mafia throughout the game. It adds to the overall tensions because of the time period that the game is set in. (being harassed by the police while trying to go about your mafia business adds that extra layer of immersion to the narrative) So, it's not just a throw away mention.
Indeed. It's preferable to have better graphics but why is it that FF13 and RE6 were considered disappointments and are widely considered the worst games in their respective franchises despite having much better graphics than their predecessors? Graphics don't make or breajk games.
That's obviously true, but Uncharted 4 wouldn't have had the same impact it does now without the amazing visuals it has.
I'm going at this from an SP game perspective. From Druckman, quoted in the article: "When you make a game, you have these different pillars that you’re trying to balance. It’s graphics, it’s gameplay, it’s story and you’re trying not to let any one pillar overwhelm the other. You’re trying to just keep all of this stuff in your mind like, how does it all work together? Recently, I realized that there’s this other pillar of diversity. That’s just as important as any one of these other pillars". I see where he's coming from and respect his opinion. In fact I agree to an extent BUT I feel the execution of his statement is going the wrong way. The way I see it is that diversity is not it's own pillar. It's part of the story pillar. The diversity of the characters should come naturally from the story/lore/setting of the game.
The way I see it is diversity is a part of every pillar. You have to have diverse characters to have a great story (typically in ND games anyways). You want diversity in the gameplay (Uncharted 2 train combat). And I guess with graphics you have to have diversity to give completely different atmospheres.
I disagree. Diversity is absolutely meaningless on its own. What matters is if the characters are well written and if we can connect with them. If devs don't accomplish that I don't care if they are black blue or green because I will not care about them.
Yep, and when diversity becomes it's own pillar, you get skewed views on what is natural, or you start trying to write your story or create your characters to fit within that diversity pillar. But since that diversity pillar is part of the story pillar, it becomes harder to actually achieve balance, because you are now trying to balance between two pillars where there used to be one, thus things become skewed. In terms of presentation, this leads to lackluster implementation, because there is no way to balance out the pillars. If you have a round bowl balancing between three pillars, and you insert another pillar, it's going to move the bowl. While balance could be found, it requires more work. But if you split one of the pillars into two, then the two new pieces can't hold anything on their own, and the other two pillars aren't capable of making up the lack of balance, thus the bowl falls. In any case, even if it is it's own pillar, I don't feel it's anywhere near as important as the other three. It's more like a weight added to a wheel to help balance out some roughness. Not a main part of how the wheel spins. At best it can be considered a brick within the story pillar. Pillar won't fall if you remove it, but something may appear to be missing for those looking at that pillar from a different perspective. Aren't metaphors fun?
It's not even close to being even half as important as gameplay & graphics. Just goes to show that Naughty Dog are going downhill.
when a segment of society has 99% of all media representing them. it's amusing to hear them get upset and complain that they are being wronged. kinda being hypocritical no?
I wouldn't pay any attention to what he said if I were you cause all it is is a publicity stunt to bring in more people.
Call me worse then shit but I've kind of lost respect for Neil after he supports and loves Anita Sarkeesian and her Feminist Frequency shows. Nadine Ross seems like he was trying to please her with that character. The woman who just beats the shit out of Nate despite all the highly skilled people he's had a fight with in the past. Navarro, Lazarevic and even Talbot. A highly trained mercenary, a psychological war criminal and a highly trained secret agent...yet he can't take down Nadine....hell even with Sams help she beats the crap out of both of them. In the end she also gets away, probably because they didn't want Nate or Sam, two males to kill her. Basically this confirms that Nadine was changed to a black woman because of "diversity". God knows what he's going to do with Ellie in the Last of Us 2.
Not really. I don't care for Anita in terms of how she goes about it, but I can't disagree with the overall narrative. A lot of what she is saying is correct, but I don't like the "demanding" of it as gaming is a subjective art form. I think its AMAZING to bring awareness as I have nothing but respect for that, but not calling out artist and demanding for something, merely JUST because. The goal is just, the execution is a bit overboard. "Basically this confirms that Nadine was changed to a black woman because of "diversity". Not really. Even is she was...I'm completely fine with that. Other races, genders, cultures exist in the world bud, I'm actually dead tired of playing the same crappy people every generation. I was DELIGHTED when I played Prey 1 and the main character was Native American. Its why I've always LOVED the story and characters in the Tekken universe. They speak the language of the country they are from and it just adds this cool realism factor to the game (yes I know...in TEKKEN). I was playing Fallout 4 the other day and realized how funny it was that no one spoke any other language other then English besides maybe 1 character that I know of (won't spoil it for anyone). Could you imagine a Fallout or any open world RPG that had MANY different real world languages? . When you go outside, chances are you will see different age groups, genders, cultures etc. We don't even see that in games, but THAT is something I'd like to see if only to fully immerse me into the game. Consider in many zombie games, the only people that seem to be zombies are adult slim males and females LOL! No short, fat, kids, ages etc This isn't about adding it JUST for the sake, this is about properly conveying the real world. I even downloaded the Skyrim mod for argonian and khajiit kids, as well as old people of all races, as well as randomizing the heights of all NPCs. We don't live in a world with all slim white males along with slim white females with zero kids, zero old people and all the same height and size lol Diversity IS realism!
