Nintendo is failing the core Wii gamer, regardless of what they say.

From WiiRinControl:
When Nintendo comes out and says: "Hey, we don't have any games for you right now because what you like takes time", it not only sounds like poor planning, but with the release of a crapload of casual games it's very frustrating. When on top of it all, they try to shove this gimped out Game Cube-esque Animal Crossing game down our throats as if that is what we've all been waiting for, anger and frustration are natural responses.

[CrippleH]

Right on Article.

[jtucker78]

Oops wrong reply...

[Voiceofreason]

What a difference a year can make. Last year it was constant complaining about lack of voice chat, the fact that Nintendo was releasing the same old games as always, and the lack of 3rd party support. This year those issues are fixed so it changes to lack of the some old game they were tired of last year, and a HDD. I will agree that Nintendo was not prepared for the popularity of the Wii, but to claim they have no supported the core gamers is a bit ludicrous. Metroid, Zelda,Mario and the different games he has, came to Wii in a shorter time frame than they did on N64 or GC. I'm sure one of the reason Mario Baseball got pushed out was so they could start on something more important. Great games do take time so I understand why they dont have anything other than Wario and AC coming from them this year.

[TruthbeTold]

I don't think you read the article.

The "voice chat" peripheral Nintendo is showing off, is just another gimpy "Not quite what we meant" situation. Not fixed.

As for the same games as always, there's no Nintendo fan problem with Mario and Zelda. As the article states, it's Nintendo's assumption that that's all complainers want that's part of the problem. People were excited about the Kid Icarus rumor that didn't pan out, not some new Mario game. This problem is definitely not fixed.

3rd party support is getting better, but we're still seeing half assed games, ports, and offshoots of popular franchises. Not fixed.

As for a HDD, if you can't at least see where people are coming from when they say that the console is severely lacking (since it has an old and new games download service and only a half gig of storage space) then your glasses are a little too rose colored.

It's not that Nintendo hasn't supported core gamers at all, and its not so much that they were unprepared for the Wii's success, it's that they are failing many core Wii gamers by being out of touch with what they want. Not to mention the demand for games, since by design, most Nintendo games are being built for quick, non-lasting experiences, and the desire for new games is greater than ever. People aren't asking for SMG2 or a new Zelda so much as they are asking for more quality games that last, and are worth playing often for extended periods.

[Voiceofreason]

Most of you claiming to own a Wii and be upset with its line up do not even own one. Just because they do not want to announce a game right now doesnt mean the game doesnt exist. Again if you really knew Nintendo like you and many other supporters for other consoles claimed you would already know this is how they are. See you are one of those people that nothing they ever do will be good enough for you. I am not saying Nintendo is perfect, just that nothing they ever do will be good enough. If what I am saying wasnt true then you guys should be able to acknowledge when they do sometihng right but you refuse to do so. VC isnt even out yet but you already KNOW its a gimmick how? SImply because Nintendo did it and you hate everything they do. It doesnt matter how many Sony loyal disagree the truth is obvious. The Wii could have launched with 3 times the power of PS3, AAA games for every day of the week and you and all the other haters would still be here hating on them. I mean here the article clearly states a lack of games from Nintendo but when I point out how it got games quicker than GC or N64 you come along and change the entire story so you are free to continue hating. I cannot stand the PS3. I tihnk its a waste of money and anyone that buys one is a complete moron for doing so(SOny even went out of their way to let people know they were stupid for buying it)but you wont see me crying on every PS3 article that comes out. Thats what people do when they truly have no interest in a product, they leave it alone. So why cant people do the same for Wii if they really dont like it? The only thing I can think of is insecure fans of other consoles just cant handle any product from Nintendo being popular, because those people arent real gamers. They are Sony casual gamers that think they are hardcore because they play games that contain blood. I'll never play AC but I wont sit and cry about it all day either. I have no interest in Pikman but again not going to cry all day over it. Hey if you really hate Nintendo sale the made up Wii you dont own and enjoy your other consoles games if any. I do agree with one thing you said. NIntendo fans have no problem with Mario or Zelda. Its the followers of other consoles that have issue with them and those are the same people crying now. Real Nintendo fans already knew this was coming. I knew when I bought my Wii last year that there were some bad times ahead. The only people who are acting like they are upset now are those with no experience with Nintendo. You really thought that they could push out every franchise they own with 18 months of the Wii's lifespan?

