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Uncharted 4 Director Says They Had To Ask One 'Sexist Focus Tester' To Leave

Not everyone was happy with new Uncharted 4 characters like Nadine “Triceps” Ross. In fact, according to director Neil Druckmann, his team had to ask an angry focus tester to leave the room after he freaked out over the game’s portrayal of women.

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OtterX484d ago (Edited 482d ago )

Spoilers:

Seriously do not read past this point if you haven't finished UC4:

I like the idea having Nathan and Elena's daughter Cassie helm a future adventure, even if it's just DLC. (hopefully she's older by that time) :)

*sheesh, so many downvotes. I only brought it up bc the focus tester complained that giving Nathan & Elena a daughter was shoehorning another female character as part of a feminist agenda. Doesn't matter to me if their kid was a boy or girl, just happy to see someone who may carry on their legacy.

naruga484d ago (Edited 484d ago )

Sharkeesian idiotic influence is obvious at U4 ..if they really wanted to represent genders equal...they should have removed the "Women must not get hurt" stereotype and {SPOILERS SPOILERS}---->> made Nadine being a real unethical person at the end, like Rafe and has a similar end... though they made her repentant and semi-ethical person (classic stereotype for Afro-americans in holywood) in order to follow the abysmal and baseless critique of i-m-promoting -my-agenda Sharkeesian

OtterX484d ago

That's cool. What does that have to do with my comment though?

Nitrowolf2484d ago (Edited 484d ago )

It didn't have anything to do with your comment, his comment was originally posted below In now edited commwnt. I think he just wanted the attention being the second comment on the page :p

I don't understand what you're trying to get at with the whole they should have made her equal to the males, not stronger.

I don't get it with people if she gets hurt it's all of a sudden sexist, and if she doesn't get hurt now it's all of a sudden not considered equal?

Nadine as a person in the game was already pretty unethical because she ran shorelines, the biggest difference is that Rafe was clearly obsessed and even had mental issues, something she realized.

Also that tester is a moron. What difference would it have made if Nadine was a boy or a girl they would have still kicked Nathan Drake's ass. Why? Because they have years of experience in the military combat training, where with no disrespect to Nathan Drake he has years of Street brawling

DragonDDark484d ago

Anita is a dumb and pretty sexist herself but her analogy is not really that bad. What is wrong with thinking what if it was a girl?

This analogy even works in bad people like rapists etc... some people today think women are angels and do nothing wrong but some women get away with crimes like that because of her sex.

Aloy-Boyfriend484d ago

Bla bla bla

Shut up with this sexist diarrhea. So stupid... Nadinr was a bad ass mercenary. What's wrong with having a daughter now? Jesus christ!

Summons75484d ago

You couldn't be more wrong. Nadine was intelligent and knew when to call it quits unlike Rafe and Sam hence why she pointed out "look around, anyone obsessed with this treasure got what they deserved"

484d ago
Ashlen484d ago

Ya know, Ainta was annoying but her discussion spawned something even more annoying than she was. The whole group of people who now insist and even get offended anytime there is a character that isn't a straight white male. The people who insist anytime there is a female character or any kind of minority that the only possible reason they could have been put into the game was some sort of secret agenda. While I despise the censorship aspect of the current discussion I welcome diversity in gaming.

rainslacker484d ago (Edited 484d ago )

More spoilers

Her character was a bad guy. She wasn't repentant at the end. She left because she had nothing left to gain. She left the two of them to fight it out, and didn't care if they died. I feel she did what she thought was best for her. Isn't that what most feminist would want? As far as being stronger, she kicked both the Drake brothers asses at the same time. She just got sucker punched to knock her out.

UC always had Elena. She could always hold her own against anyone. She was the one that was always the more pragmatic sensible character of the group. It also had Marlowe, a tough as nails business woman who took what she wanted.

I don't feel the creators of UC are trying to represent any particular group, I just feel they want to create characters that relate to one another in some way, and in some cases they happen to be female, sometimes because they want more females, although, I will admit there was no particular reason for Nadine to be female, or black, but I don't know how much of that came down to representation, and how much was just them wanting to make her female and black. Honestly, she was hardly in the game, so she was pretty under utilized either way.

Drake himself is hesitant to hurt women. He didn't want to fight Nadine because of it. That doesn't make him sexist, it's just a personality trait that's shared by a lot of people, as many people of his age were raised with the "never hit a girl" mentality. Such a personality trait does not make the game sexist, nor the developers sexist.

