A scan of a WalMart advertisement showing an Xbox 360 Arcade system for $199 makes it official - the 360 will be the first of the new gen system to break the $200 price barrier!
I don't have any doubt that Microsoft will make price a problem for PS3 again. And Sony will just have to answer or loose. PS3 fans just don't want to face reality. I don't know how they think they can win charging more for the same product.
Since when was the 360 even competitive?? I recall Sony still beating MS in the July NPD, even with their price cut and $299.99 sku. MS are just shaking in their boots at this time.
Sony says no Price drop, well see about that when they start getting their asses handed to them. But if PS3 continues to stay on par with 360 even with these price differences, then they will impress the hell out of me.
The first thing consumers look at is the end price tag, everything else that matters like value, the games, and future-proof'ness comes straight afterwards. Unlike the Wii, the 360 has the games and support to back up its system. And the Wii fad is starting to wear off. I'm not saying Sony has the same, if not more superior advantage when it comes to value, games, and support. But history has already proven that the cheapest, most effective console will win. Last gen, it was PS2, this gen, it might be 360. We'll see soon enough because I know I would pay $400 all over again just for Killzone 2 alone, but I already have my launch 60GB so obviously price wasn't an issue to me, but it might be for others.
yeah your right lighting....hows YOUR blu ray player going?
Do you ever shut up? We get it, your an ex-ps3 fanboy. Stop rubbing it in beofre your on your last bubble.
Lowering the price can have a negative affect to though. It'll be saying: The 360 is CHEAPER then the PS3, even CHEAPER then the Wii, if you get my drift.
but, what they realize is when they've had the system for a while, its cost more than the PS3. This is the Arcade SKU we're talkin about, if you want to experience Xbox Live (which defines the 360) you need a hard drive, headset, Gold Membership, which comes to be $100-200 dollars more. M$ got people by the look first tactics, but once you look past the nice price and figure in the amount of cash you're dropping in the system for the full experience, you feel kind of played.
the PS2 would still be outselling the Wii. The Xbox will not loose imo the NA market but their price cut is already in effect in the EU and it did nothing for them.
Microsoft's designing an appropriate white flag by the looks of it. This is the FINAL thing they can do to boost sales. It says everything. Seriously though, it's great, becuase it's so damn cheap. These had better sell like hotcakes, and hopefully it will force the PS3 to price drop.
well it better not be long or else i just wont read it like the last one.
calling me ignorant is mighty high of you when you go off subject to boast about your console when your comment isnt even on topic please go to open zone becuase im tired of the console war going on in peoples minds just play your games and enjoy the pointless time youve typed which will be deleted as off topic. Back to TOPIC Smart move xbox the price will help sales imo but nothing drastic.
That is 100% false. Price is ONE factor but its not the first factor. You know what is? demand. people will always want whatever console they choose no matter the price. Most people who are going to spend an extra couple of hundred dollars on a console will spend extra to get what they want. We saw this last year when the ps3 outsold the 360 by quite a bit worldwide, this despite not even being out in europe for a quarter of the year.
"I don't know how they think they can win charging more for the same product." Same product? You must be unaware of the difrences between xbox360 and PS3. N4G have heard them many a time, I wont even waste my breath =]
I agree with the executive on demand being the reason people by anything. However, with a lower price point and very nice lineup on the way the demand will be there this holiday. MS has had this planned out for quite some time and if they can start really promoting they can get back into the limelight.
@ xhi well i have a ps3 and can tell you that nobody ever uses mics. the most ive EVER seen in one game was in a MGO match there were 3-4 people on our team who were friends and were talking. i swear i thought i was on XBL or something, i actually sync'd my mic just cause there was people talking in the match. but once they left it was back to listening to nothing once again. just like in resistance, motortstorm,warhawk,UT3,MGS4. ive had or rented these games and i know first hand that nobody uses mics in these games. the most is 1-3 people. the online on ps3 isnt really anything special, theres no invites, you cant see what your friends are doing or what level of the game there on like on the 360. no cross game voice chat, and even the trophy system is all slow,and to top it off it only supports 1 game(retail game). i was a bit arrogant in my first post but i pretty much summed it up about the ps3 being for less hardcore gamers that dont mind having to wait on constant delays and what not.
...you do realize you have to be online to have mics work right? I assumed you didn't know this, because if you played on PSN you'd see plenty of people with mics. You're either full of it or are using a 56k modem.