[ChickeyCantor]

" . I knew when I bought my Wii last year that there were some bad times ahead. "
In other words This is the way of Nintendo.
I agree, only people with little Nintendo expierence claim they do things differently.

[nieto]

"The only people who are acting like they are upset now are those with no experience with Nintendo."

This has to be the most stupid comment i have ever seen in n4g. I say this because you're talking seriously, this is not a comment from the open zone made for the sake of bash.

Did you forget about the nes or snes? most people here were in some time a Nintendo fanboys and were expecting a real comeback from Nintendo like the glorious days of the Nes or Snes but the Wii turned out like the same crap as the GameCube and N64 but worst. it has less core games and a lot but i mean a lot of crappy casual games.

Why people hate? well because of people like you and Sidar that dont understand that the Wii it's a piece of crap right now. $250 for a GameCube with motion controller? give me a break! soon even the X360 with more powerful hardware it's going to cost less.

Nintendo it's ripping you off with this console. My mom wants a Wii just for the Hype and all the news and people talking about it. The Wii has very few core games and almost all of them are more of the same and that masses are buying Wii's like crazy doesn't mean that it is good.

I was a nintendo Fanboy and i have every console almost every Zelda, Mario, Metroid games and when multiplat games were on GC or N64 i always brought the Nintendo versions. I been playing nintendo consoles all my life but they are too much of a let down now so i prefer sony instead. What about MS? first one sucked and the second has a failure rate too high for me take take the risk.

MS, Nintendo vs Sony

why is always like this? always putting MS and Nintendo together like if they were friends? Nintendo fanboys just hate on sony because they kicked their asses for two gen consecutive.

[ChickeyCantor]

" Nintendo fanboys just hate on sony because they kicked their asses for two gen consecutive.
"

And Sony fans hate Nintendo and Microsoft
And Microsoft fans hate Sony and Nintendo
And Nintendo fans hates Sony and Microsoft

If thats the reason why Nintendo fans hate Sony, then Sony fans hate them now because they are kicking ass with something that was not suppose to sell according to so many?

I'm getting a Ps3 but seriously if you think "sony" fans are innocent....get a reality check.

[TruthbeTold]

The "no games" argument from the context of the article (even though it wasn't worded that way) is that

1.Provision isn't being made for how much more popular games are now all of a sudden. People want MORE games.

and

2. The majority of Wii games aren't built with a combination of both long playing periods and replay value.

SMG and Zelda are great games, but even a year and nearly a year after beating each respective game thoroughly I still need more time before I want to play them again for more than a couple of minutes to check something or whatnot. Those are the types of games that have long playing periods on the system. But their replay value comes with time.

A game like Brawl or Mario Kart on the other hand is not a game that you can just sit down and play by yourself for 2 or 3 hours. Brawl might have been if the online worked, and Kart might have been if items didn't create such a sense of chaos watering down skill.

So no, I don't discount Nintendo's release of these games. I only point out that they are somewhat insufficient in fulfilling my needs as a gamer. I want to give Nintendo more of my money. I want more games from them. This isn't a bad thing. The bad thing is that they think that I want Animal Crossing, Wario, or they just don't care what I want.

So you can believe all you want that I'm no Nintendo fan, or try and tell me that I own some system that I don't, but it doesn't make it true, and it doesn't lessen my valid concerns. I understand that you may be satisfied, and that you feel that Nintendo is doing enough. But this is an age of gaming where people buy games rather than watch TV, or purchase cable. This is an age where gaming is many people's primary form of entertainment. How Nintendo has released games as compared to past consoles doesn't matter as much. Especially since so many of their games are lacking the desired type of replay value.

For the record, I stood in line for two hours at Target, and bought a Wii on Day one. I have over 20 games for it, including the Wii Fit peripheral, for which I'm still waiting for a real and decent game to be released for. And I have no intention of selling my Wii just because I've got beef with Nintendo's approach. I speak out when dissatisfied and hope for change, not abandon or sell out.

[BrotherNick]

LOL, I like both systems lol...They kind of complement each other. You get the new controls, plus our usual type games from the 360.

[orakga]

Had to be the longest whine I've heard in a long time.

"The only people who are acting like they are upset now are those with no experience with Nintendo."

Classic fanboy comment BTW (regardless of system).