As far as the daughter....really? It's sexist to make them have a daughter? We wouldn't see some stupid comment about how they had to make their offspring a son? There's just no winning the argument against people who want to find sexism in everything, as if everything is done with some sort of gender agenda attached.

DarXyde484d ago (Edited 484d ago )

SPOILERS AHEAD:

Repentant and semi ethical? No, not really. She was never like any of them. Her motivation for the treasure was to keep her mercenaries well funded (who betrayed her anyway, by the way). Vastly contrasts with (a) a guy trying to live out his childhood dream of finding the treasure, (b) said man's brother who wanted to help him, and (c) a greedy prick who just wanted to make history that didn't involve his inheritance (which was misguided anyway since he needed their inheritance to get as far as he did).

Nadine's character is not at all portrayed in a sexist way. You need to consider who she is. She's a South African leader of her own mercenary group and is an incredibly skilled combatant who none of the characters could beat on their own, much like Snake Eater's The Boss. Had she been the last boss, there's no way any of the Drake brothers could beat her, made worse by the fact that one of them was already incapacitated. She was in a prime position to rid herself of both nuisances. She chose not to, but that's hardly repentant or ethical. Odds are, they'd kill each other or one would kill the other, only to be burned alive. Bullets were not necessary and staying any longer would've put her own escape at risk.

She's simply not greedy and far more calculating than the others. I don't think you were paying attention to her character very closely. You obviously saw that she was fine with what they had and was ready to leave, but Rafe got greedy and wanted to go after Sam. If anything, she was teaching her employer a lesson by basically letting him burn. With no mercenaries loyal to her, why bother trying to collect a reward to share with them?

She was a consistently strong and calculating character and each one of them had their own strengths. Nadine's powerful character probably just draws attention because she's a woman, but that's erroneous: more than anything, you need to consider that she's from South Africa and LED mercenaries (not followed. But a part of. Led.). I'd venture to guess that she grew up during apartheid. She's not tough for no reason. It was all very well written in my opinion.

484d ago
Ashlen484d ago (Edited 484d ago )

@bruce755 Oh you mean a secret agenda?

When is it not forced in the view of "these people"? It seems that their perspective is that it's not possible for anyone to actually want to add a woman or a minority of their own free thought. The only possible reason is some sort of agenda. The only people who feel like it's forced are those who are offended. If people don't mind diversity then why are we having this discussion?

Dee_91484d ago (Edited 484d ago )

@Ashlen
I'm a huge critique of Anita, but I have been saying this since day 1, since the whole zoe quinn thing started. I have nothing against having more diverse and complex characters, but she and her elk shook the hornet's nest of idiots, by inserting this whole shaming aspect into it. I felt it was counterproductive, and sure enough, you have idiots like the guy mentioned in the article who are incapable of distinguishing the difference between propaganda and genuineness from the developer.
Extremist breed extremist.

yeahokwhatever484d ago

@nitrowolf
https://www.washingtonpost....
http://www.sandiegouniontri...
http://www.pressherald.com/...

So no, even combat-trained women typically cannot overpower a moderately fit male. In this game, Drake has by this time single handedly killed hundreds of foes throughout his adventures. He's also possessing the upper body strength to out-tarzan tazan. The focus tester may be sexist, but that doesn't mean he's wrong.

ChickeyCantor484d ago

> the whole group of people who now insist and even get offended anytime there is a character that isn't a straight white male.

Strawmaning so hard it's burning up. If you're talking about GG they are up for diversity, but not when it's driven by political means.

andrewsquall484d ago

@naruga Women must not get hurt? Did you see Elena at the end of Uncharted 2??? Also I got a few jabs in there on Nadine and I'm sure you would know that if you played the game too.

DragonKnight483d ago

Druckmann is a feminist and a friend of Anita Sarkeesian, but giving Nathan and Elena a daughter is not even worth talking about because it's a non-issue. The real problem is Nadine. They clearly were pandering with her character. Watch Gaming Sins' "Everything Wrong With Uncharted 4" video and he makes a good point.

Nathan went face to face with a trained fighter in prison, over 15 years of time he's fought a lot of people, he has a size advantage over Nadine. Yet in every encounter we're expected to believe that Nathan is outclassed by someone half his size as though he's never been in a fight and she's a super soldier?