Now xbl will be supporting 8 player party and private yes private chat and they can go into even movies together and game to game to game and the price cut jeez, my little cousin will be happy with playing xbl with me this Christmas becuase xboxes are a steal at that price and my ather brothers can buy him hardrive and etc. but xi im sure psn is better then that now im sorry for offending psn users its just xhi is very biased and not open minded to other consoles.
Agreed, people overestimate the power of a price drop. By nature the 360 will be more expensive down the road because of overpriced accessories and Xbox Live, but as long as the entry-fee is cheap; people are more likely to buy. And they'll keep buying to get what they want; thus Microsoft's "Choice". I completely agree that price drops aren't the first factor towards a decision, but you cannot deny that the Wii's huge success in sales and maintaining its position as #1 on the market. People saw a cheap, quriky toy, they bought it. Demand rises, viral marketing takes place, a fad begins, Nintendo profits. It's more conceptual to think that most gamers here can acknowledge that overall the PS3 is a better deal for the buck because accessories are universal (almost) and online is free. However Microsoft has Xbox Live's premium service and quality accessories (Les Paul Guitar). It's a constant tug-o-war match between the two companies, but I ultimately believe that the PS3 will emerge because of its games and value. But that doesn't mean Microsoft won't benefit from a sales surge over the price drop with its current strength. I bought my PS2 when the price dropped to $200, I can believe there are others like me that will bite on that price alone because they already decided to buy a 360. Critics will always unfairly compare the $200 inferior Arcade 360 to the $400 superior 40GB PS3 as grounds for argument. I'm just being realistic to the situation at hand because the price drop is aimed at the casual market. I wouldn't be surprised if I saw a 360 Arcade Scene-It Bundle.
I to have been in matches with absoulute no sound whatsoever but ive also been in warhawk with a friend and people started to talk to us. So i think it depends what match your in or someone just has to talk but like the guy above me said i do wish psn would get private chatting becuase socom would be alot more tactical with 8 people that you know have mics are chatting. Oh and the xbox for xmas sounds like a pretty good idea with the price now its figuring out whos the lucky nephew!
did you not read my post? i said i played all those games i listed online and people never have mics. i bought a mic when i bought my ps3 last november with motorstorm. i dont know why ps3 only owners always try and say 'theres lots of people that use mics on ps3!' when i know first hand theres a max of maybe 2 people per game of 16 players. if youve played on live 2 people per game with mics is nothing, on live if your in a game with 16 people at LEASED 12 of them have their mics connected. sometimes its good sometimes its bad, it depends what game your playing, usually the older games are the ones with the best community where you go into a match and see someone youve played with and talked to before. and if you have some annoying 13 year old singing into the mic or something you can mute em from the guide, on any game. on the ps3 i just feel like im playing against bots, smart bots, nobody ever talks i might as well just be playing singleplayer. people comunicating on ps3 is so bad that on resistance they even have text chat while in the lobby. another problem is the inconsistensy of the mic cuality and volume.
You can save clutter on here by nearly 40%. Just the statistics folks. ;)
Hey look guys, this is the bottom line .... If the 360 can't sell with this price drop, end of story 360 is dead. There simply is no demand period. If they make a killing then we know that the 360 is here to stay this gen and that Sony is definitely going to be last and possibly the Wii second. Now which is the more likely of the two scenarios? We'll have to wait until the end of the holiday season to tell us. Can we all agree on this?
I would rather spend 400$ for a great functioning system with a great future ahead of itself, and is actually stable, than spend 200$ on a hay wire system who's exclusives I can hardly care for. I've grown up with the MGS and Tekken series, and that's what I'm gonna stay with. I don't buy consoles because they cost more or less, I buy what's best.
Undercutting the competition and brushing off any resulting financial loss as if they were simply getting rid of loose pennies - that's the one thing that Microsoft always did better than anyone else :)
the sales battle is ON and heating up for the coming months! and I think PS3 still sold more in August NPD! I don't know how much longer Sony can take the price hit from M$, but NPD numbers will play a major roll. if 360 sold more like leap and bound PS3 numbers for consecutives month after this price drop, we'll likely see Sony announce their price drop later this year! Christmas is coming and mass appeal is crusial!