[Zerodin]

Yeah, there's no zombie shooting games, or racing games, or Rpgs, or adventure games, OR first person shooters on the Wii!

[Voiceofreason]

Sarcasm or just a total lack of knowledge of the subject?

[ChickeyCantor]

No voice that was Sarcasm, Zerodin has nothing against Nintendo apparently XD

(no my comment was not sarcasm his was XD)

[ChickeyCantor]

The insulting ban?
Yes very N4G like.
Exactly the games are coming, and since consumers expect it NOW they start to get frustrated.

How the hell did my post got above yours?
WTF =?

[TruthbeTold]

I hear you, but one of the main ideas was that part of Nintendo's role as an Entertainment company is to help keep their customers entertained when they don't have anything eminent so that they don't feel thrown away. Since they have so much for the casual player right now, the least they could do is give an update on a game people are excited about, or clarify some things that are unclear. That costs them nothing, yet they don't do it. The negativity it is causing is proving that the quiet policy isn't working.

[InMyOpinion]

And still they are completely destroying the competition. They must be doing something right.

[titntin]

Well of course, yes they are!

Rather than developing many games for 'discerning' gamers, which is costly and very hit or miss, they are concentrating on a new demographic, one thats much easier to please. "Look I can do sums", "I'm losing weight with the program" and "Oh look, when I move my arm something moves" and "Look at how cute that it!"

Its brilliant marketing, clever and innovative software design, and I'm delighted for the company, and happy that the idea of a 'games' has been broadened.

But on a purely personnel and selfish level, I'm sad that Nintendo bring me far less of what I want than I've ever had from them in the past. They rarely cater to my tastes, and though I appreciate the casual market is miles larger than catering to someone like me, on a personnel level, I'm still saddened....

Its a bit like a hard hitting rock band that soften their sound and start writing pop songs. They are entertaining more people than ever, but as a former fan you can't help but wish for the old days!

[ChickeyCantor]

Titntit,

But "quality" games take time to make, and maybe thats why you don't see them coming along as fast as you want them to?
With their new policy to not show anything until they think the game is worth showing.

Third party's are shaping up too.
To bad They never took the Wii serious in the beginning. else we would have seen quality games from the start.

I really hope 2009 will be better, if not I'm just gonna wait for my traditional games. I'll own a Ps3 too so as long i have the first party titles i don't mind XD

[InMyOpinion]

"Its a bit like a hard hitting rock band that soften their sound and start writing pop songs."

I understand exactly what you are saying =) Nintendo is the Slipknot of the videogame industry.

[LossTheEarthbreaker]

However, I think he's a little too hard on the powerhouse that is Nintendo. He mentions how they didn't show a Monster Hunter trailer at E3, but we all know it's coming. I, personally, was disappointed with the press conference, but, after all, it's just an f'ing press conference. For the press. It doesn't change the fact that the games exist, regardless of whether the big N wants to talk about them.

Pikmin 3 will come, Monster Hunter 3 is sure to be great. Obouro Muramasa Youtoden looks interesting. Mad World looks like a lot of fun. The 2D Wario looks fun (I don't know why everyone is hating on this game) and refreshing. Deadly Creatures is very intriguing. The Conduit will fill a gap in the Wii's lineup to join Prime 3. The new version of Dead Rising will be fun for those who didn't catch it on 360 (I still have my copy). Dokapon Kingdom, Mushroom Men, Little King's Story, and Tales of Symphonia all look solid.

Tenchu IV and Fatal Frame IV could surprise a lot of people, too.

The third party support has gotten much stronger in the last two years. I look forward to at least a dozen titles on my Wii and there are at least 8 games (more depending on your tastes, but I think the 8 I list below before Mario Party appeal to any hardcore gamer - - other people would add Super Paper Mario, Boom Blox, Fire Emblem, etc.) worth owning on the system today. That's enough for me to hold onto it, especially knowing all the really promising titles on the horizon.

SMG
Zelda
Prime 3
No More Heroes (favorite game on the system)
RE4 (Wii version is the best version)
Okami (Wii version is the best version)

and if you have friends over to play games a lot

Rayman Raving Rabbids
Warioware: Smooth Moves
Mario Party 17 (haha, it's a high number of some sort now -- I prefer the two titles above this, also)

It's definitely a good time to have a Wii. I wish I didn't buy mine til recently :p, but that doesn't change the fact that there's going to be far more to play on the Wii than the 360 (Star Ocean 4, a pretty meh-looking Banjo, the PC-bound Fable 2 and Gears 2, and Halo Wars is pretty much all they've got).