Then there's the fact that Nadine is allowed to avoid your attacks but you can't do the same with hers. The fights against Nadine are scripted losses that are unrealistic and only serve the purpose of making a "strong black woman" character, and in that they did an awful job as it's clearly obvious that it is a pandering job. May as well call Nadine 2 different tropes in one. The Token Black trope and the Shoehorned In Strong Female Antagonist trope.

We won't be seeing those in Tropes vs. Women though.

483d ago
DragonKnight483d ago

@DarkXyde: Nadine inherited Shoreline from her father. That piece of information is an optional conversation between Nate and Elena. She didn't earn the right to lead Shoreline, her dad left it to her. Nadine is a token character, made to appear more badass than she actually should be, all for the sake of "diversity" and "inclusion."

Her entire army, which btw HAS to include more capable fighters than her and whom are ALL male (notice no female soldiers of any color because we can't kill women but it's ok to off every man in sight), was bested repeatedly by a ragtag bunch of adventurers. One with 15 years of experience killing hundreds, one with 15 years surviving prison. So these two guys are capable of killing seasoned professional soldiers, but can't cut it in hand to hand combat against their lesser experienced leader?

And you can't smell that B.S. from a mile away? Come on.

Ashlen483d ago (Edited 483d ago )

@DragonKnight

It's a video game, if the developers want they can have an unpunchable baby one shot Drake. Why are you even getting so up in arms? Because a woman can beat Drake? You claim to support diversity yet you're in every topic talking about how it's some sort of agenda that there is any kind of woman or minority in a game.

What's the big deal, why do you even care? Video games aren't reality, and it doesn't have to be an agenda for someone to put a strong character that isn't a straight white male in a game.

Edited to add:
And it was brought up that there are no female enemies to gun down and that it must be part of the agenda. But after thinking about it, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the reason for that is ratings boards. In the US the game is sold as Teen which it probably barely was able to get. If they added shooting women (right or wrong) it would have been harder to get that rating. I would wager that on top of that there would be countries that would object very strongly to Drake running around shooting and killing women to the point the game might not even be able to be sold there.

jb227483d ago

@naruga
"if they really wanted to represent genders equal...they should have removed the "Women must not get hurt" stereotype"

!Spoiler for UC4 &TLOU!

I'm sorry but did you even play the game or is your memory just fogged by your own agenda? Nadine got plenty hurt, she was slammed against walls, headbutted....Drake superman punched her through 2 floors into a free fall. Fairly certain all of that hurt. Ever played TLOU? Both of the female leads aside from Ellie were both killed by men.

Nadine was just as unethical as Rafe, she was willing to kill both Sam & Nate for her bottom line, she just wasn't willing to risk her own life & well being for it. Common sense stuff here. You are the one bending the narrative to fit your own paper thin argument. Nothing you said has any basis in reality. Are there some horrible feminists & gender equality goons out there? Sure, most likely as many of those as there are people with your own viewpoints. Neither of you are right.

ZombieGamerMan483d ago

You know Anita is scum and more sexist than any of the strawman boogymen she's created but if there is 1 positive thing that she has ever done in her life no matter how small was give game designers the idea to just write stronger women to prove her wrong. Still though at the end of the day she would still call Uncharted 4 sexist for having a woman be the bad guy. Really she would have an issue with every Nadine scene in the game because Nadine is beautiful, strong, independent, a mercenary and all around everything.

rainslacker483d ago

@Dragon

Nathan is more of a street fighter. He's not really what I'd consider a competent fighter. He's often clunky and fumbles around a lot. Nate is good against those who are also more street fighter types, but against a trained martial artist, they will likely beat them every time. A competent fighter, say a boxer, could probably outclass a trained martial artist by brute force and landing a good blow, but even then, it wouldn't be that easy.

Either way, I think you're over analyzing it. Nadine was an antagonist, and the story required her to beat Drake. She didn't beat Drake because she was female, or black. When the story required Nate to win the fight, he did. Nadine didn't need to be female or black, and maybe ND decided to make her female or black to try and represent, but does it really matter? Was her character lessened for being made female or black? I'd say her character was what it was, and it served it's purpose to the story. I didn't find her to be a compelling character, and likely could have been left out completely, but in no way am I seeing how her character can be considered sexist, her inclusion as sexist or racist, or why people are trying to find sexism or racism with the character at all.

UC3 had a male big brutish fighter, who was competent, and Nathan was pretty useless against him until he managed to get some cheap shots in, which he took advantage of. Nate never had that chance with Nadine because she was more skilled.