What else could Microsoft do? Their strategy in the Online department, was very smart for Microsoft financially,(not as much for the consumer), but weak spots in financial strategy always show with time... I understand bringing a price drop to keep the pricing on the SKUs competitive, but in all honesty, there comes a pricepoint, where all the discount does is deface any value a console has. Then it becomes a budget aimed console, no longer cutting edge or bleeding tech. I suppose it was only a matter of time though...
solidsnakus - Hearing nothing is better than those wailing Kids on xbox live!
I lol at your avatar pic. On topic, I agree with your point on budget vs value. The way I look at it is that the Xbox and PS2 dropped to $200 and sold the most at that price point. I don't think $200 bones is budget yet but a good value. A good example of budget priced console is the Gamecube at $100 dollars...not too many people saw the console as a value at that point. I might buy one (a 360) to replace my current and get HDMI. Also, for everyone doubting $200 as the magical price point...I have 30 cousins and all the younger ones will be getting a 360 for Christmas at that price (my big Polish family).
I am a consumer and I look for a few things when buying a console. One of them is price and 200 bucks is a nice price point but it is only one factor. Secondly I look for functionality. What can the console offer me is a big factor. Paying 200 bucks for something that plays games is nice but paying 400 for something that plays BD movies, upscales DVD's, acts as an entertainment hub in my entertainment center, enables me to brows the web, etc, etc, is a great deal too. Thirdly, I look for quality. You cannot polish a turd. Paying even as little as 200 bucks for a lower quality piece of equipment is too much IMHO. I would rather pay 400 bucks for something hat I know will work than paying 200 on something that WILL break sooner than later.
A scan of a WalMart advertisement showing an Xbox 360 Arcade system for $199 makes it official - the 360 will be the first of the new gen system to break the $200 price barrier! & Besides M$ was the 1st of the next Gen to comeout anyways, so its no surprise they comeout with a price drop that drastict meaning working on a brand new system is in the making Also M$ wasnt the 1st MMO videogame system it was Sega Dreamcast. I keep reading how people say M$ broke MMO videogame system barriers but "Say it Say it Sega!" was 1st. Thanks Dreamcast!
@ Least this price drop came down fasster than a Church womans panties!
WORLD WAR 3 WHERE IS CAPTAIN PRICE?
may he rest in peace
The final act of desperation. Microsoft better pray to all their gods the PS3 doesn't outsell them after this. Lowest 360 sku: $199 Lowest PS3 sku: $399
dont worry, it will
OK. PS3 has been out for about 2 years and has already seen a $100 price drop on both SKU's. Xbox 360 has been out about 3 years and only after this upcoming price drop will 360 have dropped $100 on both SKU's.
hey genius the ps3 was 600 bucks when it came out. dude. the 360 is 199 bucks. you don't think that's weak. 199 bucks? come on man.
It was obvious from the beginning that the Arcade would be $199.99. That was the entire reason for the hard drive less arcade version. With the 1st Xbox, MS was unable to match the $129.99 price tag of the PS2 and they blamed it mostly on the fact of the costly HDD. The answer to your question is NO. I could have told u this would happen years ago.
I thought PS3 was $600 20 months ago?. I guess I'm confused, PS3's price has been back and forth up and down. PS3 Sku's have been back and forth, up and down. 20gig-160gig-40gig-80gig-60gi g-80-gig-40gig ^^No real order which is my point, Sony's desperation has them running around like a confused chicken with it's head cut off. Sony's Xbox-like online services and features/functions are desperation. Using your logic: MSFT should never cut the price to prove they are not desperate?, even though the PS2 seen the same price point almost a year earlier. lol
I keep getting dissagree's... When MSFT starts removing features/hardware from the 360 to sell it cheaper and faster, we'll talk desperation. LOL PS3 dropped $200 in two years and ontop of that had more than one price drop in its first year in some fashion(drops and SKU swaps). Sony was so desperate they removed/cut functions/hardware from the consoles to compete lol. Funny we have Sony fanatics in here screaming DESPERATION!!!! when not all PS3's have the same hardware capabilities on the hardware level.
@ power of green "When MSFT starts removing features/hardware from the 360 to sell it cheaper and faster, we'll talk desperation." Uh, what exactly is the Arcade SKU? Isn't it an Xbox 360 with no hard drive that was released because it allowed them to sell it at a more attractive price point? The last time I checked, hard drives are hardware....
"When MSFT starts removing features/hardware from the 360 to sell it cheaper and faster, we'll talk desperation." no HDD means no movies(no netflix), music, demos are a b!tch...no HDMI ports means the highest display setting you can go on is 720p, even if you have a 1080p TV. And wired controllers always suck. Wait, arent they removing all these necessary features to sell it cheaper and faster? wow!