However, if a new Killer Instinct comes out any time soon, I'd be in heaven for a while on 360. The d-pad will still blow ass though and I'll be wishing the whole time that it was released on PS3.

[TOSgamer]

When you put out a system with specs from 2001 and dumb-down controls it was obviously Nintendo's way of saying goodbye. It just took some of you longer to realize it.

[orakga]

QFT. And it's only going to get worse.

[Syronicus]

I did not buy a Wii because I am a hardcore gamer, I bought it because I have kids. Sorry, but the occasional "Mad World" game release is not going to convince me that the Wii has any intentions of aiding the hardcore gamers. It's a Wii, great for parties and wonderful for kids and not to mention the occasional Retirement Home...

[ChickeyCantor]

So Madworld is for the imaginary then?

[Voiceofreason]

There is someone who doesnt know the first thing about hardcore. Hardcore has nothing to do with blood and violence kid. Maybe if you learned that you would have a better understanding of gaming in general. I suggest bending over pulling your head out and gaming on more than one console for once in your life. you are trying to act like Madworld is the only game. Perfect example of somoene who doesnt own a Wii and knows nothing about it claiming to own one so they feel justified in trashing it.

[orakga]

You realize that EVERY person you're yelling at in this thread owns a Wii?

And you realize that you're sound like the biggest idiot ever to have lived? You're offending all the real gamers who actually know what they're talking about. Shut it up already.

[Product]

Another "Nintendo is screwing me" article.This is getting tiresome.

[nieto]

this is business, you cant never say the true to the consumer.

[Gr81]

I think this is misplaced anger here. Being mad at Nintendo for not releasing so called "core-games", yet Brawl was released what 6 months ago? Prime 3 a year ago, Galaxy 9 months ago. Nintendo has always been a company about quality. In fact the whole mantra sony is spitting now? (quality over quantity) was born during the n64's lifetime. If anything be pist at the third parties, Third Parties are the ones who are late to this party, not Nintendo. I've been satisfied with every major release from them thus far this gen. Prime 3 a masterpiece, brawl is awesome. Good games take time to make, when a company just churns out games one yr after release you get the madden series.
I've never seen a site so full of Nintendo b!tch!ng articles. And in the comment section its flooded with negativity for Wii. If that's the case, first off why buy one and second why b!tC# about it? I still have this nagging feeling that those claiming to own a dusty Wii or that Wii has no games, you guys probably don't have the system. Just sell it and be done with it b!tch!ng is for b!tche$.
Nintendo isn't a perfect company, no gaming company is perfect, but Nintendo must be doing something right, they are destroying the hd consoles year in and year out.
Sidar made a good point who abandoned who? Nintendo went the powerful hardware route 2 gens in a row and each gen less ppl bought the system. Anyone else notice HD games are shorter than games last gen or games like prime 3? You may say Nintendo games got easier but length wise they're still pretty long. Gears is a short campaign, mgs4 is a short compaign. A fan of videogames will fully understand what Wii is doing for gaming. The crash of the 80's shows history repeating itself. HD gaming was bleeding the industry, thats why many companies are in the red. NES was considered a fad, now its the staple for this industries salvation. We'll see if history will show Wii in the same light.

[poopface1]

the nes and snes games could be made after anything. Gaming was considered for little kids. ps1 changed this and nintendo tried to keep up with n64. Im glad they tried cause some of my favorite N64 games were goldeneye, turok and other bloody ones(even zelda had blood spraying at the end). Plus mario and zelda were as good as they possibly could be back then, something that isnt true today(in my opinion).

THe gamecube and wii were for little kids. Its obvious nintendo didnt want to compete with sony/microsoft. the wii is pretty much a gamecube with a motion controler for 250$.

also I dont have a wii, but thats why I dont want one.

[Enigma_2099]

.... they cater to the family, they complain that there's nothing for the hardcore... they try and cater to the hardcore, the family complains about the games on the system...

No matter what they do, there's just no pleasing you people...