I just don't feel Nadine's character being female or black really had anything to do with her character. I understand why people may not be happy about them making her female or black just because it's seen as pandering, but ultimately, the character wasn't changed in any way that I'm aware of. I'm not against the inclusion of these things if they don't affect the character, and aren't done to make some sort of political statement, and nothing in UC4 gave me that vibe.

As far as some of the other comments, which you echo, about Drakes ability to fight, and how that isn't represented in the story, people do have to remember there is a certain level of suspension of disbelief which has to be applied to game play, and any story that is attached to it. It's not like it's new that something comes along within the story that defies what is shown in game play, and for the most part, people have come to accept it, because game play being too realistic often falls flat and isn't that fun.

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484d ago Replies(6)
TwoForce483d ago

@DragonKnight if you think Neil is friend with Anitia, then you need to think again. Every developers can get attacked by SJW. I will never like Anitia.

DragonKnight483d ago

Neil is the one who introduced Anita as she received an Ambassadorial award for her "work" in making games better. You will never see Anita or Neil talk bad about each other and Neil is a known feminist.

TwoForce483d ago

@DragonKnight Do you really think he agree with her ? Maybe. Hating feminist is true, but i'm not involved the conflict. Neil want to make a characters to be loveable , not gender. Can you be more specific ? If I don't want to hurt a woman even they are bad or good because people think I'm feminist. No, that not true at all. I will not punch a woman because it's my personality trait, but i can hurt their feeling and mind.

BLAKHOODe483d ago

I like the idea of the Drake legacy continuing with Cassie; with her mom and dad making cameo appearances. I kinda liken it to "Creed" being a continuation of Rocky Balboa's story, which you know, we'll likely eventually see Rocky's death in a future "Creed" movie. I can see that happening with Nathan Drake, as the franchise is passed down to Cassie. The only problem is she would be compared more to Lara Croft than Nathan Drake ever was.

solidsnake222483d ago

Do you realize you said not to read past the very last line in the article?

DragonKnight483d ago

@Ashlen: If it's just a video game, why is diversity needed then? Why is there a lack of diversity in killed women if reality doesn't matter? Seems like you're creating some red herrings here.

Diversity for its own sake will always be a bad idea because it will never have the passion put behind it that it requires to be any good. I'll take a Samus Aran or a Faith over a Nadine Ross any day. Hell, even what's her name from TLOU who led the Fireflies is a better example of diversity done well than Nadine is.

But do continue with your red herrings.

Sono421483d ago

Honestly I think the DLC should focus on the gap in the timeline WARNING SPOILERS AFTER THIS POINT

Thanks to Uncharted 4 we see Nathan and Sam run off together as kids.. but then the next thing we see (In Uncharted 3) Is Nate as a kid by himself when he meets sully (obviously older than he was when he ran away with Sam). What happened to Sam? Because next thing we see is Nate and Sam together again (adults at this point) in that prison twords the beginning of Uncharted 4. Now that is a pretty big gap and we have no idea how Sam and Nate get split up and how they get back together. This is what I would want the DLC to cover.

rainslacker483d ago (Edited 483d ago )

Sam said at the end of the first chapter that he was going to go away for a while, but he wanted to get his mom's stuff first, which was shown in a later chapter.

It was never specified where Sam was going, but he indicated it was to work. I don't know if he was going to be a thief or whatever.

Later, after Nate meets back up with Elena after being marooned, after the chapter where they get their moms book, Nate says that after that(assuming it was after Nate left the orphanage, met with Sully, and eventually back up with his brother, Nate said they swapped going to prison or ended up there at the same time, which would lead one to believe at some point they met with Rafe and started their hunt, which lead them to them all being in prison.

Sam also had some dialogue that he knew Sully, so it's safe to assume that Nate, Sam, and Sully all worked together at some point. Sam wasn't overly fond of Sully early in the game, or was at least indifferent to him, and it'd be interesting to see why.

Scatpants483d ago

Yeah they could have her do something like raid tombs or something.

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ninsigma484d ago (Edited 484d ago )

Wow that guy sounds like a complete tool. I mean, does it really matter?? It's not like was shoehorned, it works perfectly well within the story. Just sounds like being sexist out of principle to me.

spartanlemur484d ago (Edited 483d ago )

With the divisive climate feminists have created though, everyone is "taking a side". I wish this wasn't the case, but it is.

In an ideal world, we would get diverse content, with some strong female characters, some weak, some fully dressed, and some flaunting their assets. But this is not the world we live in today.