***Nobody wants "realism" though, they want exciting fantasy.*** I want both. An element of realism makes the game better while a fantastical setting and creatures also makes it better. *** They want great stories.*** And sometimes those come from stories with a more diverse element to them. Not always, but sometimes. *** They don't want a diversity checklist being forced onto them like they do in every other aspect of their lives. *** Agreed. And this is the problem. People are making diversity a checklist rather than just a natural element of storytelling and gameplay. Diversity isn't the issue, doing it solely as a checklist element is the issue. BioWare's gay characters add nothing to the storyline. Watch_Dogs 2 comes off as a diversity checklist for me, but Mafia 3 doesn't. I wasn't as bothered by Nadine in U4 as others as I think it's more akin to the standard issue in action entertainment: the hero is some big action guy and can take on 50 nobodies, but one other person out of nowhere, sometimes a female character, suddenly kicks his butt in (see most episodes of Arrow as an example of this). I don't have the problem with her being black or female, I just take it as the usual "we have an issue where in order to make this fight seem reasonable, we have to ignore the hero's history." Something extremely common on TV shows, and Uncharted plays like a TV show of sorts over the 4 games. I probably would have taken it better if she had used some sort of melee weapon, otherwise she comes off as a fantasy interpretation of the character. I have way more issues in U4 with the shoe-horned-in brother storyline. But, that's just me.
@Bruce- "Nobody wants "realism" though, they want exciting fantasy" I see you didn't read my entire post. You want a fantasy game that doesn't have any children of certain races, no old people, everyone the same height and 1 language? I love fantasy games too bud, but something like Fallout or Elder Scrolls, Witcher etc don't just state that there is some reason they don't have much, kids, old people, languages etc. Most just over all don't have them and I normally just add them in mods Part of the immersion is still grounded in reality of that many races exist, they have kids, people grow old etc. Pretty sure its not part of the "fantasy" of those games to have no kids, old folks, different languages etc lol My point is that diversity is realism. ONLY and ONLY if the game's story resolves around something that gives reason to not have that ie only women exist because of xyz or what have you, does that ever make sense in. ". But the negativity in response to this narrative shows that many gamers don't like this being forced into games" Yet they are fine that publishers have been forcing the same demographic for decades now? I want to play what the director of the game intended, not what the publisher thinks will sell. Look at how much gets changed in games when publishers think they won't get attention like other titles, think about how much has been the same simply because of that same concept. If you are fine with publishers continuing to choose games characters JUST based on statistical sales, you're also fine with them throwing in MP or SP even for the sake of sales. I want it because it has reason, not because some publisher thinks doing this will make it sell. "the real motive is to" yes...the "the real motive is to" sell games......its why they force features in games to get bullet point sales, its why they jump on trends to make money, its why they censor games in certain regions or change names or even genders to gain some sort of western appeal. How do you know what you've been currently playing all along as been "the real motive is to" make money? "portrayal of certain "majority" and "entitled" groups".....sooooo how would that not be any different then? They very much know games statistically sell with certain demographics as the main characters, the changes done from concept to finish or even when the game is going to another region shows this. All I'm saying, is I want games to reflect the real world, not because I don't want fantasy, because even in the fantasy I play...ITS NOT PART OF THE GAME, its merely as HUGE oversight and mistake. Fallout is NOT about zero old folks and no children.....yet has very little of them. The real world is not this way, so why should a game that is suppose to be depicting this planet, not have the demographics of this planet? Buddy, its why I even added the mods in Skyrim lol. My game on PC has kids of all races, different heights, ages etc Yes, I know its a game, but I want it to make universal sense bud.