[TruthbeTold]

The thing is, the "family" really has no real reason to complain about violent games. The rating system and parental controls pretty much take care of all of that. Core gamers on the other hand aren't having their needs met, and are playing second fiddle to Carnival games and the like.

[Enigma_2099]

TELL THEM TO STOP B*TCHING ABOUT MAD WORLD ON THE WII.

[lewis]

nintendo ruels!!

[Product]

@TruthBeTold
"I have over 20 games for it, including the Wii Fit peripheral..."
dam i only have 5 games lol(not including vc,wiiware)over 20...thats crazy.

btw Skate it looks very good with the balance board.

[TruthbeTold]

I'll probably check it out since it's an opportunity to try out the balance board. But I'm not a huge skate game fan. Hopefully the actual skating motions will make it exciting as opposed to using buttons.

[steveg2564]

but you can't please all of the people all of the time. The same people making their core games are making their casual games. I can sympathize with the core gamers argument, but third party publishers are just as guilty. The casual market was previously untapped and Nintendo would be foolish not to keep tapping it. It would be nice, however if they invested some of that money into more development of hardcore titles. In other words, be what they once were to all of us and expand in the casual market too.

I think the main complaint may be a result of Nintendo shifting their current human resources instead of adding to them. I fear that as long as they're making money, they'll continue operating this way.

I don't think you'll see core titles as often as in the past, but I also don't see them abandoning core titles either. It would be nice to see some quality third party titles come to the Wii as opposed to the load of shovelware that's out there now. Who knows? With the continued dominance in sales, that may change. One can only hope.

[IAm1Bearcat]

"Casual gamers weren't waiting at E3 for Nintendo Wii news. They weren't waiting to read about what reporters had to say about Nintendo's news at E3. It was the core gamer"

and for some reason Nintendo is leaving these people behind. maybe there are no more ideas for mario and zelda games? (not that zelda is any different after 195673 "different" games anyway). it seems like everyone at nintendo is waiting for someone else to make a game for the core gamer.

so they smile and say "in a little while" but when does that time clock finally run the f*ck out for them? i lost my patience and love of nintendo long ago, and im not sorry for it. i can at least respect sony and microsoft. and i understand this is a "business" but nintendo, while still making a profit, could be making so much more.

[TruthbeTold]

I'm far from giving up on them, but since we "hardcore" are more vocal, and still have a voice, then we need to use it. That's how I feel.

[adorie]

I still think the Wii isn't meant to be a hardcore gamer console. Besides, the company name itself has a meaning for a reason. Maybe you guys should suck it up? Leave the crying for the 'fanboys' as you say.

http://www.codepedia.com/1/...

[TruthbeTold]

The way I see it is that there are things that I would like changed that have no chance in hell of being changed unless I and others make those things known. I'm a customer who would like to spend more money on Nintendo's products. This is in no way a bad thing unless one doesn't own a Wii and fails to empathize because they are tired of hearing about it, or one does own a Wii and has become so defensive that they've begun to believe that the brown stuff on their nose is fragrant and desirable.

[adorie]

Ahh yes, the favorite word for the gaming franchise: customer. It's strange you actually admit that... (laugh?) See, I expect all other companies to regurgitate a plethora of gifts for your gaming pleasure. Who wouldn't want your money? But I think Nintendo is trying to create a new avenue, not specifically inclined for strict gaming. You should go grovel on Microsoft's doorstep, they're pumping out the all the products you can get your hands on.

Personally I believe in quality versus quantity.

[TruthbeTold]

I believe in quality over quantity as well. There is no reason why quality games that are geared toward people like me can't be created to meet the demand. People are buying more games these days. Personally, I'd rather play games than watch T.V. And I don't necessarily want to have to go "grovel" at some other companies doorstep. Your attitude seems to mirror Nintendo's. The thing is, I didn't jump ship on Nintendo like some did. I owned a 64 and a Game Cube, and I bought plenty of games. But now, Nintendo is growing out of touch with my needs as a gamer, so I'm pointing it out. There would have to be quite a bit more despair before I abandon them. Such an attitude is not going to solve problems.

[N4g_null]

@TruthbeTold you asked what people are playing when friends come over? Excite truck, smash bro, Sf2 and mario kart? R-type 3, ninja spirts, Sin and punishment on the VC right now. When they are gone I play BWii and metroid along with NMH. That was before playing paper, mario galaxy, and zelda. Those are all solid games there. I have a long list of VC games too. That is also not all my Wii games. Plus we keep getting new announcements for Wii games from *gasp* 3rd parties.