HUH?...The Arcade "had" more capabilities and is now currently downgraded? WTF? The Arcade is superior to what it use to be (core model). LOL I knew some PS3 fan(s) would twist what I was saying. Not talking about HDD's lol. Your flaws in your logic makes your comment desperate: 1)That is not the Hardware I was talking about as if being able to save content is not possible on the Arcade. 2)The whole point of my comment was based on having capabilities, then later on removing them, your child-like reasoning is flawed as the Arcade never came with the HDD in the past(or anyother stripppppped SYSTEM hardware). The Arcade was the core and now comes with a Mem-card and HDMI(up-grade). Anyways having an HDD or not depending on if you wan't to buy one or not, has little to do with different PS3's on the market not having the same functions/hardware capabilities(You can't upgrade the inferior PS3's to the superior ones lol). U B on ignor 4 that desperate attempt at the SDF tactic.
First off, dropping a price is not desperation. If that was the case, then what was the PS3 price drops called? Charity? The Arcade has ADDED features, not taken them away. It comes with a Wireless controller, 5 games, a memory card and HDMI. Everything you need to play every single game in the Xbox 360's library. Stop the FUD!!!! Xbox 360 will own this holiday. "Xbox 360™ Arcade Console Play together today with Xbox 360™ Arcade, including the Xbox 360 console, wireless controller, and memory unit for game saves. Have fun right out of the box with five Xbox LIVE® Arcade games including: * PAC-MAN Championship Edition™ * UNO® * Luxor 2 * Boom Boom Rocket * Feeding Frenzy™. "
Desperation ? That more like the ps3 the only system in history to ever cut its price by 200 dollars in less then a year. You can also tell that ps3 fanboys are really scared by the price cut by the amount of SDF going on in here.
My point was that the Xbox 360 Arcade (Core also) are systems that Microsoft did not include game-affecting features on in order to make the price more appealing. Why is it acceptable to introduce reduced feature consoles from the start in order to move systems, and not acceptable for Sony to remove features (ones which don't affect the performance of PS3 games) in order to do the same thing? Microsoft did it to get a head start, and Sony did it to catch up. Both did it for competitive reasons. They wanted to sell more than each other. The 20gig hard drive for the Xbox still runs around $100, while the 80gig PS3 with backwards compatibility cost $100 more than the 40gig PS3 as well... (not really even though, since an extra $100 gets you backwards compat. and 40 extra gigs as well) The Xbox 360 website clearly states that many 360 games perform better with a hard drive, and can't even play originial Xbox games (or some 360 games, for that matter) without it... Seriously, check out Microsoft's page for the 360 hard drive. At least PS3's all play games for that system at the same performance level. Maybe I should give kudos to Microsoft because their feature-light version so thoughtfully allows consumers to get their foot in the door so they can pay through the nose for the features that didn't come included. Sony cut some nice features to provide a more attractive price point. Microsoft cut corners on their hardware testing and sold "360 Lites" (or Core/Arcade/whatever) from the start to introduce their system sooner and sell more consoles. Honestly, Microsoft really has no reason to be in "desperation mode" right now, but Sony's efforts to move systems have been no more desperate than Microsoft's efforts to get their system out the door early and build up a lead, so let's keep things in perspective. Edit: Yes, congratulations to Microsoft for adding features to their 360 Core with the Arcade version. I'm sure they added those features to be nice, and not to sell more systems; the same way that Sony cut their price to be nice...