When devs at least acknowledge that there are non-feminists out there who like different things to feminists, and whose views are legitimate, and taken into consideration (instead of being treated like "misogynistic scum"), this whole thing will die down. But right now, most devs have jumped in with the feminists, and this alienates a massive proportion of their customer base.

484d ago
Eonjay483d ago

It doesn't have to be 'take a side'. Thats just bullshit to keep people divided. Make up your own mind.

Articuno76483d ago (Edited 483d ago )

TBH the methodology Naughty Dog is mentioning here is sounds exactly like shoehorning, albeit shoehorning that actually worked out okay. Although I'm making an assumption here.

You don't just take a character, then change an aspect about them if you can and run with it. A character is supposed to be thoroughly thought out and have a backstory that moulds them (even if that backstory doesn't make it into the game, the presence of it will lend the character believability/credibility because it informs their outlook).

If they changed a significant aspect of a character after they draw up all those specifics then that's just plain silly and the original design would have made for a more convincing character (this is the assumption I mentioned). If, however, they changed that aspect of the character early on in the characterisation process, it wouldn't matter because the character would have still been moulded in a cohesive way around those set aspects.

The question is, which is it? Going by the limited amount of screentime Nadine (or any of the new female characters for that matter) gets in Uncharted 4 it could be either. There simply hasn't been enough exposure for the audience to tell.

naruga484d ago (Edited 484d ago )

lame Neil Druckmann

nX484d ago

Have you ever read your own comments...?

DragonDDark484d ago (Edited 484d ago )

Spoilers

yelling things like “Not you too, Naughty Dog!” because they dared to make Nathan Drake have a daughter instead of a son.

ninsigma484d ago

Yeah that was pretty freaking dumb.

OB1Biker484d ago

Wtf? Haha
I loved it, I got a daughter myself.

yeahokwhatever484d ago

I personally think him having a son would've been more exciting because it would have made Elena even more worried when he grows and starts getting into trouble, and then Nate could live vicariously through his adventures. Now, Nate will be the protective one, and so they will have to overpower that by making her cartoonishly "badass", changing the feel of the game and not really being as emotionally connectable as the other way around. Unless they go with 2 worried parents which would be super annoying.

UltraNova484d ago

IMO its about creating a new 'Lara Croft' vibe for the Uncharted series. They said it would be the last but what they meant was it would be Nathan's last Uncharted. I will not be surprised if the Uncharted series gets rebooted with Drake's daughter at the helm, that way ND and Sony can hit two sparrows with one stone (continuing their cash cow IP and satisfying a certain part of the populous).

StifflerK484d ago

SPOILER ALERT - DON'T READ IF YOU HAVEN'T FINISHED UC4

I like Nadine, she's basically MayDay from A View to a Kill - except she lives at the end.
What I didn't like was the lack of control during those fights , compared to the one with Rafe at the end. The Nadine fights pretty much play out the same either way and that to me that just isn't fun.

It's sad to see people freak out over characters like Nadine, but to be fair we have plenty in the media already who freak out over a main character being white, male or straight. So , ya know....

I liked the epilogue with Cassie - although I'm skeptical if they do ever continue the series with her how they'l be able to differentiate it against Tomb Raider.
Personally I'd like to see them continue the series with Chloe and Cutter.

ameliabaz484d ago

I liked how the Nadine fights were all the same. She was a trained mercenary, while Drake is primarily an adventurer with basic melee/gun skills. So it makes sense that he would be outclassed in a one-on-one fight. It felt very realistic; like what an actual fight with a trained soldier would feel like.

StifflerK484d ago

I meant from a gameplay perspective - Nadine being stronger/winning is fine.
Like with the fight with Rafe you have some degree of control to counter/avoid the attacks, with Nadine you don't, it may as well have just been a cut-scene.
When you also consider it's a boss battle - with barely any interaction, it's an anti-climax.
It would've been more exciting to feel like you're part of the battle rather than just an observer.

Vegamyster484d ago

Nate has fought pirates, mercs, taken on huge brutes in 1v1 fist fights, been in bar & prison brawls so i wouldn't say his skills were basic lol.

484d ago
Godmars290484d ago

Only it sounds counter to how UC3 played. There Drake got into plenty of fights and fought on even ground against mercs.

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Articuno76483d ago

I thought they were setting up The Adventures of Sam and Sully at the end there. I just don't see how Cassie could become the kind of adventurer an Uncharted game needs without some huge life changing event thrust upon her, Tomb Raider 2013 style.

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