I have to ask what is missing for you as a gamer? What games do you want or need to come out? Yes there is shovel ware on all systems yet the HD ones just look better that's all. I mean it took for dead rising to come to the Wii for people to bash it. We all know the animation sucked then also. Yet you guys are ignoring the fact that the console maker does not decide what the 3rd party is to make.

In a around about way you guys are trying to say nintendo is the reason for all these casual games. No sing star, the PS2, that trash rolling game, FMV game play helped this come about.

All you guys are complaining because nintendo is not copying the other guys? Now that's crazy. Then you guys say your mad at nintendo because all they put out is the same stuff. If that's the case then you are mad at 80% of the development and publishing community also. I mean really what is MS coming out with? SONY biggest game is a level editor when they promised an OS.

It's funny but nintendo is just letting you guys tire out. You keep fighting a problem that is not there for most people. If you don't like certain games then you play some thing else. Gamers abandon nintendo a long time ago. Developers did the same. Now every one is mad that they are still alive. Your not going to kill nintendo with hate guys and it's cool you want nintendo to know they are not doing what you want but please spell it out or write them an email ok?

No one cares about voice chat and Wii speak is just fine. If a 3rd party make a head set I hope it bombs. Chatting during games is lame. It was lame in the arcade and it lame now too. Every thing about the Wii haters is like some arm chair madden player becoming a gamer suddenly. If you want the Wii to be a HD clone of your favorite system then you fail at being a true fan of gaming. Gaming is about hitting all markets on the console side. Some markets would cause you to sacrifice others. Casual and hardcore gaming have always done just fine together. We didn't need HD in the arcades when both casual games and hardcore where there?

But arcades died right? The price of gaming killed the hardcore games and lots of elite gamers came out of the wood work. Game makers from japan tried to compete with PC game makers on the hardware side and voodoo crush them. Every one got a PC. The same is going to happen at the end of this gen. The sequels are going to dry up. Then the game is going to reset.

I mean really don't be mad at nintendo because nintendo still does not control the industry they just make lots of money.

I still can not understand why nintendo should listen to some one claiming there are not enough games to play and then saying they are an old school nintendo fan. That makes no sense. I mean if you like them back in the day then they have not changed. So you don't like nintendo now because you have changed? Who fault is that? No better yet who's problem is that yours.

Any ways at least you can see that some 3rd parties are picking the ball up but this happens with every nintendo console. I remember a similar time on the SNES we got a lot of good games from nintendo then a drought then came F-zero and star fox for the first time. Yet I don't understand why you guy ignore the 3rd party games?

I mean if what you say is true about nintendo ignoring the hardcore then SONY and MS are doing no better. RARE is trash and halo is for FPS fans. Ummmmm SONY doesn't really have any thing I want to play right now well nothing I want to own I guess.

Maybe you guys are going at nintendo because your trying to show them they can not do it on their own? They already know this. That's why they green light so much and have the VC.

Why be mad at nintendo when they made it possible for madworld and NMH to come out?

[Product]

i honestly like the wiispeak better then a headset because...well its a headset.I think this is a better idea to voice chat imo.Especially when you consider that they will have backround noise cancellation in the peripheral,as stated.

I do think the wii is a hardcore gaming console if you ask me but when i say hardcore i dont mean blood guts and mature themed.Take Tiger Woods 09 would i get a ps3 or xbox version with analog controls or would i get the real deal with wii controls?the wii version obviously is more hardcore in that its more realistic in the way you use the wii remote as a club.Plus there is online,career,and wii exclusive modes for pick up and play.Thats a hardcore game to me,everything in that game shouts golfer...........and i think the wii have games that are hardcore in that sense if you think of hardcore as "made for the gamer" in this genre.Want the ultimate platformer get SMG.You want the ultimate fps controls get MP3.You want the ultimate party console get the wii.You want the ultimate blood and guts "hardcore"...your in the wrong neighborhood.

[adorie]

I stand corrected :)

[Product]

"The third party support has gotten much stronger in the last two years"
This my friend is what everyone needs to know,now you have companies admitting they were wrong not to back the wii from the start and its showing that things are turning around.