@Cacapoopooloco - "Why is it acceptable to introduce reduced feature consoles from the start in order to move systems, and not acceptable for Sony to remove features (ones which don't affect the performance of PS3 games) in order to do the same thing?" While I don't like the Arcade personally, it's a great system for households who only want to experience next gen games. If you don't need Live or video downloads, then the Arcade is the system to buy. I can go get Lost Odyssey, Gears of War 1 and Fable 2 and play them on a $199 system. That's pretty awesome if you ask me. The problem with Sony removing features is that they stated the PS3 would be 100% backward compatible and it isn't. By removing the BC hardware and then taking out the option all together, they've went back on their promises. There are too many households with PS2 libraries that were looking to sell their PS2 and upgrade to the PS3. That's all over now. They also said every game would be 1080p and 120fps. Nope. They said the next generation started when they say so. The next generation started when the 360 launched. The Xbox 360 will utterly crush the PS3 this holiday. Your arguments over the 360 not having wifi are hilarious. I have a PS3 and 360 and would never use the wifi option for gaming. That's just dumb. How can you get gigabit transfers over your LAN with wireless? Wifi is a feature that would only be needed if you had no other choice or didn't know how to run lan cables through your home. The 360 is still cheaper. You don't need HD movie playback on the 360 but if you must have it, get a Pro and watch HD downloads or buy an HD-DVD adapter and order movies off of Amazon and Ebay. The PS3 doesn't even come with a [email protected] HD cable. No component cables and no HDMI cables at all. ALL 360 come with component and some come with HDMI. Sony passes on extra cost to the consumer. You cannot play High Def games out of the box with a PS3 because there aren't cables that allow you too. The arcade comes with a component cable thank you! I can't wait to hear all the FUD this holiday from the PS3 fans after 360 destroys both the Wii and PS3 in holiday sales.
Ok, I will agree that $199 is a nice value for HD gaming. I will also agree that this really isn't a desperation move, and is a nice option for people who can't afford to have everything the PS3 (or even the Xbox Elite) offers. Being able to upgrade is nice, even if MS charges $100 for 20gb of storage, and won't give you a Blu-ray drive. I stand by my earlier arguments, though, as my main point was that Microsoft's early efforts to gain a big market share lead were as desperate as Sony's efforts to lower cost by removing their hardware backwards compatibility. So essentially non-reliability vs. non-backwards-compatibility... It doesn't matter, since both of those issues are fading into the past, and I think the Wii will take the holidays again... Oh, and I never made any specific reference to the Arcade's lack of wi-fi. I am seriously wondering where my argument about the Arcade's lack of wi-fi was in that post...
nice now i can buy one. I just hope Microsoft doesn't release their new xbox in a year or two.
there is a small (very small) possibility that MS would make the next xbox backwards compatable but yea, great price drop...i still need to get a second xbox360 so i dont have to argue with my bro on whos playing online anymore
The x720 is backward compatible, of course it is . . and it's due out either late '09 or early 2010 and will be fitted with the new Valhalla Unified GPU and CPU motherboard. The next 360 due out either later this year or first thing next year will come with the Jasper or Opus motherboards. Reducing production costs even further. The 360 is now in a positive position financially when it comes to production costs, whereas the PS3 is still hampered by the huge $US3.3 billion loss it is wearing. (Official budget position for last quarter by Sony) The x720 will play all current titles and will certainly cover all previous titles, it HAS to, as one of their new revenue streams is Xbox Originals . . which unless you've forgotten, is "lats-Gen" . .not "This-Gen" . "Next-Gen" is the x720 and the PS4, which btw Sony is busy making as we sit here pondering the arrival of the next xbox. The arrival of the next PS will not be far behind it. Yes, I hear you Sony fans saying, "but the ps3 has a 10 year "life span" . . News for you, so does the 360 btw! I know you Sony fans don't like to think that Sony would dare make a new machine already, but bad luck, they have been at it now for some time, and even hired staff in Germany to work on their next hardware iteration behind closed doors. But there's a huge difference between "life span" and development life span. The ps2 will eventually fade out, the PS3 will take its place, the PS4 will be the new kid on the block Same goes for the Xbox. The 1st-Gen Xbox was the initial stepping stone to get XboxLive up and running (they started working on the 360 in April of 2003, with ideas around it starting the month the 1st-Gen xbox launched in Nov 2002. The 360 will have a life span of 10 year approx, but be replaced in '09/'10 with the newer version. And for those whigning about how dare they, get over it, it's how technology works. No company, be it MS or Sony or Nintendo can sit on their laurels and wait 10 years before introducing a new item, they would go broke faster than a corner store. DO wake up and read things, you'll learn more.