Well Nate has zero training, Nadine Ross would've spent her entire life being trained in combat as a mercenary considering her father started the outfit. From what I recall, Drake rarely went hand to hand w/ villains and got his butt handed to him when he did...Lazarevic actually beat the snot out of Drake when he tried, Navarro also beat him if I recall...Drake fought Talbot hand to hand and lost the first time, nearly lost the second and the only reason he was even holding his own was because Talbot was flustered after losing Marlowe, but even then Talbot nearly beat & murdered Drake there before getting helped by Sully. Also, how does any of what you said confirm a race swap for the character? You are really reaching there. It's ironic to me that people are possessive of agendas that are based around trying to call out someone else for having an agenda. Neil, like the rest of the true creative types in gaming or any other medium are just realizing that these games should reflect the world outside a gamer's window. When I walk around I don't solely see middle aged fit white dudes. If a storyteller wants to make a story true to reality, they will naturally include many different races & genders...and sometimes one of those characters may be more physically fit than our aging out of shape protagonist who had been out of the game for a while.
Oh come on. Nate managed to take down highly skilled soldiers, most were gun play but they had a hand to hand combat feature for a reason. Are you saying none of those soldiers he went against had similar to training to Nadine...I mean come on. She was potrayed as an amazing highly skilled expert. Not even Sam helping him could land a few hits on her in a row without her beating the shit out of them in a full on streak. It just didn't fit in with what we've seen in the past games. Fair enough if he got beaten but at least show he can fight, it looked like he had never done it before when fighting her. Talbot, the final boss of U3 was a huge brawl where you actually were winning. "Also, how does any of what you said confirm a race swap for the character?" Neil is a massive Anita fan and loves her FF videos Neil goes on about diversity and saying how they make sure "that people in the game are women and people of colour" If Nadine was white like the actress then who else MAIN CHARACTER wise is black? Oh yeah no one else. So they thought "shit we don't have a black actresses, we NEED DIVERSITY" and decide to make Nadine, the only suitable main character in the game black. It's not hard to add up. They said it was a design choice but after this interview and what he's said it's obvious it was done to bring "balance" to the game.
@foxtrot "Oh come on. Nate managed to take down highly skilled soldiers, most were gun play but they had a hand to hand combat feature for a reason. Are you saying none of those soldiers he went against had similar to training to Nadine...I mean come on." That's a fair point, but you are also talking about NPC cannon fodder type of characters, so its really hard to assign individual weight to every person he'd ever scrapped with. Out of the main enemies from the series that were fleshed out a bit though, Nate getting beat in a hand to hand fight tracks w/ the entire history of the franchise. Nadine would've been a special case too because you are talking about a girl who was not only entrenched in a military type background for her entire life, surrounded by soldiers of all classes, she would've also been fairly rich, which would've allowed for the best of training. Even a bit beyond that, Nate even mentions or alludes to it at some point that he is fighting a girl, and it is an evolutionary trait that decent men have a hard time not pulling their punches when being attacked by a woman. Either way, I honestly think out of the entire history of villains in the series, Nadine's background points to her being the most capable hand to hand adversary Drake's ever had for sure. As far as Talbot, Drake lost the first fight & he had the upper hand a couple times on the final battle, but ultimately it was Talbot straddling Drake nearly pushing a knife through his heart in the end, and it was Sully who had to step in and stop him from being flat out killed. I mean don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of the SJW bent to some stories these days that create forced inclusion instead of letting it come naturally. Maybe ND straddles that line, but the intention seems good to me. They aren't forcing diversity in order to make a buck, they are doing it out of personal conviction, which is a great deal more commendable. I'm not up enough on Anita, what little I read about her & from what little I've seen, she is pretty awful. She has no real skin in gaming and that seems fairly evident. She is just profiting from being the big fish in a small pond by fighting this battle in a genre that isn't typically regarded on the whole for its narrative depth. Another good example of someone monetizing outrage & controversy while ultimately doing a disservice to the same causes they claim to be fighting for. I mean you most likely could have a point about Nadine being a diversity addition, but I think it more likely that the character didn't exist at all and that she was added from day one as a person of color. If you look at her role in the story, she could feasibly be cut from the story entirely & it wouldn't have a huge impact. I agree that she could've been included to create diversity, but I don't think they've race swapped her at any point.