"However, if a new Killer Instinct comes out any time soon, I'd be in heaven for a while on 360"
I just want the first Killer Instinct on vc and i would be in heaven.....alright im getting greedy i would want KIgold for 64 also.Best fighter ever made IMO.(three way tie KI,Street Fighter,Samurai Showdown.)

[Mahr]

I'm not entirely certain why Nintendo's making apologies to the core gamer or whatever in the first place. I mean, the numbers don't really support it: Metroid Prime 3 sold less than either of its two predecessors, No More Heroes was a commercial failure, Boom Blox went pretty much ignored, Medal of Honor barely sold anything, and Brawl dropped off the charts after like three weeks. I suppose you could argue that none of them were hardcore enough for the hardcore gamer, but they were at least aimed at the hardcore gamer (and they flopped).

I mean, say what you will about the casual games and "shovelware" and how you don't like them -- you're entitled to that -- but regardless of your opinion of the casual gamers, they're actually.. y'know. Buying games. Demonstrating demand. The "core" crowd.... not so much.

Sure, you can argue that gaming is booming right now, but if anything, that's a result of the Wii's approach to the casuals. More people are playing games this generation because there's a system out that caters to a different audience -- one which didn't play games last generation.

I don't really understand how the article writer can say stuff like "If Nintendo had released just two good RPG's or so in the past two years on the Wii, and staggered the rest of the core games a little better, we wouldn't even be having this conversation because people would be satisfied" with a straight face. People would be satisfied? People ARE satisfied. Lots of people. People in general. People who aren't hardcore but outnumber the hardcore by a large factor nonetheless.

"If you think that what we want from you is Wario and the Animal Crossing..." Animal Crossing was one of the best selling and most critically-acclaimed/well-rece ived games on the Gamecube while Wario Land is one of the most popular franchises Nintendo has. It's your prerogative whether you like/want to play the games or not, of course, but they're coming out because they're games that people like and want to buy.

"Just as it is the core gamer who through his or her excitement and happiness about an upcoming game spreads the word, talks it up, and on a grass roots level builds sales for a company." I'm curious. Was it the core gamer that made the first Animal Crossing a success on the Gamecube and made Wario Land a success across several systems through his happiness and excitement about the games?

Strange that the core gamer would be so eager to build support for these games on a grass roots level, even though the thesis of the article is that Nintendo's crazy for thinking the core gamer has any interest in those two games.

Or maybe -- just maybe -- there are other kinds of gamers besides the hardcore! Some serious food for thought, there.

Anyway, so, uh, why should Nintendo really care what the core gamer thinks in the first place? Because they're posting articles on obscure internet websites and on a random comments page? Um. Okay.

Honestly, Nintendo would be wise to stop making hardcore games altogether.

[Gr81]

But Metroid Prime 3 sold better than Prime 2, also metroid games as a whole have never sold huge amounts, its a "hardcore game" if there ever was one. The games that haven't sold in the millions on Wii I have to ask would they fair any different on another console? Wii hasn't received the big budget third party game yet, and its still selling tons of software.
I've said it before I don't believe in Casual or Core, I think third parties use that excuse to shove $h!t on a platform and call it "casual." It is impossible to catergorize gamers or games without lines becoming blurry.

[Mahr]

"I've said it before I don't believe in Casual or Core, I think third parties use that excuse to shove $h!t on a platform and call it "casual."

I can respect that, but whether a game is good or not is purely subjective. If a game sells well, regardless of what you or I think, then *someone* is pleased with it. And it's more practical to measure sales numbers than it is to comb through thousands of webpages, look at all the comments, measure the number of agrees/disagrees/bubbles they have, and plug it into some kind of demographic algorithm of whatever.

Nintendo is, after all, a business. It's their priority first and foremost to make games that have good sales and increase their market share. Its secondary objective -- though by no means is this an obligation -- is to make games that lots of people consider to be good. The last thing it should be trying to do is make games that appeal only to a small demographic, particularly if that demographic has not done anything to demonstrate that they represent a high demand.