If I were a console maker, I'd do exactly what sony is doing. Milking that last gen profit for all its worth to fund my next project. I think companies, even MS need to recoup their investment b4 starting a new project. For MS, that means recouping their losses on the first xbox project and this current one. They may be in the black again with this division, but I don't think they are anywhere near making a return on their investment. To come out with a new xbox as early as 09-10 would be illogical, and wouldn't necessarily endear the consumer to the xbox brand.
hmmm interesting... maybe the 360 can finally compete with the PS2... it barely comes close time and time again in beating it.. the 360 has put a lot of investment and may finally show the ps2 it means business and is here to stay... Then the next xbox will be at a better position to take on the ps3 at this rate... good for you microsoft, your learning
But who is going to buy their kid a 360 (oldest console on the market, and this year, the most unpopular console by far.), when they can buy their kid a brand new Nintendo Wii for $50 more. Rock Band and Guitar Hero used to be a reason for a PS3 or 360, but now the Wii will be getting those games as well. That leaves only demand, which both other consoles definitely have more of. Gears 2 will be huge, but since both Halo and Gears 1 have come and gone, I doubt anyone is really waiting for the $199 price to try those games out. The only game that can attact anyone at this point is Fable 2. Lol. And I doubt that will pull in more than 500,000 more people worldwide.
I really don't see why MS keeps making an arcade system, its useless, no HDD, no HDMI, wired controller....what is this, last gen?
Does the ps3 come with a headset, HDMI cable, and Rumble?
I can use any Bluetooth headset I already have for my phone, an HDMI cable is only about $10 if you get one at the right place(and the ELITE model is the ONLY one that comes with one), and yes, all ps3's come with rumble now. Do all 360's come with Wifi, a hard drive or an HD movie format?
.....dood, PS3 has had rumble in the box since June. Welcome to the party, I'm so sorry you're late.
Edited out, no need to comment, others beat me to it.
Doing my best Foxworthy voice: If your game system uses DVD as its Game format......You might be last gen.
I can use any laptop for the Wifi, an hard drive is only about $50 if you get one at the right place(and the ELITE model is the ONLY one that comes with a 120gb Hard drive), and yes, all xbox 360 are compatible with HD DVD add on. Do all ps3's come with 100% backward compatibility, or a 120gb Hard Drive? @juuken IDK, I don't have any homework and non of my friends are on Messenger I'm just bored -.-' @OSIRUSSS "If your game system uses DVD as its Game format......You might be last gen." LOL that was awesome 4 realz man. Bubbles 4 U Sir!
Shadowman, why do you try? I mean...why are you trying?
HDMI 1.2 is a joke. 1.3 is waaay more convenient and better over all. the older 360's didnt come with HDMI just as the ps3 didnt come with rumble, sixaxis is better anyways : ) and now ps3 has rumble and now 360 has a halfassed HDMI XD. "I can use any laptop for the Wifi"- you still have to buy the add on for the 360 fool! XD. "an hard drive is only about $50 if you get one at the right place"- you still have to buy the add-on fool! XD. what a 20GB used HD?? XD. good luck with the search. you must be one of the lucky few. "Do all ps3's come with 100% backward compatibility"- no do all 360's come with 100% backwards compatibility?- no so can you have a collection of the new movies coming out on HD-DVD?? does a 360 come with a wireless, rechargeable controller in all systems? 120gigs? wow, is that for all the DL'able movies you CANT keep? good use of the HD ms... XD. hmmm.. the 360 come with a built in internet browser? built in?? no? yup, sexy bluetooth headsets : ), can ya use those on your 360? does the 360 have analogue controllers??? pressure sensitive buttons? how bout sixaxis? the 360 come with that? a blu-ray player?? no? and yo man dont take it to the heart, i am board also and good news i start working tomorrow!!! money money money $$$ cha-ching! cha ching!
but the arcade, certainly in the UK, comes with HDMI and wireless pad. I'll give you the point on HDD though
sorry but you have to show me where i said anything about the arcade sku in UK. (if you ARE replying to ME)
"I really don't see why MS keeps making an arcade system, its useless, no HDD, no HDMI, wired controller....what is this, last gen? " Because for 199 Euro/Dollar you play the multiplatform games the same as on a 399 Euro/Dollar PS3, while in 99% of all the games the quality on the 360 is even better, you can still do savegames on the Memorycard, you still can go online and there are 90% of all families that still don't own a HDTV and game on a SDTV. May I also remind you that every PS3 only comes with a composite cable? Its just like this: 360 arcade + GTAIV = 260 Euro/Dollar PS3 + GTAIV = 460 Euro/Dollar 360 arcade + FFXIII = 260 Euro/Dollar PS3 + FFXIII = 460 Euro/Dollar 360 arcade + Fallout 3= 260 Euro/Dollar PS3 + Fallout 3 = 460 Euro/Dollar You get the picture? People that just want the game without all the extra's...
and those who dont care for live...or those who have their xbox broke on them keep the hardrive and buy the arcade