While true, Nate has also shown he has enough hand to hand combat skills killing other people to mean he wouldn't be quite so helpless when the boss fight...or cut scene comes. Not that he went up against trained martial artists most of the time, but half the characters you mentioned were not trained martial artists, simply proficient in hand to hand combat. Nate is often shown as being somewhat clunky when it comes to fisticuffs, but not during action game play sequences when it looks cooler to get that awesome death shot in. I don't take issue with nadine, because she was obviously trained in some form of martial arts, and the Drake brothers seem more like street fighters. I'd be more critical of most of the others you mentioned, because they were in the same league as Drake for the most part. Maybe more proficient, but not so much that Drake would be that outmatched. I personally have a laugh at the people who say Nate shouldn't have had such a problem with Nadine. You put a highly trained martial artist up against a rather slow and clunky fighter, and the trained martial artist is going to win every time. But I take it for what it is. An action piece that needs some sort of heightened drama. I don't complain about it in a James Bond movie, or any action movie really, because it's just a trope of the action genre. @Fox And we've seen those highly trained solders also be able to take down Nate depending on how good someone is at the melee mechanics in the game. More often than not, hand to hand combat had Nate being beaten too unless you surprised the person and they never fought back.
@Foxtrot Add all that plus the fact that they removed a "sexist" player from the focus group, when all he did was repeat what was said before about the Nadine fight scenes. In fact it was several focus testers who disagreed with the scene, but only one left. http://www.gamespot.com/art...
@foxtrot if you think those basic cqc skills of foot soldiers/mercenaries compare to the practitioners of the real fighting arts then you are mistaken those soldiers had basic combat skills so even an unskilled brawler like Drake can have a good chance beating there asses but to compare to Nadine Lazarevic etc is ridiculous Drake cannot hang with combat experts on a bigger lvl than himself and that includes Sam but its really simple and no hard too understand the combat ability in UC cause actually it reflects much like reality cause ALMOST all soldiers mercs etc have basic combat abilities or none at all thats why most people specialize in gunplay Nadine like I who went through rigorous training and discipline schooling normal brawlers you find in a bar on a saturday night is no threat so the combat ability argument is mute really it is
Wasn't Ellie already a lesbian in the first TLOU DLC?
"God knows what he's going to do with Ellie in the Last of Us 2" Nothing that will put the game's financial results in danger.
today uncharted had an update, since then i can't play online? has anyone the same problem?
I saw that it updated, but haven't tried to play the MP.
It's obviously not. Amy Hennig's departure always irked me, because she was a lot of the heart and soul of the company. Uncharted 4 was very good, but I'm kind of worried.
Hennig was the heart of the UC franchise, but not the entire company. Look at TLOU, if you enjoyed that game as much as everyone else, that is ND moving forward. I'm sure they will introduce more or less humor & levity based off of the theme of whatever game they are creating, but the ND of today is interested in creating complex weighty stories that examine real world topics & true human emotions. Seems to me that ND will be just fine w/o Amy. She's going to be doing better than ever as well, having a huge platform w/ a new EA Star Wars game. I was bummed to hear Amy leave, but ultimately I think it'll work out best for everyone involved in the end. I'm personally looking forward to multiple amazing experiences moving forward from all parties.
I felt there was balance between the two People always go on about Uncharted 3 not being as good because Amy wrote it when really it's mostly because it had a shorter time frame and it was Sony's way of getting another Uncharted out there while the iron was still hot after Uncharted 2. She did well considering how shorter the dev time was. Would I want a different Uncharted 3 if I could go back in time sure but again she still did alright, the game was great regardless I just felt they made sure each others ideas didn't go one way. Like Uncharted 4 I felt some things they did, character wise and plot development wise wouldn't have been done if Amy had stayed. Hell Sam would have been a villain and god knows what Nadine Ross would have been like if they did that....would her role be the same, what about her design/looks. With one gone I think Neil didn't have anyone to tell him no.
Yeah, what would Mario be without Toad, Donkey Kong and Birdo?
Wrong, but not at all surprising considering the source. Diversity is the least important aspect of a game, actually. Especially when it's forced in so douchebags can go out and virtue signal in interviews.
Diversity as a business move more like it. They know the demographic of gamers are becoming more diverse, so now they want to coin it in. Caching.
I think a lot of people didn't take what he means by diversity the right way.
Diversity not as important as graphics and gameplay. I don't buy games based off whether my race is represented in the game. I buy it based on whether it looks good and is fun to play. I never thought, "ho shit, this game looks good, but the main character is a girl so fuck it".
Reminds me of the racist idiots who were causing a stir about watchdog's 2 main character being black.