Because that's how Nintendo is (and should always be) measuring its products, and that's how it's determining what to base its business model on. A Capcom port does well? They're making another Capcom port. House of the Dead 2 and 3 does well? They're making another House of the Dead game. Rayman Raving Rabbids sells a ton? They make a sequel to it. The sequel sells a ton? Surprise, Raving Rabbids 3 is coming up. No More Heroes comes out, advertises itself as a game for the hardcore, has more replay value than most Nintendo games, gets a lot of critical acclaim, and has a launch event that something like 3 people attend. Mr. White talks about his "core" organization making games into big hits through grassroots support, but when it comes down to games marketed exclusively to that group, the game flops. This implies that the target audience is little more than dead weight.

Honestly, it's better for Nintendo if they ditch the "hardcore" audience completely. Especially if "hardcore" means someone who's only looking forward to Tales of Symphonia 2 and the Conduit. If Mr. White is as representative of the hardcore audience as he claims to be, then it means that the hardcore isn't aware of games like Mad World, Cursed Mountain, or that Overlord thing.

What's the point of having games like those at all if the people they're aimed at don't show any interest in them? Better to ditch those games entirely, save the money being put into their development, and avoid the anti-violence media blitzkrieg that Mad World's going to be at the center of when it comes out.

Also, ideally, they'd go the same route on games like Mario and Zelda that they're going on the various mini-game collections. Instead of wasting years and years of development time on their so-called "core games" (Twilight Princess, for instance ate up three years of development and then took another year to port to the Wii, while Mario 128 took seven years and one system to come out as Galaxy) they should be focusing more on smaller, less complex Mario and Zelda games. Cheaper to develop and they can come out with them a lot faster.

[WengYong]

Nintendo cares about core gamers when they have mums buying theyre kids a wii. Everyone I know who bought a Wii it was for their kids and not for them. I got my Wii from my bro who didnt want it. Nintendo thinks screw core gamers and make gaming more casual. Thanks Nintendo. Im trading my Wii in for a PS3.

[Product]

"i dont think nintendo cares about core gamers when you have mums buying theyre kids a wii"
Huge misconception.What age demographic are you in?Im in my mid 20's and all my friends and some people at my work all have wiis.Sorry but the ps3 and xbox to me have oversaturated the market with what people think "hardcore" is.Its turning into "i want pc games on my console."
Also funny because you have a Battletoads avatar which was Rares attempt to copy the success of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, and we all know how core the Turtles were back in the day.

[WengYong]

So what games do you and your friends get together and play ??? Comparing A core "TV" show to a game is dumb. Battletoads is one of the best Ol school games ever made. Anyone thats played it will agree. Never "played" a Ninja turtle game so silly comparison.

But hey bubbles to you

[Product]

No seriously,i wasnt being a douche,if you look up the inspiration for battletoads it came from the success of the ninja tutrles.rare stats that.Really look it up.btw you never played turtles in time for the snes?your missing out.

and bubbles back at you because battletoads is one of the greatest.Undeniably.

[N4g_null]

To tell you the truth I don't think nintendo cares about whiners that have solution in front of them but will not use those solutions because they are not good enough. I'm sure MS and SONY feel the same way about me and others. HD console gaming is not good enough when I have the PC here to do that job.

The storage thing could use some work but I glad they gave us the ability to store those games on our PC's HD. I would almost rather have a wireless storage solution where every thing comes off my PC rather than a harddrive to buy.

It's really weird how you guys are ok with paying for a harddrive on the HD systems that actually ups the price of the system like $100 then you say paying for the Wii is a ripe off. You can get about 500 gigs for that price now. Paying for online play. Paying more for your game than when they come out (with ports) on PC, which are actually better. Most of you are not even buying blu-ray movies. Then on top of that the Wii is the only console that has a robust backward compatibility. You get to play GC games along with retro games. Another thing is we all had emulator disk for the GC and they ran like trash if the Wii is not way more powerful then the GC how come the VC games run so well?

The only people I'm waiting to move on from the arm chair gamers and elite whiners are the 3rd parties. The question is why are all these people complaining about their Wii when they should have sold it by now? If you did sell it then why even post? Oh you want to stick it to a Wii owners huh? LOL look around they abandon the internet a while ago. It's to the point that their forums are shutting down hey your fans never went there in the first place LOL.

The internet became more about debating LOL rather than discussion. Posting on the internet is more about winning than understanding and flaming insults.

Gaming was about fun and it needs to get back to that because the cool factor is wearing off. Hey if the other guys did such a good job of doing what nintendo is not doing then how come they are not winning? The so called hardcore are doing more arguing than buying games it seems.